Cliff Avril checks in on where things went wrong

Makes me think of the 2 pt conversion in the crap show that was the Redskins game. Dude picked it off and almost ran it all the way back. Russ had to help make the tackle, way on the other end of the field.

Sgt. Largent":1185cu5c said:

As any soul crushing SB defeat would to any fan base.

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Yeah, I was thinking about it and I think the 9ers SB loss to the Ravens DEFINITELY broke the team, and probably the fanbase a little bit too.

I'm NOT ARGUING about which is worse, but for people who don't remember:

The Hawks were down by 4 on 2nd down at the 1 yard line with 26 seconds left.

The 9ers were down by 5 on 1st down at the 5 yard line with 2:00 left.

All in all they're both pretty crushing ways to lose.

mikeak":1khasbd7 said:

Sgt. Largent":1khasbd7 said:

Popeyejones":1khasbd7 said:

If that play broke the Seahawks team a little bit, do you think it also broke the Seahawks fanbase a little bit?

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Broke us? No, but as you see here, definitely fractured and put a big dent in the confidence we had in our team and coaches to keep the SB train rolling.

As any soul crushing SB defeat would to any fan base.

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Agree - it didn’t break us from loyalty to the team. It certainly made us a lot more critical of decisions that were being made / not made

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Oh yeah, sorry, I wasn't clear what I meant by "breaking." I didn't mean loyalty to the team as much as a meant that it was the catalyst that started creating long-term frustrations, more pronounced divisions and arguments in the fanbase, etc.

Seymour":23ahrsc9 said:

Nothing new here, just different player speaking out. Same thing Bennett and Sherman have been saying. Pete lost the team. We can no longer deny this, and IMO Pete knows this and that is why Earl is / was being shopped. I heard part of the interview on 950 yesterday (was actually the NFL network interview), so no blaming Field Gulls on speculation here.

On Wednesday, Avril reaffirmed what some other former Seahawks players have already said: that the second Super Bowl loss — rather than bring the team together because of how close they came to repeating as champions — started to tear the team apart. In talking to Dave Dameshak, Avril said players questioned Carroll’s belief in his own philosophy when the team chose to pass on the goal line against the New England Patriots rather than run:

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The relevant piece of what Avril said, first noting that he thinks the Seahawks would have won a third Super Bowl in the following two seasons if they had beaten the Pats: “I do think that the team would have bought in more to what Coach Carroll was saying instead of going the opposite way of — this is what we thought the foundation of the team was and that’s not what happened in that particular play. So I think guys started questioning him a little more — rather than following his lead if we had won the Super Bowl.”

“A lot of guys got turned off by the message.”

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https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/5/2...tioned-pete-carroll-following-super-bowl-play

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I have some problems with this line of thinking:

1) Players have to be responsible for their own action/reaction. If they weren't buying into Pete, that's on them. They should have talked to him about it instead of letting it fester.
2) They call was the call. They decided to question it, meaning they thought they were above the coaching staff and the team. They believed they knew better. OK, question it for while (they're human too), but at some point give it up already and move on. Back to point 1.
3) There were reasons for the call. Marshawn statistically was not doing well at the goal line that season. It's not automatic that he'd have gotten a TD, and to assume otherwise is illogical and more befitting fans/media than professional players in the NFL.

This all reeks of guys making excuses for their behavior.

Popeyejones":28kl969y said:

Sgt. Largent":28kl969y said:

As any soul crushing SB defeat would to any fan base.

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Yeah, I was thinking about it and I think the 9ers SB loss to the Ravens DEFINITELY broke the team, and probably the fanbase a little bit too.

I'm NOT ARGUING about which is worse, but for people who don't remember:

The Hawks were down by 4 on 2nd down at the 1 yard line with 26 seconds left.

The 9ers were down by 5 on 1st down at the 5 yard line with 2:00 left.

All in all they're both pretty crushing ways to lose.

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I can tell you this, if we didn't win the SB the year before and the Patriot's loss happened?............you'd have fans jumping off buildings.

Before SB 48, we would have believed anyone that told us we were a cursed franchise that was never going to win a SB in any of our lifetimes.

Don't get me wrong, the Patriot's loss still hurts. But only in the context of it could have led to a very rare football dynasty, which would have been amazing. But we got ours, and if SB 48 never happened? It might have spelled the end for many of us.

There are always going to be good sports and poor sports in every crowd. Some are good sports in both victory and defeat. Others are poor sports in both victory and defeat. Two player opposites that come to mind are Russell Wilson and Richard Sherman. Their contrasting histories clearly identify a polar opposite in their sense of sportsmanship.

Fans are another crowd where we witness the same division between good sportsmanship and poor sports. Personally, I have no empathy for poor sports regardless of how long they suffer. Poor sports suffer by their own free will.

Seymour":2094fv8c said:

HawkGA":2094fv8c said:

Firing Bevell would have fixed everything. Even if Pete didn't think it would be fair, something needed to be done. He couldn't rah-rah is way out of it and he should have known that.

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Disagree. That leaves Cable and our continued pathetic oline play, outdated scheme, and drafting and FA signings.

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Given how the subsequent years went, that is probably true. But ultimately Pete needed to show there would be responsibility for what happened. I don't really buy the "identity" argument so much as I think it was an issue of accountability.

HawkGA":yu5hu8qe said:

Seymour":yu5hu8qe said:

HawkGA":yu5hu8qe said:

Firing Bevell would have fixed everything. Even if Pete didn't think it would be fair, something needed to be done. He couldn't rah-rah is way out of it and he should have known that.

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Disagree. That leaves Cable and our continued pathetic oline play, outdated scheme, and drafting and FA signings.

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Given how the subsequent years went, that is probably true. But ultimately Pete needed to show there would be responsibility for what happened. I don't really buy the "identity" argument so much as I think it was an issue of accountability.

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Pete's stubborn, and he has a massive ego when it comes to adhering to his special brand of philosophy.

It's his greatest attribute, and sometimes his worst enemy. He forms feelings for his players and coaches, and that keeps him from being the cutthroat coach and decision maker we probably needed him to be after the Patriot's loss.

With his coaches and players, he should have cut ties a year or two earlier. Instead he hung on thinking he could fix the issues internally...............because he's Pete Carroll, and that's what Pete Carroll does. Until he doesn't.

He is right. All that tells me though, is the players that no longer believed or were no longer "buying in" should have been gone a long time ago!

The good news is I think Pete sees that he's no longer 45 years old with 20-30 years left to coach.

So I think that will sharpen his focus and sense of urgency to no longer put up with nonsense from his players, and under performance from his coaches. He literally has no time to mess around if he wants to win another SB before he retires (chosen or forced).

Sgt. Largent":3aed4ahj said:

I can tell you this, if we didn't win the SB the year before and the Patriot's loss happened?............you'd have fans jumping off buildings.

Before SB 48, we would have believed anyone that told us we were a cursed franchise that was never going to win a SB in any of our lifetimes.

Don't get me wrong, the Patriot's loss still hurts. But only in the context of it could have led to a very rare football dynasty, which would have been amazing. But we got ours, and if SB 48 never happened? It might have spelled the end for many of us.

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Yeah, that's a great point.

I think one of the things that probably kept the 9ers fanbase at least somewhat together after the Ravens loss was 9ers fans still had (and still have) those 80s and 90s Super Bowls to feel smug about. Not sure if that's true for fans who didn't live through that era, but for us older guys I think it's definitely true.

:2thumbs:

SpokaneHawks":1x7mxm4q said:

He is right. All that tells me though, is the players that no longer believed or were no longer "buying in" should have been gone a long time ago!

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This is a fair point but to me it goes both ways

With that massive problems it should have been realized the season after the super bowl loss.

That is when you either start moving away from the players or start moving away from the coaches.

To keep both for three years after that game was an indication that PC didn't appreciate the situation appropriately. I think the "forum" community has been all over how split the locker room has been between coaches and players. The fix could have started on either side but in the end we basically ended up cleaning out both coaches and players instead

How good would this team have been 2 years ago if they were a cohesive group?.........

mikeak":o2m20h6w said:

How good would this team have been 2 years ago if they were a cohesive group?.........

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But that's most of our points.

So you lost, so some of you think you should have ran the ball. So what?

You're still the most talented roster in the NFL, with the majority of the same players and coaches that pummeled the Broncos back to the Stone Age. Recommit to the "program," bust your asses, get pissed off again, get that chip back on your shoulder, get in the film room, re-focus and get back to kickin' ass.

All Avril is reinforcing is our players weren't as strong and committed to being Hawks as we thought the were. Some of them were mentally and emotionally weak. They got paid, got soft, became unfocused and negative................................................. and are now blaming their coach(es) for their failure to remain dominant.

It's sad really.

Jville":1okdn4k6 said:

There are always going to be good sports and poor sports in every crowd. Some are good sports in both victory and defeat. Others are poor sports in both victory and defeat. Two player opposites that come to mind are Russell Wilson and Richard Sherman. Their contrasting histories clearly identify a polar opposite in their sense of sportsmanship.

Fans are another crowd where we witness the same division between good sportsmanship and poor sports. Personally, I have no empathy for poor sports regardless of how long they suffer. Poor sports suffer by their own free will.

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I disagree. Sherman is not a poor sport by nature like Bennett. He is a good sport that loses control of his emotions and lets that get the best of him. When was the last time Bennett acted like this after a devastating loss?

mikeak":16nikl7z said:

SoulfishHawk":16nikl7z said:

What about the D giving up a 10 point 4th quarter lead? That had nothing to do with it? :lol:

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I am SO TIRED of this narrative

Seahawks offense LAST FOUR POSSESSIONS in the Super Bowl

Number of plays
4, 3, 3, 7

Time:
2.2, 2.07, 1.03 and 1.42

Result

Punt, Punt, Punt, Interception

The ONLY thing the offense accomplished on those four drives was putting a depleted defense back on the field time after time. The offense and specifically Bevell and PC gave the game away

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You are forgetting on one of those possessions one of the most blatent DPI that I have seen they didnt even call. Cant remember 100 percent the play but im pretty sure our WR got "tripped" and no flag was thrown otherwise the game probably ends right there

Glad to see the Seahawks get rid of all the mental midgets who couldn’t let 49 go. Embarrassing that those players couldn’t get over that loss.

Steve2222":21sxzaei said:

Glad to see the Seahawks get rid of all the mental midgets who couldn’t let 49 go. Embarrassing that those players couldn’t get over that loss.

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To be clear, I was not left with the impression Avril was one of those who could not let it go nor do I believe he let it effect his play. His stance was more that it was a real feeling by several players and he did not disagree with some points of those that felt that way.

In other words....I do not believe Cliff qualifies as a mental midget...but that does undoubtedly apply to a few at least.

SoulfishHawk":2pdqrfk4 said:

What about the D giving up a 10 point 4th quarter lead? That had nothing to do with it? :lol:

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Yep, they were injured, and Brady took advantage of that...Things got away from them, so that ONE play MASKS their mistakes leading up to it, their perception?...That play took them off the hook.
Someone other than them was to BLAME, someone on the Offensive side of the ball.

He wont be the last to speak up. Sorry but its true. The defense was all messed up and injured. We had a chance to win and got cute again. It was on Pete.

The play is going to be the curse of this team until every single person involved is gone. This should of been a 3 super bowl team.