Seahawks haven’t managed an opening drive TD in almost 2 yrs

olyfan63

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seahawkfreak":1hvaz5qk said:
Seahawk_Dan":1hvaz5qk said:
canucklehead":1hvaz5qk said:
Brings to mind Einsein's quote about the definition of insanity "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result"

Technically Einstein didn't say that, though the quote is still attributed to him. Regardless the meaning is still the same.
It was created by an author in some book written in, I think in 83', that used the term towards alcoholism. I have know idea how this saying has been attributed to Einstein.

That makes it more appropriate. Pete is addicted to a particular style of crappy offense that used to give him a buzz after two series, but the effects of repeated indulgence, building up tolerance, opponents figuring it out, now it takes a full six pack or even half case of series to feel the same buzz he used to get from just two series.
 

ojosdelgato

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Mike Lombardi said you know you have a bad offensive coordinator when there first 15 scripted plays don't work. It is the easiest part of the game for a coordinator. These are the plays you practice the most. You know how defenses are going to react to your formations based on how they have done in the past. You know the weaknesses of the defenses and where to attack. Our last 2 coordinators have been jokes. We just run plays and hope they work. Without any true idea on where we want to attack. You know this because after the game they always say what they should have done. We don't have any unique motion or formations to make these plays work better. For years the only thing we could do is playground football. It has gotten very tiring.
 

HansGruber

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seahawkfreak":cjf4wbbf said:
Seahawk_Dan":cjf4wbbf said:
canucklehead":cjf4wbbf said:
Brings to mind Einsein's quote about the definition of insanity "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result"

Technically Einstein didn't say that, though the quote is still attributed to him. Regardless the meaning is still the same.

It was created by an author in some book written in, I think in 83', that used the term towards alcoholism. I have know idea how this saying has been attributed to Einstein.


"Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results
Albert Einstein? Narcotics Anonymous? Max Nordau? George Bernard Shaw? George A. Kelly? Rita Mae Brown? John Larroquette? Jessie Potter? Werner Erhard?"

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/03/23/same/
 

JGreen79

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Seymour":qjkwm9em said:
I heard that the other day yet I could have sworn that we finally broke that pathetic record (an all time NFL record) around game 28 (total) last year? Not sure which game, but a swear it ended??

edit...hmmm could have been a TD kick return I thought ended it??

Tyler Lockett returned the first kickoff for a TD in week 17 last season.
 

ZagHawk

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I would like to see the percentage of opening drives for the Hawks that have gone 3 and out vs the NFL average.
 

TwistedHusky

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The length of this streak tells me something very clearly.



Scoring on offense is not important to Pete.

It clearly cannot be the primary goal or you would at least hit it, even a few times, just given the sample size.

It also shows the priority that Pete puts on offense itself.

It is actually weird given the value that Pete puts on emotional impact and perception of value. Since scoring early sets a tone, you would expect (hope?) that we would push for this. We not only do not seem to push for this, but we also seem to dismiss it.

This lines up with the beginning of the game is not important implied messaging throughout so much of his coaching though.
 

Sgt. Largent

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It's not all on Pete or the coordinator, IMO it's more about Russell.

For all that Russell is great at, and there's a lot...........unfortunately he's not a robot pocket passer like Brady or any other tall methodical pocket passer.

Russell is a tempo/rhythm/confidence building type of QB that needs to get into rhythm and tempo in order to get going.........and that's killed us for entire 1st quarters and halves.

How many times have you said "man Russell looks off" at the beginning of games? Like EVERY game? It's not until the end of the half or even into the 2nd half that Russell finally looks in rhythm.

I have no idea how to fix that, and obviously neither does Pete and his staff, cause it hasn't been fixed in Russell's entire career here.
 

mrt144

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Sgt. Largent":2igzyxms said:
It's not all on Pete or the coordinator, IMO it's more about Russell.

For all that Russell is great at, and there's a lot...........unfortunately he's not a robot pocket passer like Brady or any other tall methodical pocket passer.

Russell is a tempo/rhythm/confidence building type of QB that needs to get into rhythm and tempo in order to get going.........and that's killed us for entire 1st quarters and halves.

How many times have you said "man Russell looks off" at the beginning of games? Like EVERY game? It's not until the end of the half or even into the 2nd half that Russell finally looks in rhythm.

I have no idea how to fix that, and obviously neither does Pete and his staff, cause it hasn't been fixed in Russell's entire career here.

A way to attempt to fix (fix is even too strong of a word here, attempt to mitigate might be better) it isn't seemingly on the table by dogmatic adherence to a tactical philosophy and a diminished coaching input - yes, no huddle, but not hurry up (let the clock run, ezpz), audible heavy opening drives. This gets RW engaged and focused right off the bat and helps the offensive staff see how the teams react to that situation. Not allowing subs for the defense and locking them into the base package they can exploit with a handful of potential plays. It would also keep the defense guessing from the get go because at this point, most defenses are probably not expecting that out of the Hawks the first drive at all. And on subsequent drives they might try and prepare for seeing that again with a different base package that is open to exploit.

But hey, if the Hawks don't really practice this mode of offense, it's probably not going to approach a fix.

I think doing it this way would also be a morale boost to some extent for all the offensive players although (hey, we're actually playing with some fire rather than doing flaccid crap to get a 3 and out), I bet Pete would hate it working well because it would undermine what he thinks is the best way to win, despite you know, it seemingly not being such at this point.

I would love to see an offense operate on this principle of catching the defense in a specific personnel package and then just hammering the hell out of the weakness of that package until a busted down allows for a huddle again. But again, like I've said too many times - you don't practice that, it probably won't be great.
 

Scorpion05

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Sgt. Largent":1xb7xnus said:
It's not all on Pete or the coordinator, IMO it's more about Russell.

For all that Russell is great at, and there's a lot...........unfortunately he's not a robot pocket passer like Brady or any other tall methodical pocket passer.

Russell is a tempo/rhythm/confidence building type of QB that needs to get into rhythm and tempo in order to get going.........and that's killed us for entire 1st quarters and halves.

How many times have you said "man Russell looks off" at the beginning of games? Like EVERY game? It's not until the end of the half or even into the 2nd half that Russell finally looks in rhythm.

I have no idea how to fix that, and obviously neither does Pete and his staff, cause it hasn't been fixed in Russell's entire career here.


I respect your opinion but I find this totally hard to believe

IMO, to believe what you're saying, we would all have to believe that 31 other teams in the league, with Quarterbacks far worse than Russell can manage opening drives. It seems far more plausible that this is game plan and coaching/playcalling. After all, it's not like we've seen Russ with anyone other than Pete

Is it possible? Sure. But I'm willing to guess that if Russell played for another team we'd see a different story
 

Sgt. Largent

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Scorpion05":10rf5met said:
Sgt. Largent":10rf5met said:
It's not all on Pete or the coordinator, IMO it's more about Russell.

For all that Russell is great at, and there's a lot...........unfortunately he's not a robot pocket passer like Brady or any other tall methodical pocket passer.

Russell is a tempo/rhythm/confidence building type of QB that needs to get into rhythm and tempo in order to get going.........and that's killed us for entire 1st quarters and halves.

How many times have you said "man Russell looks off" at the beginning of games? Like EVERY game? It's not until the end of the half or even into the 2nd half that Russell finally looks in rhythm.

I have no idea how to fix that, and obviously neither does Pete and his staff, cause it hasn't been fixed in Russell's entire career here.


I respect your opinion but I find this totally hard to believe

IMO, to believe what you're saying, we would all have to believe that 31 other teams in the league, with Quarterbacks far worse than Russell can manage opening drives. It seems far more plausible that this is game plan and coaching/playcalling. After all, it's not like we've seen Russ with anyone other than Pete

Is it possible? Sure. But I'm willing to guess that if Russell played for another team we'd see a different story

You mean the other 20-25 teams with a revolving door of QB every year because they're going through the same inconsistently to downright awful QB play?

That's why there's only a handful of "elite" QB's that can deliver those opening drive TD's on a regular basis, everyone else is in the same boat we are. I'm trying to explain WHY we're in that boat.
 

hoxrox

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Start the game with a 4-minute offense. Include some read option. Some scripted plays. Spread the ball around. Anything but what they've been doing.
 

seahawkfreak

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Sometimes I think the coaching has regressed RW to TJack and the sad thing is, IMO, it is on purpose. Not the suckiness but the QB style.
 

OpHawk

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Sgt. Largent":ccjo5syp said:
Scorpion05":ccjo5syp said:
Sgt. Largent":ccjo5syp said:
It's not all on Pete or the coordinator, IMO it's more about Russell.

For all that Russell is great at, and there's a lot...........unfortunately he's not a robot pocket passer like Brady or any other tall methodical pocket passer.

Russell is a tempo/rhythm/confidence building type of QB that needs to get into rhythm and tempo in order to get going.........and that's killed us for entire 1st quarters and halves.

How many times have you said "man Russell looks off" at the beginning of games? Like EVERY game? It's not until the end of the half or even into the 2nd half that Russell finally looks in rhythm.

I have no idea how to fix that, and obviously neither does Pete and his staff, cause it hasn't been fixed in Russell's entire career here.


I respect your opinion but I find this totally hard to believe

IMO, to believe what you're saying, we would all have to believe that 31 other teams in the league, with Quarterbacks far worse than Russell can manage opening drives. It seems far more plausible that this is game plan and coaching/playcalling. After all, it's not like we've seen Russ with anyone other than Pete

Is it possible? Sure. But I'm willing to guess that if Russell played for another team we'd see a different story

You mean the other 20-25 teams with a revolving door of QB every year because they're going through the same inconsistently to downright awful QB play?

That's why there's only a handful of "elite" QB's that can deliver those opening drive TD's on a regular basis, everyone else is in the same boat we are. I'm trying to explain WHY we're in that boat.

Who else is in the same boat we are regarding the TD-less opening drive streak? Or more generally the impotent offensive start to games?
 

rcaido

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This is silly, you dont win in the first quarter. This is even more silly because Seahawks has the second best record since Wilson arrived.
 

rcaido

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Just to add more to this silliness, we actually had an opening drive td in 2017 against Falcons in the playoffs. Guess what we lost.

Also when we won our Superbowl in 2013 we only had 1 opening drive td.
 

Spin Doctor

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Sgt. Largent":uxbxyjfr said:
It's not all on Pete or the coordinator, IMO it's more about Russell.

For all that Russell is great at, and there's a lot...........unfortunately he's not a robot pocket passer like Brady or any other tall methodical pocket passer.

Russell is a tempo/rhythm/confidence building type of QB that needs to get into rhythm and tempo in order to get going.........and that's killed us for entire 1st quarters and halves.

How many times have you said "man Russell looks off" at the beginning of games? Like EVERY game? It's not until the end of the half or even into the 2nd half that Russell finally looks in rhythm.

I have no idea how to fix that, and obviously neither does Pete and his staff, cause it hasn't been fixed in Russell's entire career here.
Every Quarterback needs to get into a tempo, even Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers. Holmgren always talked about tempo, rhythm and its importance in Quarterback play/offensive production.

In Pete Carroll's offense there is no chance for the passer to get in a rhythm. As someone said here earlier, he skips the foreplay and goes for the big plays right off the bat. This leaves the Quarterback no chance to get in a proper rhythm or get a proper feel for the game.

Pete Carroll's offense makes no sense from a modern NFL prospective. It was an offensive ideology that died in the 80s. It makes sense, because this is when Carroll was learning how to coach. He grew up as a player, and then as a coach in these types of systems. My main gripe about this system is that you can run an offense that airs it out, but also can attack defense underneath. Good examples of this are the Shannahan father/son west coast system. There are modern iterations of the Air Coryell system that do this as well. Within the context of the Seahawks we run a more varied offense in the 4th quarter of games. More uptempo with a bigger variety of routes.

Carroll really needs to take his hands completely off of the offense and leave it in Schottenheimer's and Wilson's hands. Carroll is dragging his team down with his offensive philosophy.
 

NINEster

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Blame me.

I have a massive venting thread in the Shack posted that day when Seattle ran through the Niners defense like a hot knife through butter.
 

Sports Hernia

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ojosdelgato":23ptb85r said:
Mike Lombardi said you know you have a bad offensive coordinator when there first 15 scripted plays don't work. It is the easiest part of the game for a coordinator. These are the plays you practice the most. You know how defenses are going to react to your formations based on how they have done in the past. You know the weaknesses of the defenses and where to attack. Our last 2 coordinators have been jokes. We just run plays and hope they work. Without any true idea on where we want to attack. You know this because after the game they always say what they should have done. We don't have any unique motion or formations to make these plays work better. For years the only thing we could do is playground football. It has gotten very tiring.
So true.
 
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