All 22 look at an option play against Dallas

Recon_Hawk · Nov 4, 2015

1st and 10 - 2nd play of the game

Dallas is in their nickel defense and decide to match up their 3 defensive backs on Seattle's trips WR set. The outside corner on the other side has to respect Russell on the read option making it Dallas' front 6 against Seattle's 6. It's an easy run call. With Marshawn and decent push from the Oline this play gets you a 3-5 yards almost every time. Also, you'll notice the WRs looking for a screen pass.

3rd and 3 - Later in the same drive

Seattle shows the same personnel and formation as earlier. Dallas goes with its base defense and puts the 3rd linebacker in the box because they have to respect the run and knowing that Seattle picked up 4 yards earlier running out of this look.

It's the same play call both times. Tt just depends on how the defense plays it and then it's up to Russell to make the decision to throw the screen or give it to Lynch. It's not uncommon to see an option run/pass play like this, but I think it's cool to see it executed well.

An optional audible pass play I would like to see

When you are inside the 10 yard line and get Jimmy Graham 1 on 1 with the DB, I would love that be an automatic fade route call here. I know Russell likes to get the ball into that hands of Marshawn, but Jimmy is your next best threat on offense and he's got a match up I think he can win. The Cowboys have 8 men in the box planning on the run so react and attack through the air.

Scottemojo · Nov 4, 2015

That last one is the kind of stuff I was talking about. 8 in the box, 6 blockers. Graham one on one.

The offense has little dexterity it would seem at taking clear advantage of a favorable personnel group.

Cartire · Nov 4, 2015

First thing I said to my wife at the start of the game,

"Russell will not keep the ball ONCE in the first half on Read-options. He does this because he wants to get the defense to commit to Marshawn for the majority of the game. The problem is, every single team knows this already. BECAUSE RUSSELL NEVER KEEPS THE BALL ON READ-OPTIONS IN THE FIRST HALF, EVER!"

Yea, the Corner played tentatively towards RW, but that was an easy beat if Russell kept it. The corner would not have been able to change direction fast enough with the speed he had coming in.

mrt144 · Nov 4, 2015

Cartire":11jipr7v said:
First thing I said to my wife at the start of the game,

"Russell will not keep the ball ONCE in the first half on Read-options. He does this because he wants to get the defense to commit to Marshawn for the majority of the game. The problem is, every single team knows this already. BECAUSE RUSSELL NEVER KEEPS THE BALL ON READ-OPTIONS IN THE FIRST HALF, EVER!"

Yea, the Corner played tentatively towards RW, but that was an easy beat if Russell kept it. The corner would not have been able to change direction fast enough with the speed he had coming in.

And while everyone can understand the premise, it's hard to see us establishing a premise to set up plays later in the game while not doing especially well in converting drives in the here and now.

Watch, RW will keep a read option at some point in the first half and everyone will think it's the tits after a 20 yard gain or so but it'll be like "You didn't have to wait this long to 'fool' anyone"

Anthony! · Nov 4, 2015

You do realize that just because it looks like it is a RO does not mean it is. PC and DB have both said a lot of RO looking plays are really RB handoffs with no option. Not saying all but a lot.

Cartire · Nov 4, 2015

Anthony!":30tmfjhc said:
You do realize that just because it looks like it is a RO does not mean it is. PC and DB have both said a lot of RO looking plays are really RB handoffs with no option. Not saying all but a lot.

That was a RO. Now, if your telling me you want to put the blame on the coaches for telling RW to hand it off no matter what. Thats fine. But the play was a RO. If RW keeps it there, its a first down.

You can blame who ever you want for not letting RW run. Either himself, or the coaches. But the play was a RO. And RW should have kept it.

HawkGA · Nov 4, 2015

Nice write ups to go along with the gifs. Laloosh is dead to me now! :stirthepot:

Smellyman · Nov 4, 2015

Cartire":rn6qosmq said:
Anthony!":rn6qosmq said:

You do realize that just because it looks like it is a RO does not mean it is. PC and DB have both said a lot of RO looking plays are really RB handoffs with no option. Not saying all but a lot.

Click to expand...

That was a RO. Now, if your telling me you want to put the blame on the coaches for telling RW to hand it off no matter what. Thats fine. But the play was a RO. If RW keeps it there, its a first down.

You can blame who ever you want for not letting RW run. Either himself, or the coaches. But the play was a RO. And RW should have kept it.

Again, yes it is supposed to look exactly like a RO, but often the play is to always had it off. So in reallity there is sometimes no read and no option

Russ Willstrong · Nov 4, 2015

mrt144":3bcxsw8g said:
Cartire":3bcxsw8g said:

First thing I said to my wife at the start of the game,

"Russell will not keep the ball ONCE in the first half on Read-options. He does this because he wants to get the defense to commit to Marshawn for the majority of the game. The problem is, every single team knows this already. BECAUSE RUSSELL NEVER KEEPS THE BALL ON READ-OPTIONS IN THE FIRST HALF, EVER!"

Yea, the Corner played tentatively towards RW, but that was an easy beat if Russell kept it. The corner would not have been able to change direction fast enough with the speed he had coming in.

Click to expand...

And while everyone can understand the premise, it's hard to see us establishing a premise to set up plays later in the game while not doing especially well in converting drives in the here and now.

Watch, RW will keep a read option at some point in the first half and everyone will think it's the tits after a 20 yard gain or so but it'll be like "You didn't have to wait this long to 'fool' anyone"

The read option doesnt necessarily rely on qb keepers to be effective. Vertical passes can come from read option plays keeping defenses guessing and making subsequent runs more effective. Carolina and Vikings are two teams that have been using the Read Option vertical pass to quickly hit their TE on the seam route from a running formation. They do this with more tempo then we do and to good success. A faster tempo is important as it keeps the defense on their heels. Another difference in execution is that Bridgewater and Newton rides the handoff longer than Wilson which sells the fake better allowing his TE to get down field.
The one time we run it in this game we score a 20 yd TD to Luke Willson.
Im surprised it took this long for Bevell to incorporate these plays into his playbook when other teams have been running it to good effect.
IMO This is why Bevell is such an average play caller.

mrt144 · Nov 4, 2015

Smellyman":3hzukm5z said:
Cartire":3hzukm5z said:

Anthony!":3hzukm5z said:

You do realize that just because it looks like it is a RO does not mean it is. PC and DB have both said a lot of RO looking plays are really RB handoffs with no option. Not saying all but a lot.

Click to expand...

That was a RO. Now, if your telling me you want to put the blame on the coaches for telling RW to hand it off no matter what. Thats fine. But the play was a RO. If RW keeps it there, its a first down.

You can blame who ever you want for not letting RW run. Either himself, or the coaches. But the play was a RO. And RW should have kept it.

Click to expand...

Again, yes it is supposed to look exactly like a RO, but often the play is to always had it off. So in reallity there is sometimes no read and no option

A Cigar is just a Cigar!

Cartire · Nov 4, 2015

Smellyman":1yax8lae said:
Cartire":1yax8lae said:

Anthony!":1yax8lae said:

You do realize that just because it looks like it is a RO does not mean it is. PC and DB have both said a lot of RO looking plays are really RB handoffs with no option. Not saying all but a lot.

Click to expand...

That was a RO. Now, if your telling me you want to put the blame on the coaches for telling RW to hand it off no matter what. Thats fine. But the play was a RO. If RW keeps it there, its a first down.

You can blame who ever you want for not letting RW run. Either himself, or the coaches. But the play was a RO. And RW should have kept it.

Click to expand...

Again, yes it is supposed to look exactly like a RO, but often the play is to always had it off. So in reallity there is sometimes no read and no option

There are 9 guys on that play that have the exact same assignment no matter what. For them, its the same play. They can add to the play design with another vernacular if they want. But thats just a signal to hand it off no matter what. Russell calls out assignments in the play the same, but may add the verbage.

For an example (im making up all names), "339 banana R-Keep on 1"

-339 would refer to the 3 Receivers in the formation, XYZ. X and Y block (3) and Z steps back for the pass (9).
-Banana would be RO in this formation. This tells each person on the line the current formation (some teams may add the formation into the play-call separately) and what the play is.
-R-Keep would signal that Lynch keeps it no matter what.

There is no reason AT ALL to have another play for the team to remember. They wouldn't run an APPLE in lieu of BANANA just because Lynch is keeping it. You want your players (especially lineman) to just do their assignment. If its the same no matter what, you keep it that way.

You could argue semantics that the R-Keep makes it a new play. I dont care for the argument, but if you wanted to cling to the idea, you can.

Russ Willstrong · Nov 4, 2015

Recon_Hawk":utu76sxr said:
1st and 10 - 2nd play of the game

Dallas is in their nickel defense and decide to match up their 3 defensive backs on Seattle's trips WR set. The outside corner on the other side has to respect Russell on the read option making it Dallas' front 6 against Seattle's 6. It's an easy run call. With Marshawn and decent push from the Oline this play gets you a 3-5 yards almost every time. Also, you'll notice the WRs looking for a screen pass.

3rd and 3 - Later in the same drive

Seattle shows the same personnel and formation as earlier. Dallas goes with its base defense and puts the 3rd linebacker in the box because they have to respect the run and knowing that Seattle picked up 4 yards earlier running out of this look.

It's the same play call both times. Tt just depends on how the defense plays it and then it's up to Russell to make the decision to throw the screen or give it to Lynch. It's not uncommon to see an option run/pass play like this, but I think it's cool to see it executed well.

An optional audible pass play I would like to see

When you are inside the 10 yard line and get Jimmy Graham 1 on 1 with the DB, I would love that be an automatic fade route call here. I know Russell likes to get the ball into that hands of Marshawn, but Jimmy is your next best threat on offense and he's got a match up I think he can win. The Cowboys have 8 men in the box planning on the run so react and attack through the air.

Do you have the Luke Willson touchdown in this game of the read option pass?

Laloosh · Nov 4, 2015

I love this. Thanks for taking the time, Recon.

HawkGA":148fkc33 said:
Nice write ups to go along with the gifs. Laloosh is dead to me now! :stirthepot:

:thirishdrinkers:

Smellyman · Nov 4, 2015

Cartire":2mekkch3 said:
Smellyman":2mekkch3 said:

Cartire":2mekkch3 said:

Anthony!":2mekkch3 said:

You do realize that just because it looks like it is a RO does not mean it is. PC and DB have both said a lot of RO looking plays are really RB handoffs with no option. Not saying all but a lot.

Click to expand...

That was a RO. Now, if your telling me you want to put the blame on the coaches for telling RW to hand it off no matter what. Thats fine. But the play was a RO. If RW keeps it there, its a first down.

You can blame who ever you want for not letting RW run. Either himself, or the coaches. But the play was a RO. And RW should have kept it.

Click to expand...

Again, yes it is supposed to look exactly like a RO, but often the play is to always had it off. So in reallity there is sometimes no read and no option

Click to expand...

There are 9 guys on that play that have the exact same assignment no matter what. For them, its the same play. They can add to the play design with another vernacular if they want. But thats just a signal to hand it off no matter what. Russell calls out assignments in the play the same, but may add the verbage.

For an example (im making up all names), "339 banana R-Keep on 1"

-339 would refer to the 3 Receivers in the formation, XYZ. X and Y block (3) and Z steps back for the pass (9).
-Banana would be RO in this formation. This tells each person on the line the current formation (some teams may add the formation into the play-call separately) and what the play is.
-R-Keep would signal that Lynch keeps it no matter what.

There is no reason AT ALL to have another play for the team to remember. They wouldn't run an APPLE in lieu of BANANA just because Lynch is keeping it. You want your players (especially lineman) to just do their assignment. If its the same no matter what, you keep it that way.

You could argue semantics that the R-Keep makes it a new play. I dont care for the argument, but if you wanted to cling to the idea, you can.

way to keep missing the point

Cartire · Nov 4, 2015

Smellyman":38rro7pp said:
way to keep missing the point

No. I don't. At all.

My point had nothing to do with the play called FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.

I said that RW should keep it there. I said THAT IT DIDNT MATTER IF IT WAS RW'S FAULT OR BEVELLS for having him keep it.

But instead, you guys looking for RW excuses so fast, you got in a debate about which play was called, instead of the fact that RW never keeps the ball in the first half. That was the point.

Recon_Hawk · Nov 4, 2015

Russ Willstrong":zhf7yxtt said:
Do you have the Luke Willson touchdown in this game of the read option pass?

Here you go:

I love Sweezy crossing the formation to block the left edge. Its really interesting blocking scheme. I've seen Seattle run it before but this looked blocked much cleaner. Hopefully a sign of the Oline growing.

Recon_Hawk · Nov 4, 2015

Smellyman":2l5i1per said:
Cartire":2l5i1per said:

Anthony!":2l5i1per said:

You do realize that just because it looks like it is a RO does not mean it is. PC and DB have both said a lot of RO looking plays are really RB handoffs with no option. Not saying all but a lot.

Click to expand...

That was a RO. Now, if your telling me you want to put the blame on the coaches for telling RW to hand it off no matter what. Thats fine. But the play was a RO. If RW keeps it there, its a first down.

You can blame who ever you want for not letting RW run. Either himself, or the coaches. But the play was a RO. And RW should have kept it.

Click to expand...

Again, yes it is supposed to look exactly like a RO, but often the play is to always had it off. So in reallity there is sometimes no read and no option

This is true. Pete and Bevell have said some of the read option plays are really just calls to hand the ball off to Lynch which makes it tough to say if Russell has an option to keep it here.

However, If I had to guess, I do think it is a RO play that Russell had the option to keep if only for the reason that there's no reason to get cute down inside the red zone by calling a play that takes a dangerous runner like Russell out of it. You call the designated hand off to Lynch early in the game at your own 20 yard line when you are trying to establish a hard-nose run game. Not when you are in scoring positions at the 10. Again, just a guess.

The thing I would point out is that even if it is a run call, Russell should have the ability to call an audible here to take advantage of Jimmy 1-on-1 on the outside. Now, it's a tough decision any time you change the call away from your star RB and put it into your own hands which is why I'd like to see that become an automatic call. It takes the pressure off of Russell to make sure Lynch gets his chances in the redzone and puts the decision on the coaches. That way if it doesn't work Lynch gets upset at Bevell and not Wilson.

McG · Nov 4, 2015

Breaking down tape must be so disheartening for RW. The fact that you, I and everyone can break this down with ease makes you wonder who/what is holding the offense back. Well, we all probably know who is holding the offense back, but I'm sick of blaming him. I guess the point I'm trying to make is, it's so incredibly obvious how those plays could have been tweaked or adjusted either at the line or during the game that it makes me wonder what in the world is going on. We have a $22 million quarterback on this team, with three years of experience. When are we going to take the training wheels off?

Oh well, we will just sit here and wait. Hopefully, this team will take this bye week to regroup, recharge and realize that the game vs Arizona is going to sent the tone for the rest of the season. Time to bring their A game, time to win.

Smellyman · Nov 4, 2015

McG":bcqyhuif said:
Breaking down tape must be so disheartening for RW. The fact that you, I and everyone can break this down with ease makes you wonder who/what is holding the offense back. Well, we all probably know who is holding the offense back, but I'm sick of blaming him. I guess the point I'm trying to make is, it's so incredibly obvious how those plays could have been tweaked or adjusted either at the line or during the game that it makes me wonder what in the world is going on. We have a $22 million quarterback on this team, with three years of experience. When are we going to take the training wheels off?

Oh well, we will just sit here and wait. Hopefully, this team will take this bye week to regroup, recharge and realize that the game vs Arizona is going to sent the tone for the rest of the season. Time to bring their A game, time to win.

Cartire · Nov 4, 2015

McG":209mn0as said:
Breaking down tape must be so disheartening for RW. The fact that you, I and everyone can break this down with ease makes you wonder who/what is holding the offense back. Well, we all probably know who is holding the offense back, but I'm sick of blaming him. I guess the point I'm trying to make is, it's so incredibly obvious how those plays could have been tweaked or adjusted either at the line or during the game that it makes me wonder what in the world is going on. We have a $22 million quarterback on this team, with three years of experience. When are we going to take the training wheels off?

Oh well, we will just sit here and wait. Hopefully, this team will take this bye week to regroup, recharge and realize that the game vs Arizona is going to sent the tone for the rest of the season. Time to bring their A game, time to win.

"Break this down with ease" is easy when you can sit back and rewatch the same thing over and over. Now, run the same play with YOU at the QB. You have 4 seconds, GO. DONT DO THAT!!!! UGH.

Theres a difference.

All 22 look at an option play against Dallas

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