Seahawks.NET AMAZON STOREFRONT

Brutal honesty

The Essential Online Seattle Football Fan Forum Community. There simply is NO substitute. LANGUAGE RATING: PG-13
Re: Brutal honesty
Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:04 am
  • sutz wrote:You know the real "beauty" of up-tempo offense? If you go 3 and out, you get your defense back on the field 3 minutes sooner.

    :34853_doh:

    Sometimes I wonder why people bother. :229031_shrug:

    Finally, a rational thought instead of the regurgitated "just run hurry-up, it'll solve all of our offensive woes!" nonsense. Earl Thomas just complained in the postgame about how often the defense has to be on the field. Do you know what the hurry-up offense does? It puts your defense on the field even more.

    Someone mentioned Chip Kelly, and how disastrous his up-tempo offense was. Remember how awful his defenses were? Remember the insane snap counts his defenses racked up? It was like the equivalent of his defensive players playing 17-18 games in a season.
    User avatar
    JimmyG
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 193
    Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:42 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:08 am
  • Foghawk wrote:Never been in the "Fire Bevell" crowd that's been roaming around the board for a few years. But, after last season and what I watched today it just feels like the Bevell/Cable combination has grown stale. IMO a change from these two would've been good move this last offseason. I hope I'm wrong.


    I am in your boat. Generally there are enough extenuating circumstances, a poor play here and there, an almost great play that doesn't quite come together that I can't pin it on Bevell, and not that this would have radically changed the way the Oline played, but I can't understand calling 3 pass plays to open the game. You know you have an Oline that is sub par, so let's call a couple of running plays to get there feet under them and try to give Russell a 3rd and 5 or something like it. No. You call a semi screen to Carson, something we suck at, a bubble screen to a well defensed ADB and since I blacked out at that point I don't remember what the 3rd pass play was.

    Granted we tried to run the ball plenty after that and we sucked at that as well so it may have made no difference, but WTF Bevell/Pete?Cable? WTF?
    Russell has some stats that aren't Superb? Ow! Love his balls anyways!

    SC
    User avatar
    StoneCold
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2798
    Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:29 am


Re: Brutal honesty
Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:13 am
  • JimmyG wrote:
    sutz wrote:You know the real "beauty" of up-tempo offense? If you go 3 and out, you get your defense back on the field 3 minutes sooner.

    :34853_doh:

    Sometimes I wonder why people bother. :229031_shrug:

    Finally, a rational thought instead of the regurgitated "just run hurry-up, it'll solve all of our offensive woes!" nonsense. Earl Thomas just complained in the postgame about how often the defense has to be on the field. Do you know what the hurry-up offense does? It puts your defense on the field even more.

    Someone mentioned Chip Kelly, and how disastrous his up-tempo offense was. Remember how awful his defenses were? Remember the insane snap counts his defenses racked up? It was like the equivalent of his defensive players playing 17-18 games in a season.


    In most cases I would agree with this, but if an up tempo helps you move the ball and get first downs you would have eaten more clock with that than what we were doing with the 3 and outs.
    Russell has some stats that aren't Superb? Ow! Love his balls anyways!

    SC
    User avatar
    StoneCold
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2798
    Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:29 am


Re: Brutal honesty
Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:19 am
  • I'm not even mad that the offensive line sucks, everyone's offensive line in the NFL sucks except for a few teams. Im mad that we refuse to adapt our offense around it. It cant be a coincidence that our offense comes to life EVERY SINGLE TIME when the games either out of hand or its a two min drill. Its time to start playing full court press with our offense and let Wilson take over.
    User avatar
    IrishNW
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 689
    Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:55 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:25 am
  • bigskydoc wrote:....As the years go by, I'm more and more convinced that the problem lies squarely on the shoulders of Cable, and, by extension, Carrol who's philosophy, and unwillingness to move on from Cable, is costing this team.


    Absolutely 100% true.
    User avatar
    Seymour
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2973
    Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:41 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:31 am
  • endzorn wrote:I think our Super Bowl window has closed.


    You can certainly make a case for the fact that this O-line is so terrible that there's no way our offense can function enough to go to the SB THIS year. I'd listen to that argument with how putrid the O-line was yesterday creating NO WAY at all for the offense to move the ball.

    But to go a step further and say our SB window has closed entirely? That's absurd.

    The core of our best players aren't even 30 yet, and we have a top 5-6 QB, so your statement is categorically false. Our window is still wide open with this core for at least another 4-5 years as long as John, Pete, Russell and guys like Earl, Clark, Sherm, Wagner and the younger players keep progressing as they've already shown.
    If there is no Seahawk football in heaven, then we will never die.
    User avatar
    Sgt. Largent
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 12324
    Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:10 am


Re: Brutal honesty
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:12 am
  • JimmyG wrote:
    sutz wrote:You know the real "beauty" of up-tempo offense? If you go 3 and out, you get your defense back on the field 3 minutes sooner.

    :34853_doh:

    Sometimes I wonder why people bother. :229031_shrug:

    Finally, a rational thought instead of the regurgitated "just run hurry-up, it'll solve all of our offensive woes!" nonsense. Earl Thomas just complained in the postgame about how often the defense has to be on the field. Do you know what the hurry-up offense does? It puts your defense on the field even more.

    Someone mentioned Chip Kelly, and how disastrous his up-tempo offense was. Remember how awful his defenses were? Remember the insane snap counts his defenses racked up? It was like the equivalent of his defensive players playing 17-18 games in a season.


    Worrying about TOP induced by offensive tempo is something you can worry about after worrying about offensive efficacy.

    Some of our shortest drives yesterday were not under uptempo constraints. Our only points were induced under up tempo.

    It's nice theory football to say that going uptempo will gas our defense but if thats the only way we get points and the other modes of offensive also gas the defense without putting up points, then it's clear up tempo is better even with the potential harm to the defense.
    mrt144
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3257
    Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:21 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:14 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:As a matter of philosophy Pete Carroll -- and teams with great defenses in general -- don't run uptempo offenses because to do so takes away the advantage of controlling the clock and strangling a team to death. It's just not the way that Pete Carroll plays and really just isn't the way to play when you have a dominate defense.
    .


    After years and years of watching three and out when do you realize that 7 completed plays under uptempo takes longer than three straight outs?

    I remember a Titans game about 3 years ago. We MASTERFULLY dinked and dunked our way downfield. We had this long drive and just kept short passes, runs going mixing it up. Completely opened up the game

    We are in love with running the ball despite our inability to do so. Short, quick throws are required to open up the rest of the game when your O-line is this bad. Rolling the QB to the sides and then hitting guys in stride - moving the pocket. Hot routes all basic concepts and if we got to the line quickly - had everyone set, stopped the defense from substituting and then worked the clock we could start moving the ball
    mikeak
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6768
    Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:24 pm
    Location: Anchorage, AK


Re: Brutal honesty
Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:35 am
  • cymatica wrote:
    classicaaron wrote:I cant stand all this talk of we were in the game and we lost to the packers on the road so whats the big deal. the big deal is the offense was pure garbage. I don't care if we lost by the same exact score but you have to move the ball. does no one realize the difference in moving the ball to mid field numerous times, getting 3 first downs every drive and then having to punt versus 3 and out all day and being 4th and 12, 4th and 15. a lot of possessions we lost yards instead of gaining even a single yard. its pathetic. not like the packers lit it up offensively. take away the 7 points Wilson handed them and they only score 10. but at least with those 10 they moved the ball to flip the field position and chewed up clock. they didn't look inept, they just looked like a team playing a great defense but were still able to control the game and accomplish things. Seattle was the exact opposite of that.


    This 100%. It's not that they lost, it's how they lost and the fact it's a recurring problem several years now, everyone sees it but Pete.


    I have said this in three posts around here - agree 100%

    I didn't expect a win yesterday. I just didn't want to see something as bad offensively as prior years. I got to see something much much worse.........
    mikeak
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6768
    Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:24 pm
    Location: Anchorage, AK


Re: Brutal honesty
Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:49 am
  • What a bunch of babies
    BlueBlood
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1149
    Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:50 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:45 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:I'm not defending Cable at all, but Bevell is the larger problem. He can call plays that try to compensate for our crappy O-line and almost never does. We've got the most mobile QB in the league, but if someone actually tracked the stats on designed bootlegs, we'd probably be in the bottom quarter of the league in terms of percentage.

    It's absurd...and so frustrating to watch year, after year, after year, after year.


    I agree. Excellent summary.
    Netskier
    netskier
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1198
    Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 9:18 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:11 pm
  • What is Brutal Honesty is nor OC and O Line coach want to re invent the wheel every off season, every time we play our musical Chairs game it sets us back at the start of the season, we start out slow and struggle players get dinged and hurt etc. Whether i's method, technique planning or all the above it creates frustration for everyone whether they say it or not. Turnover is inevitable, but not the whole sale rotation player movement we seem to have everywhere every year.
    Image

    To Be P/C or Not P/C That is the Question..........Seahawks kick Ass !!!!
    Check your PM's, Thank you for everything Radish RIP My Friend. :les:
    Member of the 38 club.
    User avatar
    chris98251
    .NET Hijacker
     
    Posts: 22217
    Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:52 pm
    Location: Renton Wa.


Re: Brutal honesty
Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:05 pm
  • It's like someone warned this would happen last season... :|
    semiahmoo
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1213
    Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:10 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:15 pm
  • People are comical.....we were robbed on the road, because the league didn't want GB to potentially go 0-2 (they are at ATL next week.....the schedule "round robin" assured at least 2 of the 3 teams would have a loss by tne end of week two, by robbing Seattle.

    Someone please find me 3 more losses on the schedule....

    Arizona lost David Johnson, likely for the year and Carson Palmer is aging.

    The Rams have a tough DLine, they will not beat us with Goff at QB

    SF is rebuilding....

    Houston and the Colts are playing young or inexperienced QB's,,,,

    we are at Jacksonville late in the year.

    There are 3 potential losses left on the schedule.

    At NY Giants (We are off a bye and the Giants OL is as bad as Seattle's is.....

    At Dallas on Christmas Eve....

    home for Atlanta....(Monday night football)

    We should handle Philly at home and Washington at home.

    Seattle finishes with the #1 seed if we beat the Giants in late October and Green Bay and ATL aren't winning 13 games, with one of them playing the other next week.

    I know the line is bad, but Chris Carson, Prosise, Darboh all offer upside that the offense hasn't had in multiple years....and that's assuming we get little from Eddie Lacy and Rawls.

    The defense will dominate these bad QB's and get challenged by Dallas and ATL....maybe Philly...there is no other All Pro QB caliber QB's on our schedule this year.

    I believe the NFL knew if Seattle won this game and owned the tiebreaker over GB, with the potential to get the tiebreaker over ATL at home later in the year, the NFC would go through Seattle.

    The only way Seattle doesn't win 11 games is if we lose more than 4 Pro Bowl starters on defense....and the depth added on defense is overwhelming right now....Shaq Griffin showed himself to be more than capable.

    The OLine fix is to play Pocic and Tobin and replace Glowinski and Rees....I think the most talented line is starting now with upside, but the most aggressive and hardest working line would be Tobin, Joeckel, Britt, Obushi and Pocic....it would be ballsy to go with that 5, but it would be the hardest working 5 on the line I would not get nauseous watching Ifedi, Reed and Glowinski not give 100% effort on every play.
    NewJerseyHawk
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 219
    Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:42 am
    Location: Central New Jersey


Re: Brutal honesty
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:05 pm
  • GB was the better team. Better coached, better QB, better period.

    Our D was the only unit that showed up. Carson ran the rock pretty well. Hope he gets more touches.

    We weren't robbed. Bad calls happen. Sometimes they go our way sometimes they don't.

    The better team won - Green Bay.
    semiahmoo
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1213
    Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:10 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:08 am
  • The home team usually wins that game anyway. Just would have been nice to play the game w/out the striped having such an impact. But yes, the Packers were the better team SUNDAY. But time will tell if they are better overall.
    R.I.P. THE EDGAR, YOU WILL BE MISSED......
    User avatar
    SoulfishHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6668
    Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:59 am
    Location: Sammamish, WA


Re: Brutal honesty
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:13 am
  • Anthony! wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:
    Anthony! wrote:Your offense has the players for uptmepo, but these coaches refuse to do it. that is a problem

    They did do it tonight. Are you talking about the entirety of the game? Do you think the Hawks can be the second coming of the Greatest Show on Turf?


    They did it twice tonight and guess what we scored and moved the ball, now imagine we did it more oh like HMm 2015

    Simply sprinkle it in, in a series say get 10 plays, whats wrong with half of that uptempo? answer nothing again refer to 2015


    I agree with everyting Anthony said. Now I need a drink. :irishdrinkers:

    Seriously, we don't change anything up. We're easy to game plan. And we don't play to our strengths and weaknesses.

    We went uptempo when we HAD to. End of the half and down by 2 scores. And they still couldn't stop it.

    Now imagine going uptempo say, the opening possession of the game or 2nd half. Think they'd be looking for it then?

    And I'm talking uptempo like getting to the line quickly, then sitting there for 15 seconds. We're not talking about no huddle here.
    Hawks46
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 7458
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:01 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:25 am
  • Hawks46 wrote:
    Anthony! wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:
    Anthony! wrote:Your offense has the players for uptmepo, but these coaches refuse to do it. that is a problem

    They did do it tonight. Are you talking about the entirety of the game? Do you think the Hawks can be the second coming of the Greatest Show on Turf?


    They did it twice tonight and guess what we scored and moved the ball, now imagine we did it more oh like HMm 2015

    Simply sprinkle it in, in a series say get 10 plays, whats wrong with half of that uptempo? answer nothing again refer to 2015


    I agree with everyting Anthony said. Now I need a drink. :irishdrinkers:

    Seriously, we don't change anything up. We're easy to game plan. And we don't play to our strengths and weaknesses.

    We went uptempo when we HAD to. End of the half and down by 2 scores. And they still couldn't stop it.

    Now imagine going uptempo say, the opening possession of the game or 2nd half. Think they'd be looking for it then?

    And I'm talking uptempo like getting to the line quickly, then sitting there for 15 seconds. We're not talking about no huddle here.

    I could see that being employed. I think teams will use that "Nitro" package that the Packers brought out against us the first half of the year. They can get dividends by sending just 3 or 4 guys against our line at this point, so why not press the corners and clog up those soft zones in the middle? Once we start providing Russ protection (2.5 seconds baseline) or getting marginal creases for our backs to cut through, then I like your idea as teams will have to make decisions on what part of the field to protect and how much pressure to send. Sporadic uptempos could catch them out of position -- advantage us!
    User avatar
    Siouxhawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3615
    Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:46 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:48 am
  • endzorn wrote:I was embarrassed for Tom Cable AGAIN. He's the common denominator in all these horrendous lines. Today we started a 3rd rounder at LT, a high 1st at LG, a 2nd at C, a 4th at RG and a 1st at RT. They were far from even being average.

    Wow, nice use of colorful language. Did you really just describe Luke Joeckel as a "high 1st" round pick, in an attempt to suggest that he's brimming with talent? That might be the most disingenuous thing I've ever read. That's like the Seahawks signing Ryan Leaf, him (predictably) struggling, and then you saying, "wow, this is inexcusable, Carl Smith and Darrel Bevell have a 2nd overall talent to work with and they still can't make a good player out of him".

    The common denominator is the front office. The front office continues to roll the dice. Draft picks are not certainties, they are gambles. Gambles are fine, but they Seahawks with their offensive line are trying to rely on them exclusively. If you want certainty, then pony up and pay for it. They don't do that. They are the lowest paid offensive line in football. We let TJ Lang slip away, we traded away Max Unger, etc... this falls on the front office just as much as it falls on Cable.

    Seriously, this isn't rocket science. We have arguably invested less than any other team in our offensive line and... drumroll please... we have arguably worst offensive line in football. That's not bad coaching or bad luck, that's called making your bed and having to sleep in it.

    It's interesting how the same scapegoats surface again and again ("Cable sucks!", "Bevell sucks!") but others are beyond reproach (Wilson, Carroll, Schneider, etc rarely given a fair share of criticism) .
    User avatar
    JimmyG
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 193
    Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:42 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:00 am
  • JimmyG wrote:
    endzorn wrote:I was embarrassed for Tom Cable AGAIN. He's the common denominator in all these horrendous lines. Today we started a 3rd rounder at LT, a high 1st at LG, a 2nd at C, a 4th at RG and a 1st at RT. They were far from even being average.

    Wow, nice use of colorful language. Did you really just describe Luke Joeckel as a "high 1st" round pick, in an attempt to suggest that he's brimming with talent? That might be the most disingenuous thing I've ever read. That's like the Seahawks signing Ryan Leaf, him (predictably) struggling, and then you saying, "wow, this is inexcusable, Carl Smith and Darrel Bevell have a 2nd overall talent to work with and they still can't make a good player out of him".

    The common denominator is the front office. The front office continues to roll the dice. Draft picks are not certainties, they are gambles. Gambles are fine, but they Seahawks with their offensive line are trying to rely on them exclusively. If you want certainty, then pony up and pay for it. They don't do that. They are the lowest paid offensive line in football. We let TJ Lang slip away, we traded away Max Unger, etc... this falls on the front office just as much as it falls on Cable.

    Seriously, this isn't rocket science. We have arguably invested less than any other team in our offensive line and... drumroll please... we have arguably worst offensive line in football. That's not bad coaching or bad luck, that's called making your bed and having to sleep in it.

    It's interesting how the same scapegoats surface again and again ("Cable sucks!", "Bevell sucks!") but others are beyond reproach (Wilson, Carroll, Schneider, etc rarely given a fair share of criticism) .


    If your car needs a new air filter, do you buy a new car?

    I would argue that even if PCJS are ultimately responsible, they actually do a lot of good things as well and thusly are much harder to replace. Cable and Bevell, are scapegoats because they don't bring the same upside that PCJS do as a whole - and yeah, that's the thing that sucks about being an OC and not HC.
    mrt144
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3257
    Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:21 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:34 am
  • JimmyG wrote:
    endzorn wrote:I was embarrassed for Tom Cable AGAIN. He's the common denominator in all these horrendous lines. Today we started a 3rd rounder at LT, a high 1st at LG, a 2nd at C, a 4th at RG and a 1st at RT. They were far from even being average.

    Wow, nice use of colorful language. Did you really just describe Luke Joeckel as a "high 1st" round pick, in an attempt to suggest that he's brimming with talent? That might be the most disingenuous thing I've ever read. That's like the Seahawks signing Ryan Leaf, him (predictably) struggling, and then you saying, "wow, this is inexcusable, Carl Smith and Darrel Bevell have a 2nd overall talent to work with and they still can't make a good player out of him".

    The common denominator is the front office. The front office continues to roll the dice. Draft picks are not certainties, they are gambles. Gambles are fine, but they Seahawks with their offensive line are trying to rely on them exclusively. If you want certainty, then pony up and pay for it. They don't do that. They are the lowest paid offensive line in football. We let TJ Lang slip away, we traded away Max Unger, etc... this falls on the front office just as much as it falls on Cable.

    Seriously, this isn't rocket science. We have arguably invested less than any other team in our offensive line and... drumroll please... we have arguably worst offensive line in football. That's not bad coaching or bad luck, that's called making your bed and having to sleep in it.

    It's interesting how the same scapegoats surface again and again ("Cable sucks!", "Bevell sucks!") but others are beyond reproach (Wilson, Carroll, Schneider, etc rarely given a fair share of criticism) .


    There is only so much money to go around, so who on the defense do you want to cut? That is really what it comes down to, we have a kick ass defense, and a putrid offensive line. You can't have both, that is not how it works, if you try and split it equally, you get 8-8 or worse. If you have a defense, you hope you score just enough on offense to win. If you have a great offense, you hope you can out score you opponent enough so you defense can hold them for a series or two.

    The only player I see on this team that has any worth, and is expendable is Jimmy. We don't use him appropriately, and his blocking is bad. Who is going to give up a starting caliber LT, or a RT for him? This team is who it is, and with a bit more time I believe the offense will gel, and the defense is more than capable of keeping us in games. I truly believe the Refs took 14 points off the board for us in a game most people on this board thought we were going to lose anyway. We only lost by 8 in the end, and again most people thought we would lose by more. I just don't get it, long way to go, I am going to enjoy the ride.
    It's about damn time #45 is in the HOF
    tacomahawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 690
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:36 am
    Location: T-town


Re: Brutal honesty
Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:01 pm
  • minormillikin wrote:We just lost at Lambeau, to probably the other best team in the Nfc, by 8 points in a game where a couple bad calls and/or one overthrown pass to Lockett made the difference.

    If we lose at home next week to the hapless 9ers, I'll join you in your gloom and doom.

    Until then:
    "Relax."

    +10


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    User avatar
    LeftHandSmoke
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1574
    Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 2:21 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:36 am
  • tacomahawk wrote:There is only so much money to go around, so who on the defense do you want to cut? That is really what it comes down to, we have a kick ass defense, and a putrid offensive line. You can't have both, that is not how it works, if you try and split it equally, you get 8-8 or worse. If you have a defense, you hope you score just enough on offense to win. If you have a great offense, you hope you can out score you opponent enough so you defense can hold them for a series or two.

    I understand that, and I'm not disputing it. With the way the team is structured, they have to cut corners somewhere. They're doing it on the offensive line. Blaming Cable for that is lazy and intellectually dishonest.

    Then again, this is the same board that attributes every single offensive failure to Bevell. Blaming coaches is weak and lazy. Nothing screams "casual analysis" more than scapegoating a coach.
    User avatar
    JimmyG
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 193
    Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:42 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:25 am
  • We can't even talk about the POSSIBILITY of the Seahawks' Super Bowl window being closed until there's another team in the NFC West that can present even an iota of a challenge to them winning the division.

    If you make the playoffs your Super Bowl window is open.

    Even after a loss (in an 8 point away game to a top team in their conference) I really don't believe that even the most distraught Seahawks fan sitting closet to the cliff seriously thinks that the Hawks aren't going to win the NFC West.
    User avatar
    Popeyejones
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4382
    Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:58 am


Re: Brutal honesty
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:27 am
  • People should really step back and look at the history of this team under Carroll. Quite a few slow starts. This isn't something out of the ordinary. When they win by 2 or 3 touchdowns on Sunday, it'll feel a lot better. :irishdrinkers:
    R.I.P. THE EDGAR, YOU WILL BE MISSED......
    User avatar
    SoulfishHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6668
    Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:59 am
    Location: Sammamish, WA


Re: Brutal honesty
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:00 am
  • There is only so much money to go around, so who on the defense do you want to cut?


    No one. Keep everyone on the o-line. Get a new o-line coach that better fits the system and teaches proper technique.
    cymatica
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 983
    Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:40 am


Re: Brutal honesty
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:22 am
  • cymatica wrote:
    There is only so much money to go around, so who on the defense do you want to cut?


    No one. Keep everyone on the o-line. Get a new o-line coach that better fits the system and teaches proper technique.


    Outsider perspective here, but coordinators and position coaches make for good scapegoats because they're not the people anyone roots for, and because we as fans don't have a window into what they're doing and not doing, nor do we really have the expertise to evaluate it if we did have a window.

    Not to put too fine a point on it, but unless someone can rattle off what the two LBs and three cornerback's tendencies are when in the nickle and pattern matching against an RPO, what that person thinks about their OCs play-calling or what they think about what the position coach is or isn't doing isn't worth a hill of beans.

    On my rewatch of the Hawks game from this last week it didn't seem like they were calling the wrong plays or the O-lines real problem was their fundamentals, the players just aren't talented and were getting beat.

    It was the same story on my rewatch of the 9ers game: It's not like the scheme is wrong or Zane Beadles just needs to be coached up, he's just not an NFL caliber starting lineman and was getting beaten to a pulp by superior players.
    User avatar
    Popeyejones
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4382
    Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:58 am


Re: Brutal honesty
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:17 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    cymatica wrote:
    There is only so much money to go around, so who on the defense do you want to cut?


    No one. Keep everyone on the o-line. Get a new o-line coach that better fits the system and teaches proper technique.


    Outsider perspective here, but coordinators and position coaches make for good scapegoats because they're not the people anyone roots for, and because we as fans don't have a window into what they're doing and not doing, nor do we really have the expertise to evaluate it if we did have a window.

    Not to put too fine a point on it, but unless someone can rattle off what the two LBs and three cornerback's tendencies are when in the nickle and pattern matching against an RPO, what that person thinks about their OCs play-calling or what they think about what the position coach is or isn't doing isn't worth a hill of beans.

    On my rewatch of the Hawks game from this last week it didn't seem like they were calling the wrong plays or the O-lines real problem was their fundamentals, the players just aren't talented and were getting beat.

    It was the same story on my rewatch of the 9ers game: It's not like the scheme is wrong or Zane Beadles just needs to be coached up, he's just not an NFL caliber starting lineman and was getting beaten to a pulp by superior players.


    Your logical assessment will fall on deaf ears here Popeye.

    But I agree with you, playcalling isn't the issue, this offense can roll when everyone executes, we've seen it.

    What I saw Sunday was some of the worst execution by an offense in a long time, from just about everybody. That IMO is on Pete even more than Cable and Bevell.......it's his job to get the players prepared.
    If there is no Seahawk football in heaven, then we will never die.
    User avatar
    Sgt. Largent
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 12324
    Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:10 am


Re: Brutal honesty
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:35 am
  • I recall seeing plenty of "wrong plays". Even more I see the lack of the right play. Again they are NOT playing to counter their weakness. They are NOT moving the pocket, they are not doing quick passes

    They ARE running it up the middle on 2nd and 20...............
    mikeak
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6768
    Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:24 pm
    Location: Anchorage, AK


Re: Brutal honesty
Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:40 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:
    cymatica wrote:
    There is only so much money to go around, so who on the defense do you want to cut?


    No one. Keep everyone on the o-line. Get a new o-line coach that better fits the system and teaches proper technique.


    Outsider perspective here, but coordinators and position coaches make for good scapegoats because they're not the people anyone roots for, and because we as fans don't have a window into what they're doing and not doing, nor do we really have the expertise to evaluate it if we did have a window.

    Not to put too fine a point on it, but unless someone can rattle off what the two LBs and three cornerback's tendencies are when in the nickle and pattern matching against an RPO, what that person thinks about their OCs play-calling or what they think about what the position coach is or isn't doing isn't worth a hill of beans.

    On my rewatch of the Hawks game from this last week it didn't seem like they were calling the wrong plays or the O-lines real problem was their fundamentals, the players just aren't talented and were getting beat.

    It was the same story on my rewatch of the 9ers game: It's not like the scheme is wrong or Zane Beadles just needs to be coached up, he's just not an NFL caliber starting lineman and was getting beaten to a pulp by superior players.


    Your logical assessment will fall on deaf ears here Popeye.

    But I agree with you, playcalling isn't the issue, this offense can roll when everyone executes, we've seen it.

    What I saw Sunday was some of the worst execution by an offense in a long time, from just about everybody. That IMO is on Pete even more than Cable and Bevell.......it's his job to get the players prepared.


    Nothing falling on deaf ears, I understand completely and sometimes i jump the gun on my reactions. I don't intimately know the game like our coaches. 100% correct there are things I miss.

    My opinion on Cable is based on results and what my eyes tell me, not stats or knee jerk reaction. I watch other teams lines and even the bad ones don't look this bad. The line has always been a pass blocking atrocity under Cable, the only good run game was with Lynch and Wilson running a zone read. We didn't ever see great run blocking(okay, occasionally we did), we saw a great rb/qb dual threat and temporary fad(zone read) catch defenses off guard. Once they figured out the zone read, the running game gradually went with it. Ill add it was already inflated with Wilson's yards. Not of that tells me good blocking or line play, tells me we had a good scheme at the time that complimented the weakness. I will definitely credit Bevell for that, the bubble screen-deep fade offense sucks though.

    I guess the bottom line is Pete needs to adapt his offense
    cymatica
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 983
    Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:40 am


Re: Brutal honesty
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:18 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:Outsider perspective here, but coordinators and position coaches make for good scapegoats because they're not the people anyone roots for, and because we as fans don't have a window into what they're doing and not doing, nor do we really have the expertise to evaluate it if we did have a window.

    100% agree. And also because they are low-hanging fruit. "Oh, if we could just fire Bevell and bring in someone else, our offense would improve so much. His replacement doesn't even have to be great. Bevell is just so bad, he is such a hindrance that even bringing someone mediocre in would be a net positive! It would be addition by subtraction."

    You see this in every sport. Tyronn Lue was basically hand-picked by LeBron James and has made it to two Finals in a row, and Cleveland fans think he's incompetent.

    Every MLB fan in the league thinks that his manager is the worst at bullpen management. (Bullpen management is like the ultimately parallel to playcalling, it is always, always, always viewed with hindsight bias.)

    I've never heard a football fan say they like their offensive coordinator.

    So, yeah... if you complain about a coach I agree, it's automatically filed under "this person has no idea what they're talking about".
    User avatar
    JimmyG
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 193
    Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:42 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:38 am
  • JimmyG wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:Outsider perspective here, but coordinators and position coaches make for good scapegoats because they're not the people anyone roots for, and because we as fans don't have a window into what they're doing and not doing, nor do we really have the expertise to evaluate it if we did have a window.

    100% agree. And also because they are low-hanging fruit. "Oh, if we could just fire Bevell and bring in someone else, our offense would improve so much. His replacement doesn't even have to be great. Bevell is just so bad, he is such a hindrance that even bringing someone mediocre in would be a net positive! It would be addition by subtraction."

    You see this in every sport. Tyronn Lue was basically hand-picked by LeBron James and has made it to two Finals in a row, and Cleveland fans think he's incompetent.

    Every MLB fan in the league thinks that his manager is the worst at bullpen management. (Bullpen management is like the ultimately parallel to playcalling, it is always, always, always viewed with hindsight bias.)

    I've never heard a football fan say they like their offensive coordinator.

    So, yeah... if you complain about a coach I agree, it's automatically filed under "this person has no idea what they're talking about".


    If you think our offensive coaches are doing a good job then that is automatically filed under "this person has no idea what they're talking about"

    If you think what we saw all last year and this year is acceptable and not due to any fault from the offensive coordinators then that is amazing IMHO. If you think they have any fault at all then people can rightfully complain
    mikeak
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6768
    Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:24 pm
    Location: Anchorage, AK


Re: Brutal honesty
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:43 am
  • JimmyG wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:Outsider perspective here, but coordinators and position coaches make for good scapegoats because they're not the people anyone roots for, and because we as fans don't have a window into what they're doing and not doing, nor do we really have the expertise to evaluate it if we did have a window.

    100% agree. And also because they are low-hanging fruit. "Oh, if we could just fire Bevell and bring in someone else, our offense would improve so much. His replacement doesn't even have to be great. Bevell is just so bad, he is such a hindrance that even bringing someone mediocre in would be a net positive! It would be addition by subtraction."

    You see this in every sport. Tyronn Lue was basically hand-picked by LeBron James and has made it to two Finals in a row, and Cleveland fans think he's incompetent.

    Every MLB fan in the league thinks that his manager is the worst at bullpen management. (Bullpen management is like the ultimately parallel to playcalling, it is always, always, always viewed with hindsight bias.)

    I've never heard a football fan say they like their offensive coordinator.

    So, yeah... if you complain about a coach I agree, it's automatically filed under "this person has no idea what they're talking about".

    I truly like your posts Jimmy. Scapegoating low-hanging fruit is a preoccupation for some around here. :2thumbs:
    User avatar
    Siouxhawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3615
    Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:46 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:43 pm
  • What is most telling is it appears no-one in the league thinks much of Bevell either. If they did he'd be a head coach by now.

    The team has been a behind-the-scenes mess for some time and it's clearly bleeding out over the field on game days.

    Frankly, the entire coaching staff of this team looks tired and that's reflected in the Jekyll and Hyde output for the last few seasons. We limp into the playoffs, and our throttled by far better teams without any real chance of getting back into the Super Bowl.

    Was hoping that somehow this season might be different but it's looking like a rehash of the last couple seasons right now.

    Bummer.

    Go Hawks?
    semiahmoo
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1213
    Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:10 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:52 pm
  • The Hawks will only go to the Super Bowl as long as the offense can get consistent scores. If the Seahawks lose 3 more games, and cannot secure 1st place, they will not go to the Super Bowl.
    "You know why I'm on Seahawks.net!" -Marshawn Lynch

    Seattle Seahawks Super Bowl XLVIII Champions

    Pete Carroll & Darrell Bevell be like: "Trust us--we're gonna outsmart them!"
    User avatar
    TheLegendOfBoom
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 403
    Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:12 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:37 am
  • RolandDeschain wrote:I'm not defending Cable at all, but Bevell is the larger problem. He can call plays that try to compensate for our crappy O-line and almost never does. We've got the most mobile QB in the league, but if someone actually tracked the stats on designed bootlegs, we'd probably be in the bottom quarter of the league in terms of percentage.

    It's absurd...and so frustrating to watch year, after year, after year, after year.


    A few different film guys broke down Bevell in the second half only to find him go to even more 5-7 static pocket pass plays with elementary slow developing route trees. None of them could figure out what Bevell was thinking. I think Hasselbeck was calling out the staff in a sense too. A common theme in this thread is that we will adjust moving forward but they knew we were bad and have been for over a year so how were we surprised that our line got beat play after play? How did this come out of left field and we couldn't even figure out a way to react with a different style of offense even into the 2nd half? It seems odd to me. I'm sure we will get better but it seems like Bevell and the staff are way too reactionary and caught off guard while NE for example is pre-emptive in seeing its problems when self scouting.
    User avatar
    austinslater25
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6368
    Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:05 pm
    Location: Tri-Cities, Washington


Re: Brutal honesty
Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:48 am
  • austinslater25 wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:I'm not defending Cable at all, but Bevell is the larger problem. He can call plays that try to compensate for our crappy O-line and almost never does. We've got the most mobile QB in the league, but if someone actually tracked the stats on designed bootlegs, we'd probably be in the bottom quarter of the league in terms of percentage.

    It's absurd...and so frustrating to watch year, after year, after year, after year.


    A few different film guys broke down Bevell in the second half only to find him go to even more 5-7 static pocket pass plays with elementary slow developing route trees. None of them could figure out what Bevell was thinking. I think Hasselbeck was calling out the staff in a sense too. A common theme in this thread is that we will adjust moving forward but they knew we were bad and have been for over a year so how were we surprised that our line got beat play after play? How did this come out of left field and we couldn't even figure out a way to react with a different style of offense even into the 2nd half? It seems odd to me. I'm sure we will get better but it seems like Bevell and the staff are way too reactionary and caught off guard while NE for example is pre-emptive in seeing its problems when self scouting.


    Yup. It's why Bevell hasn't landed a head coaching gig by now.

    He sucks and the league knows it.

    Pete should have terminated him two years ago.
    semiahmoo
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1213
    Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:10 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:56 am
  • The plays we ran were not the problem -- the pressure and lack of a running game was. For the kind of pressure Russ was getting, about the only thing our receivers could do was pivot a 180 out of their stance before Russ could get a pass off.
    User avatar
    Siouxhawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3615
    Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:46 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:07 am
  • Siouxhawk wrote:The plays we ran were not the problem -- the pressure and lack of a running game was. For the kind of pressure Russ was getting, about the only thing our receivers could do was pivot a 180 out of their stance before Russ could get a pass off.


    Do you know what brutal honesty means?

    Bevell could flip his lid, shoot 100 innocent people, and you would say he wins at a 70% rate.

    Has Bevell ever done one single thing in his lifetime that you would be critical of? ...Forget it, I know that answer.

    The plays we ran were not THEEEEE problem. There was no THEEEEE problem. There were several, some worse than other. Bevells play calling and lack of adjustment was part of THEEEESE problems.
    User avatar
    Seymour
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2973
    Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:41 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:23 am
  • Siouxhawk wrote:The plays we ran were not the problem -- the pressure and lack of a running game was. For the kind of pressure Russ was getting, about the only thing our receivers could do was pivot a 180 out of their stance before Russ could get a pass off.


    But you said it yourself Wilson was under a ton of pressure yet we ran MORE 5-7 deep routes looking for chunk plays which makes absolutely no sense. I'm not even saying its a Bevell thing. I'm honestly starting to think its much deeper than that but to say the plays we ran weren't the problem is an odd statement to make. Literally everyone with a trained eye was shocked after re-watching the tape.
    User avatar
    austinslater25
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6368
    Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:05 pm
    Location: Tri-Cities, Washington


Re: Brutal honesty
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:34 am
  • Seymour wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:The plays we ran were not the problem -- the pressure and lack of a running game was. For the kind of pressure Russ was getting, about the only thing our receivers could do was pivot a 180 out of their stance before Russ could get a pass off.


    Do you know what brutal honesty means?

    Bevell could flip his lid, shoot 100 innocent people, and you would say he wins at a 70% rate.

    Has Bevell ever done one single thing in his lifetime that you would be critical of? ...Forget it, I know that answer.

    The plays we ran were not THEEEEE problem. There was no THEEEEE problem. There were several, some worse than other. Bevells play calling and lack of adjustment was part of THEEEESE problems.

    I've said before that when things go wrong -- or go the way you'd hoped -- that many factors are at play. The same holds true here. But when I say problem, I'm looking more at the root cause of the breakdown. And in Sunday's game, you bet it was the offensive line foremost, with other snags happening seperately or in relation to the liabilities created by lack of protection or space from the offensive line.

    And for what you are stating, I have never said Bevell is infallible, as no human being ever is. I've said time and again that he's the best fit for our offense and I believe that wholeheartedly. He brings Pete's vision of spread-offense ball control to life. And whether you want to give credence to that, it certainly is one of the reasons the Hawks have won nearly 70% of their games the past 5 seasons.
    User avatar
    Siouxhawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3615
    Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:46 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:44 am
  • austinslater25 wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:The plays we ran were not the problem -- the pressure and lack of a running game was. For the kind of pressure Russ was getting, about the only thing our receivers could do was pivot a 180 out of their stance before Russ could get a pass off.


    But you said it yourself Wilson was under a ton of pressure yet we ran MORE 5-7 deep routes looking for chunk plays which makes absolutely no sense. I'm not even saying its a Bevell thing. I'm honestly starting to think its much deeper than that but to say the plays we ran weren't the problem is an odd statement to make. Literally everyone with a trained eye was shocked after re-watching the tape.

    But there was an outlet or hot read, correct? And I swore Doug had 4 or 5 slants across the middle, turning at least 1 into a big gainer. Do you have a feed or link to those analysis? Or all-22 snippets?

    Here's what happens too: When Russ is being chased 10 yards into the backfield by instantaneous pressure, those plays that are supposed to move the chains wind up stagnating at the LOS as the receiver comes back to the ball to give Russ a target. That's what happened on that play with the well-circulated photo of 3 Packers pursuing Russ as three of our linemen pursued them. The play ended up being a completion to Jimmy, but for no gain. With a normal roll-out to the right, that play moves the chains.
    User avatar
    Siouxhawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3615
    Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:46 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:45 am
  • I don't think its fair to single out Bevell at this point and I've been critical of him as much as anyone. I read multiple accounts from people in the league saying what Seatte did was baffling with the play calls. After last year there is zero excuse for being caught off guard with the line play and then to not make any adjustments in the 2nd half is even dumber. GB was getting killed in the first half and made changes in the 2nd half to get the offense going. I love Pete but this is getting to the point where its odd. I still predict a SB run though. :)
    User avatar
    austinslater25
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6368
    Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:05 pm
    Location: Tri-Cities, Washington


Re: Brutal honesty
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:52 am
  • Siouxhawk wrote:....And for what you are stating, I have never said Bevell is infallible, as no human being ever is. I've said time and again that he's the best fit for our offense and I believe that wholeheartedly. He brings Pete's vision of spread-offense ball control to life. And whether you want to give credence to that, it certainly is one of the reasons the Hawks have won nearly 70% of their games the past 5 seasons.


    Good job, you got your 70% in again. :2thumbs:

    You don't have to say he is infallible. You imply it in nearly every post. That is "the core issue" people take with you IMO.
    User avatar
    Seymour
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2973
    Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:41 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:57 am
  • Siouxhawk wrote:The plays we ran were not the problem -- the pressure and lack of a running game was. For the kind of pressure Russ was getting, about the only thing our receivers could do was pivot a 180 out of their stance before Russ could get a pass off.

    You are completely missing the point Siouxhawk.
    The packers were under constant pressure the first half. They altered their game plan and scored 17 in the second half. Our staff did nothing to adjust to the pressure. That is a OC issue.
    edogg23
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 790
    Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 8:30 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:09 am
  • austinslater25 wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:The plays we ran were not the problem -- the pressure and lack of a running game was. For the kind of pressure Russ was getting, about the only thing our receivers could do was pivot a 180 out of their stance before Russ could get a pass off.


    But you said it yourself Wilson was under a ton of pressure yet we ran MORE 5-7 deep routes looking for chunk plays which makes absolutely no sense. I'm not even saying its a Bevell thing. I'm honestly starting to think its much deeper than that but to say the plays we ran weren't the problem is an odd statement to make. Literally everyone with a trained eye was shocked after re-watching the tape.


    What I don't get about that is last-half 2015 wasn't like this.

    It feels like Pete wants to protect the ball on offense and make bones on chunk plays, rather than spreading the risk out more evenly with intermediate-middle throws. Like Pete would rather the INT be way downfield like a punt when a risk is taken.
    hawk45
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 8144
    Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:08 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:18 am
  • edogg23 wrote:
    Siouxhawk wrote:The plays we ran were not the problem -- the pressure and lack of a running game was. For the kind of pressure Russ was getting, about the only thing our receivers could do was pivot a 180 out of their stance before Russ could get a pass off.

    You are completely missing the point Siouxhawk.
    The packers were under constant pressure the first half. They altered their game plan and scored 17 in the second half. Our staff did nothing to adjust to the pressure. That is a OC issue.

    With 14 of those coming from a gift fumble on the 5 and a broken coverage on a late substitution snafu (don't think Bobby was supposed to be birddogging Jordy 1-on-1). We had one offensive TD likely taken away on a piss-poor no-call by the refs and another go awry when Russ sailed one past a wide-open Lockett.

    I do want to see one of those delayed screen passes to a halfback, be it Rawls or Carson -- worked in. Brock Huard detailed our attempt to get Carson a pass on that first series with a rub from Jimmy. Carson didn't get wide enough, though and the pressure choked off that passing lane. Had he ran to the outside like drawn up, a big gainer awaited him. Next time, he makes that work.
    User avatar
    Siouxhawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3615
    Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:46 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:08 am
  • bigskydoc wrote:Image

    What this still-frame image doesn't show you is that the line of scrimmage on this play was at Seattle's own 32-yard-line. Wilson is on the 14-year-line. Of course your linemen don't create a clean pocket for you when you're 18 years behind the line of scrimmage. The protection was not good on this play, but it looks egregiously bad because Wilson did his patented pivot-spin move and ran backwards for 15 yards. This is where Wilson sometimes gets in trouble, because he's so far behind the line of scrimmage that an off-balance throw might not even make it back to the line of scrimmage (recall that if a thrown-away ball doesn't reach at least the line of scrimmage out of bounds, it's intentional grounding).

    Our line sucks but this image is disingenuous.
    User avatar
    JimmyG
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 193
    Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:42 pm


Re: Brutal honesty
Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:21 am
  • And what would you suggest he does here?
    R.I.P. THE EDGAR, YOU WILL BE MISSED......
    User avatar
    SoulfishHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6668
    Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:59 am
    Location: Sammamish, WA


Re: Brutal honesty
Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:26 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:And what would you suggest he does here?


    The answer is simple. Curl up into a ball and get planted at the 25 yard line there at Lambeau. You should re-emerge the following spring. :2thumbs:

    BTW...I see what you are saying now. Even that is Russells fault. :|
    User avatar
    Seymour
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2973
    Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:41 pm


PreviousNext


It is currently Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE OFFICIAL NET NATION FAN FORUM ]




Information