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Is the Defense better without Chancellor and Sherman?

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  • Blasphemy. I know. But Shaq is a straight baller. McDougal and Coleman are about average but with Thomas watching over I can't help but think they look a step or two faster. Sure the run defense misses Chancellors stout presence as backup, but maybe, just maybe, we may be better off. What say you?
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  • LOL
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  • A-Dog wrote:LOL


    :3-1:
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  • I don't know about better, but McDougald gives this team more flexibility in coverage than Kam... He's not nearly as impactful in the run game though.
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  • No.

    But I feel much better without them after tonight than I did before.
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  • knownone wrote:I don't know about better, but McDougald gives this team more flexibility in coverage than Kam... He's not nearly as impactful in the run game though.


    Okay maybe not better, but maybe the sky isn't falling after all and the young dogs will be able to hold it down.
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    Mistashoesta
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  • Shaq is going to replace Sherman, and McDougald is the real deal I said it when we signed him he is a beast. If I'm not mistaken he intercepted Wilson 3 times in there game against the bucs last year

    Chancellor is no longer missed imo we found our new guy
    Last edited by SlickRick on Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Long live The Legion of McDougle?
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  • Don't mistake a defense that could rest between series for one that was on the fieild a lot because the offense did nothing but three and out, Max is doing a good job, he needs to play through the whistle and not relax when he thinks the play is going away or is going to be finished. Shaq is going to dominate soon, McDougal is a starter, he plays pass better but Kam plays the run better, the seam pattern isn't there however when McDougal is in.
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  • Yeah these young guys are stepping up. I wonder even about niko Thorpe too. I saw we were giving up 4.2 yards a play. In 2013 we were 4.3 and the jaguars are 4.5. It's not over.
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  • No, but they'll hold down the fort nicely. Wentz didn't have a lot of options against our coverage.
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  • chris98251 wrote:Don't mistake a defense that could rest between series for one that was on the fieild a lot because the offense did nothing but three and out, Max is doing a good job, he needs to play through the whistle and not relax when he thinks the play is going away or is going to be finished. Shaq is going to dominate soon, McDougal is a starter, he plays pass better but Kam plays the run better, the seam pattern isn't there however when McDougal is in.


    ^This^

    Healthy Sherm easily picks the Wentz junk pass to Agholor that Max missed.

    Plus game for Maxwell overall, though.
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  • I think what we're seeing is Wagner picking up a lot of the slack overall. From the horses mouth, he's having to take over a lot of the clarity of calls to the back end. The root reason why the SS was "the head" of the secondary was due to proximity to the MLB, who calls the initial plays in the huddle, and likewise can communicate back via that same proximity conduit, the SS, if he wants to make a change himself. Wagner and Kam had worked really well together over the years, basically always on the same page. Luckly, McDougald seems to really fit in well as that conduit and is even making a play here and there himself. He's a drop off from Kam, but that's not really saying anything to a normal SS. As for the Corner part of it, it's more of a technique type of position being mostly cover 3. It's the man coverage that is often just there or not. We seem to be getting by there. AND, I'm excited to see Shead come back.
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  • Are pancakes better without syrup ?

    Guess it’s a matter of perspective and personal taste.
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  • pmedic920 wrote:Are pancakes better without syrup ?

    Guess it’s a matter of perspective and personal taste.


    Screw Pancakes, Pancakes are dead, French Toast is where it's at. Well unless it's a Twat Waffle then no matter how much syrup it won't taste well.
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  • No, just no. But I also don't think their loss automatically takes the Seahawks out of contention.
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  • I'm not sure how much I'm missing Kam but Sherms absence is definitely felt.
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  • That deep 45-yard prayer Wentz threw was probably a pick with Sherman there instead of an incompletion. Not sure what the OP is smoking, but it must be good. :)
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  • vin.couve12 wrote:I think what we're seeing is Wagner picking up a lot of the slack overall. From the horses mouth, he's having to take over a lot of the clarity of calls to the back end. The root reason why the SS was "the head" of the secondary was due to proximity to the MLB, who calls the initial plays in the huddle, and likewise can communicate back via that same proximity conduit, the SS, if he wants to make a change himself. Wagner and Kam had worked really well together over the years, basically always on the same page. Luckly, McDougald seems to really fit in well as that conduit and is even making a play here and there himself. He's a drop off from Kam, but that's not really saying anything to a normal SS. As for the Corner part of it, it's more of a technique type of position being mostly cover 3. It's the man coverage that is often just there or not. We seem to be getting by there. AND, I'm excited to see Shead come back.


    Great statement. I don't think McDougald is better in the run but I'm ok with good tackles and his coverage has been great. These guys have each others backs and we have Bobby as a leader similar to Kam's style. Oh yeah, we still have a bad ass ET. Really happy with how the D has come together right now.
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  • I love the young guys stepping up, but we could sure use Kam and Sherm.
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  • getnasty wrote:I'm not sure how much I'm missing Kam but Sherms absence is definitely felt.

    I suppose with Kam there is at least an argument to be made, although I still think it's a stretch. But there's no way Maxwell - despite mostly playing well enough - was any sort of upgrade on Sherman.
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  • Short answer, no.

    Pretty happy with a big win tonight though.
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  • No, but they got the job done tonight!
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  • Honestly Chancellor is better than his backup.

    But if Sherman sticks against the OPP's #1 WR, I would say Yes. Sometimes Sherman goes against #3's Most of the time.
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  • is this d better without Kam and Sherm lol...I agree with others McDougald can play and that helps a ton so I don't think that drop off is felt as severely as Sherms but this team is always better with Sherm on the field. but most importantly LANE OFF it
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  • Yeah but Lane is better than Coleman IMO.
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  • NO
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  • poly1274 wrote:Yeah but Lane is better than Coleman IMO.


    What? I don't have animosity against Lane like many but NO. Coleman has been stellar.
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  • poly1274 wrote:Yeah but Lane is better than Coleman IMO.


    100% this. This is a big reason it looked better. Less lane more Coleman

    Edit: misread your quote I didn't think it was possible for someone to write what you wrote.
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  • Just read a comment from an Eagles fan that said, "Can you imagine how this would have been if Seattle had all their starters?"

    Cracked me up. You're talking Avril there too though. Carson, probably, even though Davis played well, etc.

    Point is, it's a testament to how this team has responded and also the depth that we sought to get for specifically this reason. That with a couple of players who are playing at MVP/POY type levels at the time of year when we usually see that surge.....it's not optimal, but it's damn good. Maybe even good enough.

    This time of year, it's always hard to get a read on Seattle. They're dangerous right about now, as usual.
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  • Better, no, but there are some upsides.

    Obviously, younger guys get more playing time which makes them better, and lets us/coaches see really how good they are. Nothing compares to actual game time to evaluate a player.

    And, it screws with opponents' game plan. You think you've got easy mode in the passing game, only to realize there's still pass rush to contend with and the new guys aren't too shabby either.
    Last edited by minormillikin on Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

    However, they got the job done tonight.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

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  • Better? No. But they don't fall off the face of the earth like many predicted either. As long as the D line pressure continues they will hold, the pressure drops and the warts will be exposed.
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  • Mcdougald is better in coverage than Kam. Maxwell and shaq are also good but come on sherman is probably still the best corner in the NFL. I think they can run more man to man now because mcdougald can cover well.
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  • Last year it was Sherman and Shead and not much else. Right now it's Shaq, Max, Coleman, Lane and Thorpe. The depth is solid. Shead returning would be gravy.

    The Hawks have never had a credible backup to Thomas. They do now.

    The improving DL is helping this defense plus the lights out play at LB. Tonight was bend but don't break. I'll take that every game.
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  • chris98251 wrote:Don't mistake a defense that could rest between series for one that was on the fieild a lot because the offense did nothing but three and out, Max is doing a good job, he needs to play through the whistle and not relax when he thinks the play is going away or is going to be finished. Shaq is going to dominate soon, McDougal is a starter, he plays pass better but Kam plays the run better, the seam pattern isn't there however when McDougal is in.



    All good points, and all things Chancellor and Sherman learned. Time for the next gen to step up. Imagine having the luxury of spending money on the O line for a change...what havoc could Russ wreak given a decent O line?
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  • SlickRick wrote:Shaq is going to replace Sherman, and McDougald is the real deal I said it when we signed him he is a beast. If I'm not mistaken he intercepted Wilson 3 times in there game against the bucs last year

    Chancellor is no longer missed imo we found our new guy


    You are mistaken, he intercepted Russ once, the game winner. But, he is the real deal, one of the best signings by any team IMO.
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  • Coleman was a great trade and basically made Lane expendable.

    Sherman will come back just as strong next season, he looked the same this year as years past even with a lingering Achilles injury. Kam is a little slower but he sets the tone in the running game and against TE's. I think McDougald would be a good re-sign though, he's earned a contract. Lots of optimism for the secondary next year and in the future.
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  • Here's what I think it is. Honestly, I think that what's really been needed ... is for everyone out there to doubt these guys -- to say that they're washed up, no longer elite, etc. What's been missing (really ever since 2014) is that chip on the shoulder. These guys really haven't had that since losing the Super Bowl. Everyone has EXPECTED them to be good. I think they honestly need a lot of the experts and talking heads out there to start doubting them.

    Don't get me wrong, I think the addition of Byron Maxwell has been HUGE and has helped offset the loss of Sherman ... and the same thing can be said about McDougald in regards to Chancellor ... BUT, I'm honestly thinking that's the difference. They need everyone out there saying they CAN'T beat good teams anymore. Therefore, they will. This team NEEDS that chip on the shoulder. It's like having a hot looking muscle car ... but having no gasoline to actually run it. Last night, that chip on the shoulder was back. JMHO.
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  • Hawkscanner wrote:Here's what I think it is. Honestly, I think that what's really been needed ... is for everyone out there to doubt these guys -- to say that they're washed up, no longer elite, etc. What's been missing (really ever since 2014) is that chip on the shoulder. These guys really haven't had that since losing the Super Bowl. Everyone has EXPECTED them to be good. I think they honestly need a lot of the experts and talking heads out there to start doubting them.

    Don't get me wrong, I think the addition of Byron Maxwell has been HUGE and has helped offset the loss of Sherman ... and the same thing can be said about McDougald in regards to Chancellor ... BUT, I'm honestly thinking that's the difference. They need everyone out there saying they CAN'T beat good teams anymore. Therefore, they will. This team NEEDS that chip on the shoulder. It's like having a hot looking muscle car ... but having no gasoline to actually run it. Last night, that chip on the shoulder was back. JMHO.


    I agree. For as long as I can remember, Seahawks have always shown their greatness even more-so the exact second they're considered the underdogs and expected to lose. It's that fire that thrills me and makes me proud to be a fan. That electricity when they're playing their hearts out to prove everyone wrong is worth the near-heart-attack-games through the beginning of the season.
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  • jmahon316 wrote:
    Hawkscanner wrote:Here's what I think it is. Honestly, I think that what's really been needed ... is for everyone out there to doubt these guys -- to say that they're washed up, no longer elite, etc. What's been missing (really ever since 2014) is that chip on the shoulder. These guys really haven't had that since losing the Super Bowl. Everyone has EXPECTED them to be good. I think they honestly need a lot of the experts and talking heads out there to start doubting them.

    Don't get me wrong, I think the addition of Byron Maxwell has been HUGE and has helped offset the loss of Sherman ... and the same thing can be said about McDougald in regards to Chancellor ... BUT, I'm honestly thinking that's the difference. They need everyone out there saying they CAN'T beat good teams anymore. Therefore, they will. This team NEEDS that chip on the shoulder. It's like having a hot looking muscle car ... but having no gasoline to actually run it. Last night, that chip on the shoulder was back. JMHO.


    I agree. For as long as I can remember, Seahawks have always shown their greatness even more-so the exact second they're considered the underdogs and expected to lose. It's that fire that thrills me and makes me proud to be a fan. That electricity when they're playing their hearts out to prove everyone wrong is worth the near-heart-attack-games through the beginning of the season.


    Exactly. Honestly, I'm kind of wondering if we should stop praising these guys around here ... and start more of the "These Guys Suck!" threads. I'm thinking that kind of stuff ... that kind of doubt ... is their Tackling Fuel ...

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  • No one better than Sherm but depth at CB understated... Earl back there is ultimate piece... Kam is more missed solely from calling out roles and more importantly run stoppage


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  • The better question to ask is is this defense gonna play this way ON THE ROAD?
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  • If they were healthy, this defense could have been the all-time greatest. If took them a few games to hit their stride, but we are starting to see it come together, even without two of our best players. Credit to Pete Carroll, the players, and the rest of the coaches and front office for rolling with the punches.
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  • Obviously, they are not better. But Wyman made the point that Mcdougald is actually better in coverage than Kam at this point. Obviously he doesn't have the intimidation factor, but that was one hell of a pickup in the off season.
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  • Griffin has been burned more than a couple of times.

    They did pretty well Sunday night, and RS has lost a step, but we could really use them right now.
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