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LJ Collier

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LJ Collier
Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:31 am
  • If there is a season this year, what the hell do you want to see from this guy?

    I know it was said this guy had a great senior bowl where he was unblockable, but I didn't see anything worth having for a first round pick while he was at TCU.

    If he is supposed to play 5 tech, he did not showcase any speed/burst/explosion off the ball pass rushing and has very limited pass rush moves.

    This guy better up some good numbers or else he is a bust for a first round pick.

    You expect first round picks to be very solid contributors and this guy better do something cause his college film does not show him as anything special.
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Re: LJ Collier
Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:03 am
  • Anything would be an improvement from last season
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Re: LJ Collier
Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:07 am
  • He showed plenty at TCU. Dude manhandled people to notch an 18% pass rush win percentage. At 275+ pounds. That is insane for a power rusher.

    He is now 290 pounds. He isn't supposed to be a twitchy Brian Burns-type. The hope is he becomes an inside/out guy that can move around and collapse the pocket all over.

    2019 sucked, for sure, but I wanted him in the draft and it is too early to lose hope.

    Elite run defense and plus pass rush are achievable this season (if, if). Fingers crossed.

    His success is definitely critical to the success of the defense. Especially if Clowney isn't brought back.
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Re: LJ Collier
Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:50 pm
  • Covid isn't helping his development. I'm not expecting much.
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Re: LJ Collier
Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:05 pm
  • Is that true?

    Missed the Senior Bowl, so this is interesting.

    Was he really dominant then? Who did he square off against?

    (* Note, I put no stock in 'great senior bowl practices' but there have been plenty of NFL stars that were really first on the radar due to stellar Senior Bowl games. This gives me a little bit of hope. Can you share a bit more on his play in that game?)
    Last edited by TwistedHusky on Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LJ Collier
Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:03 pm
  • I feel his play could be very similar to Michael Bennett. Bennett didn’t light up the league in his first year either.
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Re: LJ Collier
Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:29 pm
  • I'm kind of looking at this year being rookie year #2 for Collier. And this rookie class as being one of the most important we've had in terms of needing for them to excel immediately.
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Re: LJ Collier
Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:51 pm
  • 29th overall pick ? This isn't good for the Hawks if he doesn't blossom the next time we see him play . IMO the Hawks should avoid 1st round picks altogether .
    xray
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Re: LJ Collier
Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:12 pm
  • I googled Senior Bowl winners expecting to come back here and say that performance in that game is overrated, but the first result was from last year’s game and had Deebo Samuel and Terry McLaurin as the biggest winners, so there goes the condescending post I wanted to make...
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Re: LJ Collier
Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:20 pm
  • Malik 2.0, minus the brain damage.
    DHawk
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Re: LJ Collier
Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:29 pm
  • Rat wrote:I googled Senior Bowl winners expecting to come back here and say that performance in that game is overrated, but the first result was from last year’s game and had Deebo Samuel and Terry McLaurin as the biggest winners, so there goes the condescending post I wanted to make...

    6:40 LJ Collier

    https://youtu.be/p2Soa5w8Mdc
    TheLegendOfBoom
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Re: LJ Collier
Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:56 pm
  • xray wrote:29th overall pick ? This isn't good for the Hawks if he doesn't blossom the next time we see him play . IMO the Hawks should avoid 1st round picks altogether .

    That’s likely why they try and trade out of the first round. Their 1st round talent evaluating skills need much improvement, and they know it.
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Re: LJ Collier
Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:03 pm
  • Not sure why the team can't pick a first round pick that can contribute in their first year.
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Re: LJ Collier
Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:21 pm
  • JayhawkMike wrote:Not sure why the team can't pick a first round pick that can contribute in their first year.

    The Seahawks entire scouting and talent evaluation department staff been horrible since Scot McLaughlin left.

    And their logic for drafting players of positional need (3-4 years down the road when they "need" them is rather questionable logic).

    First and second round players should have a skill set that can contribute immediately.

    Think about how bad Seattle's rookie class last year would have been without DK Metcalf?

    It is perplexing you lose one personnel (McLaughlin) and all of a sudden the talent evaluation becomes terrible.

    Why is Carroll keeping these guys around?
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Re: LJ Collier
Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:17 pm
  • Geez, tough crowd.

    Wasn't his ankle really messed up for most of the preseason/regular season? Let's give him a real chance, at least.
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Re: LJ Collier
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:12 pm
  • Bennett did do much the first season.


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Re: LJ Collier
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:17 am
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    JayhawkMike wrote:Not sure why the team can't pick a first round pick that can contribute in their first year.

    The Seahawks entire scouting and talent evaluation department staff been horrible since Scot McLaughlin left.

    And their logic for drafting players of positional need (3-4 years down the road when they "need" them is rather questionable logic).

    First and second round players should have a skill set that can contribute immediately.

    Think about how bad Seattle's rookie class last year would have been without DK Metcalf?

    It is perplexing you lose one personnel (McLaughlin) and all of a sudden the talent evaluation becomes terrible.

    Why is Carroll keeping these guys around?


    Scott McCloughan was a Seahawks scout all the way through to April 2014, which means his talent evaluation was responsible for the gamechanging 2013 and 2014 drafts as well.

    It's unsurprising that our 2010 and 2012 drafts were our best under Carroll and Schneider, given in 2009 and 2011 we did not make it to the playoffs, and so our average draft position was much higher.
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Re: LJ Collier
Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:57 am
  • Not expecting much, but hoping it clicks for him. Sometimes it takes awhile.

    With this front office's drafting history since about 2014 in place (way too many misses), it's hard to envision he will ever live up to his draft slot. They admittedly have a much different philosophy than other organizations, but it seems like they struggle greatly in the earlier rounds, which a few big exceptions.
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Re: LJ Collier
Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:24 am
  • I do not agree with the notion we should give up on making first round selections, despite our less than stellar record of success. Foregoing a pick at 28 (or whatever) in favor of picking at what may be the same 2nd rd position simply decreases the pool by another 30 of what figure to be the best players available. So NOW you in a better position to strike gold? That just makes no sense. To deal with repeated failure in first round picks you need to re-evaluate your evaluation process because that's the most likely source of the problem.
    With respect to Collier it seems fair to say he has yet to have a solid chance to show his worth. But with the PT opportunities posed in the upcoming season that part of the equation should be addressed so we'll have a better idea where he stands.
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Re: LJ Collier
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:04 am
  • Ankle hurt his progress/learning curve as a rookie. This year, without MC/TC, he may fall behind even more in his 2nd year.

    At this point, I think circumstances have kind of conspired against him. He wasn't out of the box ready, but has tools. Tools that really can translate from an interior rush perspective, so I'm glad he's put on weight. I always felt like he was more valuable to take a Geno Atkins route and play bigger on the interior than out on the edge.

    If there are games, I just hope he's not a healthy scratch this year. The loss of Jefferson without a replacement opens up opportunity for him. But at this stage, I'm going to reserve judgment until year three.
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Re: LJ Collier
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:25 am
  • I also have not written him off. However, when I see people argue that player X did not so well their rookie season and went on to be an all-pro I just chuckle because for every one of those there are hundreds that sucked as rookies and got cut.

    Being a healthy scratch later in the season means he wasn't good enough in Practice to earn a spot on the game day roster. Think of that. On one of the worst defensive lines in the league. And, unless I am mistaken he was being asked to play virtually the same role as he did in college. Yes there is a transition but its not like he switched from WR to DB. He has probably played the same position for 8-10 years.

    I hope he shows at least backup position abilities which would be disappointing based on draft position but at least he would be contributing slightly more than a practice squad player.
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Re: LJ Collier
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:27 am
  • Give the kid a chance, WAY too early to be acting like he's a bust.
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Re: LJ Collier
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:42 am
  • One reason I'm not super optimistic is his age. He didn't become a starter in college until his redshirt senior season. That would be age ~23 or so. So last year he was 24 on the Hawks basically.

    Guys just don't magically turn it on at age 25 usually.

    You generally know if a guy is a first round talent or not by age 20 or 21. They dominate in college and don't take years to become the starter.
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Re: LJ Collier
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:46 am
  • Teahawks wrote:One reason I'm not super optimistic is his age. He didn't become a starter in college until his redshirt senior season. That would be age ~23 or so. So last year he was 24 on the Hawks basically.

    Guys just don't magically turn it on at age 25 usually.

    You generally know if a guy is a first round talent or not by age 20 or 21. They dominate in college and don't take years to become the starter.


    Difference is Green is still very young so I have much higher hope Green breaks out this year than Collier will.
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Re: LJ Collier
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:58 am
  • JayhawkMike wrote:Not sure why the team can't pick a first round pick that can contribute in their first year.


    As said before,,,,,,,,,Scot McLaughlin. PC and JS have been riding the success of his coattails ever since.
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Re: LJ Collier
Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:01 pm
  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    JayhawkMike wrote:Not sure why the team can't pick a first round pick that can contribute in their first year.


    As said before,,,,,,,,,Scot McLaughlin. PC and JS have been riding the success of his coattails ever since.

    BS. It's because we've been picking in the bottom half of the first round since Pete and John have got here. When you're picking in the last 10-12 slots of the first round it's little better than 2 Rd picks as far as talent and readiness for prime time.

    It's not like we're bombing a lot of top 10 picks here.
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Re: LJ Collier
Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:03 pm
  • Collier is at best a second round grade. He needs time and unfortunately, isn't getting it again this year.
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Re: LJ Collier
Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:11 pm
  • It's still too soon to just give up on him IMHO.
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Re: LJ Collier
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:48 pm
  • sutz wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    JayhawkMike wrote:Not sure why the team can't pick a first round pick that can contribute in their first year.


    As said before,,,,,,,,,Scot McLaughlin. PC and JS have been riding the success of his coattails ever since.

    BS. It's because we've been picking in the bottom half of the first round since Pete and John have got here. When you're picking in the last 10-12 slots of the first round it's little better than 2 Rd picks as far as talent and readiness for prime time.

    It's not like we're bombing a lot of top 10 picks here.


    This^
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Re: LJ Collier
Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:07 pm
  • sutz wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    JayhawkMike wrote:Not sure why the team can't pick a first round pick that can contribute in their first year.


    As said before,,,,,,,,,Scot McLaughlin. PC and JS have been riding the success of his coattails ever since.

    BS. It's because we've been picking in the bottom half of the first round since Pete and John have got here. When you're picking in the last 10-12 slots of the first round it's little better than 2 Rd picks as far as talent and readiness for prime time.

    It's not like we're bombing a lot of top 10 picks here.

    Yes, BUT we've also passed on many talented players over the years in the first round of the draft. Lots of missed opportunity here. Now, they can't get it 100 percent of the time -- the draft is an educated guess at the end of the day. Unfortunately they haven't been right for quite some time here. They just don't understand value here, which is funny because in the second round they've gotten some real great value in Frank Clark and DK Metcalf.

    Now about Scott McLaughlin, do I think he played a part? Yes, he's had good success wherever he's gone. The biggest factor that aloud the Seahawks to build the teams we did in first half of the 2010s was largely due to inside information on Pete's end though. Many of the players that we drafted Carroll had actively recruited or played against at one time or another. Carroll also had a system that favored unique sets of characteristics. Big cornerbacks such as Browner, Sherman and safeties such as Kam Chancellor were considered just role players, but those are the types of players Pete pursued. This in turn meant that the Seahawks got insane value. Now the Seahawks defense has spread across the NFL and some of Carroll's schemes have been adapted by other teams. These players are harder to acquire than they were before.

    Carroll was able to take the NFL by surprise, and as a result we were able to build what may go down as the best overall team of the 2010s and certainly the best defense of the decade. Now I have been one of Pete's bigger detractors, but we really need to give credit where it is due. Carroll was the only guy that could have assembled that particular team.
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Re: LJ Collier
Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:46 pm
  • Wenhawk wrote:
    Teahawks wrote:One reason I'm not super optimistic is his age. He didn't become a starter in college until his redshirt senior season. That would be age ~23 or so. So last year he was 24 on the Hawks basically.

    Guys just don't magically turn it on at age 25 usually.

    You generally know if a guy is a first round talent or not by age 20 or 21. They dominate in college and don't take years to become the starter.


    Difference is Green is still very young so I have much higher hope Green breaks out this year than Collier will.



    This is exactly what I am hoping for too. Green should be able to get more snaps or develop into an inside rusher if Irvin and others are on the edge.


    Nascar package of Collier and Green on the inside, and Irvin and Mayowa on the outside?
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Re: LJ Collier
Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:09 pm
  • Teahawks wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:
    Teahawks wrote:One reason I'm not super optimistic is his age. He didn't become a starter in college until his redshirt senior season. That would be age ~23 or so. So last year he was 24 on the Hawks basically.

    Guys just don't magically turn it on at age 25 usually.

    You generally know if a guy is a first round talent or not by age 20 or 21. They dominate in college and don't take years to become the starter.


    Difference is Green is still very young so I have much higher hope Green breaks out this year than Collier will.



    This is exactly what I am hoping for too. Green should be able to get more snaps or develop into an inside rusher if Irvin and others are on the edge.


    Nascar package of Collier and Green on the inside, and Irvin and Mayowa on the outside?

    Green and Ford has some promise. I hope it turns out they can produce and Carroll looks like a genius.

    This isn’t the 2013 defense anymore!
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Re: LJ Collier
Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:53 pm
  • sutz wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    JayhawkMike wrote:Not sure why the team can't pick a first round pick that can contribute in their first year.


    As said before,,,,,,,,,Scot McLaughlin. PC and JS have been riding the success of his coattails ever since.

    BS. It's because we've been picking in the bottom half of the first round since Pete and John have got here. When you're picking in the last 10-12 slots of the first round it's little better than 2 Rd picks as far as talent and readiness for prime time.

    It's not like we're bombing a lot of top 10 picks here.


    They really havent had a decent draft since 2012. 2015 was alright I guess. Sorry, I think JS and Pete are criminally overrated when it comes to drafting.
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Re: LJ Collier
Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:47 am
  • Man it would be awesome if Collier just wrecks havoc this year and becomes a top 5 DE by the end of the year.
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Re: LJ Collier
Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:19 pm
  • hawks85 wrote:Man it would be awesome if Collier just wrecks havoc this year and becomes a top 5 DE by the end of the year.


    Yes, and it would also be awesome if a naked supermodel fell into my lap with 100 boxes of 3xl condoms, $10 million in cash, the keys to Knight Rider and 4 of her closest supermodel friends in an exclusive island resort. You keep dreaming. I’m going to go make it happen. :D
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Re: LJ Collier
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:41 am
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:If there is a season this year, what the hell do you want to see from this guy?

    I know it was said this guy had a great senior bowl where he was unblockable, but I didn't see anything worth having for a first round pick while he was at TCU.

    If he is supposed to play 5 tech, he did not showcase any speed/burst/explosion off the ball pass rushing and has very limited pass rush moves.

    This guy better up some good numbers or else he is a bust for a first round pick.

    You expect first round picks to be very solid contributors and this guy better do something cause his college film does not show him as anything special.


    A more productive season is needed no doubt concerining that. However it is not unusual for a first round pick to struggle considering how much training camp he missed along with the injuries. We will see.

    By the way the NFL draft is by far the most important in sports. The NBA draft is laughable as normally there are only less than ten players who will have an entire career with a team. I am being generous with that assessment. Baseball players normally have to spend time in the minor leagues and Hockey I do not follow not sure how that goes. The NFL draft truly is the best for following a draft pick's development.
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Re: LJ Collier
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:12 pm
  • Difference between Senior Bowl video and LJ`s regular season efforts is explosion. That ankle injury was supposed to be bad, and would have explained the lack of explosiveness that we remember. Here's to an improved season.
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Re: LJ Collier
Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:52 am
  • hawkfan68 wrote:I feel his play could be very similar to Michael Bennett. Bennett didn’t light up the league in his first year either.


    They need to move him inside and put him in that role.
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Re: LJ Collier
Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:38 am
  • DHawk wrote:Malik 2.0, minus the brain damage.
    Disagree. Malik has more talent, athleticism and higher ceiling.


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Re: LJ Collier
Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:26 pm
  • By the time his ankle healed up he was out of game shape. I’m sure we’ll see an improved player this year. Too early to write him off as a bust.
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