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John and Pete are losing me

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John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:48 pm
  • They have put a TON of resources into rebuilding the safety positions. A ton. From drafting a*hole like Tedric Thompson and DeLano Hill, to now what seems like wasting a valuable 2nd round pick a year ago on Marquise Blair. They signed McDougald. They traded for Diggs the same year they drafted Blair. Now giving up way too much for a malcontent in Jamal Adams.

    They make ridiculous trades seemingly every year, attempting to land a star and giving up hot draft capital in the process. They often times fail to give said player a long term deal, and end up losing them in free agency, leaving them empty handed after a one year rental. When they have extended said player, their tenure only lasts no more than two seasons.

    Cowherd was right. This FO terrible. They can't draft. They can't trade. They can't develop. They are just riding their own coattails on their 3 amazing drafts from forever ago. This organization needs a reboot, starting at the top.

    I know I have been on a tear lately. Pissing and moaning about The hockey team, and about the Mariners, and now about the Seahawks. But dammit, we deserve better from all parties.
    Thepeelsessions
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:55 pm
  • You want me to send you a 9ers Jersey?
    pmedic920
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:56 pm
  • Great get imo for Adams.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:56 pm
  • Let's see if you are still crying few games into the season. Calm your ass down. We will be ok.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:58 pm
  • pmedic920 wrote:You want me to send you a 9ers Jersey?

    Rams Kupp jersey if you can.
    Thepeelsessions
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:00 pm
  • Thepeelsessions wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:You want me to send you a 9ers Jersey?

    Rams Kupp jersey if you can.



    Send me your Seahawk “12” card, and I’ll get working on it.
    pmedic920
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:07 pm
  • They spent more into the secondary this year than the past 2 years on the O-Line. Hey Russ, have fun this year bro!
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:14 pm
  • jamescasey1124 wrote:Let's see if you are still crying few games into the season. Calm your ass down. We will be ok.



    really who is rushing the passer?

    who is keeping Wilson on his feet?

    sorry we have 2 HUGE wholes that remain and o sign of them getting filled.
    John63
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:16 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:Let's see if you are still crying few games into the season. Calm your ass down. We will be ok.



    really who is rushing the passer?

    who is keeping Wilson on his feet?

    sorry we have 2 HUGE wholes that remain and o sign of them getting filled.



    We also don’t have Cable, it’s gunna be OK.
    pmedic920
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:17 pm
  • Thepeelsessions wrote:They have put a TON of resources into rebuilding the safety positions. A ton. From drafting a*hole like Tedric Thompson and DeLano Hill, to now what seems like wasting a valuable 2nd round pick a year ago on Marquise Blair. They signed McDougald. They traded for Diggs the same year they drafted Blair. Now giving up way too much for a malcontent in Jamal Adams.

    They make ridiculous trades seemingly every year, attempting to land a star and giving up hot draft capital in the process. They often times fail to give said player a long term deal, and end up losing them in free agency, leaving them empty handed after a one year rental. When they have extended said player, their tenure only lasts no more than two seasons.

    Cowherd was right. This FO terrible. They can't draft. They can't trade. They can't develop. They are just riding their own coattails on their 3 amazing drafts from forever ago. This organization needs a reboot, starting at the top.

    I know I have been on a tear lately. Pissing and moaning about The hockey team, and about the Mariners, and now about the Seahawks. But dammit, we deserve better from all parties.



    Did you expect anything different

    they have been supposedly trying to fix the oline for 6 years, did you expect the defense to be any different. PC no longer has the advantage of knowing the draftees like he did in 2011-2013.

    And he refuses to change to suite what he has.

    Worse as long as he has Wilson he will get into the playoffs and once again bow out in the 2nd round, when he waits tolong to let Wilson loose....again.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:09 pm
  • John63 wrote:really who is rushing the passer?

    At this point it seems safe to say that they diagnosed our sack problem as being heavily coverage related. Adding Diggs mid-season, and now Dunbar (which may not work) and then a mega deal for Jamal Adams. That approach fits the GB film where Rodgers was getting the ball out almost immediately. It also fits some of the quant thinking on value - burke had a good writeup last month and even PFF is starting to look at coverage as a defining factor.

    thepeelsessions wrote:They have put a TON of resources into rebuilding the safety positions.... Now giving up way too much for a malcontent in Jamal Adams.

    Our previous moves at safety are a sunk cost. Whether this particular trade works out or not, it is a good thing when a front office avoids the sunk cost fallacy and makes the best moves they can going forwards without worrying about how it will make them look. It's also a sign of good ownership to let the front office have the freedom not to be constantly looking over their shoulders.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:17 pm
  • Rather it be a stud safety than a DL.

    If your guy cannot rush the passer, then you better have someone that can play the pass well. Adams fits that.

    Also, didn't Adams have more sacks last year than any of our players?
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:46 pm
  • According to PFF we already had the top LB core. Now we have arguably the top DB group. I get the cost was steep, but with the way things are this offseason, win now is the only way to go. Pete has maybe 2-5 years left. He wants another title.

    Also Clowney isn't getting what he wants, I won't be shocked when he resigns a 1 year deal with Seattle. If taking a bottom 5 D in 2018, and building it back up to a top 5 D in 2 years doesn't get you excited. Then I'm not sure what to tell you.

    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-linebacker ... nfl-season
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:00 pm
  • The Seahawks ranked #24 in the NFL in pass defense. The pass defense was a major problem why the defense was bad. Thus get the resources there to upgrade. To upgrade players on the DL will cost about $15-20M a year. They could upgrade the secondary for less. Plus they now have Irvin and Mayowa. If they had Irvin and Mayowa last season with Clowney, the pass rush wouldn't have been an issue. They had no supporting cast around Clowney and this his game suffered along with pass rush. Secondary was terrible to boot. Diggs helped toward the end but little too late. This season the secondary is a strength and the pass rush could be better because of it.

    https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-passing-yards-per-game
    hawkfan68
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:02 pm
  • Thepeelsessions wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:You want me to send you a 9ers Jersey?

    Rams Kupp jersey if you can.


    Get out!!
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:06 pm
  • All great but not going to matter if we don't play aggressive on offense
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:21 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:Let's see if you are still crying few games into the season. Calm your ass down. We will be ok.



    really who is rushing the passer?

    who is keeping Wilson on his feet?

    sorry we have 2 HUGE wholes that remain and o sign of them getting filled.


    Um...the guys we have! I absolutely hate when people just assume a team has no talent because they haven't heard of these people before or think they just suck. Let's see if Taylor, Robinson, Green and Collier can get it done. As far as our line...who cares. Russ has been running his hole career. Literally has made a living of it and is the best at not getting hit or sliding. What are you crying about?

    We just landed a guy who puts our defense back in the top ten. Now just let russ go to work.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:32 pm
  • I wonder what I can find on Netflix tonite . :snack:
    xray
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:54 pm
  • Question after 2 years passes, how much are we paying Adams? Because they could had re-signed Earl. And what if Adams demands for a new contract next season and decides to sit out, and did what Earl did.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:59 pm
  • When it comes to cap issues, assuming if they do give Adams a big deal it's 2021 and beyond that the cap number is high, I am thinking this is definitely KJ Wright's last year. I hate to say it but is Bobby looking at only 1 or 2 more years?
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:05 pm
  • HawkRiderFan wrote:When it comes to cap issues, assuming if they do give Adams a big deal it's 2021 and beyond that the cap number is high, I am thinking this is definitely KJ Wright's last year. I hate to say it but is Bobby looking at only 1 or 2 more years?



    Ok, but JA is gonna want at least 18mill per season.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:13 pm
  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:Let's see if you are still crying few games into the season. Calm your ass down. We will be ok.



    really who is rushing the passer?

    who is keeping Wilson on his feet?

    sorry we have 2 HUGE wholes that remain and o sign of them getting filled.


    Um...the guys we have! I absolutely hate when people just assume a team has no talent because they haven't heard of these people before or think they just suck. Let's see if Taylor, Robinson, Green and Collier can get it done. As far as our line...who cares. Russ has been running his hole career. Literally has made a living of it and is the best at not getting hit or sliding. What are you crying about?

    We just landed a guy who puts our defense back in the top ten. Now just let russ go to work.

    You're putting a lot of faith in players that haven't proven a single thing in the NFL at a position that Carroll has been trying to fill for years at no avail. Seattle under Carroll has a very poor record of developing their own pass rushers and D-Lineman. Frank Clark and Bruce Irvin are the only notable examples. Clark is a good pass rusher and Irvin is serviceable but nothing great. Irvin's main party trick is the fact he can flex to many positions and is a solid tackler. Very versatile player that can do a little of everything but isn't great at anything. He's never been a top end pass rusher, just an alright pass rusher. He's done most of his work in the NFL as OLB as well.

    Most of our pass notable pass rushers have come from the free agency or trades. Avril, Bennett, Clemons, Brock, and Clowney. At this point I have zero faith in the Seahawks FO when it comes to developing pass rushers and D-Lineman. We've allocated a lot of resources there to no avail. I really wish we would have spent that draft capital on a blue chip pass rusher or disruptive DT.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:16 pm
  • John,

    You are correct.

    We COULD be running an amazing offense. And not doing it has held us back.

    But,

    Expecting Pete to change this long into it? Just because we had to? That was a set up for disappointment. While people can change - they generally don't. Expecting an over 70 year old coach to change? Folly.

    That is why I don't see how you cannot see how important this move was?

    It literally turned our greatest weakness into one of our strengths.

    Pete coaches as if he has great players at certain positions. Whether he has those players or not. Well now he has those players.

    Our weakness was that he was going to lean on our defense and specifically the secondary, whether we were #5th ranked or 25th ranked. He was going to win with that strategy and we did not have the horses for it until now.

    Pete can coach the way he wants and it is no longer going to be the thing that holds us back. This is huge.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:26 pm
  • Some people are just fans of players more then the team. They want their player to be the reason the team won. I just want the team to win. This cornerback crew and safety crew is going to be top notch.
    Shanegotyou11
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:37 pm
  • The smart play would be trading Bobby Wagner while he still holds some value. BBK is much faster and can handle the situation at MLBer. Wags is on the back side of a great career and will only deteriorate from here on. Its a tough call to put a great ol war horse down, but now is the time to let wags go, maybe a third round pick. Its a sad thought but its time before the career ending injury hits us. Thank you Bobby for all the great memorys.

    Cheers
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:12 pm
  • poly1274 wrote:Question after 2 years passes, how much are we paying Adams? Because they could had re-signed Earl. And what if Adams demands for a new contract next season and decides to sit out, and did what Earl did.


    The difference is, First we knew Earl to be a mal content and had made his views pretty obvious. 2nd, Adams is a lot younger and worth the future investment, where as Earl. who relying on twilight speed was not.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:18 pm
  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:Let's see if you are still crying few games into the season. Calm your ass down. We will be ok.



    really who is rushing the passer?

    who is keeping Wilson on his feet?

    sorry we have 2 HUGE wholes that remain and o sign of them getting filled.


    Um...the guys we have! I absolutely hate when people just assume a team has no talent because they haven't heard of these people before or think they just suck. Let's see if Taylor, Robinson, Green and Collier can get it done. As far as our line...who cares. Russ has been running his hole career. Literally has made a living of it and is the best at not getting hit or sliding. What are you crying about?

    We just landed a guy who puts our defense back in the top ten. . As far as our line...who cares



    ". As far as our line...who cares" and there is the problem, you like PC will wait till the gets hurt before you say maybe we should fix it. FYI there is nothing any of those people have done that proves they can get anything done,

    Then this ". As far as our line...who cares" problem is we don't do that till we have no choice. So again sorry great guy, great player, we paid to much and still have huge holes. This move will make PC feel like he can go even more conservative, which means take the ball out of Wilson's hands even more.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:20 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:Let's see if you are still crying few games into the season. Calm your ass down. We will be ok.



    really who is rushing the passer?

    who is keeping Wilson on his feet?

    sorry we have 2 HUGE wholes that remain and o sign of them getting filled.


    Um...the guys we have! I absolutely hate when people just assume a team has no talent because they haven't heard of these people before or think they just suck. Let's see if Taylor, Robinson, Green and Collier can get it done. As far as our line...who cares. Russ has been running his hole career. Literally has made a living of it and is the best at not getting hit or sliding. What are you crying about?

    We just landed a guy who puts our defense back in the top ten. Now just let russ go to work.

    You're putting a lot of faith in players that haven't proven a single thing in the NFL at a position that Carroll has been trying to fill for years at no avail. Seattle under Carroll has a very poor record of developing their own pass rushers and D-Lineman. Frank Clark and Bruce Irvin are the only notable examples. Clark is a good pass rusher and Irvin is serviceable but nothing great. Irvin's main party trick is the fact he can flex to many positions and is a solid tackler. Very versatile player that can do a little of everything but isn't great at anything. He's never been a top end pass rusher, just an alright pass rusher. He's done most of his work in the NFL as OLB as well.

    Most of our pass notable pass rushers have come from the free agency or trades. Avril, Bennett, Clemons, Brock, and Clowney. At this point I have zero faith in the Seahawks FO when it comes to developing pass rushers and D-Lineman. We've allocated a lot of resources there to no avail. I really wish we would have spent that draft capital on a blue chip pass rusher or disruptive DT.



    or pass blockers avg pass blocking rank since 2012 28th
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:22 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:John,

    You are correct.

    We COULD be running an amazing offense. And not doing it has held us back.

    But,

    Expecting Pete to change this long into it? Just because we had to? That was a set up for disappointment. While people can change - they generally don't. Expecting an over 70 year old coach to change? Folly.

    That is why I don't see how you cannot see how important this move was?

    It literally turned our greatest weakness into one of our strengths.

    Pete coaches as if he has great players at certain positions. Whether he has those players or not. Well now he has those players.

    Our weakness was that he was going to lean on our defense and specifically the secondary, whether we were #5th ranked or 25th ranked. He was going to win with that strategy and we did not have the horses for it until now.

    Pete can coach the way he wants and it is no longer going to be the thing that holds us back. This is huge.



    I agree with most of what you say this is a fail on PC. Good coaches play a system for what he has. That said he does not have the people he wants as his dline is still bad, as is his oline.

    The question is just because we know he will not change and as a result we will never get back to the SB do we just stay silent or continue to voice our stance. I will voice.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:26 pm
  • Shanegotyou11 wrote:Some people are just fans of players more then the team. They want their player to be the reason the team won. I just want the team to win. This cornerback crew and safety crew is going to be top notch.



    and some of us see the players as a means to winning. Yes the LB and DB will be great but the dline will be awful, as is the oline and the system being run.


    The relaity is our best chance ot win is to protect Wilson and let him do what he does. this puts pressure on their offense making them take chances with what should be a really good LB and DB crew that goes to our advantage, Playing a slow run at all cost take the clock down on every play helps the other team. They know when we will snap it, and they dont have to take chances while our defense cannot afford any mistakes.


    While our DB and LB might be LOD level our dline is not even close.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:11 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:Let's see if you are still crying few games into the season. Calm your ass down. We will be ok.



    really who is rushing the passer?

    who is keeping Wilson on his feet?

    sorry we have 2 HUGE wholes that remain and o sign of them getting filled.


    Um...the guys we have! I absolutely hate when people just assume a team has no talent because they haven't heard of these people before or think they just suck. Let's see if Taylor, Robinson, Green and Collier can get it done. As far as our line...who cares. Russ has been running his hole career. Literally has made a living of it and is the best at not getting hit or sliding. What are you crying about?

    We just landed a guy who puts our defense back in the top ten. Now just let russ go to work.

    You're putting a lot of faith in players that haven't proven a single thing in the NFL at a position that Carroll has been trying to fill for years at no avail. Seattle under Carroll has a very poor record of developing their own pass rushers and D-Lineman. Frank Clark and Bruce Irvin are the only notable examples. Clark is a good pass rusher and Irvin is serviceable but nothing great. Irvin's main party trick is the fact he can flex to many positions and is a solid tackler. Very versatile player that can do a little of everything but isn't great at anything. He's never been a top end pass rusher, just an alright pass rusher. He's done most of his work in the NFL as OLB as well.

    Most of our pass notable pass rushers have come from the free agency or trades. Avril, Bennett, Clemons, Brock, and Clowney. At this point I have zero faith in the Seahawks FO when it comes to developing pass rushers and D-Lineman. We've allocated a lot of resources there to no avail. I really wish we would have spent that draft capital on a blue chip pass rusher or disruptive DT.


    I'm putting faith in them because I look at the team as a whole. Not just individual positions all the time. We are very close to being a superbowl team again if not this year anyway. You have no idea what the oline or dline will do. Your just assuming they wont be good. Dont forget half of the oline a dline are new players. They made changes. Plus, all those players you named werent good until they got here. Aside maybe Clowney who hasnt lived up to be a 1 overall. Avril was ok with the lions. Bennett no one even heard of until he got here. Clemons didnt do crap on the jags and brock was just freenys running mate. You will see. Relax.
    jamescasey1124
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:27 pm
  • Imagine the speed of both Brooks and Adams rushing the passer this season.

    Pete and John are once again creating a faster, stronger team.

    I'm in.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:20 pm
  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    John63 wrote:

    really who is rushing the passer?

    who is keeping Wilson on his feet?

    sorry we have 2 HUGE wholes that remain and o sign of them getting filled.


    Um...the guys we have! I absolutely hate when people just assume a team has no talent because they haven't heard of these people before or think they just suck. Let's see if Taylor, Robinson, Green and Collier can get it done. As far as our line...who cares. Russ has been running his hole career. Literally has made a living of it and is the best at not getting hit or sliding. What are you crying about?

    We just landed a guy who puts our defense back in the top ten. Now just let russ go to work.

    You're putting a lot of faith in players that haven't proven a single thing in the NFL at a position that Carroll has been trying to fill for years at no avail. Seattle under Carroll has a very poor record of developing their own pass rushers and D-Lineman. Frank Clark and Bruce Irvin are the only notable examples. Clark is a good pass rusher and Irvin is serviceable but nothing great. Irvin's main party trick is the fact he can flex to many positions and is a solid tackler. Very versatile player that can do a little of everything but isn't great at anything. He's never been a top end pass rusher, just an alright pass rusher. He's done most of his work in the NFL as OLB as well.

    Most of our pass notable pass rushers have come from the free agency or trades. Avril, Bennett, Clemons, Brock, and Clowney. At this point I have zero faith in the Seahawks FO when it comes to developing pass rushers and D-Lineman. We've allocated a lot of resources there to no avail. I really wish we would have spent that draft capital on a blue chip pass rusher or disruptive DT.


    I'm putting faith in them because I look at the team as a whole. Not just individual positions all the time. We are very close to being a superbowl team again if not this year anyway. You have no idea what the oline or dline will do. Your just assuming they wont be good. Dont forget half of the oline a dline are new players. They made changes. Plus, all those players you named werent good until they got here. Aside maybe Clowney who hasnt lived up to be a 1 overall. Avril was ok with the lions. Bennett no one even heard of until he got here. Clemons didnt do crap on the jags and brock was just freenys running mate. You will see. Relax.



    Not assuming at all. Looking at what we added and what they did last year we are a bottom qt defense. Looking at what the new lineman have done we are still a bottom 5 pass blocking team. I mean i am glad you have hope. But think the fact you have to go back to avril for your example should tell you something
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:21 pm
  • Ad Hawk wrote:Imagine the speed of both Brooks and Adams rushing the passer this season.

    Pete and John are once again creating a faster, stronger team.

    I'm in.



    Lol thanks for the laugh.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:32 pm
  • If we are sending Safeties and LB's routinely on blitz packages then we are changing the defense up. I still feel they have one or two moves they want to pull off yet.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:46 pm
  • Thepeelsessions wrote:They have put a TON of resources into rebuilding the safety positions. A ton. From drafting a*hole like Tedric Thompson and DeLano Hill, to now what seems like wasting a valuable 2nd round pick a year ago on Marquise Blair. They signed McDougald. They traded for Diggs the same year they drafted Blair. Now giving up way too much for a malcontent in Jamal Adams.

    They make ridiculous trades seemingly every year, attempting to land a star and giving up hot draft capital in the process. They often times fail to give said player a long term deal, and end up losing them in free agency, leaving them empty handed after a one year rental. When they have extended said player, their tenure only lasts no more than two seasons.

    Cowherd was right. This FO terrible. They can't draft. They can't trade. They can't develop. They are just riding their own coattails on their 3 amazing drafts from forever ago. This organization needs a reboot, starting at the top.

    I know I have been on a tear lately. Pissing and moaning about The hockey team, and about the Mariners, and now about the Seahawks. But dammit, we deserve better from all parties.

    Obviously, what else can they do?

    You’re right!

    They can’t draft anymore.

    So they might as well go all in for an All-Pro player twice in the three years he has played in this league.

    Yes, they gave up a lot of capital but it’s like you said, who cares when Seattle can’t draft at all!

    Carroll is old. Real old. I don’t think he cares what Seattle gave up. Carroll is most likely going to retire soon.

    Might as well go out guns blazing!!!

    Adams is a top 5 defensive player in this league.

    Players of that caliber do not grow on trees and aren’t available to every team during a draft.

    Carroll thought he can help this defense and yes Adams does.

    Adams will play closer to the second level as Kam Chancellor did and he will have the assignment of defending George Kittle.

    No one else on Seattle’s defense is of the caliber to stop Kittle.

    You give up a lot but Seattle’s secondary is A LOT BETTER!

    I am excited! Real excited!

    Our draft picks in the first round are terrible anyways and have not paid dividends at all!
    TheLegendOfBoom
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:42 am
  • They gave up to much for a strong safety; no matter how good.
    Geologic
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:41 am
  • AgentDib wrote:
    John63 wrote:really who is rushing the passer?

    At this point it seems safe to say that they diagnosed our sack problem as being heavily coverage related. Adding Diggs mid-season, and now Dunbar (which may not work) and then a mega deal for Jamal Adams. That approach fits the GB film where Rodgers was getting the ball out almost immediately. It also fits some of the quant thinking on value - burke had a good writeup last month and even PFF is starting to look at coverage as a defining factor.

    thepeelsessions wrote:They have put a TON of resources into rebuilding the safety positions.... Now giving up way too much for a malcontent in Jamal Adams.

    Our previous moves at safety are a sunk cost. Whether this particular trade works out or not, it is a good thing when a front office avoids the sunk cost fallacy and makes the best moves they can going forwards without worrying about how it will make them look. It's also a sign of good ownership to let the front office have the freedom not to be constantly looking over their shoulders.


    Brilliant stuff. Thanks for sharing! I'm sure you're right that Pete, John, & co. did the film study and reached precisely that conclusion. I hadn't thought of it that way, but it's one of those things that almost seems obvious, after being pointed out. It certainly explains their behavior. This was a much better way to use team draft capital than Yannick Ngohyeahwhateverhisnameis. Plus we still have a shot at getting Clowney back; this move might actually improve that chance.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:47 am
  • Oh look, another Niners fan posing as a Hawks fan......
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:42 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Also, didn't Adams have more sacks last year than any of our players?



    Because our DL was league-worst. If it stays that way, Adams isn't going to help it. We need something on the order of 20 additional sacks, not 6.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:06 am
  • If John and Pete can now find a way to get Clowney back on board I'll be right back to my usual John and Pete lovin self.
    Appyhawk
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:03 am
  • One small point, a 1st this year is probably not the same as a 1st any other year.

    So realistically we probably traded 1.5 1sts instead of 2. Because a 1st this year is worth maybe half a normal year.

    Why?

    Because they will not be able to properly evaluate 1sts this next draft. Competition will be constrained. Opportunities to bring kids in and work them out will probably be less. Some of the guys would have normally risen to the top in a typical year won't.

    There is going to be more uncertainty this year than any other. And, for the most part, 1sts come at a premium because there is LESS uncertainty with them. Why not trade a 1st with the premium bolted in, because you are getting that uncertainty regardless.

    (BTW if the season gets cancelled, anyone know what happens? Do the Bengals just get another #1 overall pick? Something else? Anyone know?)

    There are going to be a greater # of 1sts that would have slid, because GMs are going to be stuck looking at pedigree and optics instead of on-field productions (since those will be skewed). A fair number of 1sts would have likely been lower round picks anyway. Might as well trade out of that for an almost sure thing with an All-Pro.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:05 am
  • Very good points ^
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:22 am
  • I think two things are going on here;

    1. I think John and Pete see their marriage as maybe another 3-5 years at most, combine that with Russell's window of being an elite QB and I think they both see a sense of urgency to win, and win NOW.

    2. Covid. With the college season being up in the air, or even fully cancelled come fall, Pete and John see 1st round picks as DRASTICALLY discounted for the next year or two because there's just no way there's going to be enough tape and games to properly evaluate and scout.

    So their reasoning on this trade is we have a chance to get an elite top 10 league talent for two devalued first rounders in order to stack this team as much as possible to win now.

    I'm OK with that reasoning.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:46 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:I think two things are going on here;

    1. I think John and Pete see their marriage as maybe another 3-5 years at most, combine that with Russell's window of being an elite QB and I think they both see a sense of urgency to win, and win NOW.

    2. Covid. With the college season being up in the air, or even fully cancelled come fall, Pete and John see 1st round picks as DRASTICALLY discounted for the next year or two because there's just no way there's going to be enough tape and games to properly evaluate and scout.

    So their reasoning on this trade is we have a chance to get an elite top 10 league talent for two devalued first rounders in order to stack this team as much as possible to win now.

    I'm OK with that reasoning.

    Totally agree.

    Who cares about the first round pick next year if college football is cancelled?

    Scouting will be pointless for next year.
    TheLegendOfBoom
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:06 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:I think two things are going on here;

    1. I think John and Pete see their marriage as maybe another 3-5 years at most, combine that with Russell's window of being an elite QB and I think they both see a sense of urgency to win, and win NOW.

    2. Covid. With the college season being up in the air, or even fully cancelled come fall, Pete and John see 1st round picks as DRASTICALLY discounted for the next year or two because there's just no way there's going to be enough tape and games to properly evaluate and scout.

    So their reasoning on this trade is we have a chance to get an elite top 10 league talent for two devalued first rounders in order to stack this team as much as possible to win now.

    I'm OK with that reasoning.

    Totally agree.

    Who cares about the first round pick next year if college football is cancelled?

    Scouting will be pointless for next year.


    Legacy draft value charts can be moved to the archives and placed on the that's the way it was shelf.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:31 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:I think two things are going on here;

    1. I think John and Pete see their marriage as maybe another 3-5 years at most, combine that with Russell's window of being an elite QB and I think they both see a sense of urgency to win, and win NOW.

    2. Covid. With the college season being up in the air, or even fully cancelled come fall, Pete and John see 1st round picks as DRASTICALLY discounted for the next year or two because there's just no way there's going to be enough tape and games to properly evaluate and scout.

    So their reasoning on this trade is we have a chance to get an elite top 10 league talent for two devalued first rounders in order to stack this team as much as possible to win now.

    I'm OK with that reasoning.



    There is actually a quote from JS being interviewed by Peter King about the trade. Peter King asks him toward the end of the interview about college football and the draft next year. Peter mentions no gm has been able to give him an answer on what they'll do if college is played in the spring. JS immediately says "I don't know, trade your 1st and 3rd that year?"

    If ya'll don't think that this is our FO playing chess when everyone else is playing checkers you aren't paying attention.

    On top of that, if we just went value to value, the 6th pick of the draft this year with a high 4th rounder the next year is worth the same or more as a late 1st and 3rd this year, and a late 1st next year (at least according to the draft points chart). Obviously that isn't to say that Adams is a current draft pick, but one could make the argument he is more valuable because the 6th pick of the draft could still flop (anyone for Curry?) AND he's a two time pro bowler, 2019 #37 and 2020 #27 top 100 player, and an all pro at age 24. He can rush the passer VERY well, can cover well, tackles well, has an insane football IQ, diagnoses plays as fast as Bobby/Earl, and he's a dog who is going to elevate the players around him.

    How anyone looks at this trade and thinks the Seahawks got shafted or were dumb is baffling to me. It's like you're just not paying attention to the times we are in right now and the uncertainty of ANY draft coming up.

    I'll say it again, the Hawks are playing Chess while everyone else is playing Checkers and a lot of naysayers on this board are getting check mated wondering why the king can move onto both colored squares.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:35 am
  • I was initially shocked at the price but after listening to JS talk about it on Peter Kings pod it makes complete sense. This allows them to go back to playing multiple schemes, helps the pass rush, allows Diggs to do what he does best and will add 5-10 sacks to the line because coverage will hold longer. What is being overlooked is that if helps the dline. When you’re picking at the bottom of the first for 7-8 years in a row it’s hard to get elite game changing talent and you need it. Adams instantly makes this defense instantly much, much better.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:31 am
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Also, didn't Adams have more sacks last year than any of our players?



    Because our DL was league-worst. If it stays that way, Adams isn't going to help it. We need something on the order of 20 additional sacks, not 6.


    2 things here:

    His ability in coverage will lead to more sacks.

    The increase in short passing routes and LOS patterns across the league make sack totals a little irrelevant compared to the past.

    Doesn't make it a good/great trade, but it does address specific needs.

    Personally, I like the trade, similar to what Austin said above.
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Re: John and Pete are losing me
Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:53 am
  • What a load of negativity the usual posters are offloading in this thread.

    To me it's clear the team has wanted to find replacements for aging and injured safeties and have been for the most part unsuccessful. They have drafted players with potential but with perhaps insufficient playing foot speed and their rookies have not developed as expected. Cedric Thompson was an instinctively solid DB but was too slow, as well it's clear that Lano Hill is also too slow to be as effective as desired. Were those picks fails? Perhaps they were, but they were part of a determined attempt to find the guys they want to play the scheme they want to play. I remain curious about Blair who has potential but poor discipline and needs to be more disciplined in his coverage or he too will be potentially regarded as a draft mistake. Acquiring a legitimate All Pro S is something they believed they needed to do, it's OK to disagree but an honest assessment would reveal the dropoff in defensive performance is directly related to the dropoff in S play. Adams is just 24 and has been a Pro Bowl player for 2 of 3 seasons in the league, he to them is a keystone piece that allows the team to return to defensive superiority. I think he was an expensive addition but let's assess what the costs would have been to trade up for a player that wasn't as yet proven as Adams certainly has demonstrated? I like the trade, but would still like to see some DLine additions.

    The only genuine mistake in drafting they've made was McDowell, and that was for pure character reasons. They clearly should have been alert to the potential of 'issues' arising from his character but could never have anticipated he'd never play a down because of a career ending head injury caused by his own patent stupidity. At present I doubt that it is remotely fair to write off Collier just yet and am happily encouraged by their draft picks this season. it's easy to throw rocks and reflect back upon shoulda, woulda, coulda type thinking but this year's player voted top 100 shows the present team with 6 top 100 players in their starting group.

    To me this FO is still doing their job better than has ever been done here before. They field a competitive squad every season that annually makes the playoffs. They have corrected a cap crunch that could have been limiting going forward. They have a franchise QB, MLB, & SS, a quality LT, and FS, potentially 3 good CBs, a strong running RB corps, at least two very good WRs with the possibility of more. Their TE group is one with a lot of potential that could be exceptional. They have the cap space to still make moves if deemed necessary. We will see if those moves are needed or if their younger players can show improvement.

    It's easy to be critical when you are watching, and perhaps are biased by mediots who pretend to know more than two proven personnel managers and a quality coaching staff. Look at their result and compare to those team around the league that are not always drafting 24th or worse each season. The FO is doing a darn good job to my mind.
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