FLYNN AND WILSON

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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:02 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:People keep saying this and miss the point why people say trading him shouldn't be ruled out.

    If we can move him, you're saving around $7m in cap room in 2013. That might not make a difference too much this year, but each season under the new CBA teams are able to designate a sum of money to 'throw forward' to the following year. By theory, the more cap room available to throw forward, the more chance this team has of re-signing the likes of Earl Thomas, Russell Okung, Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, K.J. Wright etc.

    The saving of $7m this year would allow the team the luxury of throwing maximum cap room into 2014 while also making one or two free agent additions to fill needs. It's not about 'Oh... Flynn is on so much money!" It's more a case of... "Why not use that money in a more useful way?" We don't need a backup on that salary who is nothing like Russell Wilson - the starter. So why not put the money to better use?

    This is my thinking as well.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:17 pm
  • Lucky Wilson can still ball without the Zone Read Option. But.... I like to have Flynn... just incase next year something happens.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:31 pm
  • It really comes down to what teams offer. If the price is high enough (draft picks, player(s)) then you take it.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:37 pm
  • Matt Flynn has shown he deserves a shot at starting in the NFL, and our team still has gaps to fill. Seems like a good plan to me, to trade him of. Plus free up cap room for some big FA's. Yeah it's nice to have a starter quality backup qb, but honestly, how many teams have one?????????
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:41 pm
  • The Hawks are in a very good position. Because of the fact that Wilson can't get his contract until after his 3rd season, we don't really have that much $ tied up in the QB position, especially if you look at the talent of these two guys. A lot of teams need a QB, Schneider can sit back and see what offers roll in. I prefer they trade him for a current player, a DE or a big WR. But, if someone throws a 2nd rounder out there, take it. You gotta' think that KC would be a perfect spot for him, and I'm already hearing a lot about that possibility on the radio.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:56 pm
  • I don't understand why all the talk about trading Flynn revolves around money. When to me the bigger reason to trade him is he simply doesn't fit the offense any longer. The team drastically changed it's offensive playbook as the season progressed, tailoring it to fit Russell Wilson's skill set. As it currently stands, if RW goes out mid-game with an injury and Flynn comes in, you are changing your playcalling. Same is the case if RW goes down for a game or two. I do not understand how people can think that's no big deal. You want a qb who can come in and keep the offense going as is.

    Danny O'Neil wrote about it the other day. Notice Pete's comments at the end.

    http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/ ... att-flynn/

    And while you could make a case that Flynn is one of the best backup quarterbacks in the entire league, he might not be the best backup quarterback for Seattle. He is a quarterback whose biggest asset is timing and anticipation while Wilson is someone with a plus-arm by NFL standards and exceptional mobility.

    In that regard, Seattle might be better finding a backup quarterback who is capable of running some of the option plays Seattle has as opposed to a more accomplished passer like Flynn.

    Carroll was asked, specifically, if it was important to find a backup with traits similar to Wilson’s.

    “It’s a good point and we’ve talked a lot about that,” Carroll said. “It would be nice to have another guy who might be able to be a factor in that way. There’s some really good kids out there. We’ll see.”
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:01 pm
  • The only reason I see to trade him is if he wants to go to another team to start. Otherwise you keep Flynn and sleep well at night knowing that your not one play away from flushing the whole season down the toliet like you would be if you had most other backups at qb.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:04 pm
  • Having 2 good QB's is a very good problem. Shoot, there are teams that have ZERO good Quarterbacks.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:03 pm
  • SeaTown81 wrote:I don't understand why all the talk about trading Flynn revolves around money. When to me the bigger reason to trade him is he simply doesn't fit the offense any longer. The team drastically changed it's offensive playbook as the season progressed, tailoring it to fit Russell Wilson's skill set. As it currently stands, if RW goes out mid-game with an injury and Flynn comes in, you are changing your playcalling. Same is the case if RW goes down for a game or two. I do not understand how people can think that's no big deal. You want a qb who can come in and keep the offense going as is.

    Danny O'Neil wrote about it the other day. Notice Pete's comments at the end.

    http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/ ... att-flynn/

    And while you could make a case that Flynn is one of the best backup quarterbacks in the entire league, he might not be the best backup quarterback for Seattle. He is a quarterback whose biggest asset is timing and anticipation while Wilson is someone with a plus-arm by NFL standards and exceptional mobility.

    In that regard, Seattle might be better finding a backup quarterback who is capable of running some of the option plays Seattle has as opposed to a more accomplished passer like Flynn.

    Carroll was asked, specifically, if it was important to find a backup with traits similar to Wilson’s.

    “It’s a good point and we’ve talked a lot about that,” Carroll said. “It would be nice to have another guy who might be able to be a factor in that way. There’s some really good kids out there. We’ll see.”


    Well, remember that Matt Hasselbeck was hardly a mobile QB. Even Tjack was basically used as a pure pocket passer- even before the injury Seattle was very hesitant to use him on designed runs. IIRC, the play that injured T-jack was his first designed run that season, and it was in week 5. Seattle prefers a do-it-all QB, but they have a history of making do with what they have.

    Don't get me wrong, you bring up a solid point, I just don't think it's the kind of dealbreaker you make it out to be. It is a factor though, absolutely.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:03 pm
  • He also says we have structured him well with the cap...

    A gm saying he isn't listening to offers? That's what they do...on the resume it says...

    Must be willing to listen to offers!

    One in the hand is worth two in bush

    On the idea of development of another qb...how many teams are at the bottom of the league trying to develop a qb? A capable backup is hard to find

    Aren't we don't that with kid in the practice squad? Or was he cut?

    My point was essentially what Schneider said...not sweating the salary he has, but would you trade a potential starter for anything less than a second rounder? Chancellor and the others can't be restructured anyway for another year or longer under new CBA

    A free agent defensive end will be the second highest salary on team...blowing up the core of our team for one position that may miss after her gets paid! He's rich beotch!

    This is a QB driven league....and many teams are inept at QB

    College is full of 4-5-6 round option qbs. At...a 3-4-5 round pick salary
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:57 pm
  • kearly wrote:
    C Well, remember that Matt Hasselbeck was hardly a mobile QB. Even Tjack was basically used as a pure pocket passer- even before the injury Seattle was very hesitant to use him on designed runs. IIRC, the play that injured T-jack was his first designed run that season, and it was in week 5. Seattle prefers a do-it-all QB, but they have a history of making do with what they have.

    Don't get me wrong, you bring up a solid point, I just don't think it's the kind of dealbreaker you make it out to be. It is a factor though, absolutely.


    The Hawks have changed the way they do things a lot since Hass & TJack. They've changed things a lot since the preseason. Not saying that they can't adjust their gameplan for Flynn. But it isn't ideal when you're practicing one way all week, then asked to switch it all up.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:41 pm
  • zayden185 wrote:The money was spent in signing bonus up front. That money is gone...all contracts are from loaded it seems.

    There wasn't a market for him last year...and tht was without giving up picks!

    Would YOU trade for Flynn...give up picks...and take his salary? His own offensive coordinator disnt even want him and had the chance


    I'm REALLY getting bothered by this rationale. Last year was an OUTLIER year for QB's because of; Luck, RG3, Tannehill, and Weeden. Why WOULD the Dolphins NOT take one of those, under rookie CBA numbers, during a rebuilding year? OF COURSE they weren't going to take Flynn - nor should they have.

    No offense, but I really hate this logic. It lacks a tao sense of how teams think, the 2012 draft class, the status of teams, etc. It's just plain ignorant.

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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:05 pm
  • zayden185 wrote:He also says we have structured him well with the cap...

    A gm saying he isn't listening to offers? That's what they do...on the resume it says...

    Must be willing to listen to offers!

    One in the hand is worth two in bush

    On the idea of development of another qb...how many teams are at the bottom of the league trying to develop a qb? A capable backup is hard to find

    Aren't we don't that with kid in the practice squad? Or was he cut?

    My point was essentially what Schneider said...not sweating the salary he has, but would you trade a potential starter for anything less than a second rounder? Chancellor and the others can't be restructured anyway for another year or longer under new CBA

    A free agent defensive end will be the second highest salary on team...blowing up the core of our team for one position that may miss after her gets paid! He's rich beotch!

    This is a QB driven league....and many teams are inept at QB

    College is full of 4-5-6 round option qbs. At...a 3-4-5 round pick salary


    No offense but that looks like a bunch of cluttered thoughts not a coherent argument. Im not sure what you're trying to get across...
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:12 pm
  • Trade Flynn for a good pick and bring back Portis to run the Option Read.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:17 pm
  • kearly wrote:Well, remember that Matt Hasselbeck was hardly a mobile QB. Even Tjack was basically used as a pure pocket passer- even before the injury Seattle was very hesitant to use him on designed runs. IIRC, the play that injured T-jack was his first designed run that season, and it was in week 5. Seattle prefers a do-it-all QB, but they have a history of making do with what they have.


    Yeah, to the tune of a defense-enhanced 7-9. Our receivers aren't timing/anticipation guys. I have to think that Flynn would have more value to Seattle by leaving it in favor of a mid-round draft pick and a mobile, zone-read-experienced QB.

    Still not sure where he'd garner a respectable offer from, but if we could wrangle a 4th from Hoodie for Deion Branch, it can't be impossible.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:17 am
  • Zowert wrote:Who is going to trade for Matt Flynn though? The guy has been a backup his entire NFL career.


    it's tough not to be a backup to Aaron Rodgers (#1 in NFL) and now Russell Wilson (top 10 in NFL).

    In my opinion, he is a very good quality QB who just cannot get a freaking break (but at least he is getting paid well). he is 28 and he should be an NFL starter, so he will desperately seek any opportunity to start somewhere else.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:27 am
  • There are slim pickens in the upcoming draft for qb's, Flynn's as good as gone.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:37 am
  • docj78 wrote:Matt Flynn has shown he deserves a shot at starting in the NFL, and our team still has gaps to fill. Seems like a good plan to me, to trade him of. Plus free up cap room for some big FA's. Yeah it's nice to have a starter quality backup qb, but honestly, how many teams have one?????????


    Flynn did have a shot at starting. It was an open competition between him and Wilson. Flynn technically had the advantage, being in the league for 4 years. Although he only has two NFL starts and a handful of drives from blowouts, it still counts as experience. Especially because his first NFL start was against the Patriots, and although the Packers lost that game, Flynn played well and kept the game close (throwing 3 TD's).

    Not sure if Flynn was talented enough to beat Wilson out of a job. It was close at the time (now its not even close). But he certainly had the chance if he would've put 100% effort into it and then some.. But I think Matt was simply caught off guard. Not saying he didn't put forth effort, just that he figured he had the job in the bag. I know its not wise to do this, but almost anyone would've felt the same. Getting paid big money by a team [not 'Manning Contract' big, but still a good chunk of change], then told they would have to "compete" with a 5'11" rookie while keeping in mind the kid was a third round draft choice.

    Anyway.. I think Flynn is good enough to be a starter for at least a handful of teams in the NFL. For some reason, I've had a funny feeling that the Dallas Cowboys are going to release Tony Romo this off-season. During which they probably plan on drafting a QB and signing one out of free agency. This is when someone in the Cowboys front office will think about a possible trade for a veteran quarterback to play while they develop their upcoming rookie QB. There are not a whole lot of choices out there, and Flynn has got to be the best one if they go the trade route.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Matt Flynn end up down in Dallas. Flynn was born in Texas and he seems to be the style of quarterback the Cowboys would want.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:46 am
  • Not sure the team keeps Flynn or not, but they will need to have a viable option at backup. Look at the impact not having one did to both Indy and Chicago the year before. GMs lost their jobs because of Painter and whoever that scrub was for the Bears. Even this year for the Bears with Campbell having to play.

    Just imagine the level of angst if something happens to the starter here with the certain Superbowl hype that will be going on all pre-season. Every talk radio and media center will be voicing displeasure in having no coherent backup plan.

    The OC and HC would just have to tailor the offense to fit Flynn and scale back all the Wilson-specific play-calling. The principles of the offense should be able to handle the switch. The team already dropped Portis and briefly took a flyer on Johnson before letting him move on.

    Is there a QB in the draft that they can get in the mid rounds to go along with Wilson? Cannot trade Flynn until you get a replacement in my estimation
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:50 am
  • Bipolar wrote:
    Zowert wrote:Who is going to trade for Matt Flynn though? The guy has been a backup his entire NFL career.


    it's tough not to be a backup to Aaron Rodgers (#1 in NFL) and now Russell Wilson (top 10 in NFL).

    In my opinion, he is a very good quality QB who just cannot get a freaking break (but at least he is getting paid well). he is 28 and he should be an NFL starter, so he will desperately seek any opportunity to start somewhere else.


    I think you're right. But I have been scratching my head over this ever since it became obvious that Flynn's contract wasn't worth having him as a backup in Seattle. After Russell Wilson's performance the last half of the season, there is no doubt that RW is the Seahawks franchise quarterback. I am almost certain Russ is going to retire a Seahawk. As long as the Hawks FO give him the money he deserves come contract negotiation time.

    Anyway, that was a bit off course. What I mean is, where do you think Flynn will end up? If you have no clue, then do you have a rough guess as to which team(s) will at least pursue him? I don't know why, but I have been thinking Dallas. They're done with Romo and the way their management works, they don't like to put their season in the hands of a rookie. They're an organization that wants to and must win (demanding fanbase) every season. No rebuilding, or sacrificing a season to allow a rookie QB to play and make the adjustment from NCAA to NFL speed and style of football. Therefore, Dallas is going to look for a veteran QB that can win games while whoever they draft this year does the usual 2-3 season development routine.

    Matt Flynn is a QB that could be good for Dallas. From his 2 starts and various other drives from a handful of games over the last 5 seasons now. He hasn't shown many (if any) weaknesses. Serious ones at least. His first NFL start was against the Patriots and he was able to put up three touchdown passes, to keep Green Bay in the game before they barely lost. His second start, against the Lions, he played very well too. Every preseason, he has been consistent. So... I'd say Flynn works for Dallas. Its up to them to pursue him. I mean, who else would they go after if they're going to replace Romo..?
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:59 am
  • Do you see us drafting a developmental QB in Rounds 3-5 as a possibility?
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:22 am
  • iigakusei wrote:Do you see us drafting a developmental QB in Rounds 3-5 as a possibility?


    I can. If John and/or Pete see a worthwhile QB in the later rounds, I could definitely see them picking one. It can't hurt to have a QB developing on the team, even though Russell Wilson is young and could end up being the Seahawks starting quarterback for the next decade. You just never know what could happen. Not just talking about injuries either. We don't know for sure if RW will be the Seahawks quarterback after his rookie contract expires.

    Money talks, and although I am quite positive Wilson is not the type that plays just for the money. Russ is intelligent and he has to realize this not just a game, but a business. As well as a career that's not like others, where you work around four decades then retire. But a career that only lasts a relatively small portion of your life and its not likely he will find a career that pays him the same kind of money when he's done with the NFL. So, RW is going to be looking out for his (and his family's) best interest come contract negotiations by getting as much money as he can. This means he could end up in a different uniform if a team offers him a contract that the Seahawks cannot match (for salary cap reasons).

    Lets say Wilson ends up having no ceiling. He just gets better and better with no cap on his talent whatsoever. Every team in the NFL will then have Russell Wilson's contract date marked on their calenders. The day he hits free agency (if the Seahawks can't work out a contract extension during the last year of his contract) RW's agent will have 20+ voicemails within an hour. He will be fair game. We better hope for a few things then: Russ really likes it here in Seattle, he has a close relationship with teammates and coaching staff, he likes the direction the organization is going in, Paul Allen is ready to open up his checkbook and the Seahawks have a good amount of [salary] cap space.

    Maybe an under-the-table bonus from Mr. Allen himself will keep Russ here. But if he really does end up being a phenom QB with no limit on his skills and overall talent. Other NFL teams will be willing to spend big, BIG money to get him on their roster.

    So... That is why its good to have a QB developing, even when you have a solid starter. Get a rookie QB now, so that he is ready to start in three years. When RW's contract expires. Just in case our worst nightmare happens. If he does end up going elsewhere, I hope its in the AFC.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:41 am
  • iigakusei wrote:Do you see us drafting a developmental QB in Rounds 3-5 as a possibility?


    Looks like the Skins got a pretty good deal from early results with Cousins. Folks around here liked him as well. The top-end QBs may be thin but there are always a good chance of hitting on decent QBs in the mid-rounds. Just not the Seahawks until last year. Greene and Teel didn't make it but then look at Flynn.

    I bet there is some nuggets out there to be found. Just not sure you trade the only other QB on the 53-man roster until you have acquired that player. Which makes it tough since most teams would want to have the QB before the draft otherwise they have to draft with the thought in mind to grab a starter early. Which looks to be a stretch this year from what I hear.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:16 am
  • The way I see this, no matter who the backup is, he is not going to be Russell Wilson. He will have to run different plays and there are different plays to run.

    It isn't like you can have another QB come in an use Read/Option plays without having run them in practices, it takes a lot of timing with fluid execution to be done properly. This is why I do not see a need for a different QB than Flynn at backup. Now if Flynn is saying "Please get me out of here to a place I will start" I can see the team doing so, but if Flynn is just going to get traded to a team that he is asked to compete for the job? What's the difference?

    Flynn is NOT making a fortune, he is making good money for a backup and like I said, if called upon, Flynn would be able to run any variety of plays that are not read option, providing a different look and someone who has made plays in real games with serious potential. I think Flynn stays another year, I think PC/JS will be scouting and looking for a guy and once they have confidence in that guy, Flynn will get moved, but not until then. It is only two more years anyways.. They can still get something for him next year.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:19 am
  • John Schneider has said before he'd like to take a QB in every draft, I could see it happening, maybe Matt Scott outta Arizona? we'll find out some more names.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:52 am
  • iigakusei wrote:Do you see us drafting a developmental QB in Rounds 3-5 as a possibility?


    That's exactly what I was thinking. Go with a young, coachable, and CHEAP understudy to Mr. Wilson.

    Heck, if we get a 3rd or 4th round pick for Flynn we could use it to select a backup QB who has started more games over his college career than Flynn has through college and in the NFL. Interesting.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:41 am
  • iigakusei wrote:Do you see us drafting a developmental QB in Rounds 3-5 as a possibility?


    I'd like to see us go a different route. Bring in an old salty veteran on the cheap... maybe a guy like Sage Rosenfels. I don't like the idea of another young guy behind a 1st year starter.

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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:47 am
  • I think it's funny that a guy like Rosenfels would be making a minimum salary around 2x that of Russell Wilson for another 2 seasons. I'm not saying that's a reason to not bring in a veteran, but it is funny.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:19 am
  • zayden185 wrote:
    My point is, there is absolutely ZERO reason to trade the guy.


    Anytime you trade a player it's to maximize his value in relation to what you're paying him. Sure it's great to have a dependable backup like Flynn, but if you can;

    1. Find a comparable backup for half the cost.
    2. Get a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

    Then hell yeah it makes sense. Not only do you open up more cap space by dumping Flynn's salary, you get more draft picks to keep or trade up for a good player who will contribute to the team..........as opposed to keeping a player that's not contributing to the team, at least not as a starter.
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:58 pm
  • Standing in Pete and John's shoes, here's how I'd look at it:
    - We were ONE (KEY) PLAY AWAY from the next round of the playoffs. A sack, a pressured incompletion, stopping a key running play better, etc.
    - We were ONE PLAY AWAY from NFC West championship and home field advantage.
    - We might be more than ONE PLAY AWAY from beating SAN FRAN and GREEN BAY in the PLAYOFFS.
    - The most important KEY PLAYS we need are from our DEFENSIVE LINE, e.g., to pressure and sack Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, Kevin Kolb.
    - We might need better/deeper D-Line play to cope with SF's Colin Kaepernick as a veteran next year, and beat the 49ers when it matters.
    - With about $8 million (or whatever the exact number is), we can probably get FIVE OR SIX PLAYS PER GAME that we aren't getting now.
    - We can also upgrade by getting another BIG, FAST, DOMINANT WIDE RECEIVER. That will give us maybe ONE or TWO plays per game we aren't getting now.
    - A better linebacker or two could give us another THREE or FOUR plays per game we aren't getting now.
    - We will get THREE or FOUR PLAYS a game better from our more experienced O-LINE, Sweezy better, Carp back and healthy. An upgrade could make that higher. Upgrades take time.
    - We will get THREE or FOUR PLAYS a game better on D from improvements by Irvin, Wagner, young non-Sherman/Browner DB's (Lane, Guy, Thurmond, etc.)
    - This is a crap year for QB's in the draft. This is the peak of Flynn's value, this year.
    - We were OVERALL LUCKY WITH INJURIES this last year. We could lose FIVE to EIGHT PLAYS per game through injuries next year if we aren't as fortunate.
    - This team needs to upgrade our current talent pool by at least TEN PLAYS PER GAME, just to stay competitive at the same level and have a good shot at being improved.

    MATT FLYNN IS GONE.

    Here's what I expect PC/JS to DO:
    - We will trade Flynn and get some value for Flynn. Picks, or a D-lineman, or a WR. Flynn to KC and sign-and-trade Dwayne Bowe could be a possibility, or trade to move up.
    - PC/JS will try to trade to move up in the draft to grab a stud DL or WR.
    - We will draft some stud D-Line talent, some DT up-the-middle push, early in our draft. We get a rookie who can pressure. +TWO PLAYS PER GAME.
    - If we have a chance to draft a Green or Julio Jones type of WR by moving up, we will do that. +ONE PLAY PER GAME.
    - We will pick a couple linebackers in the early/middle rounds, to replace Leroy Hill & compete with Malcolm Smith. +TWO PLAYS PER GAME.
    - We will draft a developmental QB who can physically do many of the things Wilson can do, and has good work habits and upside. We lose TEN+ plays per game if he has to play.
    - We will score another Jason Jones type of player in free agency. With J. Jones in the Atlanta game, never mind losing Clemons, we win. +TWO PLAYS PER GAME.
    - We will try to draft or sign a DE to hedge against Clemons not coming back 100% or Irvin not developing as an every-down player.
    - If the talent is there, I wouldn't be surprised if we pick up another OL in the draft or in free agency. Just not Tyler Polumbus.
    - If the talent is there, a future-star TE wouldn't be a bad early round pick.
    - I think we look for a mid-late round running back who could be a Terrell Davis or Alfred Morris type of back. (Recall TD was a 5th or 6th rounder)

    My guess at what happens off the field:
    - We trade Flynn to move up in the draft. Jacksonville, KC, someone will give us value for him. We get back his cap space.
    - In the draft, we pick up a stud inside rush, runstopper DT, whoever PC/JS target, as our #1 pick. (Plan B: stud WR)
    - In the draft, we pick up DL depth, LB depth, developmental QB, and WR depth.
    - In free agency, we pick up more DL depth, and maybe more WR depth.

    My guess at what happens on the field?
    - We are less lucky with injuries. We (lose) -FIVE PLAYS per game compared to last year.
    - We get better pass rush from new D-Line talent. We gain +TWO PLAYS per game over last year, net of Irvin improvement, new talent, etc.
    - We get better O-Line play just by guys coming back from injury and overall improvement of young talent & meshing better. (Carpenter, Sweezy, Okung) +THREE PLAYS per game.
    - Wilson is +TWO PLAYS per game better than last year.
    - Our new DC is -TWO PLAYS per game worse than Gus Bradley was last year.
    - Our LB corps is +ONE PLAY per game better than last year.
    - Our secondary is +ONE PLAY per game better than last year.

    Outcomes on the field, with our +TWO PLAYS per game team over last year:
    - We lose to SF and the Lambs on the road. We win all other divison games, but lose one other road game. We go 8-0 at home again. Record: 13-3.
    - SF is good again. They go 13-3 and wind up in a tie for the division.
    - Depending on tie-breakers... We're either division champs or a wild card once again.
    - If we win our division, we run the table at CLink in the playoffs, and on to the Super Bowl, and win that also, beating the Patriots 42-31.
    If we lose the division tiebreaker to SF...
    - We win playoffs round 1 at home, win playoffs division round on the road.
    - We play SF in the NFC championship game.
    - From here, it gets a little fuzzy. There are so many wildcards. What I'd like to see is that we win an epic game against SF on their field, head to the Super Bowl, and hand Brady and the Patriots yet another Super Bowl defeat.
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    olyfan63
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:10 pm
  • olyfan63 wrote:Standing in Pete and John's shoes, here's how I'd look at it:
    - We were ONE (KEY) PLAY AWAY from the next round of the playoffs. A sack, a pressured incompletion, stopping a key running play better, etc.
    - We were ONE PLAY AWAY from NFC West championship and home field advantage.
    - We might be more than ONE PLAY AWAY from beating SAN FRAN and GREEN BAY in the PLAYOFFS.
    - The most important KEY PLAYS we need are from our DEFENSIVE LINE, e.g., to pressure and sack Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, Kevin Kolb.
    - We might need better/deeper D-Line play to cope with SF's Colin Kaepernick as a veteran next year, and beat the 49ers when it matters.
    - With about $8 million (or whatever the exact number is), we can probably get FIVE OR SIX PLAYS PER GAME that we aren't getting now.
    - We can also upgrade by getting another BIG, FAST, DOMINANT WIDE RECEIVER. That will give us maybe ONE or TWO plays per game we aren't getting now.
    - A better linebacker or two could give us another THREE or FOUR plays per game we aren't getting now.
    - We will get THREE or FOUR PLAYS a game better from our more experienced O-LINE, Sweezy better, Carp back and healthy. An upgrade could make that higher. Upgrades take time.
    - We will get THREE or FOUR PLAYS a game better on D from improvements by Irvin, Wagner, young non-Sherman/Browner DB's (Lane, Guy, Thurmond, etc.)
    - This is a crap year for QB's in the draft. This is the peak of Flynn's value, this year.
    - We were OVERALL LUCKY WITH INJURIES this last year. We could lose FIVE to EIGHT PLAYS per game through injuries next year if we aren't as fortunate.
    - This team needs to upgrade our current talent pool by at least TEN PLAYS PER GAME, just to stay competitive at the same level and have a good shot at being improved.

    MATT FLYNN IS GONE.

    Here's what I expect PC/JS to DO:
    - We will trade Flynn and get some value for Flynn. Picks, or a D-lineman, or a WR. Flynn to KC and sign-and-trade Dwayne Bowe could be a possibility, or trade to move up.
    - PC/JS will try to trade to move up in the draft to grab a stud DL or WR.
    - We will draft some stud D-Line talent, some DT up-the-middle push, early in our draft. We get a rookie who can pressure. +TWO PLAYS PER GAME.
    - If we have a chance to draft a Green or Julio Jones type of WR by moving up, we will do that. +ONE PLAY PER GAME.
    - We will pick a couple linebackers in the early/middle rounds, to replace Leroy Hill & compete with Malcolm Smith. +TWO PLAYS PER GAME.
    - We will draft a developmental QB who can physically do many of the things Wilson can do, and has good work habits and upside. We lose TEN+ plays per game if he has to play.
    - We will score another Jason Jones type of player in free agency. With J. Jones in the Atlanta game, never mind losing Clemons, we win. +TWO PLAYS PER GAME.
    - We will try to draft or sign a DE to hedge against Clemons not coming back 100% or Irvin not developing as an every-down player.
    - If the talent is there, I wouldn't be surprised if we pick up another OL in the draft or in free agency. Just not Tyler Polumbus.
    - If the talent is there, a future-star TE wouldn't be a bad early round pick.
    - I think we look for a mid-late round running back who could be a Terrell Davis or Alfred Morris type of back. (Recall TD was a 5th or 6th rounder)

    My guess at what happens off the field:
    - We trade Flynn to move up in the draft. Jacksonville, KC, someone will give us value for him. We get back his cap space.
    - In the draft, we pick up a stud inside rush, runstopper DT, whoever PC/JS target, as our #1 pick. (Plan B: stud WR)
    - In the draft, we pick up DL depth, LB depth, developmental QB, and WR depth.
    - In free agency, we pick up more DL depth, and maybe more WR depth.

    My guess at what happens on the field?
    - We are less lucky with injuries. We (lose) -FIVE PLAYS per game compared to last year.
    - We get better pass rush from new D-Line talent. We gain +TWO PLAYS per game over last year, net of Irvin improvement, new talent, etc.
    - We get better O-Line play just by guys coming back from injury and overall improvement of young talent & meshing better. (Carpenter, Sweezy, Okung) +THREE PLAYS per game.
    - Wilson is +TWO PLAYS per game better than last year.
    - Our new DC is -TWO PLAYS per game worse than Gus Bradley was last year.
    - Our LB corps is +ONE PLAY per game better than last year.
    - Our secondary is +ONE PLAY per game better than last year.

    Outcomes on the field, with our +TWO PLAYS per game team over last year:
    - We lose to SF and the Lambs on the road. We win all other divison games, but lose one other road game. We go 8-0 at home again. Record: 13-3.
    - SF is good again. They go 13-3 and wind up in a tie for the division.
    - Depending on tie-breakers... We're either division champs or a wild card once again.
    - If we win our division, we run the table at CLink in the playoffs, and on to the Super Bowl, and win that also, beating the Patriots 42-31.
    If we lose the division tiebreaker to SF...
    - We win playoffs round 1 at home, win playoffs division round on the road.
    - We play SF in the NFC championship game.
    - From here, it gets a little fuzzy. There are so many wildcards. What I'd like to see is that we win an epic game against SF on their field, head to the Super Bowl, and hand Brady and the Patriots yet another Super Bowl defeat.


    Remember when Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt stumbled upon "John Doe's" notebooks in Seven?
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    pehawk
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:11 pm
  • Anyone ponder about maybe NYJ would be willing to trade Coples for Flynn?
    How many 49ers fans does it take to change a light bulb?

    None, they will all show and talk about how good the old one was...
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    hawker232
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:24 pm
  • pehawk wrote:
    olyfan63 wrote:Standing in Pete and John's shoes, here's how I'd look at it:
    - We were ONE (KEY) PLAY AWAY from the next round of the playoffs. A sack, a pressured incompletion, stopping a key running play better, etc.
    ...
    - From here, it gets a little fuzzy. There are so many wildcards. What I'd like to see is that we win an epic game against SF on their field, head to the Super Bowl, and hand Brady and the Patriots yet another Super Bowl defeat.


    Remember when Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt stumbled upon "John Doe's" notebooks in Seven?


    Hey, have some FUN with it. It's a LONG offseason. I dumped it all out there for fun, before I forget, and to look at later and see what comes true. You got anything better? I't'd be fun to hear your thoughts on what comes next. (or even just what you agree/disagree with in what I said, and why) Sure, I could have stopped at "FLYNN GETS TRADED". Sure, maybe I could start a "Front office moves predictions" thread. One thing about this front office, it's really interesting, and educational, to see how they think, what they believe, and the only thing that truly shows that is what they DO. (We've certainly learned they don't care about what national pundits think, rightly trust their own evaluations first, and it's been SWEET how they've shown us how clueless many of those national pundits are)

    Bottom line, FLYNN GETS TRADED for value the team needs, and to free up cap space for value the team needs.

    P.S. On the "notebooks" side, I'm only about 4700 posts behind you. Give me another 10 years and you're toast! :twisted: :twisted:

    P.P.S. Sorry man, gotta run. My Harbaugh notebook is calling. That one's going to take some serious planning to do in the right way. I'm debating between Greed and Pride for him. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
    Last edited by olyfan63 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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    olyfan63
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Re: FLYNN AND WILSON
Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:59 pm
  • hawker232 wrote:Anyone ponder about maybe NYJ would be willing to trade Coples for Flynn?

    Can't see that happening. It would be too good a trade for US. Coples has shown he can PLAY in the NFL. (So has Flynn) Just don't see the Jets deciding that Flynn is enough of an upgrade over Sanchez to justify giving away a key defensive player. Plus, Rex Ryan is a defense-oriented coach. He's not going to let go of a foundation piece like Coples.
    I'd love to be wrong about this, though, and see Coples in a Seahawks uniform, for just the cost of Flynn.

    I do bet da Jets would offer us Sanchez, straight across, for Flynn. This year, Wilson wasn't very good at butt-fumbles, so Sanchez would have an edge on him in that competition.
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