Clock management: Big issue

The 3rd down from the 15 was the biggest play of the game. A touchdown there is worse than a first down, and I tweeted as much prior to the play (so this isn't hindsight 20/20). As soon as he converted for the first down, we should have let them waltz into the endzone if they wanted.

Which would you prefer: Down 2, 21 seconds, no timeouts, on own 20 OR down 6, 2:30 left, no timeouts?

This isn't a matter of trusting or not trusting the defense, unless you want to roll the dice on forcing a fumble or a blocked FG, both of which are incredibly low probability outcomes. It's a matter of giving your team the best chance at victory.

Also, as a related sidenote, if we ever burn a TO on 2nd and 25 to save 5 meaningless yards again I'll blow up. Especially when the playcalling following the TO suggested we weren't even trying to get a first down, instead just improving field position.

All around pathetic clock management. You should never have a lead with 6+ minutes remaining and not give your offense another (realistic) shot.

I'm with you. Totally agree.

Hard to fault him for letting the defense play. Though, Carroll does have a history of iffy clock management.

I don't know about letting them score, but we should've definitely waited until they either scored or got the 1st down to have 1st and goal then used the TO's. There was like 3:30 left in the game when he used the first TO.

I said the same thing to my wife. Rarely do teams think of that and I always wonder why.

The use of timeouts in the second half was not good, the letting them score and get ball back is a sound strategy but with Always ComPETE mentality I dont see us using that strategy often. Sucks that we lost a game would could have won, but in the grand scheme of things its keeps this team hungry and no worries about resting players or whatever down the stretch. Lets go get the Giants and then play a Cardinal team fighting for playoff spot as our last real prep game before playoffs start...

Big Picture nothing to worry about other than Unger and KJ...

nanomoz":3bfmz1zn said:

Hard to fault him for letting the defense play. Though, Carroll does have a history of iffy clock management.

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How is it hard to fault him for that decision? It's pretty damn easy. The chances of either A) forcing a fumble while SF is focused on protecting the ball, B) Hoping for a missed or blocked chip shot FG, and C) Completing a hail mary with 20 seconds left all added together are ASTRONOMICALLY lower than Russell Wilson leading a TD drive for the win down 6 with 2:30 left on the clock.

49ers":s3e686g2 said:

I said the same thing to my wife. Rarely do teams think of that and I always wonder why.

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Teams don't do it because it's taboo in the league to just let someone score a touchdown. Nobody does it, therefore nobody does it, if that makes sense.

In all honesty, and it sounds like a joke but it's not, I'm a clock management mastermind because of the literally thousands of games of ranked Madden games I've played. It might be the only thing that would translate to being a real coach, but it's so frustrating watching coaches who are paid millions of dollars cost their teams games because of something so simple as managing the clock.

ChrisB Bacon":38q81w0n said:

nanomoz":38q81w0n said:

Hard to fault him for letting the defense play. Though, Carroll does have a history of iffy clock management.

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How is it hard to fault him for that decision? It's pretty damn easy. The chances of either A) forcing a fumble while SF is focused on protecting the ball, B) Hoping for a missed or blocked chip shot FG, and C) Completing a hail mary with 20 seconds left all added together are ASTRONOMICALLY lower than Russell Wilson leading a TD drive for the win down 6 with 2:30 left on the clock.

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I understand your point, but what kind of an example does that set for your defense which prides themselves so high on stops. Would you really want to tell the LOB, those defensive lineman, to just let your biggest rival to score on you when there's still a chance to stop them. I get the strategy, but you win some games, you lose some games, but don't ever lose the identity and the integrity of the team. While this loss stings, it's not the end of the world, losing the integrity of our guys is the end.

ChrisB Bacon":2jhlnnkc said:

nanomoz":2jhlnnkc said:

Hard to fault him for letting the defense play. Though, Carroll does have a history of iffy clock management.

Click to expand...

How is it hard to fault him for that decision? It's pretty damn easy. The chances of either A) forcing a fumble while SF is focused on protecting the ball, B) Hoping for a missed or blocked chip shot FG, and C) Completing a hail mary with 20 seconds left all added together are ASTRONOMICALLY lower than Russell Wilson leading a TD drive for the win down 6 with 2:30 left on the clock.

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If he hawks could have stopped a 3rd and 7, they'd have gotten the ball back with nearly 2 minutes left. By the way, Manninham's hold of Lane on that play almost resulted in me throwing my couch throug a fekin' window.

dontbelikethat":1tnof9ci said:

ChrisB Bacon":1tnof9ci said:

nanomoz":1tnof9ci said:

Hard to fault him for letting the defense play. Though, Carroll does have a history of iffy clock management.

Click to expand...

How is it hard to fault him for that decision? It's pretty damn easy. The chances of either A) forcing a fumble while SF is focused on protecting the ball, B) Hoping for a missed or blocked chip shot FG, and C) Completing a hail mary with 20 seconds left all added together are ASTRONOMICALLY lower than Russell Wilson leading a TD drive for the win down 6 with 2:30 left on the clock.

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I understand your point, but what kind of an example does that set for your defense which prides themselves so high on stops. Would you really want to tell the LOB, those defensive lineman, to just let your biggest rival to score on you when there's still a chance to stop them. I get the strategy, but you win some games, you lose some games, but don't ever lose the identity and the integrity of the team. While this loss stings, it's not the end of the world, losing the integrity of our guys is the end.

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If giving your team the best chance of victory loses the respect of your defense that says more about the mental make-up of the player than anything. It's not about "not trusting the defense." That would be being up 7 with 3 minutes left and letting them walk in because it gives your offense more time to score. This would simply be trusting your QB. The '85 Bears couldn't have done anything about the clock situation at that point. Shit you could tackle Hunter as he takes the hand off each of the 3 plays for a 5 yard loss and it wouldn't make a difference. The fact is no matter what the defense did, there wouldn't be enough time left to score. The game was lost when Kaepernick got 8 on 3rd and 7 and Pete elected to keep them out of the endzone.

nanomoz":3zgo6t47 said:

ChrisB Bacon":3zgo6t47 said:

nanomoz":3zgo6t47 said:

Hard to fault him for letting the defense play. Though, Carroll does have a history of iffy clock management.

Click to expand...

How is it hard to fault him for that decision? It's pretty damn easy. The chances of either A) forcing a fumble while SF is focused on protecting the ball, B) Hoping for a missed or blocked chip shot FG, and C) Completing a hail mary with 20 seconds left all added together are ASTRONOMICALLY lower than Russell Wilson leading a TD drive for the win down 6 with 2:30 left on the clock.

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If he hawks could have stopped a 3rd and 7, they'd have gotten the ball back with nearly 2 minutes left. By the way, Manninham's hold of Lane on that play almost resulted in me throwing my couch throug a fekin' window.

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Well ya, obviously, and we wouldn't be having this conversation. I don't see how that has any relevance (other than the fact it put us in that situation) whatsoever to botched clock management at the end.

ChrisB Bacon":35fnxu0r said:

nanomoz":35fnxu0r said:

Hard to fault him for letting the defense play. Though, Carroll does have a history of iffy clock management.

Click to expand...

How is it hard to fault him for that decision? It's pretty damn easy. The chances of either A) forcing a fumble while SF is focused on protecting the ball, B) Hoping for a missed or blocked chip shot FG, and C) Completing a hail mary with 20 seconds left all added together are ASTRONOMICALLY lower than Russell Wilson leading a TD drive for the win down 6 with 2:30 left on the clock.

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I agree with this. FG block or hail mary much lower chances.

I get that it isn't how Pete rolls but purely on what gives you the best chance to win there's no contest letting them score is the best chance.

ChrisB Bacon":2xbtei4l said:

dontbelikethat":2xbtei4l said:

ChrisB Bacon":2xbtei4l said:

nanomoz":2xbtei4l said:

Hard to fault him for letting the defense play. Though, Carroll does have a history of iffy clock management.

Click to expand...

How is it hard to fault him for that decision? It's pretty damn easy. The chances of either A) forcing a fumble while SF is focused on protecting the ball, B) Hoping for a missed or blocked chip shot FG, and C) Completing a hail mary with 20 seconds left all added together are ASTRONOMICALLY lower than Russell Wilson leading a TD drive for the win down 6 with 2:30 left on the clock.

Click to expand...

I understand your point, but what kind of an example does that set for your defense which prides themselves so high on stops. Would you really want to tell the LOB, those defensive lineman, to just let your biggest rival to score on you when there's still a chance to stop them. I get the strategy, but you win some games, you lose some games, but don't ever lose the identity and the integrity of the team. While this loss stings, it's not the end of the world, losing the integrity of our guys is the end.

Click to expand...

If giving your team the best chance of victory loses the respect of your defense that says more about the mental make-up of the player than anything. It's not about "not trusting the defense." That would be being up 7 with 3 minutes left and letting them walk in because it gives your offense more time to score. This would simply be trusting your QB. The '85 Bears couldn't have done anything about the clock situation at that point. Shit you could tackle Hunter as he takes the hand off each of the 3 plays for a 5 yard loss and it wouldn't make a difference. The fact is no matter what the defense did, there wouldn't be enough time left to score. The game was lost when Kaepernick got 8 on 3rd and 7 and Pete elected to keep them out of the endzone.

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I get what you're saying, there's a better chance with more time, but if we still lost, how much more pissed do you think those defensive guys would be? I understand why a team would do it, and I'm not saying it's either a good or bad strategy, but this team has proven time and time again that it'll claw and scratch until the end, they're not goona go down with out a fight. They pride themselves with being physical and manning up.

The game was over after that first down. There was 2:40 left. Put the ball back in Wilson's hands. It was the only chance to win the game. We didn't give him a chance to do his magic! How many times have we seen him do it? Schitt!

dontbelikethat":11zxv27q said:

this team has proven time and time again that it'll claw and scratch until the end, they're not goona go down with out a fight.

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Ironically, that's exactly what they did by letting the clock drain: Go down without a fight.

ChrisB Bacon":2e1dthr4 said:

dontbelikethat":2e1dthr4 said:

this team has proven time and time again that it'll claw and scratch until the end, they're not goona go down with out a fight.

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Ironically, that's exactly what they did by letting the clock drain: Go down without a fight.

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We had a chance at the end, yeah it might've not been the best chance depending on how you view it, but they had a chance. Kearse fell down and it was the end of that.

Chris B: I thought you were saying let Gore into the end zone on the long run. My bad.

Didn't Pete call timeout after the long run? If so, that was certainly moronic, since there was a first down upcoming.

a game never really comes down to one play. we got beat.. good game. gonna win 7 in a row now

hawks4thewin":3u94ddwg said:

a game never really comes down to one play. we got beat.. good game. gonna win 7 in a row now

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No way to win 7 in a row, unless you are talking about game 1 next season.

dontbelikethat":3u94ddwg said:

ChrisB Bacon":3u94ddwg said:

dontbelikethat":3u94ddwg said:

this team has proven time and time again that it'll claw and scratch until the end, they're not goona go down with out a fight.

Click to expand...

Ironically, that's exactly what they did by letting the clock drain: Go down without a fight.

Click to expand...

We had a chance at the end, yeah it might've not been the best chance depending on how you view it, but they had a chance. Kearse fell down and it was the end of that.

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And what if he doesn't fall down? You really think the rest of the team is getting 65 yards down field, set and snapping the ball to clock it before the 9 seconds that were left on the clock are up?