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 Post subject: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:11 pm 
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Ms trade Jaso to Oakland in a three team deal to bring Mike Morse back to Seattle. Seattle now has 37 OFs on the roster. :sarcasm_off:
I really liked Jaso, I thought he was the best catcher the Ms had last season. It is time for Montero to step up I guess.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/nat ... team-deal/

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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:15 pm 
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Awful move. I think this move turns the tide against Jack Z.


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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:18 pm 
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kearly wrote:
Awful move. I think this move turns the tide against Jack Z.


Maybe..unless Morse returns to his 2011 form when he hit 31 HRs and batted .303 in 146 games.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... mi01.shtml

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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:19 pm 
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Yeah, I don't think it's that bad, but I don't really get it either.

How quickly are they planning on bringing up Zunino?


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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:22 pm 
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Well......I really liked Jaso and boy was he clutch for us.

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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:24 pm 
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Jaso was clutch but for some reason he was not an everyday player, we have a logjam at catcher anyways and the fences are coming in :D I am down.

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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:52 pm 
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m0ng0 wrote:
Jaso was clutch but for some reason he was not an everyday player, we have a logjam at catcher anyways and the fences are coming in :D I am down.


We do not have a logjam at catcher. What we have is a logjam at DH/1B/LF. And we just traded for another one.

Olivo is gone, Montero is not an everyday ML catcher, and Zunino hasn't even played a season of minor league baseball yet.

We likely needed to sign a veteran catcher anyway to replace Olivo. Now we need two.

Jaso could have been an everyday guy, but for some dumb reason, Wedge refused to play him.

Watch Oakland turn him into a good catcher. They know how to use players like this. He'll become a fan favorite and a solid 3+ WAR player. He's under control for a few more years too. This is the type of player that the A's turn into gold.

Morse is a 1 year deal.

This is just a terrible deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:57 pm 
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http://mynorthwest.com/422/2177293/Mari ... with-Morse

Salk sums it up nicely.

People are vastly overrating Jaso. Not saying this is a good deal or even a deal the M's win, but it's not some landslide loss, in fact, I think the M's very well could come out ahead. Time will tell.


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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:10 pm 
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pinksheets wrote:
http://mynorthwest.com/422/2177293/Mariners-take-a-worthy-risk-with-Morse

Salk sums it up nicely.

People are vastly overrating Jaso. Not saying this is a good deal or even a deal the M's win, but it's not some landslide loss, in fact, I think the M's very well could come out ahead. Time will tell.


I don't like this move. We are even thinner at catcher now, gave up a young talented player for an older, more injured, more expensive player with a shorter contract. This is the move Jack Z has avoided over the last couple years.

Bringing in Morse and Ibanez just smells like panic and short sightedness. we were relatively lucky to escape the Upton trade, but we could have traded Franklin, or gone after Bourn.

I've defended the Ms a lot here but not this time. Don't like this move


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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Uncle Si wrote:
Z
pinksheets wrote:
http://mynorthwest.com/422/2177293/Mariners-take-a-worthy-risk-with-Morse

Salk sums it up nicely.

People are vastly overrating Jaso. Not saying this is a good deal or even a deal the M's win, but it's not some landslide loss, in fact, I think the M's very well could come out ahead. Time will tell.


I don't like this move. We are even thinner at catcher now, gave up a young talented player for an older, more injured, more expensive player with a shorter contract. This is the move Jack Z has avoided over the last couple years.

Bringing in Morse and Ibanez just smells like panic and short sightedness. we were relatively lucky to escape the Upton trade, but we could have traded Franklin, or gone after Bourn.

I've defended the Ms a lot here but not this time. Don't like this move


Yeah. It's things like this that really wear on my passion for the team. Maybe it'll work out and all, but getting lucky by making the wrong moves is a much worse strategy than getting unlucky while making the right moves. Ibanez was ridiculous. Morse is silly. This is starting to feel a lot like Rich Aurilia, Eduardo Perez, Ben Broussard....


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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:30 pm 
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Not a fan either. Ms can spin it however they want, but they just traded for a worse player at a less important position that has a shorter contract. Fortunately, one player here or there is not going to make any difference on the Ms upcoming mediocre season.

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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:47 pm 
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What as shortsighted move... wow.

Sorta off topic but this is just getting unbearable. These GMs come in and have a good year or two, then get pressure from the fanbase when they don't get instant gratification. Trades like this become moves of desperation, in an attempt to save their jobs(if it pans out, usually doesn't). The Owners then fire said GM and talk about a bright future with a new GM/Manager. Don't worry, its a 3 year plan! Welcome to Mariner baseball.

Like I said, short-sighted move that has only the *potential* to pay off if Morse can get back to his '11 form. But nevermind the issues with 1B, LF, DH, all being overloaded. Now we're short on CATCHER!? Unreal.

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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:10 pm 
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Not a fan at all of this one. Normally I'm pretty on board with this FO but this ones a little irritating.

This manages to make catcher an area of need and getting another 1B/RF/DH who is more expensive, 1 year contract, injury prone, older, year removed from his one good year, switching leagues, and swings at literally everything isn't the best bet. Well not literally but whatever. 3% walk rate, 21.7% SO rate. Jaso is a platoon player, but he also has far of more a defined spot than Morse likely will. Jaso's hit quite well 2 of the last three years at a much tougher position to find hitters. Of course not with great defense, but neither have many of the catchers the M's have paraded through in the past few years while having much less offense.

But maybe it'll work out. Maybe we'll pick up a catcher that can survive behind the plate and we'll be alright there. If Morse hits like he did in 2011 and can man RF a decent amount it'd be well worth it. Maybe we'll get a left handed pitcher to replace Vargas so that the Morales trade wasn't just swapping one problem for another. If Morales and Morse can hit, it'll take a lot of pressure off the other guys. Maybe it'll be alright.

But a defense containing Morales at first, Montero at catcher, and Morse in RF is pretty scary. Not that that would happen all the time, but likely two of the three would be in the field in your average game.

One interesting thing is that both Morales and Morse are on one year contracts. Possible we could get picks out of them if they leave or swing them at the deadline if we are looking out of the race.

If Montero, Morales, and Morse are mashing along with Seager, Saunders, and Smoak slugging good things could happen this year. And Ackley, Andino and uhh I'm gonna stop now.

Anyways I've somehow ended up feeling alright about this. Morse, Montero, and Morales bring some power. If Seager and Saunders can build on last year. If Ackley and Smoak can rebound (Smoak to a bigger degree). If Guti can not get bit by snakes. If we add a catcher and a LH pitcher.

Lots of if's but you never know, Oakland made the playoffs last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:13 pm 
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This a bad move for a single reason: Morse is a one year rental, Jaso was under team control until 2015. Really, unless they plan on making Montero a full time catcher (very, very unlikely) this move doesn't make sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:16 pm 
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The M's are full of terrible decisions...


I can't even stand watching this team anymore, it's just not worth it until they show ANY sign they want to contend. So far, all I see is a team that farms players, then trades them away for nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:55 am 
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HawkFan72 wrote:
m0ng0 wrote:
Jaso was clutch but for some reason he was not an everyday player, we have a logjam at catcher anyways and the fences are coming in :D I am down.




Jaso could have been an everyday guy, but for some dumb reason, Wedge refused to play him.



Jaso's splits are horrible and his defense sucks.

If you consider them both average at best on defense, then Morse is more valuable because of offense. That may seem short-sighted, but if you take into account that Morse and Jaso both project to +1.5 WAR next year(according to the all-mighty Dave "I have hated Morse for years" Cameron), then I will take the better offensive player with better splits and equal defense.

Yes, I have read the Cameron article, and he makes a less than admirable case for his stance against the trade. He presented evidence at the beginning of his article that compared the two players and they were close with Morse being the better offensive player. After that, he interjected his personal, and biased, opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:45 am 
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Traded a part time player for everyday player with a bigger bat. How is this bad?

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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:49 am 
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CurryStopstheRuns wrote:
HawkFan72 wrote:
m0ng0 wrote:
Jaso was clutch but for some reason he was not an everyday player, we have a logjam at catcher anyways and the fences are coming in :D I am down.




Jaso could have been an everyday guy, but for some dumb reason, Wedge refused to play him.



Jaso's splits are horrible and his defense sucks.

If you consider them both average at best on defense, then Morse is more valuable because of offense. That may seem short-sighted, but if you take into account that Morse and Jaso both project to +1.5 WAR next year(according to the all-mighty Dave "I have hated Morse for years" Cameron), then I will take the better offensive player with better splits and equal defense.

Yes, I have read the Cameron article, and he makes a less than admirable case for his stance against the trade. He presented evidence at the beginning of his article that compared the two players and they were close with Morse being the better offensive player. After that, he interjected his personal, and biased, opinion.

I agree with this 100%. Every year, the blogosphere takes a player and becomes obsessed with them. It was John Jaso this year. Sure he served a purpose on the team, but he was never going to be a full time player and we got back someone who could.

Personally, I can't stand Dave Cameron so I bet he ripped this trade because he was obsessed with Jaso.

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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:56 am 
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I'll go against the grain here and say I'm for it. Jaso did well, PT player though. We can find another PT catcher or heck, a FT catcher they are out there just to hold over until Zunino arrives and becomes the next Posey. If Morse can produce 25/90 I'll be happy. The question and problem I see is they are getting way too many players that are alike. Morse, Ibanez, Morales, Smoak, Montero.

Heres a thought, and I'm kidding, Morse was a SS coming up, put him at 3b.

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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:11 am 
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Anybody that bats above two eighty will lead this team. That is solely what the trade was about.
Morse has a injury history but his price tag is small for the potential. Tied hands and all of that ownwrship blah blah

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 Post subject: Re: Ms trade Jaso
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:12 am 
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I was a big fan of Morse in his early years and call me crazy I like the trade. There will come a time this season, however, where we will surely miss the clutch bench bat that was John Jaso, and the beard behind the mask.

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