Cap space/contract gurus !!!!!

[KitsapGuy]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/seattletimes/status/1197421640897966080[/tweet]

 

[HawkStrong]

On the other hand those things arent happening. Ints, sacks etc. We had a multiple game stretch with no sacks.

Pressures, QB hits, FF, INTs are happening.

5-6 INTs over that stretch of Week 3-9

2 FF and 2 Def TD by Clowney as well.

The guy is causing lots of problems for opposing defenses every week. Pretty much the only guy that other teams have to game plan around.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

When we get to the off-season we will have plenty of cap room either by what we have now, or what cuts we make at that time by JS and PC. I don't know why people are worried about this round now.

Did you read this as worried? I read it as a question. More curiosity. But also a means to help understand how cap manipulation works or might look.

Personally , I don't give a damn about anything to do with cap space or FA signings right now, but do care a lot about this season. We are in a race to not only get the division crown, but possibly a first round bye and even HFA for the playoffs. Why is this subject even being discussed right now?

I don't see how the subject line was some kind of trap. Seems pretty transparent.

Forget about this nonsense and focus on the season right now. That is where all your attention should be. Please!

Well, I don't think that my/our focus really has any tangible impact on how the season plays out. There are hundreds of active posters on this board and their interests in the team fall all over the spectrum.

As fans, it's pretty easy/painless to multi task and think about multiple aspects of the team. The ability to think about/follow how the cap works, how comp pick formula works re: UFAs and the 10th week, how cap strategy works and even follow/watch CFB closely to identify next year's draft prospects, doesn't detract from enjoying the season as it unfolds.

We all have our pet peeves. My personal bugbear is 'list season'. Usually prefaced inseason as 'MVP threads'. I don't really care how those work out or go. But I find it's just easiest to not participate in them, rather than to try and poison the thread that other fans feel passionate about or enjoy.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Forget about this nonsense and focus on the season right now. That is where all your attention should be. Please!

You know none of us are on the actual team right? We can totally talk about this season, AND next season's interesting topics, and it literally affects nothing.

 

[Largent80]

Clowney would be the cornerstone of the line. If Reed beasts for the last 6 games and the playoffs he may price himself out regardless of his suspension. I think it would be awesome to try and get Fowler to pair with Clowney.
Think Bennett/Avril.

 

[Subzero717]

On the other hand those things arent happening. Ints, sacks etc. We had a multiple game stretch with no sacks.

Pressures, QB hits, FF, INTs are happening.

5-6 INTs over that stretch of Week 3-9

2 FF and 2 Def TD by Clowney as well.

The guy is causing lots of problems for opposing defenses every week. Pretty much the only guy that other teams have to game plan around.

We are a bottom tier defense. 28th vs the pass. Bottom end in virtually every category. Now thats not all his fault yet when sonething good hapoens its not all because of him either.

 

[Subzero717]

Clowney would be the cornerstone of the line. If Reed beasts for the last 6 games and the playoffs he may price himself out regardless of his suspension. I think it would be awesome to try and get Fowler to pair with Clowney.
Think Bennett/Avril.

So Clowney gets better when Reed comes back but we need to keep Clowney and Reed leaves? Hmmmm.

 

[Subzero717]

I know Im in the minority but I just cant reconcile paying Clowney 20 mill. Not with his injury history. Not with his lack of sack production. He had a fantastic game against SF but wgere was that weeks 3-9?

https://sports.mynorthwest.com/723334/s ... n-clowney/

His teamates arent getting sacks either. Add his injury history. I'll pass.

To keep elite talent in the NFL, you have to overspend. And when you do, there will come a day where the player isn’t worth that overpay. You’re paying based on past performances more than for the future.

This is where the article defeats its own cause. Weve done this and its backfired. Also, he didnt do it here. This isnt Bobby where we chose to WAY overpay based on sentiment for what he has meant to us. Hes had an okay season with one monster game. We dont owe him thst and frankly thsts not how championships are won.


Take a look at the highest-paid pass rushers in the NFL, and their actual production:

• Khalil Mack: 6 years, $141 million (5.5 sacks through 9 games)
• Aaron Donald: 6 years, $135 million (5.5 sacks through 9 games)
• Von Miller: 6 years, $114.1 million (4 sacks through 9 games)
• DeMarcus Lawrence: 5 years, $105 million (4.5 sacks through 9 games)
• Frank Clark: 5 years, $104 million (4 sacks through 8 games)
• Fletcher Cox: 6 years, $106.2 million (2.5 sacks through 9 games)
• J.J. Watt: 6 years, $100 million (4 sacks through 8 games before a season-ending injury)
• Trey Flowers: 5 years, $90 million (5 sacks through 9 games)
• Dee Ford: 5 years, $85.5 million (5.5 sacks through 9 games)
• Olivier Vernon: 5 years, $85 million (3 sacks through 8 games)


Again he is proving how dumb his point is. Outside of maybe the top 3 guys how many office are providing that value? What happens when that guy gets hurt like Watt is?

Im fine brining Clowney back but not st the numbers being thrown around in the 20 mill plus range.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Again, there is a LOT more to the position than the amount of sacks. If people only go by sacks, they're going to be complaining about Clowney his entire career. You pay for how disruptive the guy, and he's one of the most disruptive players in the entire league, period.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

We are a bottom tier defense. 28th vs the pass. Bottom end in virtually every category. Now thats not all his fault yet when sonething good hapoens its not all because of him either.

Of course. But if you're going to rebuild, you have to start with some quality parts.

There really isn't a lot of other defensive talent on the roster that will compete with his deal on the defensive side. And it's worth understanding, that Seattle may very well be better served by adding offensive players in the draft. Particularly at WR, where we seem to have a glut of talent today. This years' class is significantly better than 2014's. Seattle would be ideally suited to adding a potential replacement for Lockett from this group. There are maybe 6 Lockett type WRs in this class to choose from that all should have top 75 overall grades. It may seem far too early to be thinking this, but remember, Lockett's second contract expires in 27 months. Adding a WR this year gives him 2 seasons to develop, which is generally about how long a WR typically requires to acclimate to the NFL.

Additionally, there are good RB prospects in this class. For certain, Penny hasn't panned out. Also Carson is about to go UFA. Signing RBs to second deals is a very sketchy proposition. Seattle should rightly be in the market for a day 2 prospect here.

Also, it's possible that a quality OT drops to the latter part of this draft. We will be in the market for replacing Ifedi. Certainly if an OT happens to fall into their laps, they'll almost be obligated to select him. Should that happen, it's easily conceivable that Seattle goes offense 1-2-3 in their selections.

Right now, the talent in the class appears aligned to strongly address the offense. It's a class where going defensive is swimming against the tide of available talent. And Seattle can't hope to continue to Penny/Maglik/Pocic their drafts and remain contenders. They need to start getting quality stars from the top of their drafts. So retention of defensive talent may align better with the associated draft outlook. Staying cheap on that side of the ball allows you to spend on the other. We're much more likely to get an approximate equivalent to what we currently enjoy via the draft on that side. Whereas we're more than likely to see an LJ Collier type talent on the defensive side or worse.

Draft class strengths should influence UFA strategy. Particularly since the UFA period precedes the draft. So it's important to understand that Clowney's potential deal doesn't exist in a vacuum. On a team with available cap space, with significant needs both imminent and on the horizon, and the understanding that resigning your own UFAs don't factor in to potential comp picks with guys we are expecting to lose -- the total value of being the highest bidder for Clowney is greater for us than for most other teams.

 

[chris98251]

Doesn't have ten sacks so must be a bust, need the damn sacks to be worth while, pressures and hurries mean nothing, need the damn sack. Has to be one of the biggest bust F.A signings ever with not enough sacks.

 

[sutz]

Doesn't have ten sacks so must be a bust, need the damn sacks to be worth while, pressures and hurries mean nothing, need the damn sack. Has to be one of the biggest bust F.A signings ever with not enough sacks.

I blame Fantasy Football. Unless it leads to individual stats, it doesn't matter, apparently. :34853_doh:

 

[Largent80]

Pass rushing DE's are like QB's. Not a tree with low hanging fruit available. If you can pick it, DO IT.

 

[HawkStrong]

On the other hand those things arent happening. Ints, sacks etc. We had a multiple game stretch with no sacks.

Pressures, QB hits, FF, INTs are happening.

5-6 INTs over that stretch of Week 3-9

2 FF and 2 Def TD by Clowney as well.

The guy is causing lots of problems for opposing defenses every week. Pretty much the only guy that other teams have to game plan around.

We are a bottom tier defense. 28th vs the pass. Bottom end in virtually every category. Now thats not all his fault yet when sonething good hapoens its not all because of him either.

Just keep moving those goalposts.

 

[pmedic920]

Again, there is a LOT more to the position than the amount of sacks. If people only go by sacks, they're going to be complaining about Clowney his entire career. You pay for how disruptive the guy, and he's one of the most disruptive players in the entire league, period.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Subzero717]

On the other hand those things arent happening. Ints, sacks etc. We had a multiple game stretch with no sacks.

Pressures, QB hits, FF, INTs are happening.

5-6 INTs over that stretch of Week 3-9

2 FF and 2 Def TD by Clowney as well.

The guy is causing lots of problems for opposing defenses every week. Pretty much the only guy that other teams have to game plan around.

We are a bottom tier defense. 28th vs the pass. Bottom end in virtually every category. Now thats not all his fault yet when sonething good hapoens its not all because of him either.

Just keep moving those goalposts.

Moving goal posts? We are 28th in defense. Thats a fact. We are bottom tier in virtually every defensive category. Thats a fact.

 

[Subzero717]

Doesn't have ten sacks so must be a bust, need the damn sacks to be worth while, pressures and hurries mean nothing, need the damn sack. Has to be one of the biggest bust F.A signings ever with not enough sacks.

I blame Fantasy Football. Unless it leads to individual stats, it doesn't matter, apparently. :34853_doh:

Fantasty football and such is literally the only reason there are made up stats like pressures and hurries. They have no tangible impact. I mentioned it in another thread but Derek Carr has a passer rating of 109 when under pressure. Im guessing but his passer rating is probably lower when he gets sacked. :sarcasm_on:

 

[HawkStrong]

Pressures, QB hits, FF, INTs are happening.

5-6 INTs over that stretch of Week 3-9

2 FF and 2 Def TD by Clowney as well.

The guy is causing lots of problems for opposing defenses every week. Pretty much the only guy that other teams have to game plan around.

We are a bottom tier defense. 28th vs the pass. Bottom end in virtually every category. Now thats not all his fault yet when sonething good hapoens its not all because of him either.

Just keep moving those goalposts.

Moving goal posts? We are 28th in defense. Thats a fact. We are bottom tier in virtually every defensive category. Thats a fact.

You said that we weren't getting INTs, sacks, etc. I showed that we were getting INTs, fumbles, and TDs. You then came back with the defense is 28th in the league. Those aren't the same thing. Clowney can have impact and the defense can still not be very good overall, they aren't mutually exclusive.

Now I will grant you that we haven't been good on defense, but tying that to Clowney's value isn't accurate. Clowney has been a force, easily the best defender on the field in a lot of games. At the same time, very few players are good enough to elevate teammates like Ansah.


Also, just for your edification: I looked it up, we had two games in a row without sacks (CLE, LAR). The only other game without recording a sack was against NO. They haven't been great obviously, but at least be honest about what they have done.

 

[kf3339]

When we get to the off-season we will have plenty of cap room either by what we have now, or what cuts we make at that time by JS and PC. I don't know why people are worried about this round now.

Personally , I don't give a damn about anything to do with cap space or FA signings right now, but do care a lot about this season. We are in a race to not only get the division crown, but possibly a first round bye and even HFA for the playoffs. Why is this subject even being discussed right now?

Forget about this nonsense and focus on the season right now. That is where all your attention should be. Please!

I totally agree but you know this place..There are some who worry about next season
even if were playing in the SB lol.
There are others who can't stop harping on the past no matter what.
You should know you are not going to convert any of them just saying.

Yep, should have stayed out of this thread.