Excitement around the Waldron offense

[John63]

We will have to agree to disagree. He admitted last year he meddled after the game where Russ threw some damaging interceptions.

I don't think he actually calls the plays though. He admitted that he vetoed a Shotty play call on 4th and 1. More of an exception, I would imagine, than the norm some people think it to be.

there is more than just calling plays to were you can interfere in an offense. For example no more throwing on first down, he did that a few years ago. His stamp has been on the offense scheme at some point every year, and is some cases in a big way. He needs so just stay out of it.

I remember the run, run, pass on empty sets, then punt, days. But are you sure Pete mandated this? Do you have sources and links to back this up?

Even if he did mandate this, it's all irrelevant at this point. This new SW offense HAS to be different. Pete is no fool. He knows he must innovate or die, if he wants to remain competitive in this league. Shotty wasn't all horrible, and did some good things, but keeping Shotty around meant the offense reached its ceiling. It meant his QB reached his ceiling in that offense.

Now Pete is betting on a rookie OC to take them to the next level. This is a huge gamble - the offense could turn out great, or there is a chance it might not work. It's really going to come down to how well Russ and the rest of the offense has command of it.

well for one PC is that big a fool that it took him this long to realize all this. AS to the run, run pass I never said that. I used other examples and there have been plenty of links supporting his involvement in the offense to the determent of the offense.

 

[hoxrox]

well for one PC is that big a fool that it took him this long to realize all this. AS to the run, run pass I never said that. I used other examples and there have been plenty of links supporting his involvement in the offense to the determent of the offense.

Plenty, yet you can't provide one. Par for the course. :lol:

 

[Sports Hernia]

Sounds too good to be true, hope I’m dead wrong about that. Pete needs to keep himself from meddling in the offense. Odds of that happening are long.

Odds of that happening are zero. Pete has never called plays. You're safe! :2thumbs:

We will have to agree to disagree. He admitted last year he meddled after the game where Russ threw some damaging interceptions.

I don't think he actually calls the plays though. He admitted that he vetoed a Shotty play call on 4th and 1. More of an exception, I would imagine, than the norm some people think it to be.

I’m lumping in calling plays and his sudden change in offensive ideology as “meddling”.
Sorry for the confusion. My poorly structured point is that Pete needs to let his offensive coordinator do his job without sticking his fingers in the cookie jar. Delegate and let the OC sink or swim on their own.

I don’t mind Pete meddling as much on the defense, as I think he’s a better defensive mind than an offensive mind.

 

[John63]

well for one PC is that big a fool that it took him this long to realize all this. AS to the run, run pass I never said that. I used other examples and there have been plenty of links supporting his involvement in the offense to the determent of the offense.

Plenty, yet you can't provide one. Par for the course. :lol:

I don't need to he admitted to it this last season it has been posted all over this forum go find it. Intact he changed the whole offense and admitted to it.

 

[John63]

Odds of that happening are zero. Pete has never called plays. You're safe! :2thumbs:

We will have to agree to disagree. He admitted last year he meddled after the game where Russ threw some damaging interceptions.

I don't think he actually calls the plays though. He admitted that he vetoed a Shotty play call on 4th and 1. More of an exception, I would imagine, than the norm some people think it to be.

I’m lumping in calling plays and his sudden change in offensive ideology as “meddling”.
Sorry for the confusion. My poorly structured point is that Pete needs to let his offensive coordinator do his job without sticking his fingers in the cookie jar. Delegate and let the OC sink or swim on their own.

I don’t mind Pete meddling as much on the defense, as I think he’s a better defensive mind than an offensive mind.

I agree

 

[keasley45]

Sounds too good to be true, hope I’m dead wrong about that. Pete needs to keep himself from meddling in the offense. Odds of that happening are long.

Odds of that happening are zero. Pete has never called plays. You're safe! :2thumbs:

We will have to agree to disagree. He admitted last year he meddled after the game where Russ threw some damaging interceptions.

He admitted not wanting to go along with the call to go for it on 4th down and instead wanted to kick a field goal. He delayed the playcall by pushing a discussion on what to do to the point we had a delay of game. It didn't look good, but he could have also just said, 'screw this, we aren't going for. Kick the damn field goal'. He didn't. And now because he admitted to actually not agreeing with the play call, that moment becomes the basis for his meddling.

The HC has the authority to decide things like that, just as he does the authority to direct the offense to assume a certain approach, if the current approach isn't successful. Same on defense.

If we fail this season I think the reason why will be much more obvious than in season's past. We have the talent at the key positions. We have a solid Oline that was described in the Athletic as perhaps the best Russ has played behind.

Ball needs to get out on time, in rhythm to the guy who is open.

 

[keasley45]

We will have to agree to disagree. He admitted last year he meddled after the game where Russ threw some damaging interceptions.

I don't think he actually calls the plays though. He admitted that he vetoed a Shotty play call on 4th and 1. More of an exception, I would imagine, than the norm some people think it to be.

I’m lumping in calling plays and his sudden change in offensive ideology as “meddling”.
Sorry for the confusion. My poorly structured point is that Pete needs to let his offensive coordinator do his job without sticking his fingers in the cookie jar. Delegate and let the OC sink or swim on their own.

I don’t mind Pete meddling as much on the defense, as I think he’s a better defensive mind than an offensive mind.

I agree

Was he meddling when he took us to two straight superbowls?? Or was that before he stuck his nose in and messed everything up?

There are no more excuses. We upgraded the line and the line last year was far better than what many here want to believe. We added a 3rd wr with explosiveness. We are adding to the TE group, and we have a trio of players at the RB position that are also above average. This team has more on offense than 90% of the league at minimum. And on top of that we added a play caller from the tree of the guy who's offense has roasted us and most of the rest of the league over the last few seasons.

The truth should now be plain to see. And hopefully for all of us here, the one truth will be that we had a season for the ages that resulted in a 2nd Lombardi.

 

[AgentDib]

There were a couple of time management issues on offense last season and Pete took the blame for that on himself rather than throwing anybody under the bus. That's the source of this "Pete meddles in the offense" storyline because it gave people with ulterior motives but no football sense a talking point to use.

Suddenly you saw people talking about "Pete's playbook" or what kind of plays he might call, despite him not having a play card in his hand on Sundays. Do posters actually think that Pete just memorizes 100 plays like "Scatter to West Right Tight F Left 372 Y Stick Z Spot" every week? Of course not. Schotty called every single play last season with the exception of a couple when the headsets were down and Russ called them.

Pete's involvement in the offense is at a high level and that is the responsibility of every head coach. Should the team go for it on fourth down, is player X getting enough involvement, is the run/pass ratio following what was designed in the game plan, or is this a good situation to try trick play Y.

Having a head coach involved in all three phases of the game is important because those phases are highly dependent on each other. Whether you are seeking risk or avoiding risk in each phase depends on how the other areas of the team are performing, and there are important psychological impacts that affect all sides that many people completely ignore.

Many of the hot takes and napkin analytics you will see on places like Seahawks twitter treat the offense like it is an independent entity with the objective function of maximizing EPA. That is a poor way of looking at it; the real goal is to win games.

My poorly structured point is that Pete needs to let his offensive coordinator do his job without sticking his fingers in the cookie jar. Delegate and let the OC sink or swim on their own... I don’t mind Pete meddling as much on the defense, as I think he’s a better defensive mind than an offensive mind.

In my view this is backwards. It's important to have an independent head coach at the top making decisions that maximize win probability rather than offensive efficiency or defensive efficiency. You don't want the OC or the DC to be making those decisions because they are personally invested in their side of the football.

Pete's involvement with the defense creates an incentive for him to lean too far in that direction, and the team is strongest when we've had strong DCs that can involve Pete in the planning but run the show themselves on gameday and let Pete focus on the big picture.

 

[hoxrox]

Odds of that happening are zero. Pete has never called plays. You're safe! :2thumbs:

We will have to agree to disagree. He admitted last year he meddled after the game where Russ threw some damaging interceptions.

I don't think he actually calls the plays though. He admitted that he vetoed a Shotty play call on 4th and 1. More of an exception, I would imagine, than the norm some people think it to be.

I’m lumping in calling plays and his sudden change in offensive ideology as “meddling”.
Sorry for the confusion. My poorly structured point is that Pete needs to let his offensive coordinator do his job without sticking his fingers in the cookie jar. Delegate and let the OC sink or swim on their own.

I don’t mind Pete meddling as much on the defense, as I think he’s a better defensive mind than an offensive mind.

Generally I agree with what you're saying. He does need to let the OC do his thing.

I think this narrative may a bit overblown, however, if we're talking about last season. After the 4-game stretch where Russ was a turnover machine, I'm not sure how much they changed the offense at all. They didn't necessarily run the ball more. Or even run it more on first down. So what changed in the ideology?

I did see the turnovers go away, so at least Pete fixed that. They just couldn't adjust to deep coverage, and they became too predictable and one-dimensional.

Shotty couldn't solve for that issue, and Russ didn't really adapt either by taking what the defense was giving him..

So Pete knew a change had to be made. Enter Shane Waldron.

 

[John63]

We will have to agree to disagree. He admitted last year he meddled after the game where Russ threw some damaging interceptions.

I don't think he actually calls the plays though. He admitted that he vetoed a Shotty play call on 4th and 1. More of an exception, I would imagine, than the norm some people think it to be.

I’m lumping in calling plays and his sudden change in offensive ideology as “meddling”.
Sorry for the confusion. My poorly structured point is that Pete needs to let his offensive coordinator do his job without sticking his fingers in the cookie jar. Delegate and let the OC sink or swim on their own.

I don’t mind Pete meddling as much on the defense, as I think he’s a better defensive mind than an offensive mind.

Generally I agree with what you're saying. He does need to let the OC do his thing.

I think this narrative may a bit overblown, however, if we're talking about last season. After the 4-game stretch where Russ was a turnover machine, I'm not sure how much they changed the offense at all. They didn't necessarily run the ball more. Or even run it more on first down. So what changed in the ideology?

I did see the turnovers go away, so at least Pete fixed that. They just couldn't adjust to deep coverage, and they became too predictable and one-dimensional.

Shotty couldn't solve for that issue, and Russ didn't really adapt either by taking what the defense was giving him..

So Pete knew a change had to be made. Enter Shane Waldron.

ahh if you're giving PC the credit for taking the TOs away then he has to have made a chance of some kind. FYI the quick stuff over the middle was removed as an example of a change made

 

[keasley45]

We will have to agree to disagree. He admitted last year he meddled after the game where Russ threw some damaging interceptions.

I don't think he actually calls the plays though. He admitted that he vetoed a Shotty play call on 4th and 1. More of an exception, I would imagine, than the norm some people think it to be.

I’m lumping in calling plays and his sudden change in offensive ideology as “meddling”.
Sorry for the confusion. My poorly structured point is that Pete needs to let his offensive coordinator do his job without sticking his fingers in the cookie jar. Delegate and let the OC sink or swim on their own.

I don’t mind Pete meddling as much on the defense, as I think he’s a better defensive mind than an offensive mind.

Generally I agree with what you're saying. He does need to let the OC do his thing.

I think this narrative may a bit overblown, however, if we're talking about last season. After the 4-game stretch where Russ was a turnover machine, I'm not sure how much they changed the offense at all. They didn't necessarily run the ball more. Or even run it more on first down. So what changed in the ideology?

I did see the turnovers go away, so at least Pete fixed that. They just couldn't adjust to deep coverage, and they became too predictable and one-dimensional.

Shotty couldn't solve for that issue, and Russ didn't really adapt either by taking what the defense was giving him..

So Pete knew a change had to be made. Enter Shane Waldron.

This. Nice post.

 

[HawkinNY]

Superbowl!!!!!!!!!!

Russ beats Brady in the NFCCG in front of a rocking home crowd.

Hawks win SB Handedly

Russ Signs extension.

Only way Russ stays longer is if that happens.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[John63]

Superbowl!!!!!!!!!!

Russ beats Brady in the NFCCG in front of a rocking home crowd.

Hawks win SB Handedly

Russ Signs extension.

Only way Russ stays longer is if that happens.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't agree at all, If we just get father than we have been and the offense plays up to speed he stays. If we are 1 and done and PC gets back involved in the offense and neuters it then he is gone and or makes bone headed coaching choices during the playoff game he is gone.

 

[TwistedHusky]

We need this to work.

Our substandard DC is going to hold this team back.

The only shot is scoring 28+ points a game. We have the ability to do this, it just depends whether Carroll can keep from meddling or repeating his tendency to turtleup the offense in the playoffs.

But you never know.

 

[LTH]

I am either cautiously optimistic or pessimistically hopeful on this one.

Zero chance it will be as good as the 1st half last year, but if we can make it effective in the 2nd half of this coming season...everyone will be excited.

That last 1/4 of the season is always the issue.

Fingers crossed.

I happen to agree I'm thinking it's not going to be lights out right away... its going to take some time to get good at this new O... there is a lot of hype and Im skeptical... maybe im wrong but I'm hoping for the D to be really good and carry the O until they get rolling... just my take


LTH

 

[hoxrox]

I happen to agree I'm thinking it's not going to be lights out right away... its going to take some time to get good at this new O... there is a lot of hype and Im skeptical... maybe im wrong but I'm hoping for the D to be really good and carry the O until they get rolling... just my take


LTH

There's going to be an adjustment period and learning curve. I'd be surprised if they start off hot right out the gate.

Russ himself said the new offense is "super complex." I hope it's not too complex... it's going to require he make reads at the line, make quick decisions, communicate effectively and make sure everyone is on the same page.

As for the D, I expect them to be improved over last season for sure - a top 10 unit.

 

[chris98251]

The D is already better, we have more pass rush then last year, we have our safety's in place, Reed is back, Amadi is back two guys that played extensively on the Corners for us. Competition for upgrades have been brought in with several players, Nickel and Dime should be a lot better with the fall out of that competition. Blair and Neal and Amadi all in the competition for the Nickel and Dime packages and that does not include Witherspoon and Will Sunderland, Damarious Randall and others.

Defense should be a lot more aggressive.

Offense, that's going to take a lot of repetition and everyone there as well as film study to correct read errors and sync up TE, RB,WR, to QB reads based on defensive alignments and defender positioning.

If they are given flexibility to cut off routes, change depth and cuts then that has to be practiced and practiced some more.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I don't think he actually calls the plays though. He admitted that he vetoed a Shotty play call on 4th and 1. More of an exception, I would imagine, than the norm some people think it to be.

I’m lumping in calling plays and his sudden change in offensive ideology as “meddling”.
Sorry for the confusion. My poorly structured point is that Pete needs to let his offensive coordinator do his job without sticking his fingers in the cookie jar. Delegate and let the OC sink or swim on their own.

I don’t mind Pete meddling as much on the defense, as I think he’s a better defensive mind than an offensive mind.

Generally I agree with what you're saying. He does need to let the OC do his thing.

I think this narrative may a bit overblown, however, if we're talking about last season. After the 4-game stretch where Russ was a turnover machine, I'm not sure how much they changed the offense at all. They didn't necessarily run the ball more. Or even run it more on first down. So what changed in the ideology?

I did see the turnovers go away, so at least Pete fixed that. They just couldn't adjust to deep coverage, and they became too predictable and one-dimensional.

Shotty couldn't solve for that issue, and Russ didn't really adapt either by taking what the defense was giving him..

So Pete knew a change had to be made. Enter Shane Waldron.

ahh if you're giving PC the credit for taking the TOs away then he has to have made a chance of some kind. FYI the quick stuff over the middle was removed as an example of a change made

Do you have any sort of link or film study that supports that viewpoint? I don't think passing over the middle of the field was categorically outlawed. That's absurd.

 

[John63]

I’m lumping in calling plays and his sudden change in offensive ideology as “meddling”.
Sorry for the confusion. My poorly structured point is that Pete needs to let his offensive coordinator do his job without sticking his fingers in the cookie jar. Delegate and let the OC sink or swim on their own.

I don’t mind Pete meddling as much on the defense, as I think he’s a better defensive mind than an offensive mind.

Generally I agree with what you're saying. He does need to let the OC do his thing.

I think this narrative may a bit overblown, however, if we're talking about last season. After the 4-game stretch where Russ was a turnover machine, I'm not sure how much they changed the offense at all. They didn't necessarily run the ball more. Or even run it more on first down. So what changed in the ideology?

I did see the turnovers go away, so at least Pete fixed that. They just couldn't adjust to deep coverage, and they became too predictable and one-dimensional.

Shotty couldn't solve for that issue, and Russ didn't really adapt either by taking what the defense was giving him..

So Pete knew a change had to be made. Enter Shane Waldron.

ahh if you're giving PC the credit for taking the TOs away then he has to have made a chance of some kind. FYI the quick stuff over the middle was removed as an example of a change made

Do you have any sort of link or film study that supports that viewpoint? I don't think passing over the middle of the field was categorically outlawed. That's absurd.

Ahh again has been put on this forum alot already go find it, do you have any film it was PC who took away the Tos? FYi look at the first 6 games and see how many quick hitters and throws over the middle and then look at last 10 you will notice the difference.

 

[hoxrox]

ahh if you're giving PC the credit for taking the TOs away then he has to have made a chance of some kind. FYI the quick stuff over the middle was removed as an example of a change made

Do you have any sort of link or film study that supports that viewpoint? I don't think passing over the middle of the field was categorically outlawed. That's absurd.

Of course there is no evidence to back up this claim. Think it was pulled out of thin air, or from you-know-where. :lol: