From a player perspective how r we any better than last yr?

Appyhawk

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Anything that reduces pressure on your QB improves the offense. Adding Jackson to our line is a move that, alone, makes our offense better than it was.
That our defense is better than it was is debatable. So much depends on continuity and communication. We will need to have an exceptionally good pre-season training period to form our new staff and roster into a cohesive unit, but the same is true of most teams we have to compete with.
The changes we have made, together with the retentions we have managed, will make for a very interesting season this year. There is always hope involved in offseason maneuvers, but it's what happens on the field that determines whether or not we will maintain, or build on, our level of success.
It's Kool-Aid time!
 

kf3339

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Our lines are better than last year to this point. That in itself makes this off-season a win for me.

Reed was good, but could also disappear in games. For his salary cost that wasn't acceptable. I think Mone will get even better and play more of a part in run defense. Who knows what JS and PC have coming in the next few weeks. Perhaps Atkins wants to play on a potential contender and Dunlap is recruiting him. He is 33 and never even had a chance to play for a SB. Money may not be his issue at that age. One can hope!

Jackson will transform our O-line into a solid unit. LG was our biggest weakness last year. We need two young rookies at OC and OT in the draft. The OT to learn under Brown would be ideal. But a 2nd round OC pick could supplant Pocic by mid season at the latest. Things could look really good by the end of next season. At least I hope so!
 

Sgt. Largent

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kf3339":2a7fu7a6 said:
Our lines are better than last year to this point. That in itself makes this off-season a win for me!

This.

In the modern NFL it's all about the lines.......and IMO at least on paper our lines are better.

Still worried about our cornerback and LB situation. So that's the next veteran signing I'd like to see, a CB.
 

TheLegendOfBoom

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Moving forward I believe Carroll is placing an emphasis at 5 tech.

If you can’t collapse the pocket consistently from the inside out, he’s going to build with a collection of outside rushers and force the QB step in to throw with 1 and 3 techs occupying space with containment, closing running lanes and not necessarily rushing the QB.

I feel this is his strategy and he’s building the team with the salary cap in mind to have more “outside” rushers than inside guys. The quality inside guys are usually more difficult to find so he’s not going to attempt to build that way.

Has Seattle gotten better from this particular way of building a pass rush? Yes.

We’ve seen the impact Dunlap has made and it’s adding to what Dunlap can do with Hyder and keeping depth with Mayowa and hopefully, Robinson can develop more, and Taylor can make an impact similar to a young Bruce Irvin.

That’s enough of an improvement that letting Jarran Reed go with the intention of stacking more outside help, totally worth it.

We’ll have to wait and see.

Seattle is nowhere near finished with this subtractions and acquisitions.
 

pinksheets

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We're somewhere between slightly better and slightly worse, depends on how big of a difference Jackson makes, how much losing Reed hurts, and what impact Hyder has. There's also more to come, so we'll see.

Can't really expect a huge leap forward on talent when we have little cap space and already spent most of our draft capital.
 

Rat

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Hopefully we are better because the Niners just traded for the third pick in the draft.
 

keasley45

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seabowl":3rg9y14n said:
I've read through the comments so far and IMO there isn't one that convinces me that we are better.

Jackson on the OL is a very good upgrade. Everett is a good upgrade too but not tremendous when you look at him replacing both Hollister and Olsen. Hyder is a good player but losing Reed in the middle will hurt. Anyone thinking Witherspoon is an upgrade over Griffen is smoking something. Other then that everything else is pretty much the same as the end of last year's roster of who's left. Also those mentioning the emergence of players like Taylor, Collier, etc. I wouldn't get my hopes up. I did that with players like Rasheem Greene and he has turned out to be below average.

Look not trying to burst anyone's bubble but I'm just not putting on the rose colored glasses because this group has not improved on paper at least to this point as a whole IMO.

I dont think you can look at it simply through the lens of individual player acquisition. The way the FO sees it, its not just the new faces.

On the DL, its also the introduction of Darrel Taylor to a line that was already formidable toward the end of last year, albeit not as stout against the run as i would have liked - and the ripple effect that has in terms of current players switching roles (ie Collier moving inside). My wager is that they think Hyder will be able to do some of the same, and with Dunlap and Taylor on the edges, theres not a whole lot NOT to like about it.

In the secondary, its about the return of Marquis Blair, who by all accounts was a star waiting to erupt in a psuedo Bam Bam - light kind of way. The guy is a difference maker. And with him and Amadi on the field, i have to think they feel pretty good about the flexibility they have in coverage packages. Is Witherspoon the answer at CB, maybe not, but its not like Byron Maxwell was a superstar cover guy either. he was just a solid, solid player who had other measurables that fit the scheme and what the Hawks like to do. And you cant discount attitude and aggression either. thats one ingredient that the LOB had, regardless of talent... That 'edge'. Browner had it, Maxwell had it... the entire secondary played with it in the Hawks heyday. Thats the single biggest plus i see in losing Griffin. the guy was talented but didnt have the 'chip' that Hawk defenses thrive off of. No fire.

Also, Flowers showed considerable improvement as the season progressed. And Dunbar will have had a good 9 months to get right by the start of the season.

Not going to comment on the LB's as the KJ situation has yet to settle.

But overall on D... i think we made smart, strategic moves that will make our style of play much more effective. We've put talent AND aggression where we need it. We have guys coming off of injury that will be looking to prove themselves and new faces that come to us with some knowledge of what we run on D already.

But we need a big body to plug the middle.

On O, whats not to like? The single biggest factor here that makes us better is Waldron. Assuming he does what we think he's capable of, the O will be better with taht single move alone. We gave him a key piece at TE that i think will factor significantly in the playcalling. Plus Diss isback and will be a year removed from his major surgery, so i'd expect him to be better. And we get to see Parkinson, who by all accounts was an excellent pick

Having Carson at RB isnt just about his talent. Its about a style of play that energize the offense (along with DK) in the same way that Blair, Adams, Dunlap, and Reed do on defense.

The seahawks build as much around mental make up and 'fire' as any team ive ever seen. When we were best, we had ADB who wouldnt back down from anyone and an entire receiving core that played with a chip. There was Marshawn who challenged opposing team's manhood on every carry ('nuff said). Enough maulers on the O-line to shift the balance of power late in games, and then just enough talent throughout to win.

The LOB (and entire D for that matter) was just a generational thing, but in terms of ingredients today? Adams, Blair, Reed, Diggs... thats a solid, solid mix of talent and fire. Dunbar can bring it as well... and flowers showed Spark. Witherspoon, if you read up on why he soured in SF, seems to have all the talent and ego to fit our system, biut floundered in SF due to confidence issues as a resulty of injury and a few bad games. Is that a positive sign for a corner? no. but i cant imagine a better place for a talented DB to land who might be lacking in that aspect than in the DB room with Adams, Diggs, Reed and the rest.

And the O-liine?

Brown
Jackson
Pocic
Lewis
Shell

Could the center be improved? sure. but whats not to like? Not only do we shore up the LG spot, but the group has a year together now. Consistency cannot be overestimated. My biggest concern is having Brown go down. if that happens, all bets are off.

So all in all, we are adding considerable talent in just getting guys back that we lost. Through FA'cy We are adding guys that might not have consistently lit the world on fire where they were, but by the 'Hawks measuring stick, will likely play above what they would on other rosters because of the unique traits they have and how they 'fit' into out system.

And on offense, we will have a scheme that other teams in the division wont know how to prepare for.

Key to all of this (i think) will be our ability to effectively run the ball and control the clock. That doesnt mean 3 runs and a cloud of dust every possession, but with the addition of Waldron, hopefully a rushing attack that can cut you like a scalpel and crush you like a sledgehammer. Then, a passing game that will have defenses constantly guessing and an attitude of its own with the fire that DK brings. i think the moves we've made will undoubtedly help us do that.

On D - we just have to be able to stop the run up the middle and also get pressure there. I think we are solid edge wise and above average on the back end. If the Offense can keep the ball for better than 30 minutes a game, I think we will be markedly better than we were last year... without Russ having to 'cook'.

In my opinion, this offseason has been nothing short of brilliant.
 

TAB420

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Rat":16f7jxs1 said:
Hopefully we are better because the Niners just traded for the third pick in the draft.
Yes...but did you see what they gave up for a unproven player? Talk about going all in.
 

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TAB420":8lqzhbe5 said:
Rat":8lqzhbe5 said:
Hopefully we are better because the Niners just traded for the third pick in the draft.
Yes...but did you see what they gave up for a unproven player? Talk about going all in.

Easily worth it if it nets them a high-end QB prospect. They must really like Fields and/or Wilson. Unless they have another insane year with injuries, those next few first rounders probably aren't going to be high ones.
 

TAB420

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Rat":2dk4h243 said:
TAB420":2dk4h243 said:
Rat":2dk4h243 said:
Hopefully we are better because the Niners just traded for the third pick in the draft.
Yes...but did you see what they gave up for a unproven player? Talk about going all in.

Easily worth it if it nets them a high-end QB prospect. They must really like Fields and/or Wilson. Unless they have another insane year with injuries, those next few first rounders probably aren't going to be high ones.
Exactly...IF! That's a lot to bet the farm on. Has there been a draft pick that has cost a team three 1st rounders before? This is the most given up for an unproven player then I can remember.
 

hoxrox

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IF they can get a good center in the draft, the o-line will have been upgraded.

And the D-line is starting to look good.

Prioritizing the trenches is always a smart move.
 

chris98251

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TAB420":lr3g97qn said:
Rat":lr3g97qn said:
TAB420":lr3g97qn said:
Rat":lr3g97qn said:
Hopefully we are better because the Niners just traded for the third pick in the draft.
Yes...but did you see what they gave up for a unproven player? Talk about going all in.

Easily worth it if it nets them a high-end QB prospect. They must really like Fields and/or Wilson. Unless they have another insane year with injuries, those next few first rounders probably aren't going to be high ones.
Exactly...IF! That's a lot to bet the farm on. Has there been a draft pick that has cost a team three 1st rounders before? This is the most given up for an unproven player then I can remember.

They could get Sam Bradford or a Herbert, odds are more Bradford types then Herbert out there, and Herbert is a one year wonder right now, he is getting a new system and coach etc, can he maintain what he started.
 

RockinHawks

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TAB420":3uh6syd4 said:
Rat":3uh6syd4 said:
TAB420":3uh6syd4 said:
Rat":3uh6syd4 said:
Hopefully we are better because the Niners just traded for the third pick in the draft.
Yes...but did you see what they gave up for a unproven player? Talk about going all in.

Easily worth it if it nets them a high-end QB prospect. They must really like Fields and/or Wilson. Unless they have another insane year with injuries, those next few first rounders probably aren't going to be high ones.
Exactly...IF! That's a lot to bet the farm on. Has there been a draft pick that has cost a team three 1st rounders before? This is the most given up for an unproven player then I can remember.

The Saints traded their ENTIRE draft for the #5 pick, to get Ricky Williams:

The Saints traded their first round, third round, fourth round, fifth round, sixth round, and seventh-round picks in the 1999 NFL Draft, and their first-round and third-round picks from the 2000 NFL Draft to the Washington Redskins for the fifth overall pick of the 1999 NFL Draft.

I know it's not three first rounders, but it's still a ton of draft capitol for the #5 pick in that draft.
 

FresnoHawk52

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[youtube]z0GECXcgMiw[/youtube]

Hyder when he’s on he’s hot & recovers fumbles.
 

toffee

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are we better?

QB :
If Wilson stays, then same otherwise worse.
RBs:
Worse without Carlos.
WR:
Better if DK improves, otherwise without David? Worse
TE:
Better
OL:
Better but Brown might regress due to age?

DL:
Better,
LB;
May be same?
DB:
Hard to say, at best same.

So are we better overall? At best marginally.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk
 

FresnoHawk52

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toffee":37gtbmuy said:
are we better?

QB :
If Wilson stays, then same otherwise worse.
RBs:
Worse without Carlos.
WR:
Better if DK improves, otherwise without David? Worse
TE:
Better
OL:
Better but Brown might regress due to age?

DL:
Better,
LB;
May be same?
DB:
Hard to say, at best same.

So are we better overall? At best marginally.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

Your dismissing all the young players and who knows what’s coming next. Things could get better or worse it’s too early to tell. Hyder has been streaky so we won’t know if he’s over come it and this is the new normal.

The draft has really good prospects in round 2 and good back ups through mid round 3. The fact that your asking the question is telling, usually it’s obvious they’re shooting for the Super Bowl.
 

Hawkpower

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The team was 12-4 last year....not sure there are huge, massive upgrades roster-wide to be had. The very premise of this thread is a bit of a strawman and set up to fail.

Although there are (always) areas to point to for improvement, what this team needs is to be firing on all cylinders come playoff time rather than any kind of huge talent upgrade that just isnt going to happen.

Tampa slogged through parts of their season too (hence the 4th seed)....the difference? They were on a roll by the time the playoffs started.
 
OP
OP
seabowl

seabowl

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Hawkpower":19huxuf9 said:
The team was 12-4 last year....not sure there are huge, massive upgrades roster-wide to be had. The very premise of this thread is a bit of a strawman and set up to fail.

Although there are (always) areas to point to for improvement, what this team needs is to be firing on all cylinders come playoff time rather than any kind of huge talent upgrade that just isnt going to happen.

Tampa slogged through parts of their season too (hence the 4th seed)....the difference? They were on a roll by the time the playoffs started.

As you said' it's not about 12-4 in the regular season but rather do they have the p!ayers to make a run vs what they had last year.

Tampa won the bowl because they had the best QB of all-time and had a lot of very good players especially on their lines. Our DL IMO still lacks a lot and our OL is average at best. Until these are vastly improved expect the same.

As I said originally the only way with this roster this team goes deep, is a major change in coaching philosophy which we have yet to see.
 

Hawkpower

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seabowl":25cvu0xp said:
Hawkpower":25cvu0xp said:
The team was 12-4 last year....not sure there are huge, massive upgrades roster-wide to be had. The very premise of this thread is a bit of a strawman and set up to fail.

Although there are (always) areas to point to for improvement, what this team needs is to be firing on all cylinders come playoff time rather than any kind of huge talent upgrade that just isnt going to happen.

Tampa slogged through parts of their season too (hence the 4th seed)....the difference? They were on a roll by the time the playoffs started.

As you said' it's not about 12-4 in the regular season but rather do they have the p!ayers to make a run vs what they had last year.

Tampa won the bowl because they had the best QB of all-time and had a lot of very good players especially on their lines. Our DL IMO still lacks a lot and our OL is average at best. Until these are vastly improved expect the same.

As I said originally the only way with this roster this team goes deep, is a major change in coaching philosophy which we have yet to see.


12-4 in the regular season demonstrates this is already one of the top rosters in the NFC. They don’t need massive upgrades, just key ones.

Tampa does not make the super bowl if the playoffs had started in November. They at that time were playing similarly to how the hawks ended up playing come playoff time.

You’re a smart fan so you know playoff success is all about playing your best football in January. We’ve seen enough 9-7 type teams do this over the years to know that’s true.

The Seahawks didn’t lose in the first round because their roster wasn’t good enough.
 

kf3339

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keasley45":3ic1kssm said:
seabowl":3ic1kssm said:
I've read through the comments so far and IMO there isn't one that convinces me that we are better.

Jackson on the OL is a very good upgrade. Everett is a good upgrade too but not tremendous when you look at him replacing both Hollister and Olsen. Hyder is a good player but losing Reed in the middle will hurt. Anyone thinking Witherspoon is an upgrade over Griffen is smoking something. Other then that everything else is pretty much the same as the end of last year's roster of who's left. Also those mentioning the emergence of players like Taylor, Collier, etc. I wouldn't get my hopes up. I did that with players like Rasheem Greene and he has turned out to be below average.

Look not trying to burst anyone's bubble but I'm just not putting on the rose colored glasses because this group has not improved on paper at least to this point as a whole IMO.

I dont think you can look at it simply through the lens of individual player acquisition. The way the FO sees it, its not just the new faces.

On the DL, its also the introduction of Darrel Taylor to a line that was already formidable toward the end of last year, albeit not as stout against the run as i would have liked - and the ripple effect that has in terms of current players switching roles (ie Collier moving inside). My wager is that they think Hyder will be able to do some of the same, and with Dunlap and Taylor on the edges, theres not a whole lot NOT to like about it.

In the secondary, its about the return of Marquis Blair, who by all accounts was a star waiting to erupt in a psuedo Bam Bam - light kind of way. The guy is a difference maker. And with him and Amadi on the field, i have to think they feel pretty good about the flexibility they have in coverage packages. Is Witherspoon the answer at CB, maybe not, but its not like Byron Maxwell was a superstar cover guy either. he was just a solid, solid player who had other measurables that fit the scheme and what the Hawks like to do. And you cant discount attitude and aggression either. thats one ingredient that the LOB had, regardless of talent... That 'edge'. Browner had it, Maxwell had it... the entire secondary played with it in the Hawks heyday. Thats the single biggest plus i see in losing Griffin. the guy was talented but didnt have the 'chip' that Hawk defenses thrive off of. No fire.

Also, Flowers showed considerable improvement as the season progressed. And Dunbar will have had a good 9 months to get right by the start of the season.

Not going to comment on the LB's as the KJ situation has yet to settle.

But overall on D... i think we made smart, strategic moves that will make our style of play much more effective. We've put talent AND aggression where we need it. We have guys coming off of injury that will be looking to prove themselves and new faces that come to us with some knowledge of what we run on D already.

But we need a big body to plug the middle.

On O, whats not to like? The single biggest factor here that makes us better is Waldron. Assuming he does what we think he's capable of, the O will be better with taht single move alone. We gave him a key piece at TE that i think will factor significantly in the playcalling. Plus Diss isback and will be a year removed from his major surgery, so i'd expect him to be better. And we get to see Parkinson, who by all accounts was an excellent pick

Having Carson at RB isnt just about his talent. Its about a style of play that energize the offense (along with DK) in the same way that Blair, Adams, Dunlap, and Reed do on defense.

The seahawks build as much around mental make up and 'fire' as any team ive ever seen. When we were best, we had ADB who wouldnt back down from anyone and an entire receiving core that played with a chip. There was Marshawn who challenged opposing team's manhood on every carry ('nuff said). Enough maulers on the O-line to shift the balance of power late in games, and then just enough talent throughout to win.

The LOB (and entire D for that matter) was just a generational thing, but in terms of ingredients today? Adams, Blair, Reed, Diggs... thats a solid, solid mix of talent and fire. Dunbar can bring it as well... and flowers showed Spark. Witherspoon, if you read up on why he soured in SF, seems to have all the talent and ego to fit our system, biut floundered in SF due to confidence issues as a resulty of injury and a few bad games. Is that a positive sign for a corner? no. but i cant imagine a better place for a talented DB to land who might be lacking in that aspect than in the DB room with Adams, Diggs, Reed and the rest.

And the O-liine?

Brown
Jackson
Pocic
Lewis
Shell

Could the center be improved? sure. but whats not to like? Not only do we shore up the LG spot, but the group has a year together now. Consistency cannot be overestimated. My biggest concern is having Brown go down. if that happens, all bets are off.

So all in all, we are adding considerable talent in just getting guys back that we lost. Through FA'cy We are adding guys that might not have consistently lit the world on fire where they were, but by the 'Hawks measuring stick, will likely play above what they would on other rosters because of the unique traits they have and how they 'fit' into out system.

And on offense, we will have a scheme that other teams in the division wont know how to prepare for.

Key to all of this (i think) will be our ability to effectively run the ball and control the clock. That doesnt mean 3 runs and a cloud of dust every possession, but with the addition of Waldron, hopefully a rushing attack that can cut you like a scalpel and crush you like a sledgehammer. Then, a passing game that will have defenses constantly guessing and an attitude of its own with the fire that DK brings. i think the moves we've made will undoubtedly help us do that.

On D - we just have to be able to stop the run up the middle and also get pressure there. I think we are solid edge wise and above average on the back end. If the Offense can keep the ball for better than 30 minutes a game, I think we will be markedly better than we were last year... without Russ having to 'cook'.

In my opinion, this offseason has been nothing short of brilliant.

This is a very well done write up of our off-season to date. I couldn't agree more with your assessments on both the O and D additions and potential scheme fits.

In addition, Al Woods is your plug in the middle for our D-Line. Not a youngster, but now well rested and more than likely injury free. I bet he has that same fire and edge you wrote about and will get the job done. He did it for us in 2019 more than once! :2thumbs:
 
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