Gregg Bell on Seattle's D

[LTH]

https://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/n ... 87872.html


I thought this was pretty spot on


Thoughts?

LTH

 

[jamescasey1124]

Dam good find. I have been preaching be better in the scheme for weeks on weeks. Now its coming in.

 

[LTH]

Dam good find. I have been preaching be better in the scheme for weeks on weeks. Now its coming in.

I just think its extremely hard for a defense to find their identity with all those injuries... I would say they have had to be very creative...


they kinda rolled the dice in getting JA and then having to wait to find a deal for a DE... we will see how it turns out but from what I see its making JS look like a stud GM...

The fact this team is 6-1 at this point is a really cool thing...


LTH

 

[PNW]

Yes great piece!! This is why the fire Norton crowd is way off. They’re under the impression that the defense would somehow magically change under another DC. It’s laughable and inaccurate.

 

[TwistedHusky]

The way they suddenly started using Wagner shows me that it isn't the players.

Our DC just does not have the intelligence or ability to use the players he has to the best of their ability.

We don't try to hide anything. We rarely adjust our approaches to the opponent.

We are easy to plan for because the opposing team knows exactly what we will do. That is on the DC.

I think that the Dunlap trade is going to make the biggest difference for us. Because Adams is a bit of a liability in coverage. We should get more pressure using Dunlap. That will help.

But we already have a stud MLB that would be a potent pass rusher in many other defenses. Watch us barely use him for that because we are terrified of giving up big plays. We used him yesterday because nobody is scared of Jimmy G, but I am not optimistic we can start blitzing more often like some of the better defenses in the league do (look at the blitz % of better defenses right now).

I just don't think our DC has the intellect to use the players he has in the best way. How can we expect that adding more players is going to fix the issues when the issue is more the DC than the players?

 

[LTH]

whats also interesting to me is Bobby's frustration... well... according to Gregg... He seems very short in his PC's...

I really like BW


LTH

 

[LTH]

The way they suddenly started using Wagner shows me that it isn't the players.

Our DC just does not have the intelligence or ability to use the players he has to the best of their ability.

We don't try to hide anything. We rarely adjust our approaches to the opponent.

We are easy to plan for because the opposing team knows exactly what we will do. That is on the DC.

I think that the Dunlap trade is going to make the biggest difference for us. Because Adams is a bit of a liability in coverage. We should get more pressure using Dunlap. That will help.

But we already have a stud MLB that would be a potent pass rusher in many other defenses. Watch us barely use him for that because we are terrified of giving up big plays. We used him yesterday because nobody is scared of Jimmy G, but I am not optimistic we can start blitzing more often like some of the better defenses in the league do (look at the blitz % of better defenses right now).

I just don't think our DC has the intellect to use the players he has in the best way. How can we expect that adding more players is going to fix the issues when the issue is more the DC than the players?

Why is it that you guys that dislike Norton cant understand that its Carrolls D?


LTH

 

[TwistedHusky]

LTH,

Different DCs under Carroll have put together different results.

It was not just the HOF players. Our defense looked different under Quinn than Bradley, and certainly Richard did decently even after losing half his great players in that AZ. None of them EVER looked as bad as Norton. All of them were still stuck running 'Carroll's Defense' and somehow still at least were not the worst DCs in the history of Seahawk football like Norton has been.

You can be better or worse when constrained by a system. We understand Carroll has a system he loves that kind of screws the defense right now. But Norton is slow to adjust, unimaginative, and frankly looks overmatched out there.

We won and a big part of that was the turnover his defense forced. But we still got into a bad habit of going into prevent that lost us the game last week. Norton is a problem no matter how you spin it. Our offense might be able to overcome him in the regular season but against the better teams in the playoffs he will probably be the reason we fail to advance.

 

[LTH]

LTH,

Different DCs under Carroll have put together different results.

It was not just the HOF players. Our defense looked different under Quinn than Bradley, and certainly Richard did decently even after losing half his great players in that AZ. None of them EVER looked as bad as Norton. All of them were still stuck running 'Carroll's Defense' and somehow still at least were not the worst DCs in the history of Seahawk football like Norton has been.

You can be better or worse when constrained by a system. We understand Carroll has a system he loves that kind of screws the defense right now. But Norton is slow to adjust, unimaginative, and frankly looks overmatched out there.

We won and a big part of that was the turnover his defense forced. But we still got into a bad habit of going into prevent that lost us the game last week. Norton is a problem no matter how you spin it. Our offense might be able to overcome him in the regular season but against the better teams in the playoffs he will probably be the reason we fail to advance.

Well I dont know whats really happening between Norton and Carroll... It's awfully tough to know what's happening just off of watching the game... clearly Carroll is very involved in the D...

Like I said before... Its difficult for a D to find its identity with all the injuries I see it as a game plan match up more than anything else...

Im not saying the D played lights out last week but I think the game loss was more because of the INT's...but I hear ya about going into prevent to early...


LTH

 

[AirStrike]

Norton was bad in Oakland and bad in Seattle. It'd be a catastrophic error to not go after Quinn this off-season assuming someone doesn't decide to give him another kick at a head coaching job.

 

[kf3339]

LTH,

Different DCs under Carroll have put together different results.

It was not just the HOF players. Our defense looked different under Quinn than Bradley, and certainly Richard did decently even after losing half his great players in that AZ. None of them EVER looked as bad as Norton. All of them were still stuck running 'Carroll's Defense' and somehow still at least were not the worst DCs in the history of Seahawk football like Norton has been.

You can be better or worse when constrained by a system. We understand Carroll has a system he loves that kind of screws the defense right now. But Norton is slow to adjust, unimaginative, and frankly looks overmatched out there.

We won and a big part of that was the turnover his defense forced. But we still got into a bad habit of going into prevent that lost us the game last week. Norton is a problem no matter how you spin it. Our offense might be able to overcome him in the regular season but against the better teams in the playoffs he will probably be the reason we fail to advance.

I think PC has to be much more hands on with Norton, compared to Quinn or Bradley. It's PC's defense, but they were more able to add their creative elements that made them so good at the DC job. That's why they both got HC jobs. It's also why that won't happen with Norton.

Norton follows PC's orders but clearly doesn't have the same abilities with scheme and in-game adjustments as those two previous DC's. PC has to make the player adjustments and scheme changes. You can see it when he is talking with Norton during games. PC is telling Norton what to do, and he is just following his orders. That may be what PC wants. Who knows.

 

[Seahawks8880]

The way they suddenly started using Wagner shows me that it isn't the players.

Our DC just does not have the intelligence or ability to use the players he has to the best of their ability.

We don't try to hide anything. We rarely adjust our approaches to the opponent.

We are easy to plan for because the opposing team knows exactly what we will do. That is on the DC.

I think that the Dunlap trade is going to make the biggest difference for us. Because Adams is a bit of a liability in coverage. We should get more pressure using Dunlap. That will help.

But we already have a stud MLB that would be a potent pass rusher in many other defenses. Watch us barely use him for that because we are terrified of giving up big plays. We used him yesterday because nobody is scared of Jimmy G, but I am not optimistic we can start blitzing more often like some of the better defenses in the league do (look at the blitz % of better defenses right now).

I just don't think our DC has the intellect to use the players he has in the best way. How can we expect that adding more players is going to fix the issues when the issue is more the DC than the players?

Spot on!

The way they suddenly started using Wagner shows me that it isn't the players.

Our DC just does not have the intelligence or ability to use the players he has to the best of their ability.

We don't try to hide anything. We rarely adjust our approaches to the opponent.

We are easy to plan for because the opposing team knows exactly what we will do. That is on the DC.

I think that the Dunlap trade is going to make the biggest difference for us. Because Adams is a bit of a liability in coverage. We should get more pressure using Dunlap. That will help.

But we already have a stud MLB that would be a potent pass rusher in many other defenses. Watch us barely use him for that because we are terrified of giving up big plays. We used him yesterday because nobody is scared of Jimmy G, but I am not optimistic we can start blitzing more often like some of the better defenses in the league do (look at the blitz % of better defenses right now).

I just don't think our DC has the intellect to use the players he has in the best way. How can we expect that adding more players is going to fix the issues when the issue is more the DC than the players?

Why is it that you guys that dislike Norton cant understand that its Carrolls D?


LTH

Do not buy into this BS. It's Carrol's team but the coaches has influences on how the team plays. It'd absolutely make no sense to hire them and have to call your own plays every time. Head coaches are dependent on coordinators to exploit insights on their opponents then lay out their best game plan.

Up until yesterday, most of us complained about injuries and lack of talent on defense were the main reasons. However, yesterday we played a bunch of so called replacement scrubs and had more pressure, hurries, and sacks than the last 4 games combined. I'm pretty certain that Carroll has lost a lot of trust in Norton especially when he had to come out and stated for changes after the loss to the Cardinals.

 

[PNW]

The way they suddenly started using Wagner shows me that it isn't the players.

Our DC just does not have the intelligence or ability to use the players he has to the best of their ability.

We don't try to hide anything. We rarely adjust our approaches to the opponent.

We are easy to plan for because the opposing team knows exactly what we will do. That is on the DC.

I think that the Dunlap trade is going to make the biggest difference for us. Because Adams is a bit of a liability in coverage. We should get more pressure using Dunlap. That will help.

But we already have a stud MLB that would be a potent pass rusher in many other defenses. Watch us barely use him for that because we are terrified of giving up big plays. We used him yesterday because nobody is scared of Jimmy G, but I am not optimistic we can start blitzing more often like some of the better defenses in the league do (look at the blitz % of better defenses right now).

I just don't think our DC has the intellect to use the players he has in the best way. How can we expect that adding more players is going to fix the issues when the issue is more the DC than the players?

Why is it that you guys that dislike Norton cant understand that its Carrolls D?


LTH

Bingo! Everyone saying Quinn would do better are hilarious! “When he was here he did good”, he inherited one of the greatest defenses ever assembled in their prime, hell anyone on the forum would have looked good in that situation. Pete’s scheme, Pete completely influences the game planning and makes on the fly calls during games, Pete is the HC/DC! He just has a representative acting as DC named Norton. Literally nothing would change with Quinn, nothing.

 

[TwistedHusky]

I'm going to bet that Quinn knows how to actually play real Prevent D, and does not fall into it near as early.

Also bet we get more pressure from Wagner and KJ, because Quinn sent them both more.

Admittedly, Bradley seemed to blitz more. But Quinn would be an upgrade over Norton.

Quinn was a great DC for us. Norton is literally the worst DC in Seahawk history. Worse than any DC ever, including the Ken Behring years. Not sure how Quinn doesn't improve over 'worst to ever exist for this franchise'.

Mathematically wouldn't that be almost impossible? Quinn not being a successful HC is not relevant. He was a successful DC in the NFL and a successful DC in college. Norton has never been successful anywhere. In fact, wasn't he fired before?

 

[HawkRiderFan]

He said the drop deep scheme worked against Fitz and Cousins but got shredded against Murray. It is as simple as saying that scheme does not work against QBs who will run? So as Carroll said, look for something similar to what we saw yesterday vs Josh Allen?

 

[LTH]

I'm going to bet that Quinn knows how to actually play real Prevent D, and does not fall into it near as early.

Also bet we get more pressure from Wagner and KJ, because Quinn sent them both more.

Admittedly, Bradley seemed to blitz more. But Quinn would be an upgrade over Norton.

Quinn was a great DC for us. Norton is literally the worst DC in Seahawk history. Worse than any DC ever, including the Ken Behring years. Not sure how Quinn doesn't improve over 'worst to ever exist for this franchise'.

Mathematically wouldn't that be almost impossible? Quinn not being a successful HC is not relevant. He was a successful DC in the NFL and a successful DC in college. Norton has never been successful anywhere. In fact, wasn't he fired before?

You have not addressed the point that Quinn had the best D players in Seahawk history... It's a completely different situation now... this is a reasonable point...

Norton walked into a depleted D that needed to be rebuilt... Im not saying Norton is better than Quinn I just think you guys are jumping the gun here... let Norton work it out before you bash him... there is more going on than any of us realize If Norton has issues Carroll will address it...Im not saying you shouldn't talk about it this is just my opinion...

Have you ever had a job and struggled with it and worked it out in the end... Norton is seeing some adversity right now lets see how he works through it... Isn't that the mark of a good coach?



LTH

 

[TwistedHusky]

If Norton had not gotten worse every year at DC? Maybe that would make sense LTH.

Go back and look at his numbers.

Yes, this year he dealt with adversity in injuries, as did 80% of the NFL this year. You know who also dealt with injuries? Richard, and he did a better job handling it.

Honestly, Norton has had a lot of chances. He just keeps underperforming. Not sure on 'fault' but results are lacking.

Go back and look at Norton's numbers as DC. Then look if he is progressing, getting better, or getting worse.

We are winning, despite this. But in the playoffs against better teams this will likely be a problem.

 

[Ambrose83]

I'm going to bet that Quinn knows how to actually play real Prevent D, and does not fall into it near as early.

Also bet we get more pressure from Wagner and KJ, because Quinn sent them both more.

Admittedly, Bradley seemed to blitz more. But Quinn would be an upgrade over Norton.

Quinn was a great DC for us. Norton is literally the worst DC in Seahawk history. Worse than any DC ever, including the Ken Behring years. Not sure how Quinn doesn't improve over 'worst to ever exist for this franchise'.

Mathematically wouldn't that be almost impossible? Quinn not being a successful HC is not relevant. He was a successful DC in the NFL and a successful DC in college. Norton has never been successful anywhere. In fact, wasn't he fired before?

Lmao real prevent d huh? Like the falcons sb?

 

[Seahawks8880]

The way they suddenly started using Wagner shows me that it isn't the players.

Our DC just does not have the intelligence or ability to use the players he has to the best of their ability.

We don't try to hide anything. We rarely adjust our approaches to the opponent.

We are easy to plan for because the opposing team knows exactly what we will do. That is on the DC.

I think that the Dunlap trade is going to make the biggest difference for us. Because Adams is a bit of a liability in coverage. We should get more pressure using Dunlap. That will help.

But we already have a stud MLB that would be a potent pass rusher in many other defenses. Watch us barely use him for that because we are terrified of giving up big plays. We used him yesterday because nobody is scared of Jimmy G, but I am not optimistic we can start blitzing more often like some of the better defenses in the league do (look at the blitz % of better defenses right now).

I just don't think our DC has the intellect to use the players he has in the best way. How can we expect that adding more players is going to fix the issues when the issue is more the DC than the players?

Why is it that you guys that dislike Norton cant understand that its Carrolls D?


LTH

Bingo! Everyone saying Quinn would do better are hilarious! “When he was here he did good”, he inherited one of the greatest defenses ever assembled in their prime, hell anyone on the forum would have looked good in that situation. Pete’s scheme, Pete completely influences the game planning and makes on the fly calls during games, Pete is the HC/DC! He just has a representative acting as DC named Norton. Literally nothing would change with Quinn, nothing.

No! It was the best Seahawks defense in its history was the fact after. This is more of a true testament on what Dan Quinn did to established that. Did we soon forget that our draft picks rated during that time was a big F? If you think this has nothing to do with coaching then you’re turning a blind eye.

 

[sc85sis]

We didn’t blitz as much against Murray because we’d have gotten killed with him running all over whenever he picked up the blitz.