If you had full control of the team what would you do?

[Welshers]

So I'm interested to see what people say on this one. If you were ownsership/JS and had full control of the team today, what would you do to try and make the most of our season going forward? I'm seeing a ton of negativity without any suggestions. It's understandable about the D considering we have been historically bad. I realize we aren't going to influence management here but I would just like to see what people think needs to be done.

I think firing KNJ is a start. Yes it's a mid season change but things can't get any worse. I am in the camp that Pete needs to hire a new DC and let them take full control of the D while he focuses on being the head coach. But it is unlikely this will really work properly until the off season. Not enough time to learn a scheme mid season. It seems to me the best strategy for the season moving forward would be to get rid of KNJ now and have someone else come in and try to make the most of the current scheme. If we get healthy this D can be a lot better. We need to play tighter. What do you guys think? It seems there are really people in here who want to get rid of Pete and blow it up.

 

[pittpnthrs]

To many variables in play before I can say what I would do. How much input does Pete have on either side of the ball? If he's making the schemes and all the calls then he is the problem. If its the actual coordinators, then we know what direction to go.

 

[wyliecat]

Hire a new DB coach, do we have a DB coach?

 

[AROS]

Fire Norton, hire Bradley.

 

[Appyhawk]

IMO changing coaches at this point of the season is not only unlikely, but would not be impractical. Adding a new one as an assistant might be helpful though, in terms of transitional progress going forward.
It is scheme that needs to change, but any scheme is dependent on having the personnel to make it work. Right now our personnel doesn't seem to be able to make the scheme in place work. We can't cover, we can't run the ball, and we aren't protecting our QB. That's a lot of problems to try to clean up mid-season.

The scheme most desperately needing change is our reactionary style of defense. Reactionary coverage with soft zone is a guaranteed losing proposition. The fact that we've somehow been able to win 6 of our 8 games has been a band aid masking a gaping wound. Don't know what can be done to immediately solve that problem, but that's the first thing I would attempt to address.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Kris Richard might still be sitting on the couch. If so, bring him in as a consultant on the secondary.

Same thing with Quinn as a defensive consultant.

Invent a 'family emergency' that Norton had where he has to take leave. That becomes the excuse for why he was struggling because he was dealing with whatever made-up event we won't actually disclose.

If Quinn is not available, any effective former DC is better than none. Wade Phillips if he promises to continue to run a 4-3 for this year.

Pete agrees not to meddle in the defense this year.

I would probably bring in Vic Beasley too, just to rotate in as well.



Obviously, at end of year if Zimmer is available you go get him no matter what.

 

[mistaowen]

Positional coaches need to be jettisoned on defense. Been watching some videos of guys who are great at breaking down film - the current personnel, especially in the secondary, are playing terribly. Almost so poorly that it doesn't make sense. Guys aren't communicating, guys aren't playing their zones, guys are making strange decisions to leave their zones and overlap with 2-3 other players, the cushions they are giving are so outrageous. Coaching needs to be 100% better and get after these guys. In no world should both CB's routinely be more than 8 yards off the LOS and then continue to drop further past the sticks in coverage. They are conceding easy 10+ yard uncontested completions and then allowing more yards after catch. No defense at any level would do this. Sherman and whoever was at the other CB position were consistently jamming at the LOS and carrying their man down field while keeping the zone, I don't know what they hell they are doing this year.

I also think a new DC who doesn't blindly implement Pete's defense and can actually adapt it to the roster/adjust in-game. They haven't had the guys who can run his simple yet challenging defense for quite awhile. Ken was brought in simply to enforce his vision and not question the plan. Pete needs someone new, not from his coaching tree, who is innovative and can shape the defense he wants to run to a more modern and roster appropriate version. This defense is average with some above average guys, they shouldn't be on pace to absolutely crush the passing record.

The fact we were down so quickly against Buffalo and the coaches were 'caught off guard' up through halftime is terrible and makes me think Norton does nothing but stick to what Pete plans. Gotta have more out of the DC.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Now?

Not much you can do halfway through a season. These are wholesale changes you make in January and February, not mid November.

I've said though if Quinn is willing to come in as an advisor to help with the defense, I'd be all for that. But my guess is he's just fine hammering his fat head coach paychecks for the rest of the year and see if any head coaching jobs open up in January.

I'm not normally a defeatist, but this defense is not getting better anytime soon. Blame whatever and whoever you want, but it's a bad defense. IF they can get 90% healthy with Griffin back, Adams stays healthy and the D-line can just be mediocre? Then maybe this team has a chance to do some damage in the playoffs.

But in it's current state of record breaking terrible pass defense? I don't see it happening, we can't just rely on Russell to play out of his mind every single game for us to have a chance to win 40-37.

 

[kf3339]

At this point you can't do anything about the defense. This is PC's mess and he needs to clean it up, if that's even possible for this season.

The off-season needs to have an objective evaluation of all position coaches and both Co-coordinators. PC needs to implement a wholesale change of all those who performed poorly and replaced with competent coaches who truly understand today's NFL. I would fire Norton and possibly even Schottenheimer. PC needs to implement the same process with his coaches just like has been done with the players. These new coaches need to have a modern philosophy, with a burning desire to make a major mark on their team. The DC would need to have complete autonomy from PC's system, and allowed to implement his vision.

The problem is that Jody Allen gave him that extension which puts no pressure on PC at all to clean things up. That's why the only one who will be able to convince PC that major changes are needed is himself. If this year doesn't show him whatever system he thought was correct is wrong, I don't know what will. Will he see it?

I seriously doubt it.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The problem is that Jody Allen gave him that extension which puts no pressure on PC at all to clean things up. That's why the only one who will be able to convince PC that major changes are needed is himself. If this year doesn't show him whatever system he thought was correct is wrong, I don't know what will. Will he see it?

I seriously doubt it.

Pete didn't all of a sudden forget how to coach defense. In fact, he's one of the best defensive football coaches in NFL and college history.

We can certainly have a discussion about who he and John go after, draft and target in free agency as far as personnel on the field that's failing.

The game has been changing for 4-5 years now, and Pete and John just started two seasons ago getting the right type of players on their defense. Your defense now requires 1-2 elite to above average fast twitchy corners, a stable of 3-4 dependable nickle and dime backs, 3-4 versatile fast LB's, and a ferocious pass rush. i.e. What the Niners are building on defense.

We have a terrible D-line, no elite CB's, one dependable nickel back, and a slow LB corp that can no longer cover in space.

So changes? Make all the coaching changes you want, it ain't fixing personnel. That's a 2-3 year project. Of which we're still stuck in year one, maybe worse.

 

[TwistedHusky]

And you nailed the problem Largent.

Carroll has a plan, a philosophy, and a template. He refuses to deviate from any of this regardless of the resources he has at hand. He is not in the league of a Bill B that can find a way to build effective strategies and tactics depending on his own strengths and the opponent weaknesses.

He is hamstrung by his past success in blindly refusing to concede he needs to take different paths forward when one is blocked. He will smash his head repeatedly into the wall instead of go to the left or right.

We saw this. He likes to run the ball. Great strategy. It rests our defense. It uses clock. It takes advantage of defenses getting smaller and faster against the pass (more on this later) and tires out the opposing defense. Then you can take advantage of their gassed defense in the 4th.

That works perfectly well when you have Marshawn Lynch as your starter. Not nearly as good when you have Mike Davis. But there he is, running the ball for 3 quarters and taking moonshots to take the top off defenses and free up the run...all while he has a HOF QB he barely lets pass.

So 2-3 years. Problem is those are 2-3 years of prime Wilson. Wilson being in his prime is a finite resource.

We don't NEED a dominant defense. We certainly don't need Carroll's outdated and actually stupid concepts of what we need to build a defense. Carroll might know more about defense than most, but he is stuck in the past. He focused on stopping the run, in a league where that hardly matters. So while the rest of the league is getting lighter and faster, we were looking for big, fat, slow run stoppers that hardly matter.

(Yes stopping the run matters in our division for stopping our rivals...but the bulk of the teams we play, including in the playoffs, are going to be teams where stopping the run does not)

If Carroll's plan requires 2-3 years, then it is a stupid plan and he needs to step aside and let a better, more modern, and more effective defensive mind take over. Because it won't work in time and Carroll's defenses won't either. He is still building defenses to stop an NFL offense from the past we will rarely face.

It ain't personnel. It IS coaching. Specifically coaching that insists on putting a plan with strategy and tactics in place that DO NOT match the personnel. Any plan that requires elite/stud personnel at positions you DON'T HAVE is a stupid plan.

 

[AROS]

This speaks to the narrative that has been burning through my brain the last few days. I freaking love Pete Carroll. For the winning tradition he has brought us, for his relentless and perpetual positivity, for reminding us all that age is a state of mind.

However, I am starting to doubt his coaching when it comes to game planning and game time adjustments. How many times have we heard or felt that Pete was outcoached in a game? From the lack of adjusting to time management and a host of other issues we've been left wondering why Pete was beat by the coach on the opposite side of the field. This Bills loss is just the latest Exhibit A.

Pete is a master at Player's Coach 101. He's an exceptional human being just in general. But is he ever confused with the acumen of say a Bill B? His loyalties are well known and often a detriment when he turns a blind eye for too long (i.e. Bevell, i.e. Cable, i.e. Norton). Look, I don't want to disparage a man who has brought such success to the team I love and have loved unconditionally for 44 years. But if I am being completely honest with myself, I have to admit that he's a brilliant motivator and leader of men, but as an X's and O's coach? Hmmm.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Without Carroll, we don't get DK Metcalf. Or likely Lockett. Certainly not Carson.

Maybe JS found some of them. But Carroll turns them into those next-level players.

He is without peer in regularly taking lower-ranked options and turning them into stars.

He will fill the board with the best playing pieces available.

But then he will use them in ways to seemingly almost disregard their strengths and weaknesses.

Best motivator, talent developer, scout, and Mon-Sat coach likely in history. Not at all a good or even average gameday coach in terms of tactics, adjustments, or other gameday requirements. (With exception he might be the best motivator on gameday as well)

Until Carroll learns to use the pieces he has in ways they can be successful vs forcing a template that may or may not fit the situation? We are always going to fall short.

Because there we will be running Mike Davis for 3 quarters and passing with Wilson for 50 yds at the half. Then wondering how we lost. We are doing the defensive equivalent of this now. Enforce plan regardless of the personnel.

Why is my super physical corner playing such soft coverage? (Flowers) Why is one of the best blitzing LBs in the league out in coverage where it exposes his loss in speed? (Wagner)

We built this weird frankstein defense oddly focusing on stopping the run, while at the same time shoring up the secondary. Then we use a defensive scheme with soft zone coverage where the quality of the secondary hardly matters and insist on trying to get pressure with 4 DL that are not even suited for exceptional pass rushing.

With Dunlap added, maybe Vic, and Mayowa back...maybe 4 is ok. But why are we sending one of the worst safeties in the league into coverage so often (Adams). Why are we telegraphing our blitzes? And when we do blitz why are we keeping our secondary so far off to make it easy for teams to beat the blitz?

Our scheme makes no sense. Our plan made no sense. And predictably, our results make perfect sense.

 

[kf3339]

Sorry Largent, but Twistedhusky and Aros have more effective posts. They compliment mine along with many others here and on other threads.

Look, I don't doubt that "ALL SEAHAWK FANS" appreciate and love PC for what he has done for this team. Nobody is questioning that at all.

But take a look at any successful CEO of a company and it's easy to see why that's the case. That CEO has looked at himself and his strengths and weaknesses. We all have them. There isn't a really successful CEO on this planet that can do everything themselves. NONE.

So what does that CEO do? They bring in managers that can elevate those areas where he or she may be lacking, and add extra abilities where there are strengths. In business you need to stay ahead of your competition to win. That is why they are successful. If they aren't honest with themselves, they end of failing and getting fired.

Does anyone on this site believe PC doesn't have any weaknesses at all? Come on. They have been staring at us for years. He isn't a good game planning and in-game adjustment coach. That is just a fact.

Commentators have been making statements. Past successful coaches has stated things on air. Former players have call him out on his coaching decisions.

Does his methods allow us to have some success. Yes. Can he get us to the dance. Yes. Are we going to get the last dance of the night? NO.

Paul wasn't and Jody Allen isn't passionate about professional football. It's just a fact. Paul bought this team as a civil service duty to Seattle and us fans. He didn't do it out of passion for the game. He probably came to appreciate the game, but it wasn't his first or main love for sports. Basketball and his Trailblazers was where his heart belonged.

It may be hard for some of you to see this, but it's the truth. Flame me all you want. It will not bother me.

Anyone with a half decent set of eyes can see the problem.

 

[JayhawkMike]

I’m sure there is a term for it out there but i call it the Ultimate Success Paradox (my term). Basically, almost all coaches will permanently lock into a particular system/style of play etc once they have achieved ultimate success with it. (Belichick being a huge exception.). I’ve seen it in football and basketball. I imagine it applies to the rest too.

Pete is doing what won him the Super Bowl almost SEVEN years ago.

I would put PC to pasture after the season. Hire an innovative offensive head coach, a yes man OC and a top flight DC and let them do their thing.

I’d fire all current draft consultants and hire different ones. I’d quit drafting 3rd round talent in the first round and start drafting 1st round rated talent in the 2nd round more often. (Yes, I get it that DK was consensus #17 ranked player overall but that’s just by all the stupid idiots and not the brainiacs on the Seahawks who took the sixty something rated LJ in the first round)

I’d fire KNJ immediately. You can’t get worse than worst so at least TRY to win this year. It’s also a head start on next year.

Oh and I’d wear the green unis every time possible. I love those things.

I’d also make a looong term plan to move the Seahawks just outside of the Seattle city limits. The city council will eventually screw up the team.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Sorry Largent, but Twistedhusky and Aros have more effective posts. They compliment mine along with many others here and on other threads.

Look, I don't doubt that "ALL SEAHAWK FANS" appreciate and love PC for what he has done for this team. Nobody is questioning that at all.

But take a look at any successful CEO of a company and it's easy to see why that's the case. That CEO has looked at himself and his strengths and weaknesses. We all have them. There isn't a really successful CEO on this planet that can do everything themselves. NONE.

So what does that CEO do? They bring in managers that can elevate those areas where he or she may be lacking, and add extra abilities where there are strengths. In business you need to stay ahead of your competition to win. That is why they are successful. If they aren't honest with themselves, they end of failing and getting fired.

Does anyone on this site believe PC doesn't have any weaknesses at all? Come on. They have been staring at us for years. He isn't a good game planning and in-game adjustment coach. That is just a fact.

Commentators have been making statements. Past successful coaches has stated things on air. Former players have call him out on his coaching decisions.

Does his methods allow us to have some success. Yes. Can he get us to the dance. Yes. Are we going to get the last dance of the night? NO.

Paul wasn't and Jody Allen isn't passionate about professional football. It's just a fact. Paul bought this team as a civil service duty to Seattle and us fans. He didn't do it out of passion for the game. He probably came to appreciate the game, but it wasn't his first or main love for sports. Basketball and his Trailblazers was where his heart belonged.

It may be hard for some of you to see this, but it's the truth. Flame me all you want. It will not bother me.

Anyone with a half decent set of eyes can see the problem.

I don't know what you're apologizing for me for, I lined out Pete's weaknesses, it's on the personnel side and his stubbornness to change with the times to correctly draft and acquire defensive players.

Maybe you just read my first sentence, and not the rest. Because in essence I agree with you guys.

 

[kf3339]

Sorry Largent, but Twistedhusky and Aros have more effective posts. They compliment mine along with many others here and on other threads.

Look, I don't doubt that "ALL SEAHAWK FANS" appreciate and love PC for what he has done for this team. Nobody is questioning that at all.

But take a look at any successful CEO of a company and it's easy to see why that's the case. That CEO has looked at himself and his strengths and weaknesses. We all have them. There isn't a really successful CEO on this planet that can do everything themselves. NONE.

So what does that CEO do? They bring in managers that can elevate those areas where he or she may be lacking, and add extra abilities where there are strengths. In business you need to stay ahead of your competition to win. That is why they are successful. If they aren't honest with themselves, they end of failing and getting fired.

Does anyone on this site believe PC doesn't have any weaknesses at all? Come on. They have been staring at us for years. He isn't a good game planning and in-game adjustment coach. That is just a fact.

Commentators have been making statements. Past successful coaches has stated things on air. Former players have call him out on his coaching decisions.

Does his methods allow us to have some success. Yes. Can he get us to the dance. Yes. Are we going to get the last dance of the night? NO.

Paul wasn't and Jody Allen isn't passionate about professional football. It's just a fact. Paul bought this team as a civil service duty to Seattle and us fans. He didn't do it out of passion for the game. He probably came to appreciate the game, but it wasn't his first or main love for sports. Basketball and his Trailblazers was where his heart belonged.

It may be hard for some of you to see this, but it's the truth. Flame me all you want. It will not bother me.

Anyone with a half decent set of eyes can see the problem.

I don't know what you're apologizing for me for, I lined out Pete's weaknesses, it's on the personnel side and his stubbornness to change with the times to correctly draft and acquire defensive players.

Maybe you just read my first sentence, and not the rest. Because in essence I agree with you guys.

Ok, my mistake. Players are always important. But game planning and game day decisions are as well.

 

[LTH]

So I'm interested to see what people say on this one. If you were ownsership/JS and had full control of the team today, what would you do to try and make the most of our season going forward? I'm seeing a ton of negativity without any suggestions. It's understandable about the D considering we have been historically bad. I realize we aren't going to influence management here but I would just like to see what people think needs to be done.

I think firing KNJ is a start. Yes it's a mid season change but things can't get any worse. I am in the camp that Pete needs to hire a new DC and let them take full control of the D while he focuses on being the head coach. But it is unlikely this will really work properly until the off season. Not enough time to learn a scheme mid season. It seems to me the best strategy for the season moving forward would be to get rid of KNJ now and have someone else come in and try to make the most of the current scheme. If we get healthy this D can be a lot better. We need to play tighter. What do you guys think? It seems there are really people in here who want to get rid of Pete and blow it up.

I think they just ride it out and hope they get healthy and build some continuity... I think firing Norton right now would just turn the D upside down as the players respect Norton bringing in someone at this point is like giving up on the season when your 6-2 that makes no sense... getting rid of Carroll would be a complete disaster and a stupid move... I think the Bills game was a fluke game... Its not like the Hawks know the bills very well... I don't rest the season off of one game or even the first half of the season...

If you look at history the Hawks are normally not playing their best football at this point... maybe the D is not this bad but there is still what 8 games left a lot of football left to be played.. There is plenty of time to turn this thing around Lets see how well they do against the Rams.... I have a suspicion that Russ is going to make the Rams pay and I think we will see a better performance from the D... its not like the Rams have performed well against the Blitz and Dunlap had an impressive performance...all is not lost we just need to be patient..


LTH

 

[TwistedHusky]

Getting rid of Carroll would be crazy.

This team has the success it has because of what Carroll puts in place.

The problem is that Carroll still insists on tactics that no longer work well or don't work for the people we have.

Somehow we have to convince him that he cannot be successful still doing those things. That will not work, because his ego will tell him otherwise. So we have to remove the burden of doing those things so he can concentrate on those things he is doing well for us.

This is kind of like convincing Buddy Ryan his defense no longer works. Remember the 46 was so dominant then, after a year or two, almost overnight it stopped working? Buddy Ryan had to stop running those defenses.

Well the equivalent is that Carroll would still be running the 46 out there, but instead of Plank he would be using Hill....

 

[LTH]

Getting rid of Carroll would be crazy.

This team has the success it has because of what Carroll puts in place.

The problem is that Carroll still insists on tactics that no longer work well or don't work for the people we have.

Somehow we have to convince him that he cannot be successful still doing those things. That will not work, because his ego will tell him otherwise. So we have to remove the burden of doing those things so he can concentrate on those things he is doing well for us.

This is kind of like convincing Buddy Ryan his defense no longer works. Remember the 46 was so dominant then, after a year or two, almost overnight it stopped working? Buddy Ryan had to stop running those defenses.

Well the equivalent is that Carroll would still be running the 46 out there, but instead of Plank he would be using Hill....

Ok if that's the case how would you overcome having two hurt corners? it's a tough situation...


LTH