Jimmy G can play

[RolandDeschain]

Well, it took most Niners fans about five years to stop saying "Wilson's just ok, he's carried by an elite defense."

Y'all people in San Francisco have quite a bit of waiting ahead of you, if we follow the same incorrect mindset the vast majority of you did.

Just sayin'.

 

[olyfan63]

How many big games has Jimmy won?
Cousins is a fine QB. So is JG. Neither have done anything more than put up stats at this point.

For the win.
Cousins primetime record came on Dan Snyder Redskins teams.

Cousins and JimmyG are pretty comparable at this point, but the Niners team overall around JG seems to be better than the Minny cast around Cousins.

Let's hope for a Niners-Vikings playoff matchup to settle this issue once and for all, 'til next season anyway.
Could very easily happen.

 

[kobebryant]

LOL.

He is better than Cousins RIGHT NOW. BY A LOT. It's not close.

:roll:

Some nice rose-colored glasses you have there.

How many big games have you seen Cousins win in your life? Almost none. Jimmy Garoppolo wins them all the time.

Does he?

He is 1-2 in his biggest games this year.

Played in only 3 early season games last year, and had 5 starts in inconsequential games at the end of 2017.

No playoff starts.

What big games are you referring to?

 

[Marvin49]

LOL.

He is better than Cousins RIGHT NOW. BY A LOT. It's not close.

:roll:

Some nice rose-colored glasses you have there.

How many big games have you seen Cousins win in your life? Almost none. Jimmy Garoppolo wins them all the time.

Does he?

He is 1-2 in his biggest games this year.

Played in only 3 early season games last year, and had 5 starts in inconsequential games at the end of 2017.

No playoff starts.

What big games are you referring to?

That's some tricky math. LOL.

Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
Against 10 win teams: 2-2
Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.

 

[Marvin49]

Meanwhile...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/nwagoner/status/1204848569066434561[/tweet]

 

[Marvin49]

How many big games has Jimmy won?
Cousins is a fine QB. So is JG. Neither have done anything more than put up stats at this point.

For the win.
Cousins primetime record came on Dan Snyder Redskins teams.

Cousins and JimmyG are pretty comparable at this point, but the Niners team overall around JG seems to be better than the Minny cast around Cousins.

Let's hope for a Niners-Vikings playoff matchup to settle this issue once and for all, 'til next season anyway.
Could very easily happen.

Well.....if all stays as is from seeding perspective, the Vikings would have to beat NO in NO to advance to the second round where they would play SF at Levi's.

If Seattle wins division the chances fall dramatically that Minn would play SF unless somehow Minn beats GB for the NFC South.

 

[kobebryant]

Some nice rose-colored glasses you have there.

How many big games have you seen Cousins win in your life? Almost none. Jimmy Garoppolo wins them all the time.

Does he?

He is 1-2 in his biggest games this year.

Played in only 3 early season games last year, and had 5 starts in inconsequential games at the end of 2017.

No playoff starts.

What big games are you referring to?

That's some tricky math. LOL.

Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
Against 10 win teams: 2-2
Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.

My bad on forgetting GB.

Admittedly, what constitutes a big game is entirely subjective; but I think to say that Jimmy wins big games all the time (you didn't say it) is a little far fetched to attribute to a 28 year old in his 6th season without a playoff win.

 

[Marvin49]

How many big games have you seen Cousins win in your life? Almost none. Jimmy Garoppolo wins them all the time.

Does he?

He is 1-2 in his biggest games this year.

Played in only 3 early season games last year, and had 5 starts in inconsequential games at the end of 2017.

No playoff starts.

What big games are you referring to?

That's some tricky math. LOL.

Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
Against 10 win teams: 2-2
Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.

My bad on forgetting GB.

Admittedly, what constitutes a big game is entirely subjective; but I think to say that Jimmy wins big games all the time (you didn't say it) is a little far fetched to attribute to a 28 year old in his 6th season without a playoff win.

...and calling him a "28 year old in his 6th season without a playoff win" is a bit disingenuous when you KNOW why he hasn't won a playoff game...IE, because he sat behind perhaps the best to ever play for 3.5 seasons, played 5 games on a team that was 1-10, and tore his ACL in week 3 the following year.

We don't yet know how he will play in the playoffs, but the way you stated his age and years in the league has nothing to do with his ability. When he HAS played, he's 17-4 as a starter when he's actually had the opportunity to play.

 

[kobebryant]

Does he?

He is 1-2 in his biggest games this year.

Played in only 3 early season games last year, and had 5 starts in inconsequential games at the end of 2017.

No playoff starts.

What big games are you referring to?

That's some tricky math. LOL.

Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
Against 10 win teams: 2-2
Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.

My bad on forgetting GB.

Admittedly, what constitutes a big game is entirely subjective; but I think to say that Jimmy wins big games all the time (you didn't say it) is a little far fetched to attribute to a 28 year old in his 6th season without a playoff win.

...and calling him a "28 year old in his 6th season without a playoff win" is a bit disingenuous when you KNOW why he hasn't won a playoff game...IE, because he sat behind perhaps the best to ever play for 3.5 seasons, played 5 games on a team that was 1-10, and tore his ACL in week 3 the following year.

We don't yet know how he will play in the playoffs, but the way you stated his age and years in the league has nothing to do with his ability. When he HAS played, he's 17-4 as a starter when he's actually had the opportunity to play.

It's to highlight how incomplete his resume is - not as a positive, not as a negative, just incomplete. Too small to make any statements in either direction. I haven't argued that he is incapable of winning big games, just that there aren't enough pelts on the wall yet.

When SanDiego49er posits that Jimmy wins big games all the time, how is that backed up with facts?

It's tough when "big games" is such a subjective thing, but if we're talking regular season games that feel bigger than the usual, then it's 4 games, all this season. GB, Sea, Bal, NO - for a grand total of two big game wins. Even if we allow for Pit & LA that is 4 big game victories, counted on less than one hand - IMO not sufficient enough to proclaim that he wins big games all the time.

 

[Marvin49]

That's some tricky math. LOL.

Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
Against 10 win teams: 2-2
Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.

My bad on forgetting GB.

Admittedly, what constitutes a big game is entirely subjective; but I think to say that Jimmy wins big games all the time (you didn't say it) is a little far fetched to attribute to a 28 year old in his 6th season without a playoff win.

...and calling him a "28 year old in his 6th season without a playoff win" is a bit disingenuous when you KNOW why he hasn't won a playoff game...IE, because he sat behind perhaps the best to ever play for 3.5 seasons, played 5 games on a team that was 1-10, and tore his ACL in week 3 the following year.

We don't yet know how he will play in the playoffs, but the way you stated his age and years in the league has nothing to do with his ability. When he HAS played, he's 17-4 as a starter when he's actually had the opportunity to play.

It's to highlight how incomplete his resume is - not as a positive, not as a negative, just incomplete. Too small to make any statements in either direction. I haven't argued that he is incapable of winning big games, just that there aren't enough pelts on the wall yet.

When SanDiego49er posits that Jimmy wins big games all the time, how is that backed up with facts?

It's tough when "big games" is such a subjective thing, but if we're talking regular season games that feel bigger than the usual, then it's 4 games, all this season. GB, Sea, Bal, NO - for a grand total of two big game wins. Even if we allow for Pit & LA that is 4 big game victories, counted on less than one hand - IMO not sufficient enough to proclaim that he wins big games all the time.

I think you are just splitting hairs at this point.

He is effectively a 2nd year QB. He has one of the highest if not THE highest winning percentage in NFL history (he was the highest before Baltimore...not sure now).

If your point is that he is as yet unproven in "big games", then outside of the obvious that we can't define "big games" then all you are talking about is things he has not yet been given the opportunity to test. If you wanna say he's untested in playoff situations, I can buy that.

Seems odd tho to hold any games this season AGAINST him since the Ravens ALSO beat Seattle and NE (handily in the latter case) and the ONLY OTHER LOSS just happens to be the team you are a fan of.

Every single time he's taken the field he's either won or given his team a good chance to win (with possible exception of Minn last year...his worst NFL game). Even in KC last year they were mounting a comeback before he tore his ACL.

 

[Uncle Si]

Some nice rose-colored glasses you have there.

How many big games have you seen Cousins win in your life? Almost none. Jimmy Garoppolo wins them all the time.

Does he?

He is 1-2 in his biggest games this year.

Played in only 3 early season games last year, and had 5 starts in inconsequential games at the end of 2017.

No playoff starts.

What big games are you referring to?

That's some tricky math. LOL.

Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
Against 10 win teams: 2-2
Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.

So we are clear.. Jimmy hasn't won any big games.

 

[Marvin49]

How many big games have you seen Cousins win in your life? Almost none. Jimmy Garoppolo wins them all the time.

Does he?

He is 1-2 in his biggest games this year.

Played in only 3 early season games last year, and had 5 starts in inconsequential games at the end of 2017.

No playoff starts.

What big games are you referring to?

That's some tricky math. LOL.

Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
Against 10 win teams: 2-2
Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.

So we are clear.. Jimmy hasn't won any big games.

Fair...as it depend entirely on your personal definition.

Me? The last three games represent the hardest three game stretch an NFL team has played this late in the season...ever. No team had ever played three games in a row this late in the year against teams with a better than .800 winning %.

Niners came out of that 2-1. I'll take that. They beat the current 2 and 3 seeds in their conference. To me, those are big games.

Now some could say they aren't big unless they are postseason. That's fair. We'll find out soon.

 

[RolandDeschain]

That's some tricky math. LOL.

Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
Against 10 win teams: 2-2
Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.

You can't use numbers for this. Big games are primarily all about pressure. Let's see how he does in a couple of playoff games. Also, winning a game doesn't mean someone does well under pressure. Circumstances of the game, and how well the defense and special teams performed have to be taken into account as well...regardless of stats.

 

[IndyHawk]

That's some tricky math. LOL.

Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
Against 10 win teams: 2-2
Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.

You can't use numbers for this. Big games are primarily all about pressure. Let's see how he does in a couple of playoff games. Also, winning a game doesn't mean someone does well under pressure. Circumstances of the game, and how well the defense and special teams performed have to be taken into account as well...regardless of stats.

I'm not saying JG sucks or just average but look at the weapons he has(ES/Kittle)
The tv people can sing about how he won the NO game but really?I saw Kittle taking
a little play a long way due to a horrible defensive effort by the Saints that cost them
the game..To me it was Kittle's win and any QB makes that dinky pass but somehow
it turns into JG's first big win?
I get it that they need to hype it up like the NBA ukeface:

 

[rlkats]

That's some tricky math. LOL.

Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
Against 10 win teams: 2-2
Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.

You can't use numbers for this. Big games are primarily all about pressure. Let's see how he does in a couple of playoff games. Also, winning a game doesn't mean someone does well under pressure. Circumstances of the game, and how well the defense and special teams performed have to be taken into account as well...regardless of stats.

I'm not saying JG sucks or just average but look at the weapons he has(ES/Kittle)
The tv people can sing about how he won the NO game but really?I saw Kittle taking
a little play a long way due to a horrible defensive effort by the Saints that cost them
the game..To me it was Kittle's win and any QB makes that dinky pass but somehow
it turns into JG's first big win?
I get it that they need to hype it up like the NBA ukeface:

While I think Jimmy need to keep proving people wrong and improving, how can you say kittle won the game?
Yes Kittle made the last play, but is it not the QB's job to throw for over 340 yards and 4td? And I call BS, there is no way any QB goes into NO and puts over 40 on them and goes to to toe with Brees a HOF QB.
Jimmy played a great game and carried the team on his back. And guess what the whole Offense did their job. It's easy to say well look at the receivers look at the TE. But at some point you need to start saying hey look at the QB he is not throwing the game away and is actually winning games whe. The D plays like crap.

 

[Marvin49]

That's some tricky math. LOL.

Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
Against 10 win teams: 2-2
Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.

You can't use numbers for this. Big games are primarily all about pressure. Let's see how he does in a couple of playoff games. Also, winning a game doesn't mean someone does well under pressure. Circumstances of the game, and how well the defense and special teams performed have to be taken into account as well...regardless of stats.

I'm not saying JG sucks or just average but look at the weapons he has(ES/Kittle)
The tv people can sing about how he won the NO game but really?I saw Kittle taking
a little play a long way due to a horrible defensive effort by the Saints that cost them
the game..To me it was Kittle's win and any QB makes that dinky pass but somehow
it turns into JG's first big win?
I get it that they need to hype it up like the NBA ukeface:

While I think Jimmy need to keep proving people wrong and improving, how can you say kittle won the game?
Yes Kittle made the last play, but is it not the QB's job to throw for over 340 yards and 4td? And I call BS, there is no way any QB goes into NO and puts over 40 on them and goes to to toe with Brees a HOF QB.
Jimmy played a great game and carried the team on his back. And guess what the whole Offense did their job. It's easy to say well look at the receivers look at the TE. But at some point you need to start saying hey look at the QB he is not throwing the game away and is actually winning games whe. The D plays like crap.

SHOCKER: I agree.

I do think that the storyline that Jimmy came through in the clutch on that last drive is a little overblown as it was really 2 completed short passes to Kittle. However, he answered Brees on almost every opportunity, point for point, throughout the game.

I feel like people just keep moving the goalpost on Jimmy. Its like the only way he can earn credit is if he plays against the 85 Bears with only 9 offensive players and his recievers are both 80 year old men. Its like it only counts if both hands are tied behind his back.

Joe had Jerry and a host of others. Peyton had Harrison. Brady spent alot of time with Gronk. Brees has Thomas. Smart teams give their QBs weapons. Not sure why that counts against them somehow.

I guess thats just the way it goes.

The following doesn't really apply to Seahawks fans as they pretty much hate all things SF as I would expect, but in the offseason Jimmy had that practice with 5 straight INTs and then he had a poor outing in first preseason game.

Ever since that time, the National Media has just been all over him and waiting for him to fail. The have zero context. He was just returning from an ACL, still learning the O, and most of all that D has now borne out to be the best pass defense in the NFL...by a pretty good margin.

Its like the story was written at that point and now they just can't let it go.

No matter tho. Games are decided on the field, not by public perception.

 

[Largent80]

He can throw a checkdown with the best of them.

 

[knownone]

I feel like we’ve known for awhile that Jimmy can play. The question is, how much of his success is due to Shanahan and his scheme. Seriously, his advanced stats are mind boggling and it’s all related to Kyle’s offense.

The bad: More than half of Jimmy’s yards come after the catch; close to 30% of his yards come from screen passes. He has the 3rd best supporting cast. He’s ranked 6th in interceptable passes with 24. He’s ranked 22nd in tight window throws with 10. For perspective, Goff is ranked 17th with 12 tight window throws, and Wilson is ranked #1 with 32.

The good: He’s 2nd in completion percentage under pressure. He’s 1st in completion percentage on passes over 25 yards, but he only attempts just over 2/game which is 28th in the league. Most importantly, the Niners are #1 in drops which at least validates some of the Niners fan’s concerns that his early numbers were the result of the weapons around him rather than a fault of his own.

On paper, he looks almost identical to Jared Goff with one major exception, Goff is horrible under pressure and Jimmy is elite. I’m fascinated by this because Jimmy is a clearly a better QB than Goff, but everything points to him being a product of Kyle’s system just like Goff is a product of Mcvay’s. And if Kyle and Mcvay can do that much to help their QB, it’s probably time for Pete and Schotty to incorporate parts of their offense into our scheme.

 

[Popeyejones]

I feel like we’ve known for awhile that Jimmy can play. The question is, how much of his success is due to Shanahan and his scheme. Seriously, his advanced stats are mind boggling and it’s all related to Kyle’s offense.

The bad: More than half of Jimmy’s yards come after the catch; close to 30% of his yards come from screen passes. He has the 3rd best supporting cast. He’s ranked 6th in interceptable passes with 24. He’s ranked 22nd in tight window throws with 10. For perspective, Goff is ranked 17th with 12 tight window throws, and Wilson is ranked #1 with 32.

The good: He’s 2nd in completion percentage under pressure. He’s 1st in completion percentage on passes over 25 yards, but he only attempts just over 2/game which is 28th in the league. Most importantly, the Niners are #1 in drops which at least validates some of the Niners fan’s concerns that his early numbers were the result of the weapons around him rather than a fault of his own.

On paper, he looks almost identical to Jared Goff with one major exception, Goff is horrible under pressure and Jimmy is elite. I’m fascinated by this because Jimmy is a clearly a better QB than Goff, but everything points to him being a product of Kyle’s system just like Goff is a product of Mcvay’s. And if Kyle and Mcvay can do that much to help their QB, it’s probably time for Pete and Schotty to incorporate parts of their offense into our scheme.

I'm unpopular among 9ers fans because I think as all of the 9ers greats from the 80s and early 90s are individually overrated because of Walsh's scheme advantage.

I live those guys and grew up rooting for them, but they got to play in a new system that 30 years later is still baked into every team's playbook (in terms of route combinations and how to attack a defense, not in terms of running plays or formations).

Walsh in that era had scrubs like Steve Bono and Elvis Grbac looking like pro-bowlers.

Kyle's a good OC but this ain't that by a long shot.

His "innovations" (and he regularly poors cold water on beat reporters who imply he's innovating or doing anything new, and he's right) are in MUCH smaller things like fornational versatility and play scheming.

His offense is really hard on QBs too: it's why save for that one season with Matt Ryan his offense has never generated a top QB performance.

 

[Uncle Si]

Does he?

He is 1-2 in his biggest games this year.

Played in only 3 early season games last year, and had 5 starts in inconsequential games at the end of 2017.

No playoff starts.

What big games are you referring to?

That's some tricky math. LOL.

Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
Against 10 win teams: 2-2
Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.

So we are clear.. Jimmy hasn't won any big games.

Fair...as it depend entirely on your personal definition.

Me? The last three games represent the hardest three game stretch an NFL team has played this late in the season...ever. No team had ever played three games in a row this late in the year against teams with a better than .800 winning %.

Niners came out of that 2-1. I'll take that. They beat the current 2 and 3 seeds in their conference. To me, those are big games.

Now some could say they aren't big unless they are postseason. That's fair. We'll find out soon.

Its regular season...

Big games aren't regular season. I know it's been awhile, but you should know this