Jimmy G can play

[Marvin49]

I feel like we’ve known for awhile that Jimmy can play. The question is, how much of his success is due to Shanahan and his scheme. Seriously, his advanced stats are mind boggling and it’s all related to Kyle’s offense.

The bad: More than half of Jimmy’s yards come after the catch; close to 30% of his yards come from screen passes. He has the 3rd best supporting cast. He’s ranked 6th in interceptable passes with 24. He’s ranked 22nd in tight window throws with 10. For perspective, Goff is ranked 17th with 12 tight window throws, and Wilson is ranked #1 with 32.

The good: He’s 2nd in completion percentage under pressure. He’s 1st in completion percentage on passes over 25 yards, but he only attempts just over 2/game which is 28th in the league. Most importantly, the Niners are #1 in drops which at least validates some of the Niners fan’s concerns that his early numbers were the result of the weapons around him rather than a fault of his own.

On paper, he looks almost identical to Jared Goff with one major exception, Goff is horrible under pressure and Jimmy is elite. I’m fascinated by this because Jimmy is a clearly a better QB than Goff, but everything points to him being a product of Kyle’s system just like Goff is a product of Mcvay’s. And if Kyle and Mcvay can do that much to help their QB, it’s probably time for Pete and Schotty to incorporate parts of their offense into our scheme.

I'm unpopular among 9ers fans because I think as all of the 9ers greats from the 80s and early 90s are individually overrated because of Walsh's scheme advantage.

I live those guys and grew up rooting for them, but they got to play in a new system that 30 years later is still baked into every team's playbook (in terms of route combinations and how to attack a defense, not in terms of running plays or formations).

Walsh in that era had scrubs like Steve Bono and Elvis Grbac looking like pro-bowlers.

Kyle's a good OC but this ain't that by a long shot.

His "innovations" (and he regularly poors cold water on beat reporters who imply he's innovating or doing anything new, and he's right) are in MUCH smaller things like fornational versatility and play scheming.

His offense is really hard on QBs too: it's why save for that one season with Matt Ryan his offense has never generated a top QB performance.

Wow...really kinda disagree on the bolded. What I'd say about his offense is that its difficult on QBs...until they really learn it. Schaub showed huge improvement from year one to 2 in Houston (2008-2009). RGIII had BY FAR his best season under Shanahan as a rookie. We already know how different year one and 2 were in Atlanta.

You can say he's made it difficult for his QBs, but should be pointed out those QBs have been Matt Schaub, RGIII, Johnny Manziel, Brian Hoyer and finally Matt Ryan.

I do agree with you though RE Walsh and Montana/Young.

Moreover, people seem to think Kyle is working magic or something and these schemes can simply be incorporated into an offense. What makes Shanahan so good is WHEN he calls those plays, not just the play design. Its the setups that he'll run and then run something that looks exactly the same but ends up with the ball in a completely different spot. He knows defensive reads and forces defenders to break their own rules in order to make a play.

IE, its not just a playbook. Its Kyle himself. Its timing. Its chess.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Gotta agree with Marvin on this one. You crazy, Popeye.

 

[Popeyejones]

100% agreed with Marvin that Kyle's primary advantage is in preparing for the chess match, not changing where the pieces go or how they move.

Because I was typing on a phone I where I wrote "scheme" above was supposed to be "sequencing" which the same idea. :2thumbs:

Saying Shanahan's system is tough for a QB to succeed in also isn't the same thing as saying QB's can't succeed in it.
What I'm saying is no different than what Marvin is saying: it took Ryan two years to really excel in it and Schaub two years to look a little better than he was in it.

It's west coast verbiage, with a ton of choice routes, with the QB being asked to turn his back to the play developing a lot, and from what I've seen Shanahan doesn't run a lot of combo beaters meaning if he's guessed wrong on the defensive call the QB is hung out to dry a bit more. That's part of the trade-off on Shanahan's play sequencing advantage but it's a real thing.

(Not acknowledging RGIII because that season, despite being Shanahan's, is so far removed from what Shanahan asks of his QB it's kinda beside the point).