Kurt Warner breaks down Russell Wilson and Seattle Seahawks

[John63]

The usual suspects again coming to Russ' defense. smh

Russell makes $35M a year. Why do you want to make excuses for him?

We don't know the down and distance? Hitting the open receiver has a better chance to gain than taking a sack or throwing into coverage.

Warner's biased because he played in Arizona? He was talking straight X's and O's the entire time. In each instance he explained objectively what the reads are and where the 'layups' were.

Warner's never liked Wilson? He repeated how special Russ was 30-some times during that video.

Pete told him him to hold the ball and throw it deep? Pete wants to run the ball and play strong defense; the definition of ball-possession offense. He has said multiple times he wants his QB to be a point guard and distribute the ball. Also, the plays are drawn up with routes at all levels, not just "everybody go long".

Sometimes what is laid out in front of you is exactly what is laid out in front of you.


Wilson's a great QB, but I still want him to play better. I think he's been too focused on big plays and it costs us drives. If he came out and said, "This year I want to lead the league in first downs", I'd start shopping for Super Bowl tickets...

I agree I mean Wilson sucks good lord to be only one of 2 QBs to be in the top 10 in TDs, Comp%, YPa and Qb rating sucks. I mean we had a top 10 scoring offense, I mean he can't throw short, he can't throw to the middle of the field, according to Warner he never takes the layup of course Warner knows exactly what the field looked like from the QBs eyes, so he knows. I mean shoot we only avg 13 passing first downs a game, I mean that is 2 behind the top team, I mean that sucks. Oh and FYI 13 is the same as Rodgers who we all know sucks, Better than Brees who sucks and 1 less than Brady. I mean how the hell is he always amongst the tops in mist categories every year when he sucks so bad and cant do all things you guys keep saying he can't do? :sarcasm_off:

I think all of you and Warner needs to stop the nit picking. For every layup Wilson missed he made 3 and guess what all QBs miss a layup from time to time and as much as you want to try to downplay the questions about down and distance they are legit anyone who understands football knows down and distance is important for determining the play, and were you go with the ball.

 

[hawkfan68]

The usual suspects again coming to Russ' defense. smh

Russell makes $35M a year. Why do you want to make excuses for him?

We don't know the down and distance? Hitting the open receiver has a better chance to gain than taking a sack or throwing into coverage.

Warner's biased because he played in Arizona? He was talking straight X's and O's the entire time. In each instance he explained objectively what the reads are and where the 'layups' were.

Warner's never liked Wilson? He repeated how special Russ was 30-some times during that video.

Pete told him him to hold the ball and throw it deep? Pete wants to run the ball and play strong defense; the definition of ball-possession offense. He has said multiple times he wants his QB to be a point guard and distribute the ball. Also, the plays are drawn up with routes at all levels, not just "everybody go long".

Sometimes what is laid out in front of you is exactly what is laid out in front of you.


Wilson's a great QB, but I still want him to play better. I think he's been too focused on big plays and it costs us drives. If he came out and said, "This year I want to lead the league in first downs", I'd start shopping for Super Bowl tickets...

This is not all on Russell issue. Russell can be better but the looks for deep ball throws have happened even prior to Russell being a Seahawk. Pete has done it ever since he has become a coach in Seattle. In his first year, he had noodle arm Hasselbeck throw a deep pass incomplete on a fourth and 1 or 2 play. It was ridiculous play call. Pete is so enamored with the "explosive" plays that he forgets about the other aspects of the game. Once teams figure that out, the Seahawks are dead in the water. OCs have come and gone but the plays remain the same. The one constant - Pete Carroll.

 

[Own The West]

The usual suspects again coming to Russ' defense. smh

Russell makes $35M a year. Why do you want to make excuses for him?

We don't know the down and distance? Hitting the open receiver has a better chance to gain than taking a sack or throwing into coverage.

Warner's biased because he played in Arizona? He was talking straight X's and O's the entire time. In each instance he explained objectively what the reads are and where the 'layups' were.

Warner's never liked Wilson? He repeated how special Russ was 30-some times during that video.

Pete told him him to hold the ball and throw it deep? Pete wants to run the ball and play strong defense; the definition of ball-possession offense. He has said multiple times he wants his QB to be a point guard and distribute the ball. Also, the plays are drawn up with routes at all levels, not just "everybody go long".

Sometimes what is laid out in front of you is exactly what is laid out in front of you.


Wilson's a great QB, but I still want him to play better. I think he's been too focused on big plays and it costs us drives. If he came out and said, "This year I want to lead the league in first downs", I'd start shopping for Super Bowl tickets...

I agree I mean Wilson sucks good lord to be only one of 2 QBs to be in the top 10 in TDs, Comp%, YPa and Qb rating sucks. I mean we had a top 10 scoring offense, I mean he can't throw short, he can't throw to the middle of the field, according to Warner he never takes the layup of course Warner knows exactly what the field looked like from the QBs eyes, so he knows. I mean shoot we only avg 13 passing first downs a game, I mean that is 2 behind the top team, I mean that sucks. Oh and FYI 13 is the same as Rodgers who we all know sucks, Better than Brees who sucks and 1 less than Brady. I mean how the hell is he always amongst the tops in mist categories every year when he sucks so bad and cant do all things you guys keep saying he can't do? :sarcasm_off:

I think all of you and Warner needs to stop the nit picking. For every layup Wilson missed he made 3 and guess what all QBs miss a layup from time to time and as much as you want to try to downplay the questions about down and distance they are legit anyone who understands football knows down and distance is important for determining the play, and were you go with the ball.

John, you're not even responding to my post. Warner said Wilson was special. I said he was great. Nobody said he sucked.

As you know, the scoreboard is the only stat in football that really matters. If our QB can do some things to sustain drives and keep the opposing team's offense off the field, wouldn't you want him to do that?

 

[Own The West]

The usual suspects again coming to Russ' defense. smh

Russell makes $35M a year. Why do you want to make excuses for him?

We don't know the down and distance? Hitting the open receiver has a better chance to gain than taking a sack or throwing into coverage.

Warner's biased because he played in Arizona? He was talking straight X's and O's the entire time. In each instance he explained objectively what the reads are and where the 'layups' were.

Warner's never liked Wilson? He repeated how special Russ was 30-some times during that video.

Pete told him him to hold the ball and throw it deep? Pete wants to run the ball and play strong defense; the definition of ball-possession offense. He has said multiple times he wants his QB to be a point guard and distribute the ball. Also, the plays are drawn up with routes at all levels, not just "everybody go long".

Sometimes what is laid out in front of you is exactly what is laid out in front of you.


Wilson's a great QB, but I still want him to play better. I think he's been too focused on big plays and it costs us drives. If he came out and said, "This year I want to lead the league in first downs", I'd start shopping for Super Bowl tickets...

This is not all a Russell issue. Russell can be better but the looks for deep ball throws have happened even prior to Russell being a Seahawk. Pete has done it ever since he has become a coach in Seattle. In his first year, he had noodle arm Hasselbeck throw a deep pass incomplete on a fourth and 1 or 2 play. It was ridiculous play call. Pete is so enamored with the "explosive" plays that he forgets about the other aspects of the game. Once teams figure that out, the Seahawks are dead in the water. OCs have come and gone but the plays remain the same. The one constant - Pete Carroll.

How is it "not at all" an issue with the one guy that touched the ball every single offensive play last year? They shut the intercom in the helmet off once the play starts. The decision on where to throw the ball every play is all Russ.

Remember how they called Wilson a game manager after we won the Super bowl? He was distributing the ball like a point guard -- per Pete Carroll. This homerun/be the hero thing is new, and it starts and ends with Russ.

 

[toffee]

The usual suspects again coming to Russ' defense. smh

Russell makes $35M a year. Why do you want to make excuses for him?

We don't know the down and distance? Hitting the open receiver has a better chance to gain than taking a sack or throwing into coverage.

Warner's biased because he played in Arizona? He was talking straight X's and O's the entire time. In each instance he explained objectively what the reads are and where the 'layups' were.

Warner's never liked Wilson? He repeated how special Russ was 30-some times during that video.

Pete told him him to hold the ball and throw it deep? Pete wants to run the ball and play strong defense; the definition of ball-possession offense. He has said multiple times he wants his QB to be a point guard and distribute the ball. Also, the plays are drawn up with routes at all levels, not just "everybody go long".

Sometimes what is laid out in front of you is exactly what is laid out in front of you.


Wilson's a great QB, but I still want him to play better. I think he's been too focused on big plays and it costs us drives. If he came out and said, "This year I want to lead the league in first downs", I'd start shopping for Super Bowl tickets...

This is not all a Russell issue. Russell can be better but the looks for deep ball throws have happened even prior to Russell being a Seahawk. Pete has done it ever since he has become a coach in Seattle. In his first year, he had noodle arm Hasselbeck throw a deep pass incomplete on a fourth and 1 or 2 play. It was ridiculous play call. Pete is so enamored with the "explosive" plays that he forgets about the other aspects of the game. Once teams figure that out, the Seahawks are dead in the water. OCs have come and gone but the plays remain the same. The one constant - Pete Carroll.

How is it "not at all" an issue with the one guy that touched the ball every single offensive play last year? They shut the intercom in the helmet off once the play starts. The decision on where to throw the ball every play is all Russ.

Remember how they called Wilson a game manager after we won the Super bowl? He was distributing the ball like a point guard -- per Pete Carroll. This homerun/be the hero thing is new, and it starts and ends with Russ.

Nailed it.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

 

[hawkfan68]

The usual suspects again coming to Russ' defense. smh

Russell makes $35M a year. Why do you want to make excuses for him?

We don't know the down and distance? Hitting the open receiver has a better chance to gain than taking a sack or throwing into coverage.

Warner's biased because he played in Arizona? He was talking straight X's and O's the entire time. In each instance he explained objectively what the reads are and where the 'layups' were.

Warner's never liked Wilson? He repeated how special Russ was 30-some times during that video.

Pete told him him to hold the ball and throw it deep? Pete wants to run the ball and play strong defense; the definition of ball-possession offense. He has said multiple times he wants his QB to be a point guard and distribute the ball. Also, the plays are drawn up with routes at all levels, not just "everybody go long".

Sometimes what is laid out in front of you is exactly what is laid out in front of you.


Wilson's a great QB, but I still want him to play better. I think he's been too focused on big plays and it costs us drives. If he came out and said, "This year I want to lead the league in first downs", I'd start shopping for Super Bowl tickets...

This is not all a Russell issue. Russell can be better but the looks for deep ball throws have happened even prior to Russell being a Seahawk. Pete has done it ever since he has become a coach in Seattle. In his first year, he had noodle arm Hasselbeck throw a deep pass incomplete on a fourth and 1 or 2 play. It was ridiculous play call. Pete is so enamored with the "explosive" plays that he forgets about the other aspects of the game. Once teams figure that out, the Seahawks are dead in the water. OCs have come and gone but the plays remain the same. The one constant - Pete Carroll.

How is it "not at all" an issue with the one guy that touched the ball every single offensive play last year? They shut the intercom in the helmet off once the play starts. The decision on where to throw the ball every play is all Russ.

Remember how they called Wilson a game manager after we won the Super bowl? He was distributing the ball like a point guard -- per Pete Carroll. This homerun/be the hero thing is new, and it starts and ends with Russ.

"Not at all" was a typo on my part. What I meant to say it's not only on Russ. So thank you for that. Also I said Russ can get better. He needs to be better without question.

How can you determine what play is called if you aren't in the huddle or on the intercom? You can't just say that Russ isn't following what is called. Show me the proof? Kurt may be a HOF QB but he wasn't sitting next to Schotty or in the huddle to know what play is being called. He's guessing now he may be more astute than the average fan but nonetheless he doesn't have the Seahawk playbook so he's not 100% certain what the play is called. If Russ isn't following what Pete and the coaches are telling him to do, then why isn't Pete holding him accountable? Because these issues haven't been happening just this season. It's been ongoing for several seasons now. Please explain.

 

[BASF]

If Russ isn't following what Pete and the coaches are telling him to do, then why isn't Pete holding him accountable? Because these issues haven't been happening just this season. It's been ongoing for several seasons now. Please explain.

How would anyone know if Pete is holding him accountable? It is not like during one of the press conferences, Pete is going to say that his hall of fame QB is not doing as he is told.

 

[John63]

The usual suspects again coming to Russ' defense. smh

Russell makes $35M a year. Why do you want to make excuses for him?

We don't know the down and distance? Hitting the open receiver has a better chance to gain than taking a sack or throwing into coverage.

Warner's biased because he played in Arizona? He was talking straight X's and O's the entire time. In each instance he explained objectively what the reads are and where the 'layups' were.

Warner's never liked Wilson? He repeated how special Russ was 30-some times during that video.

Pete told him him to hold the ball and throw it deep? Pete wants to run the ball and play strong defense; the definition of ball-possession offense. He has said multiple times he wants his QB to be a point guard and distribute the ball. Also, the plays are drawn up with routes at all levels, not just "everybody go long".

Sometimes what is laid out in front of you is exactly what is laid out in front of you.


Wilson's a great QB, but I still want him to play better. I think he's been too focused on big plays and it costs us drives. If he came out and said, "This year I want to lead the league in first downs", I'd start shopping for Super Bowl tickets...

I agree I mean Wilson sucks good lord to be only one of 2 QBs to be in the top 10 in TDs, Comp%, YPa and Qb rating sucks. I mean we had a top 10 scoring offense, I mean he can't throw short, he can't throw to the middle of the field, according to Warner he never takes the layup of course Warner knows exactly what the field looked like from the QBs eyes, so he knows. I mean shoot we only avg 13 passing first downs a game, I mean that is 2 behind the top team, I mean that sucks. Oh and FYI 13 is the same as Rodgers who we all know sucks, Better than Brees who sucks and 1 less than Brady. I mean how the hell is he always amongst the tops in mist categories every year when he sucks so bad and cant do all things you guys keep saying he can't do? :sarcasm_off:

I think all of you and Warner needs to stop the nit picking. For every layup Wilson missed he made 3 and guess what all QBs miss a layup from time to time and as much as you want to try to downplay the questions about down and distance they are legit anyone who understands football knows down and distance is important for determining the play, and were you go with the ball.

John, you're not even responding to my post. Warner said Wilson was special. I said he was great. Nobody said he sucked.

As you know, the scoreboard is the only stat in football that really matters. If our QB can do some things to sustain drives and keep the opposing team's offense off the field, wouldn't you want him to do that?

I did respond I just think the whole thread is a joke, I thought that was pretyt clear.

 

[Throwdown]

Some pathetic f ups by Russ last season, he is a flawed player. Doesn’t mean he sucks, he’s great. But he was ass the 2nd part, and it cost us.

I wish you guys rode this hard for your family how hard you’re riding for Russ even faced with undisputed facts that he pooped the bed last year.

 

[John63]

Some pathetic f ups by Russ last season, he is a flawed player. Doesn’t mean he sucks, he’s great. But he was ass the 2nd part, and it cost us.

I wish you guys rode this hard for your family how hard you’re riding for Russ even faced with undisputed facts that he pooped the bed last year.

One you don't know me so don't assume how a ride or don't for my family. 2nd and once again the Facts show he did not poop anything. Did he make mistakes I am sure as did everyone on the team including the coaches, as did every player on every team not named Tampa Bay. But again if being one of only 2 qbs in the top 10 in yards. Tds, ypa, compt% and qb rating is pooping the bed than I guess every qb in the NFL pooped the bed.

 

[Own The West]

The usual suspects again coming to Russ' defense. smh

Russell makes $35M a year. Why do you want to make excuses for him?

We don't know the down and distance? Hitting the open receiver has a better chance to gain than taking a sack or throwing into coverage.

Warner's biased because he played in Arizona? He was talking straight X's and O's the entire time. In each instance he explained objectively what the reads are and where the 'layups' were.

Warner's never liked Wilson? He repeated how special Russ was 30-some times during that video.

Pete told him him to hold the ball and throw it deep? Pete wants to run the ball and play strong defense; the definition of ball-possession offense. He has said multiple times he wants his QB to be a point guard and distribute the ball. Also, the plays are drawn up with routes at all levels, not just "everybody go long".

Sometimes what is laid out in front of you is exactly what is laid out in front of you.


Wilson's a great QB, but I still want him to play better. I think he's been too focused on big plays and it costs us drives. If he came out and said, "This year I want to lead the league in first downs", I'd start shopping for Super Bowl tickets...

This is not all a Russell issue. Russell can be better but the looks for deep ball throws have happened even prior to Russell being a Seahawk. Pete has done it ever since he has become a coach in Seattle. In his first year, he had noodle arm Hasselbeck throw a deep pass incomplete on a fourth and 1 or 2 play. It was ridiculous play call. Pete is so enamored with the "explosive" plays that he forgets about the other aspects of the game. Once teams figure that out, the Seahawks are dead in the water. OCs have come and gone but the plays remain the same. The one constant - Pete Carroll.

How is it "not at all" an issue with the one guy that touched the ball every single offensive play last year? They shut the intercom in the helmet off once the play starts. The decision on where to throw the ball every play is all Russ.

Remember how they called Wilson a game manager after we won the Super bowl? He was distributing the ball like a point guard -- per Pete Carroll. This homerun/be the hero thing is new, and it starts and ends with Russ.

"Not at all" was a typo on my part. What I meant to say it's not only on Russ. So thank you for that. Also I said Russ can get better. He needs to be better without question.

How can you determine what play is called if you aren't in the huddle or on the intercom? You can't just say that Russ isn't following what is called. Show me the proof? Kurt may be a HOF QB but he wasn't sitting next to Schotty or in the huddle to know what play is being called. He's guessing now he may be more astute than the average fan but nonetheless he doesn't have the Seahawk playbook so he's not 100% certain what the play is called. If Russ isn't following what Pete and the coaches are telling him to do, then why isn't Pete holding him accountable? Because these issues haven't been happening just this season. It's been ongoing for several seasons now. Please explain.

Good questions. Some we can answer, some we can not:

On a pass play we can see what routes were run and know exactly what play was called. Pass plays are dynamic in that you have to read how the defense reacts to know which routes are going to come open (Warner went into reads in depth in his analysis). What we saw is that Russell greatly prefers to throw deep -- even into two high safeties -- when he has wide open throws underneath.

What we can't answer is why aren't we holding Russell accountable for not mixing up his throws or taking the checkdown more. I would speculate a) accurate QBs are harder to come by than OCs, so maybe that's why we keep changing them to hopefully find a Russ-Whisperer; and b) he's really f'ing expensive and if he goes into a sulk (like Watson or maybe Rodgers) it can bring down our whole franchise.

Like I said in my OP, if Wilson ever decided to lead the league in first downs, we would kill the rest of the league. He's that good. But if I was playing us, I'd sit in cover 2, double cover all those deep balls, and take my chances. Seattle might hit a few, but without any YAC. More often than not it will just be a wasted down and perhaps a sack, leading to more 3-and-outs.

I don't want us to be that predictable. And I don't think anyone else wants us to be either. So you're Pete Carroll, what do you do? Run the ball more to change things up? Toy with screens and jet sweeps to foster a quick passing game? Change OCs again? I think he's tried all those things. It may jolly well be that if Russell doesn't respond to this OC we ship him somewhere else and go with somebody more coachable next season.

Remember, our coach won national championships with the likes of Matt Leinart and Carson Palmer. Russ would be nice to have, but I'm guessing Pete and John have already discussed who they could replace him with.

 

[nwHawk]

Ahh okay except what was the down and distance, and what was the view from the QB position. Pretty easy to say what u should do when u are looking at it from above but don't know what the view is at the qb level. That aside might there be a few as he calls layups that Wilson missed. Maybe but again without knowing down and distance and what the view from the qb position its tough to say. Example first play looks to me like Wilson did have a shot as the shally down and in on the right. Also look like a chance the dlineman on that side gets a hand on it whe he throws it. You really want him to throw it and hope it does not get tipped that deep in our territory? I don't. Everyone needs to remember all these analyst that watch, only have 1 view. The also don't know the play they are assuming. By no means do I think Wilson is perfect no QB is. I just don't think he has as many holes as some of you think. This video proved little given all the missing info.

Ignorant Russell love at its finest. A Hall of Fame QB that lead the “greatest show of turf” and took 2 different teams to Super Bowls is not just some analyst with an agenda. Russ is far from perfect, and this video just illustrates more of the same that a limited number of folks have identified as weaknesses that Russ, and the team, must address if this team is to win another championship.

 

[nwHawk]

I swear I remember this not being as big a problem in his first couple years. I love Pete, but his emphasis on the deep ball and running a scramble offense has ingrained some bad habits in Wilson.

That early years defense was punching teams in the throat!! Bruce Irving was preaching years ago, and fans got pissed. Maybe being on the practice field day after day with somebody and being privy to internal dirt is worth something.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Kurt may be right here; but we'll never know the whole truth.

Russ has to call the play or one of the plays given by the OC. He may have some freedom at the line, but nobody on this side of the FO has any knowledge of how much. The calls that come through are OC or PC-determined. That's on the coaching staff.

What Russ does with the play-call, making it work, or not, is then all on Russ (and the WRs of course). He can be coached up in practice, his natural talent is off the charts, and his outcomes are often favorable. But he doesn't always make the right decision, because no QB does; defenses sometimes play in unexpected ways, or just out-execute their opponents. And guess what? It's OK to talk about Russ's strengths and weaknesses in a vacuum without reference to other QBs or players.

I do agree with John that down and distance certainly matter and Warner should have showed why Russ needed a certain outcome; throwing a ball to a receiver who fails to get to the sticks on 3rd and 12 is less likely to convert, as is throwing to an open check-down 5 yards downfield with 9 to go, but 2 LBers there to make an immediate tackle.

Still, any philosophy that limits the problems to either Pete, the OC, or Russ alone will be faulty. There are plenty of posters doing this, and most of the lack of helpful dialogue stems from it. Ultimately, all of them must work together, and all share parts of the blame for failing to convert in the passing game.

But that's complicated, many factors to consider, and who has the time to dissect all of that? It's easier to just throw stones at our favorite villain.

 

[keasley45]

What i dont understand is how it isnt obvious that not dinking and dunking and going for the longer throws is just Russ's style (AND / BUT) was seeded in part by Pete's core philosophy. Russ has ALWAYS been an incredibly efficient passer but not in the sense of his ability to strategically march the team down field, dissecting a defense with laser accurate, quick read efficiency. Some of that has been schematic in that the Hawks like to lean on a play action attack. In a play action scheme, runs take the place in some instances of short passes. So Russ hasnt often been asked to efficiently march the team downfield on the strength of quick read, short passes (layups) that take what the defense gives. He was raised on a strong run game that afforded him an opportunity, when he did throw, to have a defense that was maybe slightly off balance, typically generated deeper drops, and by virtue of the run fake, allowed the WR's to get further in their routes. In essence, he has been most effective when he's been given the time HE NEEDS (not to be confused with ADEQUATE TIME) , to allow a play to develop and then make a read. Russel Wilson was not brought up in a system where he was expected to drop back, short, make a dead-on accurate pre-snap read, verify that read in the half second after the ball is snapped, and then get the ball out. He was never asked to do it. Never was part of the Hawks offense, and (this is my take) is struggling at times to do it. And his fallback when he doesnt trust his read is to pull the ball down and buy time and space with his feet. Yes, a legacy of marginal offensive line blocking has contributed to him not having time, but a marginal line is something a QB that is adept at making snap reads and getting the ball out quickly can live with. A marginal line in front of a good QB, but one that has never made his living doing that and is a tick slower (and dare i say maybe even more challenged because of his height), can result in busted plays, bad reads, turnovers and inefficiency. Russ just overcomes his misreads, holding the ball too long, etc. with escapability and off script brilliance.

Its why you heard Pete come out constantly toward the end of last season talking about wanting to run more effectively. I think Pete really loves Russ and this last season was a case of tough love coming to the fore and Russ not taking it well. I think Pete knows his QB and what he can and cant do well (Kurt Warner is just highlighting the obvious). I think he, and every defense that gave us fits last year know Russ and what he can and cant do and where he likely will and will not go with the ball. He's not a 3rd year player anymore. Not saying he cant get better at the quick throws and making the quick reads, but Pete's desire is to put him in a position where he can do over and over again what he has proven he can, and do less of what he cant. And Russ is plainly saying he wants to keep on pushing on the area he's been struggling, and attributes his struggles more to the O-line than his need to just operate a tick faster.

If Russ isnt going to get the ball out on a three step drop to the WR it needs to go to immediately and consistently, then something else needs to happen. That something else right now is running more but also Waldron scripting purely pass plays that will hopefully establish the same off balance advantage play action afforded Russ in terms of the time he had to make reads and confidently get the ball out.
Love the Hawks, Love Russ. But at some point the truth is just the truth. Doesn't change how i feel about either the player or the team.

 

[John63]

This is not all a Russell issue. Russell can be better but the looks for deep ball throws have happened even prior to Russell being a Seahawk. Pete has done it ever since he has become a coach in Seattle. In his first year, he had noodle arm Hasselbeck throw a deep pass incomplete on a fourth and 1 or 2 play. It was ridiculous play call. Pete is so enamored with the "explosive" plays that he forgets about the other aspects of the game. Once teams figure that out, the Seahawks are dead in the water. OCs have come and gone but the plays remain the same. The one constant - Pete Carroll.

How is it "not at all" an issue with the one guy that touched the ball every single offensive play last year? They shut the intercom in the helmet off once the play starts. The decision on where to throw the ball every play is all Russ.

Remember how they called Wilson a game manager after we won the Super bowl? He was distributing the ball like a point guard -- per Pete Carroll. This homerun/be the hero thing is new, and it starts and ends with Russ.

"Not at all" was a typo on my part. What I meant to say it's not only on Russ. So thank you for that. Also I said Russ can get better. He needs to be better without question.

How can you determine what play is called if you aren't in the huddle or on the intercom? You can't just say that Russ isn't following what is called. Show me the proof? Kurt may be a HOF QB but he wasn't sitting next to Schotty or in the huddle to know what play is being called. He's guessing now he may be more astute than the average fan but nonetheless he doesn't have the Seahawk playbook so he's not 100% certain what the play is called. If Russ isn't following what Pete and the coaches are telling him to do, then why isn't Pete holding him accountable? Because these issues haven't been happening just this season. It's been ongoing for several seasons now. Please explain.

Good questions. Some we can answer, some we can not:

On a pass play we can see what routes were run and know exactly what play was called. Pass plays are dynamic in that you have to read how the defense reacts to know which routes are going to come open (Warner went into reads in depth in his analysis). What we saw is that Russell greatly prefers to throw deep -- even into two high safeties -- when he has wide open throws underneath.

What we can't answer is why aren't we holding Russell accountable for not mixing up his throws or taking the checkdown more. I would speculate a) accurate QBs are harder to come by than OCs, so maybe that's why we keep changing them to hopefully find a Russ-Whisperer; and b) he's really f'ing expensive and if he goes into a sulk (like Watson or maybe Rodgers) it can bring down our whole franchise.

Like I said in my OP, if Wilson ever decided to lead the league in first downs, we would kill the rest of the league. He's that good. But if I was playing us, I'd sit in cover 2, double cover all those deep balls, and take my chances. Seattle might hit a few, but without any YAC. More often than not it will just be a wasted down and perhaps a sack, leading to more 3-and-outs.

I don't want us to be that predictable. And I don't think anyone else wants us to be either. So you're Pete Carroll, what do you do? Run the ball more to change things up? Toy with screens and jet sweeps to foster a quick passing game? Change OCs again? I think he's tried all those things. It may jolly well be that if Russell doesn't respond to this OC we ship him somewhere else and go with somebody more coachable next season.

Remember, our coach won national championships with the likes of Matt Leinart and Carson Palmer. Russ would be nice to have, but I'm guessing Pete and John have already discussed who they could replace him with.

a good write up but there are other things you are missing like 3. the HC does not like short passes and prefers long passes which PC has said many times. Also, you talk like Wilson never takes these "lay ups" which he does. I don't agree you can tell what patterns and plays were called because you first must assume the Wr run the right route and routes which we know does not always happen. Also, once again you need to know down and distance and also what the field looked like form the QB perspective something you cannot see from the video that Warner did. Also, that was 1 game and does not mean that is indicative of every game as I already shared he does take the layups.sometimes. I do not agree with you assessment about the OC and being Wilson whisperer, Schotty was let go because you would not or could not adapt. Also lets look at the fact that when we go uptempo Wilson take all different kinds of throws short, intermediate and long. Also lets remember a couple of Wilson's Ints were in fact layups that went right off the receivers hands. So it is disingenuous of Warner or anyone to use1 game and decide it is a hole in any Qbs play. I mean I was just looking on line and found videos were it shows Wilson taking these layups all the time I also saw a game were Warner himself missed layup upon layup. As to PC winning National Championships that is great but that is College this is the NFL and not comparable. there are 100s of colleges there are only 32 NFL teams. Amongst those 100s of colleges they might have 5 players that are NFL caliber. So not a comparison and while we are at it let me remind you Wilson was the 3rd QB under PC. The year before him they had a top defense and run game and were 7-9. Also, this is not PC first NFL HC job, and he never had the success she has had till Wilson. Also, if you look back on all those other QBs he has had in the NFL as a HC you will notice a pattern, a lot of running, throwing long, and very little short passes. This is PCs system. Hopefully the new OC will have the freedom to implement a truly diverse passing attack without PC interjecting. As to them having discussed moving on from Wilson I am sure they have discussed it and realized it would be a huge mistake. Most of you should go back and look at the 2015 season when we lost Lynch that passing attack did all the things you are saying the Warner video showed we do not do, again Warner used 1 game as his example. Yet as soon as Lynch came back we went back to the run and throw long.

well all that aside we also know PC and JS both said Wilson is going to be here a long time so all the rest the nit-picking, the assumptions are garbage. We have had more success with Wilson than ever in our history Wilson has done things no Qb has done. so for those here looking to nitpick I am sorry for you. I suggest you stop nitpicking and enjoy it will all be over soon enough, and we will be back to being irrelevant.

 

[AgentDib]

To me this is the quintessential "armchair QB". Here is a very good QB looking at tape of another QB. He has the chance to play the tape over and over..and then come up with his opinion and solution. I am pretty certain we could pull up 6 or 7 plays from most any one of Kurts games and see something of the same thing.

This is a good point that people should keep in mind. NFL QB is one of the most difficult positions in sports and nobody does it perfectly. Kurt is pointing out some valid things that Russ could have done better. He is doing the same thing for every QB and all of those QBs could similarly find things that Kurt could have done better in his career.

Hitting the layup is one specific area that Russ needs to work on in 2021 and it sounds like the entire Seahawks organization feels the same way, from Carroll to Schneider to Waldron. None of us are perfect, and discussing a weakness does not need to become a debate about a player's inherent value.

 

[nwHawk]

Well said Dib.

It's only through analyzing and discussing can weaknesses be identified and corrected. Russ is a quality player and he has a ton of football ahead of him. As a competitor I bet it was hurtful to hear critical comments from a former QB (and from Cards/Rams QB no less), but this will drive him to improve - and that's a good thing. Hawks don't win another Championship with him unless either he improves or the defense becomes historically great again.

 

[John63]

To me this is the quintessential "armchair QB". Here is a very good QB looking at tape of another QB. He has the chance to play the tape over and over..and then come up with his opinion and solution. I am pretty certain we could pull up 6 or 7 plays from most any one of Kurts games and see something of the same thing.

This is a good point that people should keep in mind. NFL QB is one of the most difficult positions in sports and nobody does it perfectly. Kurt is pointing out some valid things that Russ could have done better. He is doing the same thing for every QB and all of those QBs could similarly find things that Kurt could have done better in his career.

Hitting the layup is one specific area that Russ needs to work on in 2021 and it sounds like the entire Seahawks organization feels the same way, from Carroll to Schneider to Waldron. None of us are perfect, and discussing a weakness does not need to become a debate about a player's inherent value.

This I agree with it something to point out something you can work on, everyone has things they can work on to get better with. I think the issue is some here act like Wilson is the only one who has these things to work on, or that it somehow means he is not a great QB, the you have some who say stupid things like "Layups are not for heroes, and we are blessed with a superhero. OCs have tried to fit round peg into ".

 

[keasley45]

To me this is the quintessential "armchair QB". Here is a very good QB looking at tape of another QB. He has the chance to play the tape over and over..and then come up with his opinion and solution. I am pretty certain we could pull up 6 or 7 plays from most any one of Kurts games and see something of the same thing.

This is a good point that people should keep in mind. NFL QB is one of the most difficult positions in sports and nobody does it perfectly. Kurt is pointing out some valid things that Russ could have done better. He is doing the same thing for every QB and all of those QBs could similarly find things that Kurt could have done better in his career.

Hitting the layup is one specific area that Russ needs to work on in 2021 and it sounds like the entire Seahawks organization feels the same way, from Carroll to Schneider to Waldron. None of us are perfect, and discussing a weakness does not need to become a debate about a player's inherent value.

This I agree with it something to point out something you can work on, everyone has things they can work on to get better with. I think the issue is some here act like Wilson is the only one who has these things to work on, or that it somehow means he is not a great QB, the you have some who say stupid things like "Layups are not for heroes, and we are blessed with a superhero. OCs have tried to fit round peg into ".

It might be true that there are folks here that bash Wilson, say he sucks, that we'd be better off without him, etc. I think its a bit extreme. You dont get to be mentioned as a future hall of famer if you suck. Plain and simple. But there's also a group that will look at the video at the center of this thread and classify the criticisms as the ramblings of an armchair QB, say that Warner has an axe to grind or that the plays he references in the piece are somehow invalid because they are void of context like down and distance or knowing what play was called... or that ultimately Wilson would be so much better if he played in Roger's system, or Mahome's system, or had Brady's blocking.

Both sides are nonsense and lack a fundamental understanding of the complexity of the game. A great O-line can look like garbage if the QB holds the ball too long. A middling O-line can look all world with a QB that gets the ball out quick. A play that works can look like it doesnt if a WR isnt where he is supposed to be when the QB looks for him, or when the WR is there and the QB doesnt get him the ball. You get the point...

What Kurt Warner is isolating are examples where the play is obvious, the read, fairly straightforward, and the execution and ultimate success, or lack thereof, clearly in the hands of the QB. Routes are run, blocking is adequate, and the ball never leaves Wilson's hands. There were countless instances in pivitol moments last season when the same thing happened and the blame can be pretty squarely laid at the QB's feet - blocking is good. the read is there, WR is there, and the ball doesnt come out. rather, the play goes for a zero gain or turnover... OR and this is the complicating factor with WIlson - he makes it work anyway and turns what would have been a catastrophe with any other QB into a highlight real play - but one that was maybe only supposed to pick up a 1st down. But a predictable first down that allows an OC to mark it off as a play that is successful in a given situation, thus building an adaptable playbook and blocks to build on as a game or season progresses

Its not hero ball. Wilson is great but has shortcomings. Unique thing about the guy is that he often cleans up or covers up his own mess (yes, he covers others as well) with his ability to reset the play with his feet and find a receiver anyway. He is HOF great, but has holes in his game like most any great player, outside of the elite few who are generational talents.