Let's Get This One Thing Straight…

Fade

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The Seahawks were supposed to be terrible this year because they were supposed to have nothing at QB. NOT because the defense was gonna suck.

Instead they hit the lottery with a top 5 level player at the position and can't do anything with it. Just like it's been for the last 8 seasons. Nothing's changed. The QB has to play at a near perfect level to win games consistently because so many of the other parts around him are floundering.

So, I was pointing out how they needed to go back to the old defense midway through the ATL game early in the season. They finally did this in the first AZ game and had instant results for a month.

Way better than I could have ever anticipated. I was expecting improvement, mainly due to personnel fit. But they played like a top 5 defense.

I then pointed out that teams were going to dust off the old Pete Carroll beaters, and start to adjust, with Seattle's defense declining back to what it looked like under Norton eventually, but it fell off far bigger, and way faster that it is hardly believable there were ever playing at a top 5 level, though they in fact were.

Adjustments. Seattle is being outmaneuvered on the chess board. Hurtt is in over his head. Pete can't be a full time babysitter.

However, as bad as the defense played. McDaniels chose to chip and double Nwosu a lot, taking Seattle's best pass rusher out of the game. Meanwhile Seattle chose to let Maxx Crosby go 1-on-1 against a rookie all game with no help, and then acted surprised when he impacted the game. This isn't a new thing, either.

It's the lack of attention to detail that I've been harping on for YEARS that will always hold the Seahawks back. Contrary to what a lot of Seahawks fans believe, you don't need the most talented team by far in the league to win the Superbowl. Pete does, to overcome his sloppiness, and this is where it gets misconstrued.

Pete wants to run the ball. (Can't run the ball.)
Pete wants to play great defense (Can't play great defense.)
How many seasons do you need to see before you realize it isn't gonna happen? It doesn't take 10 years to build a defense. It takes 1 to turn it around, and it takes 2 to fully build it. And it takes a 3rd year to put it over the top if necessary. If the right people are in place.

If things were simple, you'd hire an actual Defensive Coordinator. One of the best in the league, given Seattle's resources. But, y'see - Pete and the Defense are a packaged deal. Like Holmgren and his offense were.

If you want the defense to change you're gonna need Pete to promote himself up to an executive position, or fire him as the coach. Otherwise the same issues we've been discussing for YEARS will continue to happen.

The Defense is vet filled. They are not young. (They are young at CB, obviously.) That excuse doesn't fly, and is a cop out. Their D-Line I'd argue is too old, but I digress.

I tried to warn people they were giving Pete too much of JS's and Geno's deserved credit. That is where I give most of the credit for this season. I give Pete credit for developing the young DBs, but most of Pete's issues that have been on display are still intact. Nothing has changed.

Pete has given away the ATL, NO, TB, and LV games. 80% of the teams losses lay at the feet of Pete Carroll, and his underling Hurtt, blowing it by not even showing up on defense. Play at a 24th in the league level in those games and those are all wins.

Pete could've had a 12 win season given the schedule with so many weak opponents and a top 5 QB, even make a playoff run, but he just can't help himself. Pete gonna Pete.

Draft picks are not going to fix this defense. They of course could use better personnel, every team could. Their biggest issues are coaching and scheme related.

Having D-Lineman lineup in the same technique's over and over as you're getting burned repeatedly with no adjustments isn't a talent issue. I mean how many times do you have to keep putting your hand on the hotstove and realize it's actually hot?

At this point, Hurtt has singed off all of his fingers and he still keeps doing it. Bad Hire, and Pete is responsible for said hire.

I understand Pete will continue to get a pass, and nothing will change. That is what makes it frustrating for so many Seahawks fans.
 

NampaHawk

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The Seahawks were supposed to be terrible this year because they were supposed to have nothing at QB. NOT because the defense was gonna suck.

Instead they hit the lottery with a top 5 level player at the position and can't do anything with it. Just like it's been for the last 8 seasons. Nothing's changed. The QB has to play at a near perfect level to win games consistently because so many of the other parts around him are floundering.

So, I was pointing out how they needed to go back to the old defense midway through the ATL game early in the season. They finally did this in the first AZ game and had instant results for a month.

Way better than I could have ever anticipated. I was expecting improvement, mainly due to personnel fit. But they played like a top 5 defense.

I then pointed out that teams were going to dust off the old Pete Carroll beaters, and start to adjust, with Seattle's defense declining back to what it looked like under Norton eventually, but it fell off far bigger, and way faster that it is hardly believable there were ever playing at a top 5 level, though they in fact were.

Adjustments. Seattle is being outmaneuvered on the chess board. Hurtt is in over his head. Pete can't be a full time babysitter.

However, as bad as the defense played. McDaniels chose to chip and double Nwosu a lot, taking Seattle's best pass rusher out of the game. Meanwhile Seattle chose to let Maxx Crosby go 1-on-1 against a rookie all game with no help, and then acted surprised when he impacted the game. This isn't a new thing, either.

It's the lack of attention to detail that I've been harping on for YEARS that will always hold the Seahawks back. Contrary to what a lot of Seahawks fans believe, you don't need the most talented team by far in the league to win the Superbowl. Pete does, to overcome his sloppiness, and this is where it gets misconstrued.

Pete wants to run the ball. (Can't run the ball.)
Pete wants to play great defense (Can't play great defense.)
How many seasons do you need to see before you realize it isn't gonna happen? It doesn't take 10 years to build a defense. It takes 1 to turn it around, and it takes 2 to fully build it. And it takes a 3rd year to put it over the top if necessary. If the right people are in place.

If things were simple, you'd hire an actual Defensive Coordinator. One of the best in the league, given Seattle's resources. But, y'see - Pete and the Defense are a packaged deal. Like Holmgren and his offense were.

If you want the defense to change you're gonna need Pete to promote himself up to an executive position, or fire him as the coach. Otherwise the same issues we've been discussing for YEARS will continue to happen.

The Defense is vet filled. They are not young. (They are young at CB, obviously.) That excuse doesn't fly, and is a cop out. Their D-Line I'd argue is too old, but I digress.

I tried to warn people they were giving Pete too much of JS's and Geno's deserved credit. That is where I give most of the credit for this season. I give Pete credit for developing the young DBs, but most of Pete's issues that have been on display are still intact. Nothing has changed.

Pete has given away the ATL, NO, TB, and LV games. 80% of the teams losses lay at the feet of Pete Carroll, and his underling Hurtt, blowing it by not even showing up on defense. Play at a 24th in the league level in those games and those are all wins.

Pete could've had a 12 win season given the schedule with so many weak opponents and a top 5 QB, even make a playoff run, but he just can't help himself. Pete gonna Pete.

Draft picks are not going to fix this defense. They of course could use better personnel, every team could. Their biggest issues are coaching and scheme related.

Having D-Lineman lineup in the same technique's over and over as you're getting burned repeatedly with no adjustments isn't a talent issue. I mean how many times do you have to keep putting your hand on the hotstove and realize it's actually hot?

At this point, Hurtt has singed off all of his fingers and he still keeps doing it. Bad Hire, and Pete is responsible for said hire.

I understand Pete will continue to get a pass, and nothing will change. That is what makes it frustrating for so many Seahawks fans.
I have rarely posted, usually just to be humorous, but there is definitely something wrong with the philosophy/scheme whatever with the team. I'm super glad they're doing better than expected this year, I really didn't care for Russell Wilson, but for years my wife and I have always said, why does Seattle play DOWN to the level of competition they're playing. I don't know much about the X's and O's of football, and only played at the high school level - but listening to the game on the radio, I heard our own announcers talking about how the Raiders were moving Adams so he was on Jackson as much as possible, but do we counter and put Woolen on him? No, and we wouldn't do that during the LOB era either, Sherman always played his side, never the best receiver. In the super bowl that was lost to the Patriots, we had that no name receiver that was doing well with a few critical catches because he was bigger than the Patriots corner backs, what do they do? Isn't it Browner that said let me cover him because he was BIGGER instead of just playing his side of the field - in essence trying to shutdown what is working for the other team? I really don't get why Pete insists in playing (in what appears to me) vanilla type defense, just play straight up - the only way in my untrained eyes that works is you must have superior talent - that's the only way to overcome other teams adjusting. Where's the blitzes, stunts, etc?

I really don't like Fade's posts because he truly comes off as completely arrogant and superior, but if I can just read them without that as well as the perceived "Pete hate", there is something there.

At the beginning of the year, I'd been happy with a Bronco win and whatever else happened - but Geno has done so well, and the offense, they're 4th in the league in points per game, the expectations for winning certain games are creeping back in, and the same stuff from the last 10 years is still there - a lot of times playing to the level of competition.

So - some of you guys that are way better at the X's and O's and nuances of this professional football, guys I like reading posts like Maelstrom, Keasley, and Sgt Largent - why does this seem to happen so much with the Seahawks? Of course, maybe all teams do this, but since I'm a Seahawk homer, it just seems like it happens more with this team.
 

m0ng0

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Your schtick is old, pete sucks we all know that and Dan Quinn will fix it all as head coach, moving along you are an angry soul who only comes out when the team underperforms...you never suggest anything you just point out the negative. Tell me your plan fade, tell me what you think we should do other than put a bullet in grand dad's head? What scheme makes the best of our defense? Who should start? Who should be on the bench? Give me something instead of Pete and hurtt suck.

It was fun for a while but your not here to solve the problem you are here to point out the bad...which is debatable. And that makes you just another guy with an opinion.


Edited by staff for name calling.
Feel free to re-edit w/o the rule violation.
Pmedic.
 
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Chawker

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Its to late at this point for any worth while changes to make a phantom play off push, instead we should focus on draft positioning, and root for that.
 

Maelstrom787

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I was extremely frustrated that Woolen wasn't shadowing Adams.

I couldn't care about this part. Shadowing is a bygone practice that requires wholesale changes in the secondary, likely causing more errors than the shadowing would solve - especially since Woolen is still an incredibly raw rookie.

Adams had his worst game in a while, even though Carr had the same amount of attempts as usual.

What I can't get over is how pathetic and flaccid the front 7 is. No energy. No grit.
 

chrispy

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I'm pretty enthusiastic about all that Pete's been able to do so far this year. I think the failures will pay dividends as rookies take on larger roles this season and next.

We don't have the horsepower to run the defensive scheme Pete wants to run. We all agree. We just disagree on the solution. I think it'll payoff to give more game snaps before next season when personnel holes are further addressed. That means some ugly games. The alternative is that everyone starts from scratch in 23 in an unfamiliar 3-4, but Seahawks have a few more wins in 22. I like the former but I don't fault anyone for preferring the later.
 

Polk738

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That was a display of cuckoldry on defense and it demands action.
That may be my favorite line of the week LOL!!

Pete even said in his presser that they might've focused too much on Adams so of course they play a lot of two high safety looks, well this of course leads to the light boxes and Josh Jacobs destroying this team on the ground, I don't understand what Pete's obsession with just single players on certain teams, against the Bucs he was so worried about Brady beating them through the air he forgot to play run defense, it was pretty much the same song and dance yesterday. I'm really not getting these gameplans, I'd argue that the secondary is more talented than the D-line but Pete doesn't seem to trust his secondary so he relies on his D-line to get after the QB (news flash, it doesn't) You know what's really frustrating? Listening to the annoucers say over and over again how Seattle can't get pressure and refuse to do anything different to try and get pressure. This defense seemed to play better when Barton's snap counts were limited, I'll be curious to see that again, I distinctly remember one play where he came off the field and Jacobs was tackled for a big loss, anyone else notice Darrell Taylor in coverage? good lord the ghost of KNJ has returned. Anyway those are some of my takeaways.
 

Spohawks

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Why did the corrupt do-nothing mods ban you?!?! I hope you know that I led the charge to get you unbanned! I'm a hero on dot net!
I did notice Welshers saying a few things. Hero? That might be pushing it but we are all glad Fade is back.

Like 787, I think this is a marathon thread of words and I can't make it all 26 miles either. However I agree the 3-4 needs to go, at least with this group we have.
 

GemCity

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There are a few valid points here
I couldn't care about this part. Shadowing is a bygone practice that requires wholesale changes in the secondary, likely causing more errors than the shadowing would solve - especially since Woolen is still an incredibly raw rookie.

Adams had his worst game in a while, even though Carr had the same amount of attempts as usual.

What I can't get over is how pathetic and flaccid the front 7 is. No energy. No grit.
Flaccid. Demoralizing word…and spot on.
 

Rock_the_Hawk

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I'm pretty enthusiastic about all that Pete's been able to do so far this year. I think the failures will pay dividends as rookies take on larger roles this season and next.

We don't have the horsepower to run the defensive scheme Pete wants to run. We all agree. We just disagree on the solution. I think it'll payoff to give more game snaps before next season when personnel holes are further addressed. That means some ugly games. The alternative is that everyone starts from scratch in 23 in an unfamiliar 3-4, but Seahawks have a few more wins in 22. I like the former but I don't fault anyone for preferring the later.
The solution is simple. The solution is that the players grow into the expectation through belief and potential.

The question is will that happen?
 

cymatica

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Adjustments. Seattle is being outmaneuvered on the chess board. Hurtt is in over his head. Pete can't be a full time babysitter.

However, as bad as the defense played. McDaniels chose to chip and double Nwosu a lot, taking Seattle's best pass rusher out of the game. Meanwhile Seattle chose to let Maxx Crosby go 1-on-1 against a rookie all game with no help, and then acted surprised when he impacted the game. This isn't a new thing, either.
This is the kind of crap that makes me pull my hair out. Simple average football IQ stuff and it gets completely overlooked. What's worse is that there were zero adjustments when it mattered most.
It's the lack of attention to detail that I've been harping on for YEARS that will always hold the Seahawks back. Contrary to what a lot of Seahawks fans believe, you don't need the most talented team by far in the league to win the Superbowl. Pete does, to overcome his sloppiness, and this is where it gets misconstrued.


The Defense is vet filled. They are not young. (They are young at CB, obviously.) That excuse doesn't fly, and is a cop out. Their D-Line I'd argue is too old, but I digress.

Having D-Lineman lineup in the same technique's over and over as you're getting burned repeatedly with no adjustments isn't a talent issue. I mean how many times do you have to keep putting your hand on the hotstove and realize it's actually hot?

Can anyone actually refute this? I see people ripping on Fade for his negativity, but I don't see anyone explaining how he is mistaken.
 

Atradees

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We have only built one trench.....the oline. We have been cutting corners on the defensive line for awhile. we are in a full rebuild. When we play defense like that everygame will be up for grabs
 
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SoulfishHawk

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Need to draft a stud Guard at some point though. Then I'll feel a lot better about the O Line next year.

It's ok, if they beat the Rams and the Panthers in back to back weeks, Fade will be back to acting like the team is going to be great. Same guy who changed from they are going to be horrible to they easily win 12 games. And every post turns in to Pete is Satan, blah blah blah. It never fails. Not even worth reading when you see who the OP is. Though this time I skimmed and yep......same old crap.
 

seahawks08

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Cinderalla season but Pete likes promote from within which has a growing curve for coaches. A line coach to DC is a big jump, it will show up in different ways in the game. I think some of Pete’s tendencies or traits are mind boggling but totally respect the guy. I just don’t think he will ever have a star cast coaching line up under him, because he is well respected and people come here to grow under him, not as skilled DCs.
 

jammerhawk

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Yes, it’s the same stuff just warmed over with a spin.

When the team was winning:

-Shane Waldron is a wizard, BUT Pete will screw it up by reverting to what he calls Pete ball which to him is synonymous with crappy football. However, if the team continues with success they must win 12 games or it’s Pete’s fault and he needs to be canned.

-When the D was playing well, BUT Pete will screw it up by interfering with the D. However, the scheme is flawed and has the wrong personnel for a 3-4. That’s Pete’s fault. We watch too and know the run D is not working and accept there are truly some personnel issues.

In the end it’s the same stuff warmed over with reluctant admissions of mistaken perception of the team’s record. When things are going well there is no acceptance that Pete has much of anything to do with anything good, but if there is any bad Pete must wear it.

It’s a tiresome superior schtick passed down to us mere mortals who know so little about football compared to him. He does truly know a good deal about football but his biases cloud his fair objectivity.

All in all there is nothing new here, except another opening to pass on his constant dislike for our Head Coach when it appears opportunistic to do so.
 
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