LJ Collier starting at 5T over Rasheem Green

[Grahamhawker]

If Collier is starting instead of Green at 5 tech, one got to wonder how much Green sucked at training camp.

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Or maybe neither sucked and Collier just had a very good camp

I'm tired of the whole "Collier must suck" narrative. He had some rookie year setbacks.

Given a chance, he can still develop into a solid contributor or more. It's not like it's never happened before.

 

[Fade]

Duh, base 5T is a runstuffers role.

Keeps Rasheem fresh to rush the passer.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

If Collier is starting instead of Green at 5 tech, one got to wonder how much Green sucked at training camp.

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Or maybe neither sucked and Collier just had a very good camp

I'm tired of the whole "Collier must suck" narrative. He had some rookie year setbacks.

Given a chance, he can still develop into a solid contributor or more. It's not like it's never happened before.

Nobody was sticking up for Collier until the offseason passed without any notable DT signings (beyond Reed) and left us with the need to be enthusiastic about him. Before that, he had been mostly written off, fairly or not. So the optimism isn't founded in anything except our own perspective.

I have been made aware of an article out there that indicates Collier was a lot more injured than Carroll originally let on and that his entire year was basically an injury redshirt. If true, that could bode better for him.

 

[Bobblehead]

Our DB's better be damn good.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Our DB's better be damn good.

If they perform as hellishly good as they look on paper, this is a Super Bowl caliber team.

 

[AlciG]

If Collier is starting instead of Green at 5 tech, one got to wonder how much Green sucked at training camp.

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Or maybe neither sucked and Collier just had a very good camp

I'm tired of the whole "Collier must suck" narrative. He had some rookie year setbacks.

Given a chance, he can still develop into a solid contributor or more. It's not like it's never happened before.

Nobody was sticking up for Collier until the offseason passed without any notable DT signings (beyond Reed) and left us with the need to be enthusiastic about him. Before that, he had been mostly written off, fairly or not. So the optimism isn't founded in anything except our own perspective.

I have been made aware of an article out there that indicates Collier was a lot more injured than Carroll originally let on and that his entire year was basically an injury redshirt. If true, that could bode better for him.

I'm pretty sure there were enough people saying to give the guy a chance after missing camp injured en probably never being totally healthy. It's just that you choose not to listen to those people so in your mind nobody stuck up for him.

I don't feel the need to be enthusiastic about anybody. I will wait and see how this plays out in the long run, but I will be cheering for him to do well. Just as I will be cheering for everybody in the team to do well.

 

[Appyhawk]

I'm hoping the Collier start is indicative of performance level in practice than we haven't been privy to, and that he really is coming into his own. That would help us a lot, especially if he prove handy at stuffing the run.

 

[chris98251]

I have to see how devastating he is in his match up this week, Matty Ice is a Statue, Gurly better hit the ground hard and go backwards.

 

[toffee]

I have to see how devastating he is in his match up this week, Matty Ice is a Statue, Gurly better hit the ground hard and go backwards.

This!

We must also remember Collier is basically a rookie that haven't had a complete off season of practice. So it might still take him a few games to totally get into it. If by game 6 or 7, he hasn't flashed .... We can judge.

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[tersal]

Cannot wait to see these guys as well as Alton Robinson I wonder if Green is trade bait for a DT prospect if not could wind up being his final year. Especially if Robinson and Mayowa continue to impress. Also when Taylor gets healthy what then?

 

[olyfan63]

The theory that Collier's injury last year was much worse/more debilitating than Pete let on makes a lot of sense...
Even when Collier finally got on the field, his presence was... well, mostly invisible.

I like to think I understand Pete's player development thinking as a coach...

So last year, Pete wanted LJ to get on the field, not so much for the contribution he would make, but to orient LJ's mind, acclimate him to the speed and intensity of a real NFL game, so he would know the standard he needed to prepare for in the offseason. Collier wasn't really full healthy, hadn't recovered his strength and burst, when he got on the field, but sucked about the same as Pete's other options, so Pete & Norton decided to get LJ some field reps.

It also means...
* Pete believes in LJ's determination, character, and work ethic
* Pete believes in LJ's athleticism, and physical ability to compete, at the NFL level, when healthy
* Pete sees LJ as a multi-year varsity contributor (being at heart still a college coach in many ways)
* Collier has performed well enough in 2020, over Rasheem Green and other options, to earn the start
* Pete is confident enough in Collier's near-term upside that he didn't feel the need to mortgage the farm for Clowney

We know Pete & John love guys who have overcome setbacks and succeeded anyway. LJ Collier checks a lot of boxes on that, losing his mother to cancer as a teenager.

So I went and watched some of Collier's 2019 college tape. Frankly, he looked underwhelming on most plays. So I'm honestly not sure what the Hawks saw in him to merit a 2nd round selection. Slow off the ball, or as some pre-draft reports said, Collier waits for the tackle to show how he's going to block before making any moves. So, I'm going to trust that Pete and John saw raw potential and athleticism they are confident they can coach up into an NFL-caliber difference-maker. I sure hope they're right.

Does anyone think Collier looks like an NFL star instead of like a stiff in this 2018 game vs. Texas? Please educate the doubters on why, and what an NFL scout would take away from this game.

[youtube]Ul4EfIzQOiw[/youtube]

 

[Grahamhawker]

The theory that Collier's injury last year was much worse/more debilitating than Pete let on makes a lot of sense...
Even when Collier finally got on the field, his presence was... well, mostly invisible.

I like to think I understand Pete's player development thinking as a coach...

So last year, Pete wanted LJ to get on the field, not so much for the contribution he would make, but to orient LJ's mind, acclimate him to the speed and intensity of a real NFL game, so he would know the standard he needed to prepare for in the offseason. Collier wasn't really full healthy, hadn't recovered his strength and burst, when he got on the field, but sucked about the same as Pete's other options, so Pete & Norton decided to get LJ some field reps.

It also means...
* Pete believes in LJ's determination, character, and work ethic
* Pete believes in LJ's athleticism, and physical ability to compete, at the NFL level, when healthy
* Pete sees LJ as a multi-year varsity contributor (being at heart still a college coach in many ways)
* Collier has performed well enough in 2020, over Rasheem Green and other options, to earn the start
* Pete is confident enough in Collier's near-term upside that he didn't feel the need to mortgage the farm for Clowney

We know Pete & John love guys who have overcome setbacks and succeeded anyway. LJ Collier checks a lot of boxes on that, losing his mother to cancer as a teenager.

So I went and watched some of Collier's 2019 college tape. Frankly, he looked underwhelming on most plays. So I'm honestly not sure what the Hawks saw in him to merit a 2nd round selection. Slow off the ball, or as some pre-draft reports said, Collier waits for the tackle to show how he's going to block before making any moves. So, I'm going to trust that Pete and John saw raw potential and athleticism they are confident they can coach up into an NFL-caliber difference-maker. I sure hope they're right.

Does anyone think Collier looks like an NFL star instead of like a stiff in this 2018 game vs. Texas? Please educate the doubters on why, and what an NFL scout would take away from this game.

[youtube]Ul4EfIzQOiw[/youtube]

Does he look like a star from that single game tape? I'd have to say no, but that would be a minimal analysis at best.

It seems like most of the pre-draft scouting reports on Collier were pretty consistent with what you mentioned.

I surmise they like how his versatility, good hand fighting, effort and attitude could develop into an inside pass rush specialist ala Mike Bennett, but I think we'd have to hear from Pete and John to know exactly what they saw/see in him. Some notes on their views here: https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/college/big-12/texas-christian-university/article229765284.html.
Highlights:
"L.J. Collier had an impressive senior season at TCU, taking full advantage of becoming a full-time starter by earning All-Big 12 honors. But Collier really started standing out to NFL teams at the Senior Bowl in Mobile, Alabama in late January, bull rushing his way over some of the top offensive linemen in the country.
Schneider told ESPN on Saturday: “He had a great Senior Bowl down there. Tough, competitive guy.
He’s got that chip on his shoulder. Real heavy hands, powerful pass rusher. We were really excited to get him in the mix here. He just fits us -- our culture, what we’re doing here.”

I'm anxious to see what happens.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Not too pleased with the LJ Collier pick, I disliked him as a player even before he was drafted. I watched some of him while he was in college and I wasn't too happy when his name got brought up. I figured he might be a target for the Seahawks though.

The thing that stuck out to me about Collier is he was very slow off of the line. He was very bad at anticipating snaps and his burst seemed very limited. In comparison to somebody like Bennett who was very quick off of the line, sometimes to our detriment. Collier also really only had one move in his repertoire. Another thing that stuck out to me is he really didn't have a great change of direction. Collier looked very stiff and really wasn't good at changing direction unlike many of the elites.

I'm not really feeling like he's going to be a difference maker. Now, I understand that GM's and coaches don't take players for what they were in college necessarily, they take them for what they can become in the pros. Collier to me baffled me because it bucked the Carroll trends. He is a player with a smaller upside, and really poor athletic profile for a Carroll pick. The Collier pick really reminded me more of a Tim Ruskell pick than anything. I'm not confident in his future, but we'll see what Carroll has in store here. It could be that I'm totally of base here.

 

[Mad Dog]

Duh, base 5T is a runstuffers role.

Keeps Rasheem fresh to rush the passer.

This is the answer right here. Collier is likely the better run stopping 5T on the team. Green can come in on passing downs and Collier can move inside to the DT role next to Reed.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Via Pete's Presser:

- Collier in better shape than last year, 100% healthy. Stronger and faster. Seeing him play closer to his potential in camp.

- Ankle injury last year made it so we "didn't really see him" accurately last year.

- Love his high motor and length.

- Says he earned the starting spot.

Edit: Adding Gregg Bell tweet to corroborate. Adding to notes that LJ has lost weight, which is cool. We may see him considerably more explosive, and able to anchor. I suspect his issues with being knocked over had something to do with his ankle not allowing him to forcefully plant, taking his leverage away.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/gbellseattle/status/1304525751824179200[/tweet]

 

[olyfan63]

-snip-
Does anyone think Collier looks like an NFL star instead of like a stiff in this 2018 game vs. Texas? Please educate the doubters on why, and what an NFL scout would take away from this game.

Does he look like a star from that single game tape? I'd have to say no, but that would be a minimal analysis at best.

It seems like most of the pre-draft scouting reports on Collier were pretty consistent with what you mentioned.

I surmise they like how his versatility, good hand fighting, effort and attitude could develop into an inside pass rush specialist ala Mike Bennett, but I think we'd have to hear from Pete and John to know exactly what they saw/see in him. Some notes on their views here: https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/college/big-12/texas-christian-university/article229765284.html.
Highlights:
"L.J. Collier had an impressive senior season at TCU, taking full advantage of becoming a full-time starter by earning All-Big 12 honors. But Collier really started standing out to NFL teams at the Senior Bowl in Mobile, Alabama in late January, bull rushing his way over some of the top offensive linemen in the country.
Schneider told ESPN on Saturday: “He had a great Senior Bowl down there. Tough, competitive guy.
He’s got that chip on his shoulder. Real heavy hands, powerful pass rusher. We were really excited to get him in the mix here. He just fits us -- our culture, what we’re doing here.”

I'm anxious to see what happens.

Thanks for the info and links! I went through about 4 or 5 games of Collier's 2018 college film. The Texas game was the least impressive, but none of the other ones I saw seemed that much much better. Texas Tech, Iowa State, he looked a little better, but not much.

 

[sc85sis]

Via Pete's Presser:

- Collier in better shape than last year, 100% healthy. Stronger and faster. Seeing him play closer to his potential in camp.

- Ankle injury last year made it so we "didn't really see him" accurately last year.

- Love his high motor and length.

- Says he earned the starting spot.

Edit: Adding Gregg Bell tweet to corroborate. Adding to notes that LJ has lost weight, which is cool. We may see him considerably more explosive, and able to anchor. I suspect his issues with being knocked over had something to do with his ankle not allowing him to forcefully plant, taking his leverage away.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/gbellseattle/status/1304525751824179200[/tweet]

They also mentioned on the radio broadcast that Rasheem had a little bit of a shoulder issue he was nursing. It wasn’t enough to keep him from playing though.

 

[AgentDib]

Collier had one very athletic play hurdling the cut block to get to Matt Ryan for the sack/10yd grounding. He didn't get a lot of playtime and I was a little surprised to see Moore get so many of his snaps.

 

[Mad Dog]

I think the first game was a bit of a preseason test with a heavy rotation of Collier, Moore and Green to see where they fit in situations. I think Collier had a nice game and flashed a bit early. Green was invisible other then one decent run stop. Moore also didn't flash much.

I think the Hawks will figure out these guys role as the season goes on. But I haven't seen enough from Green to suggest he should be a clear starter over Collier. He's a 3rd rounder for a reason and it's clear part of that is consistent motor. I think they liked Collier because he doesn't take plays off.

 

[toffee]

I think the first game was a bit of a preseason test with a heavy rotation of Collier, Moore and Green to see where they fit in situations. I think Collier had a nice game and flashed a bit early. Green was invisible other then one decent run stop. Moore also didn't flash much.

I think the Hawks will figure out these guys role as the season goes on. But I haven't seen enough from Green to suggest he should be a clear starter over Collier. He's a 3rd rounder for a reason and it's clear part of that is consistent motor. I think they liked Collier because he doesn't take plays off.

Not taking plays off is a great trait, he didn't embarrass himself in the first game as starter, let's hope he improves from here as confidence grows. Hope he gets lots of QB hurries and 4-6 sacks by the end of the season.

Green is increasingly have that rotational player going.

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