Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...

[West TX Hawk]

I'm actually shocked there's a taker for Zunino. Addition by subtraction. Good 1st step.

Smith is only 25, under club control through '23. He hit .296 with 40 steals this year, so in Seattle assume his avg will drop 25 points and his steals decline 25%. So he'll likely be a steady .271 30 SB guy for us.

Somewhat sorry to see Heredia go. Outstanding defense, could play small ball and do the little things but just never developed into an adequate hitter. Bring on the rebuild and keep the moves coming.

 

[2_0_6]

While Zunino was a disaster standing next to the plate, he was a tremendous asset while behind it.

 

[HawkFan72]

The frustrating thing is we already acquired Mallex Smith once and gave him away for Drew Smyly. It is such a Mariners move to trade for a player they used to already have.

 

[therealjohncarlson]

Holy crap we got rid of useless nice boy zunino and actually got a good player in return. Color me pleasantly SHOCKED!!

 

[Thepeelsessions]

The frustrating thing is we already acquired Mallex Smith once and gave him away for Drew Smyly. It is such a Mariners move to trade for a player they used to already have.

True. It's actually a little irritating. I still like the move, though.

 

[Bobblehead]

I for one am not happy to see Mikeyz go, for years we've been searching, spending high draft picks for a serviceable catcher and we got one.. Sure he's up and down at the plat but what he does with the pitchers and behind the plate was outstanding. IT's a lot easier to find good outfielders than to find a decent catcher. I figure he'll turn his hitting around and be a solid hitter at some point.. I just don't like the move.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I get people wanting to keep Haniger or Diaz because they are really good (Generational talents is a bit of a stretch though I think). However, that's the exact thinking that has kept us in this mediocrity for all these years. Haniger will be 28 this season and if we're talking about a rebuild it's going to be, at minimum, 3-5 years before the talent from your rebuild makes it through the minors and is on your major league roster. Why would you keep Haniger for his 28-32 year old seasons on teams you already plan to have no chance at winning just because you have him under club control or cheap? You're completely wasting that and getting nothing out of it when you're in a rebuild and know ahead of time you aren't fielding teams that have any kind of shot to win. Plus Haniger is only under club control for one more season then he's in arbitration and you have to start paying him a lot more. Granted not as much as if he were a free agent but again, what's the point if you aren't planning to win until 2023 when Mitch will no longer be in arbitration and a free agent?

If you're selling, you sell it all and completely rebuild. If you're going for it then you have to commit to spending like the Redsox and put 250M into the team and not 160M. There is nothing in the middle of those two options that makes any sense no matter how attached any of us are to certain players.

Yep, so unless you think Diaz is the next Rivera that'll be lights out for a decade, why hold onto your biggest asset who could bring back the most prospects during a 4-5 year rebuild?

I absolutely HATE this constant living in the middle the M's continue to do year after year. Either tear it ALL down, or spend 75M more. But don't live in the middle where you're trying to do both.

 

[IndyHawk]

I get people wanting to keep Haniger or Diaz because they are really good (Generational talents is a bit of a stretch though I think). However, that's the exact thinking that has kept us in this mediocrity for all these years. Haniger will be 28 this season and if we're talking about a rebuild it's going to be, at minimum, 3-5 years before the talent from your rebuild makes it through the minors and is on your major league roster. Why would you keep Haniger for his 28-32 year old seasons on teams you already plan to have no chance at winning just because you have him under club control or cheap? You're completely wasting that and getting nothing out of it when you're in a rebuild and know ahead of time you aren't fielding teams that have any kind of shot to win. Plus Haniger is only under club control for one more season then he's in arbitration and you have to start paying him a lot more. Granted not as much as if he were a free agent but again, what's the point if you aren't planning to win until 2023 when Mitch will no longer be in arbitration and a free agent?

If you're selling, you sell it all and completely rebuild. If you're going for it then you have to commit to spending like the Redsox and put 250M into the team and not 160M. There is nothing in the middle of those two options that makes any sense no matter how attached any of us are to certain players.

Yep, so unless you think Diaz is the next Rivera that'll be lights out for a decade, why hold onto your biggest asset who could bring back the most prospects during a 4-5 year rebuild?

I absolutely HATE this constant living in the middle the M's continue to do year after year. Either tear it ALL down, or spend 75M more. But don't live in the middle where you're trying to do both.

I gotta agree..It's time for a total rebuild even if we have to trade Smith AGAIN..
Restock the Farm with a lot of talent,draft wisely and then when the time is right
you buy a few key FA's to go all the way.

 

[DJrmb]

I for one am not happy to see Mikeyz go, for years we've been searching, spending high draft picks for a serviceable catcher and we got one.. Sure he's up and down at the plat but what he does with the pitchers and behind the plate was outstanding. IT's a lot easier to find good outfielders than to find a decent catcher. I figure he'll turn his hitting around and be a solid hitter at some point.. I just don't like the move.

I'm with you on this one. I don't really like the move. Z was a black hole at the plate, I get that. However, he was one of the best defensive catchers in baseball. Catcher isn't a hitting position anyways. I'm not completely against moving him at all, but I feel like this trade was a bad move. You're buying high on a guy that you kind of already have in Ben Gamel. They better hope that 296/367/404 slash line with 40 steals was real and not just one year. Otherwise you just traded 3 players for Ben Gamel 2.0...

 

[West TX Hawk]

I get people wanting to keep Haniger or Diaz because they are really good (Generational talents is a bit of a stretch though I think). However, that's the exact thinking that has kept us in this mediocrity for all these years. Haniger will be 28 this season and if we're talking about a rebuild it's going to be, at minimum, 3-5 years before the talent from your rebuild makes it through the minors and is on your major league roster. Why would you keep Haniger for his 28-32 year old seasons on teams you already plan to have no chance at winning just because you have him under club control or cheap? You're completely wasting that and getting nothing out of it when you're in a rebuild and know ahead of time you aren't fielding teams that have any kind of shot to win. Plus Haniger is only under club control for one more season then he's in arbitration and you have to start paying him a lot more. Granted not as much as if he were a free agent but again, what's the point if you aren't planning to win until 2023 when Mitch will no longer be in arbitration and a free agent?

If you're selling, you sell it all and completely rebuild. If you're going for it then you have to commit to spending like the Redsox and put 250M into the team and not 160M. There is nothing in the middle of those two options that makes any sense no matter how attached any of us are to certain players.

Yep, so unless you think Diaz is the next Rivera that'll be lights out for a decade, why hold onto your biggest asset who could bring back the most prospects during a 4-5 year rebuild?

24 years old, 99-101 mph, 57 saves, 1.97 era, MLB Reliever of the Year, 109 saves total already, 2.64 career era, 301k in 191 inn, effortless arm action and excellent mechanics not likely placing high stress on his arm. Everything does point to him being Rivera like for the next decade. You rebuild but you keep a rare, young, dominant arm like that.

I fully understand the notion though-trade your most valuable asset for as many top 20, top 50, top 100 prospects that you can. And one could argue by trading him we could perhaps get a decent starter and there could be other high 90s guys along the way of a rebuild that could probably close decently. But in the current game where dominant relievers are taking over, he’s a guy you keep. If we rebuild effectively and we’re actually contending in a few years, Diaz is still in his prime. And the best closers don’t come everyday-think how many up and down closers we had for 15 years since Sasaki.

 

[West TX Hawk]

I for one am not happy to see Mikeyz go, for years we've been searching, spending high draft picks for a serviceable catcher and we got one.. Sure he's up and down at the plat but what he does with the pitchers and behind the plate was outstanding. IT's a lot easier to find good outfielders than to find a decent catcher. I figure he'll turn his hitting around and be a solid hitter at some point.. I just don't like the move.

I'm with you on this one. I don't really like the move. Z was a black hole at the plate, I get that. However, he was one of the best defensive catchers in baseball. Catcher isn't a hitting position anyways. I'm not completely against moving him at all, but I feel like this trade was a bad move. You're buying high on a guy that you kind of already have in Ben Gamel. They better hope that 296/367/404 slash line with 40 steals was real and not just one year. Otherwise you just traded 3 players for Ben Gamel 2.0...

People want a rebuild but they’re sorry to see Zuninothing gone? At Safeco in particular, you need as stacked a lineup as possible and we can do a hell of a lot better than .201/.259 last year. Career: .207/.276. Yes, he has a gun but teams hardly run anymore anyway so that’s less important. He handled pitchers well, but so does every 32 year old and up veteran catcher in the league.

Mallex Smith at least gets on base and any major league catcher we insert in the lineup will hit at least somewhat better than Zunino.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

24 years old, 99-101 mph, 57 saves, 1.97 era, MLB Reliever of the Year, 109 saves total already, 2.64 career era, 301k in 191 inn, effortless arm action and excellent mechanics not likely placing high stress on his arm. Everything does point to him being Rivera like for the next decade. You rebuild but you keep a rare, young, dominant arm like that.

I fully understand the notion though-trade your most valuable asset for as many top 20, top 50, top 100 prospects that you can. And one could argue by trading him we could perhaps get a decent starter and there could be other high 90s guys along the way of a rebuild that could probably close decently. But in the current game where dominant relievers are taking over, he’s a guy you keep. If we rebuild effectively and we’re actually contending in a few years, Diaz is still in his prime. And the best closers don’t come everyday-think how many up and down closers we had for 15 years since Sasaki.

I disagree. Closers are THE most volatile pitchers on every team's staff, and if you're relying on Diaz having the same sort of year he had this year 3-4 years from now or longer without diminished returns or serious injuries, then you're just flat out gambling.

Who cares about saves during a complete rebuild? Seriously, it doesn't matter, you're not competing for ANYTHING. So why in hell would you not trade your biggest asset for the most prospects possible at the height of Diaz's value and upside.

Again, Dipoto wants to live in the middle, and it's going to lead to another decade of .500 worthless seasons...........at best.

If your goal is to truly compete for WS's, then what the hell are we doing? Making minor trades for our underperforming or overpriced players is not going to bring back the necessary #1 or #2 organizational prospects to achieve this goal. It's just not.

 

[therealjohncarlson]

24 years old, 99-101 mph, 57 saves, 1.97 era, MLB Reliever of the Year, 109 saves total already, 2.64 career era, 301k in 191 inn, effortless arm action and excellent mechanics not likely placing high stress on his arm. Everything does point to him being Rivera like for the next decade. You rebuild but you keep a rare, young, dominant arm like that.

I fully understand the notion though-trade your most valuable asset for as many top 20, top 50, top 100 prospects that you can. And one could argue by trading him we could perhaps get a decent starter and there could be other high 90s guys along the way of a rebuild that could probably close decently. But in the current game where dominant relievers are taking over, he’s a guy you keep. If we rebuild effectively and we’re actually contending in a few years, Diaz is still in his prime. And the best closers don’t come everyday-think how many up and down closers we had for 15 years since Sasaki.

I disagree. Closers are THE most volatile pitchers on every team's staff, and if you're relying on Diaz having the same sort of year he had this year 3-4 years from now or longer without diminished returns or serious injuries, then you're just flat out gambling.

Who cares about saves during a complete rebuild? Seriously, it doesn't matter, you're not competing for ANYTHING. So why in hell would you not trade your biggest asset for the most prospects possible at the height of Diaz's value and upside.

Again, Dipoto wants to live in the middle, and it's going to lead to another decade of .500 worthless seasons...........at best.

If your goal is to truly compete for WS's, then what the hell are we doing? Making minor trades for our underperforming or overpriced players is not going to bring back the necessary #1 or #2 organizational prospects to achieve this goal. It's just not.

Great post... and completely agree. People argue that Dipoto more often than not buys high and sells low? Well.. here is his chance to reverse that. Sell Diaz, he's a great reliever but as has been alluded to, a great closer is like the cherry top. First build a young competing team, then worry about which reliever will be your closer.

 

[DJrmb]

I for one am not happy to see Mikeyz go, for years we've been searching, spending high draft picks for a serviceable catcher and we got one.. Sure he's up and down at the plat but what he does with the pitchers and behind the plate was outstanding. IT's a lot easier to find good outfielders than to find a decent catcher. I figure he'll turn his hitting around and be a solid hitter at some point.. I just don't like the move.

I'm with you on this one. I don't really like the move. Z was a black hole at the plate, I get that. However, he was one of the best defensive catchers in baseball. Catcher isn't a hitting position anyways. I'm not completely against moving him at all, but I feel like this trade was a bad move. You're buying high on a guy that you kind of already have in Ben Gamel. They better hope that 296/367/404 slash line with 40 steals was real and not just one year. Otherwise you just traded 3 players for Ben Gamel 2.0...

People want a rebuild but they’re sorry to see Zuninothing gone? At Safeco in particular, you need as stacked a lineup as possible and we can do a hell of a lot better than .201/.259 last year. Career: .207/.276. Yes, he has a gun but teams hardly run anymore anyway so that’s less important. He handled pitchers well, but so does every 32 year old and up veteran catcher in the league.

Mallex Smith at least gets on base and any major league catcher we insert in the lineup will hit at least somewhat better than Zunino.

No, I was not saying don't trade of Zunino. My point is that they gave up too much, and traded for a small outfielder who hits for average but with no power. Something they already have in guys like Gamel or Gordon. I also don't like the trade because they traded for a major league player instead of prospects which points to them wanting to try to just shuffling things around again instead of going into a full rebuild.

 

[DJrmb]

24 years old, 99-101 mph, 57 saves, 1.97 era, MLB Reliever of the Year, 109 saves total already, 2.64 career era, 301k in 191 inn, effortless arm action and excellent mechanics not likely placing high stress on his arm. Everything does point to him being Rivera like for the next decade. You rebuild but you keep a rare, young, dominant arm like that.

I fully understand the notion though-trade your most valuable asset for as many top 20, top 50, top 100 prospects that you can. And one could argue by trading him we could perhaps get a decent starter and there could be other high 90s guys along the way of a rebuild that could probably close decently. But in the current game where dominant relievers are taking over, he’s a guy you keep. If we rebuild effectively and we’re actually contending in a few years, Diaz is still in his prime. And the best closers don’t come everyday-think how many up and down closers we had for 15 years since Sasaki.

I disagree. Closers are THE most volatile pitchers on every team's staff, and if you're relying on Diaz having the same sort of year he had this year 3-4 years from now or longer without diminished returns or serious injuries, then you're just flat out gambling.

Who cares about saves during a complete rebuild? Seriously, it doesn't matter, you're not competing for ANYTHING. So why in hell would you not trade your biggest asset for the most prospects possible at the height of Diaz's value and upside.

Again, Dipoto wants to live in the middle, and it's going to lead to another decade of .500 worthless seasons...........at best.

If your goal is to truly compete for WS's, then what the hell are we doing? Making minor trades for our underperforming or overpriced players is not going to bring back the necessary #1 or #2 organizational prospects to achieve this goal. It's just not.

Great post... and completely agree. People argue that Dipoto more often than not buys high and sells low? Well.. here is his chance to reverse that. Sell Diaz, he's a great reliever but as has been alluded to, a great closer is like the cherry top. First build a young competing team, then worry about which reliever will be your closer.

Completely agree with both of you. I'll add that if they're rebuilding, which I kind of doubt now after the Z trade, by the time your ready to compete it's time to pay Diaz anyway. So in a sense you could have traded Diaz for a kings ransom and then used the same 20m+ you'd have to give him to just buy whoever the best closer is at the time when you're ready to compete. You also don't have to assume the risk of him getting injured or regressing. It just makes sense in a rebuild. The only reason to have young controllable players is to compete for a WS. If you already know you won't be doing that for multiple years you're simply wasting him and then he'll probably leave anyway and you got no value.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

I'm all for a rebuild. Got zero problem if they trade anyone on this team. You have to give up to get. It sounds like we aren't trading Haniger, Marco and Diaz. The only guy that I think can get a lot on the market is Paxton, Segura and Colome.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

Zunino was top 5 defensive catcher and saved runs by arm and framing and pitch selection. However most fans dont look into that and look for the fun stats. You know BA and Homers.

Dont be shocked if mike hits 30+ in TB with .220 avg and again is top 5 defensive catcher.

 

[Bobblehead]

I don't want to see us do a 2 year rebuild.. it's what we've done and it's not going to be any better than where we are now. I really believe, we have some good leverage players who we can get some value for.. Tear the team down, start it right with great prospects that are 4 to 5 years away from being stars. I think there are several teams in the league that went this approach and they are now winning World series or are contending too.. It's the only model to follow I think.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I don't want to see us do a 2 year rebuild.. it's what we've done and it's not going to be any better than where we are now. I really believe, we have some good leverage players who we can get some value for.. Tear the team down, start it right with great prospects that are 4 to 5 years away from being stars. I think there are several teams in the league that went this approach and they are now winning World series or are contending too.. It's the only model to follow I think.

Dipoto's doing it because it's self serving. He doesn't want to do a complete tear down, because then that's out past his contract extension.

Yes, the only way to do it right is a complete tear down like the Red Sox, Astros, Cubs and White Sox are now doing.

Again, can't live in the middle. If you don't have the prospects ready to pop in the next two years (which we don't, thanks Jack Z).............then you either spend ungodly amounts more to get frontline players in free agency, or you do a complete tear down and start from scratch and hope your GM knew what he was doing.

But a two year rebuild? Huh Wat? We've got holes all over the roster and staff, what is trading away our middling players and bringing back more middling players and lowly rated prospects accomplishing?

Absolutely no one should be untouchable on a rebuild in baseball.

 

[knownone]

I pretty much agree with most of you.

It seems like the only way to execute this 2-year rebuild while still remaining competitive would be to trade Paxton and some of your higher value guys for prospects while also signing free agents to offset your losses. This probably won't happen because Seattle already has a high payroll and there is a significant risk in adding big money free agents that could have long-term ramifications.

I hope the front office commits one way or the other. If they are gonna blow it up blow it up. If they are gonna try to retool be ready to spend some money in the process as well to replace the guys you move... no more of this halfway in bullcrap.