Most polarizing Hawks player of all time?

[BlueTalon]

There has been a LOT of, shall we say, disagreement and controversy among the 12s concerning Pete Carroll on this forum over the past few years. If you consider much of that was spawned by Russ/Team3/Let-Russ-Cook, then I would say the Pete Carroll angst easily tips the scale, and RW is by far the most polarizing Seahawk player since the Nordstrom family was awarded the Seattle NFL expansion franchise in 1974.

 

[RiverDog]

There has been a LOT of, shall we say, disagreement and controversy among the 12s concerning Pete Carroll on this forum over the past few years. If you consider much of that was spawned by Russ/Team3/Let-Russ-Cook, then I would say the Pete Carroll angst easily tips the scale, and RW is by far the most polarizing Seahawk player since the Nordstrom family was awarded the Seattle NFL expansion franchise in 1974.

I'm not sure if the difference of opinions regarding Pete Carroll falls into the category of polarization. With players like Russell and the Boz, the negative emotions that are expressed border on hatred. I don't get that same sense when it comes to negative remarks made about Pete.

Most people that speak negatively about Pete, which at times includes Yours Truly, will talk about him in more respectful terms, such as he was once a great coach but it's time to move on, or something of that nature. But with Russell, the remarks are more corrosive, like he's a selfish, insincere charlatan, and that's a G rated comment. We've all seen far worse.

Another non-player that could be considered polarizing is Ken Behring, except that it takes two poles to be polarizing. I don't know, or didn't know, of any Seahawk fan that had anything good to say about him.

 

[BlueTalon]

Another non-player that could be considered polarizing is Ken Behring, except that it takes two poles to be polarizing. I don't know, or didn't know, of any Seahawk fan that had anything good to say about him.

You're exactly right about Ken Behring not being polarizing, because us was universally disliked. It takes two poles to be polarized.

Pete, on the other hand, was polarizing, regardless of whether the anti-Pete side had respect or not. Judging by the pages of this forum, opinion was divided almost 50-50, and that's about as polarized as things can get. My earlier point, which remains, is that much of that division concerned how Pete was perceived to be holding Russ back, and how horrible of a mistake it was to be trading our franchise QB while keeping our over-the-hill coach. And if you consider all of that Pete-angst to be a subset of RW's polarizing effect, then IMO Russ becomes by far the most polarizing figure in Seahawks history, and it's not even close. Whoever is second is a very distant second.

Just how I see it, anyway.

 

[RiverDog]

You're exactly right about Ken Behring not being polarizing, because us was universally disliked. It takes two poles to be polarized.

Pete, on the other hand, was polarizing, regardless of whether the anti-Pete side had respect or not. Judging by the pages of this forum, opinion was divided almost 50-50, and that's about as polarized as things can get. My earlier point, which remains, is that much of that division concerned how Pete was perceived to be holding Russ back, and how horrible of a mistake it was to be trading our franchise QB while keeping our over-the-hill coach. And if you consider all of that Pete-angst to be a subset of RW's polarizing effect, then IMO Russ becomes by far the most polarizing figure in Seahawks history, and it's not even close. Whoever is second is a very distant second.

Just how I see it, anyway.

Oh, I agree with you that Russell is the most polarizing Seahawk in franchise history. Boz is probably the closest, but even he is light years away, and with all due respect to PMed, I don't think that the communication era makes that big of a difference. If Russell did what he did back in the 80's, he would have generated the same amount of controversy that he did in today's era of internet and social media. Russell spent 10 years at the most important position on the field and played in two of our only 3 SB, winning our only Lombardi. Boz was here for just a couple of years.

I'm just saying that there's a dramatic difference between the type of polarization that existed/exists with Russell and that of Pete's.

 

[pmedic920]

Well I am the poster and I asked in the poll who the most polarizing Hawks player was. My statement went on to talk about .Net and the threads and posts.

Unfortunately because my post was bumped from the only place you can have a poll the poll question was lost. (PS I explained in my post to the mods I put it in the Hawks forum because of the poll but it was still bumped)

I was asking about who the most polarizing Hawks player was to hawk fans!

Perhaps the poll should have remained where it was.

For instance if I wanted to have a poll who was the over all best running back Seahawk, I couldn't because it would be discussing former players and therefore can't be in main forum, so I couldn't make the poll.

Needs to be changed.

BTW obviously people don't actually read what is posted. My post is below and cant be more clear what the post was.
"Having watched all of the treads on .NET for a long time and thinking about what some have said about the continual threads and posts throughout .NET about RW.

I started wondering what player in the history of the Hawks has been the most polarizing to the team and the .NET fan base and the posters.

Like someone said, it is amazing that since March 2021 in almost every forum in almost every thread, RW somehow ends up in the discussion. Both good and bad. Even though he is no longer a Seahawk.

That got me thinking about all the players that have come and gone through the Hawks organization. Can anyone tell me a player who has been more polarizing and discussed than RW.

If you can think of a name other than RW please name him and your reasons so we can discuss it

MODS: This is posted in the Main forum because you cant make a poll in the NFL nation."

We fully understand but as I already alluded to, your poll apparently was directed at RW specifically and that’s why it got moved to the NFL.
The main page doesn’t need to be clogged up with Wilson threads.

Should you have further comments on the issue, please use the PM process to avoid further rule violations.

 

[olyfan63]

Well, I'm part of the 'fan base' - and I wish that Tyler would try harder for YAC. I would also like Richard Sherman and DK to stop approving and/or enabling that behaviour.

Not sure how that makes me lesser of a fan.....

And my vote's kinda for Percy Harvin. I know that is probably a strange selection.

You have a point - the technology itself tends to 'amplify' opinions - that's for sure -

You're right - TL's YAC issues are almost identical to SA's issues back in the day. Both are business decisions. And, actually, when you put the religion and chastity stuff in the bucket - there's really not that much difference between SA and TL at all!

Tyler Lockett's YAC "issues" are a non-issue. He gets open, gets the first down by being smart about how to run his route, he catches everything thrown to him, and he gets down rather than take a big hit that might easily land him on the injured list. So Tyler winds up with 93 yards and 5 first down catches for the game instead of 102 yards and 5 first downs? Big deal! IMO Tyler's situation could not be more different than Shaun's situation (after broken foot and getting paid). Tyler is still producing at an NFL elite level, and has been good for 16 games started and 1000 yards every season since 2019, and an average of 50+ first downs during that stretch, including last year. I'll take a consistently AVAILABLE and EXCELLENT Tyler over an INJURED Tyler who toughs out an extra 10 yards a game and gets injured and lost for the season in week 10.

It was difficult to find any in-depth videos discussing Shaun's steep fall from statistical dominance to declining also-ran. From what I saw, the foot injury wiped out Shaun's elite cut-and-go ability and elite speed and explosiveness out of the cut. Maybe someone has a link to a good written or video breakdown that discusses this? Also, a lot of people thought Shaun made too many "business decisions" after his foot injury and other injuries starting in 2006.

Tyler has been the same excellent Tyler for the last 5 years or more, with stellar production each of those years, despite any "business decisions". Once Shaun started making business decisions, in 2006 after his injury, and/or lost his explosiveness, his production went to $chitt and stayed there.

The bit about Percy Harvin being polarizing... that definitely deserves more discussion than it's gotten so far in this thread. Yeah, his kick return TD in SB48 when the game was mostly decided put multiple final nails in the Bronco's coffin, but aside from that, he contributed next to nothing and was a locker room cancer and injury-malingerer IMO. Maybe everyone has forgotten how much draft capital and super-yacht million$ we gave up for Harvin only to get nearly nothing in return and trade him for peanuts?

 

[CalgaryFan05]

Tyler Lockett's YAC "issues" are a non-issue.

Well, you and I are gonna have to disagree I think. I think it's a problem. BUT, here's the thing:

I seem to be in the small minority - including his teammates and other NFL players.

The game isn't calling for toughness anymore, and the players are starting to make a whole bunch off business decisions. And, the fact that they support each other in that is not lost on me.

This might be the wrong thread - but I find it amusing to a certain extent that JSN has been brought in to seemingly shore up the intermediate passing - 9-20 yards - game. It's shoring up an approach that would have gotten your head taken clean off by a Kam or someone similar 5 or 10 years ago. Nobody afraid to run short crossing routes anymore, are they? Used to call that hanging your receiver out.

League's changing. I get it. I didn't change. Guess time for me to yell at some clouds!

The bit about Percy Harvin being polarizing... that definitely deserves more discussion than it's gotten so far in this thread. Yeah, his kick return TD in SB48 when the game was mostly decided put multiple final nails in the Bronco's coffin, but aside from that, he contributed next to nothing and was a locker room cancer and injury-malingerer IMO. Maybe everyone has forgotten how much draft capital and super-yacht million$ we gave up for Harvin only to get nearly nothing in return and trade him for peanuts?

Yup.

 

[BASF]

Tyler Lockett's YAC "issues" are a non-issue. He gets open, gets the first down by being smart about how to run his route, he catches everything thrown to him, and he gets down rather than take a big hit that might easily land him on the injured list. So Tyler winds up with 93 yards and 5 first down catches for the game instead of 102 yards and 5 first downs? Big deal! IMO Tyler's situation could not be more different than Shaun's situation (after broken foot and getting paid). Tyler is still producing at an NFL elite level, and has been good for 16 games started and 1000 yards every season since 2019, and an average of 50+ first downs during that stretch, including last year. I'll take a consistently AVAILABLE and EXCELLENT Tyler over an INJURED Tyler who toughs out an extra 10 yards a game and gets injured and lost for the season in week 10.

It was difficult to find any in-depth videos discussing Shaun's steep fall from statistical dominance to declining also-ran. From what I saw, the foot injury wiped out Shaun's elite cut-and-go ability and elite speed and explosiveness out of the cut. Maybe someone has a link to a good written or video breakdown that discusses this? Also, a lot of people thought Shaun made too many "business decisions" after his foot injury and other injuries starting in 2006.

Tyler has been the same excellent Tyler for the last 5 years or more, with stellar production each of those years, despite any "business decisions". Once Shaun started making business decisions, in 2006 after his injury, and/or lost his explosiveness, his production went to $chitt and stayed there.

The bit about Percy Harvin being polarizing... that definitely deserves more discussion than it's gotten so far in this thread. Yeah, his kick return TD in SB48 when the game was mostly decided put multiple final nails in the Bronco's coffin, but aside from that, he contributed next to nothing and was a locker room cancer and injury-malingerer IMO. Maybe everyone has forgotten how much draft capital and super-yacht million$ we gave up for Harvin only to get nearly nothing in return and trade him for peanuts?

You are short selling the Anti-SA posters before 2005. There were dozens of complaints on a weekly basis before 2005 that Shaun only ran hard inside the twenty yard lines. There were dozens of complaints about him running out of bounds to avoid contact. There were dozens of posts that woud point out the holes "I could run through" made by Jones and Hutch that meant that SA was not any better than any back in the league, he just had an advantage. For every Calgary now regarding No E, there were a few dozen posters for SA. As I said, the people went back and forth for years to the point I dedicated way too much of my time going through play by plays for each game for SA and eight other RBs then watching All 22 for SA and eight other RBs, to verify what I had read just to shut up most of them. There were still a few holdouts, but it certainly brought some perspective.

 

[Rainger]

We fully understand but as I already alluded to, your poll apparently was directed at RW specifically and that’s why it got moved to the NFL.
The main page doesn’t need to be clogged up with Wilson threads.

Should you have further comments on the issue, please use the PM process to avoid further rule violations.

That was your interpretation. If you look at the discussion it is NOT a RW thread.

Nor was it intended. There was the all important Other because there were to many others to list.

If you note more discussion is about the Boz or SA etc.

You made a decision and you are defending it, that is your right and power as a Mod

But I am allowed to have an opinion that it was not a good decision. Or is this the ministry of truth from 1984 and only Mods hold truthful positions?

Is this post a violation of a rule? Because I have an opinion?

I have not attacked anyone, swore or anything else.

In fact the last post I made was to clarify that the thread was about Hawk players not the entire NFL. How is that a further rule violation?

 

[pmedic920]

That was your interpretation. If you look at the discussion it is NOT a RW thread.

Nor was it intended. There was the all important Other because there were to many others to list.

If you note more discussion is about the Boz or SA etc.

You made a decision and you are defending it, that is your right and power as a Mod

But I am allowed to have an opinion that it was not a good decision. Or is this the ministry of truth from 1984 and only Mods hold truthful positions?

Is this post a violation of a rule? Because I have an opinion?

I have not attacked anyone, swore or anything else.

In fact the last post I made was to clarify that the thread was about Hawk players not the entire NFL. How is that a further rule violation?

Actually it is.

No discussion of Moderation, or Moderators in public.

Use PMs for further comments or discussion.

And for the record it’s NOT my interpretation, I’m basing my statement on what another Mod had to say.
I already told you that I didn’t see your poll.


Edit:
Heads up to all.

RW threads belong in the NFL forum “unless” there is something specific that makes it a main page topic.

If you have any doubts, submit it it for clarification.
If you fail to submit for clarification and it gets moved, PLEASE understand that it’s on you and not a Moderator picking on you.

If you have a question or concerns about something that’s been done with one of your posts, the appropriate thing to do is use the PM process to contact staff.