My Kngdom for an Oline

[Maelstrom787]

We had best pass blocking line for this era with 14th rank.

A huge feat considering this might be the hardest scheme to block for in the entire league. Heavy pass split, quarterback tends to hold ball and look off checkdown, dropbacks tend to be straight drops, little lateral movement in scheme... just all-around a tough scheme that asks a lot of its blockers. Demands a lot of straight-up wins against the opposing line.

League best OL would probably look like the 8th-12th best here last season.

That's part of why I'm so excited about Lewis. Dame Lewis allowed only 4 pressures ALL SEASON within 2.5 seconds. The rest of his pressures (24) came later than 2.5 seconds post-snap. I'm telling ya, if they take a bit of pressure off of the line scheme-wise (either have Russ get the ball out like a hot potato or lean more on the rushing attack), they're gonna look better. Significantly.

 

[DomeHawk]

We had best pass blocking line for this era with 14th rank.

29th in QB sack percentage. Not nearly good enough.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-pct

 

[flv]

The Ron Wolf way that Schneider learned under is all about using mid to late-round draft picks to build Olines.

The best O lines in the NFL are not built with high round draft picks. They are built with bargain bin free agents and mid-round draft picks.

Packers Oline

David Bakhtiari 4th round draft pick All-Pro
Cory Lindsley 5th round draft pick All-Pro
Billy Turner bargain bin free agent
Lance Taylor UDFA
Ricky Wagner big-money free agent with the Lions, bargain bin free agent with the Packers.

Rams Oline
3 bargain bin free agents a 2nd and 5th round draft pick

Bills Oline
4 bargain bin free agents and 2nd round draft pick

With salary cap football the Oline coach is turning out to be more important than the team's OC. Teams must be able to find the right coach who can find and develop the Oline so the team can use the cap savings for QBs and impact players.

I guess the Seahawks have a bargain bin 3rd round QB.

 

[chet380]

We have one potential stud lineman, Dame Lewis.

He’ll take some more time to develop but, I have more faith in him than any other lineman on the team.

We have one. Not a lot but you gotta start somewhere.

Carroll and his team of scouts just aren’t great talent evaluators.

I think that has to be recognized first.

Gotta say Carrol has been pretty awful when it comes to o-line... anything. I guess I can see the logic behind investing frugally in the early years when you have and exceptionally elusive qb in Wilson. But whether it's talent evaluation, coaching, or scheme, save for one season, it hasn't worked.

I do agree that Wilson does his line no favors with his tendency to hold the balla nd just not pull the trigger, but they also haven't been especially remarkable in run blocking or pass pro.

A huge part of this offensive rebuild should be investing in some big men up front so that Russ can get comfortable and work through whatever it is he needs to to get better.

Not just Bitonio. They also passed on Ramczyk. So not the only OL they missed. I'm pretty sure we could have built a rock solid line with all the first and second round picks they passed on the last few years.

Carroll and his talent evaluators couldn’t find talent at the pro-bowl...jokes.

They also passed on Duvernay-Tardif (who had the highest SPARQ for OL that year) and took a guy who never played b/c of health reasons.

 

[sdog1981]

I guess the Seahawks have a bargain bin 3rd round QB.

Is this some joke from 2014 that just got posted?

He is working on his third contract with the team so he would be considered a top-flight free agent in reference to what I posted.

 

[flv]

I guess the Seahawks have a bargain bin 3rd round QB.

Is this some joke from 2014 that just got posted?

He is working on his third contract with the team so he would be considered a top-flight free agent in reference to what I posted.

It's the same joke that you posted when you referred to Bakhtiari as a bargain bin 4th round pick rather than as a $48M player over the last 4 years who recently signed the biggest O-Line deal in NFL history.
It's the same joke that you posted when you referred to Whitworth as a bargain bin FA or 2nd round pick rather than as the $12-15M per year player he's been paid as by the Rams.
It's the same joke that you posted when you used the Rams as an example of one of the best O-Lines to fit your agenda whilst ignoring their #31 ranking in 2019.

Resources are resources whether they're cap cash or Draft picks. Using above or below average resources on the O-Line hasn't shown to be more or less effective than spending them on other positions. The only thing that has consistently worked is having a good HC & QB at the same time.

 

[sdog1981]

I guess the Seahawks have a bargain bin 3rd round QB.

Is this some joke from 2014 that just got posted?

He is working on his third contract with the team so he would be considered a top-flight free agent in reference to what I posted.

It's the same joke that you posted when you referred to Bakhtiari as a bargain bin 4th round pick rather than as a $48M player over the last 4 years who recently signed the biggest O-Line deal in NFL history.
It's the same joke that you posted when you referred to Whitworth as a bargain bin FA or 2nd round pick rather than as the $12-15M per year player he's been paid as by the Rams.
It's the same joke that you posted when you used the Rams as an example of one of the best O-Lines to fit your agenda whilst ignoring their #31 ranking in 2019.

Resources are resources whether they're cap cash or Draft picks. Using above or below average resources on the O-Line hasn't shown to be more or less effective than spending them on other positions. The only thing that has consistently worked is having a good HC & QB at the same time.

There we go some real substance to talk about. Since the HC and QB are the only thing that matters, you feel that nothing should be done about the Oline?

My post references the fact that most posters here think "my kingdom for an Oline" means throw every draft pick at linemen. When the problem is how the team evaluates Olinmen.

Bakhtiari was really good even as a rookie that is why is working on his 3rd deal with the Packers. Out of all the draft picks the Seahawks have spent on draft picks only three of them have been good enough to warrant a second or third contract and the team let two of them leave.

 

[flv]

There we go some real substance to talk about. Since the HC and QB are the only thing that matters, you feel that nothing should be done about the Oline?

My post references the fact that most posters here think "my kingdom for an Oline" means throw every draft pick at linemen. When the problem is how the team evaluates Olinmen.

Bakhtiari was really good even as a rookie that is why is working on his 3rd deal with the Packers. Out of all the draft picks the Seahawks have spent on draft picks only three of them have been good enough to warrant a second or third contract and the team let two of them leave.

HC and QB AREN'T the only things that matter. I didn't say that they were. Nor did I say how I feel. Most teams struggle with O-Line recruitment. The Rams have 2 recent 3rd round picks in their O-Line group and neither are starters. The #33 overall O-Line pick they acquired from the Browns is an average or below average starter. Gruden had 3 highly paid O-Linemen on the Raiders early in his tenure and that group was 1 of the best in the NFL. However, it didn't elevate the Raiders offense or propel the team into the playoffs.

The Seahawks have struggled in recent years with their O-Line. Part of that is from having an improvisational QB, part of it is from having a recruitment strategy based on best athletic talent regardless of skill or football IQ, (which at least meshes with a simplistic smash-mouth approach), and part of it is luck. Physical battlers will naturally deteriorate more quickly than less physical but technically skilled players. If the team is drafting exceptional physical battlers rather than technically skilled O-Linemen it will naturally have a higher turnaround of players. If the Seahawks aren't prepared to pay 2nd contract money to O-Linemen after their rookie deals expire then it shouldn't matter whether those players stay in the league or not.

 

[sdog1981]

If the Seahawks aren't prepared to pay 2nd contract money to O-Linemen after their rookie deals expire then it shouldn't matter whether those players stay in the league or not.

I feel this is the crux of the problem. The Seahawks are running with this idea that they can get linemen with replacement draft picks. At the same time, they were willing to trade and sign an older vet like Duan Brown.

The way they are building the Oline now is not working, they have drafted fewer O-linemen over the past few drafts and still have not improved with the players they have kept. Something needs to give, a guy like Solair might do better with older linemen and the team might need to build the line with cheap free agents.

 

[tersal]

Watching the games yesterday I was struck by how good the Olines were for all the teams still in the playoffs. We have a good QB, good receivers, good running backs, but we don't have the horses up front. We need some new linemen and backups that can fill in without a big drop off in performance. It is the biggest weakness of the Pete Carrol era. Give Russell more time, and always give him an outlet receiver and open some damn holes for Carson and Penny and Hyde and we will dominate. GB practically ran at will against the Rams. Josh Allen made batches of wings in the pocket while he surveyed the field. Probably fed them to his Oline.

Cooking takes time.

It's not rocket surgery, it's an Oline.

Correct the Rams sacked Russ 15 times in three games, they were the worst matchup for the Hawks.

 

[tersal]

I was pondering making a thread about this very thing because it seems a lot of people are back on the Pete bandwagon of yeah let’s run more to set up the play action deep pass and it bugs me because to make that work you have to have a solid offensive line both for pass protection for those time consuming 5-7 step dropbacks as well as run blocking.

And yet the very thing you need a fantastic offensive line to make work is the very thing Pete has never invested heavily in. It’s bizarre, and the only reason it worked in the Super Bowl appearances was because we had lynch who regularly needed to break tackles just to get to the line of scrimmage, and we had/have Wilson who was/is great at dodging sacks and making miracles happen on pass protection breakdowns.

Not to mention the LOB to rely on when all those 3 and out punts rolled in despite Wilson’s and Lynch’s best efforts. I remember well all those drive killing offensive line penalties from having to block for 10 seconds straight

Yet one more reason why Pete is simply the wrong man for the job here, as if poor scheming, adjusting, clock management, and predictability weren’t playoff killers for us as it is.


We do not have a RB like Lynch, Wilson is no longer as elusive as he used to be, and there’s no evidence Pete is going to give us a strong oline. Peteball simply will not work.

Carson breaks a lot of tackles. Russ still can scramble but the Hawks cannot rely on that. Solari has been excellent at run blocking pass protection not very good.

 

[IndyHawk]

Same argument for years..
An OL cannot be effective when you hold the ball
too long or go off script..Russ clearly does not like
being in pocket without taking 7 long steps.

 

[John63]

Same argument for years..
An OL cannot be effective when you hold the ball
too long or go off script..Russ clearly does not like
being in pocket without taking 7 long steps.

Considering Wilson once again was top 5 I. Hit, hurried, pressured and sacked in 2.5 seconds or less seems they can't be effective at all. As to how the ball again stip havi g all long developing plays, as yo off script then trying being imaginative with your plays. As to 7bstep if they know that's what is being called they should be Rady to block for it. Also fyi his office script or scramble saves 20+ sacks a year also.

 

[IndyHawk]

:shock: :34853_doh: :179419: :177692:
After seven steps someone will likely be nearby which
is the point..Your asking a line to hold up that long?
Watch the game on now and watch their steps.

 

[John63]

Wow so watching g playoffs, seeing Brady and Rodgers miss wide open guys, throwing behind them, taking 7 step drops. Hmm so it's not just wilson, and yet some on here act like it is.

 

[John63]

:shock: :34853_doh: :179419: :177692:
After seven steps someone will likely be nearby which
is the point..Your asking a line to hold up that long?
Watch the game on now and watch their steps.

I am a saw plent of 7 step drops, some even further than 7. What I also see is adjustments made, something we don't do.

 

[Sea84hawks]

Iv always said this that bring in 5 hall of fame blockers and the best OC, you are going to get the same shit from Wilson because:

1) will not get rid of the ball unless the wr is wide open.

2) he refused to throw short/slants.

3) can't see over linemen so he has to bail the pocket. You can't block for a guy that doesn't say in the pocket.

His bread and butter has always been when he play breaks down, that's when he gets yards and big plays. He doesn't play traditional qb, that stays in the pocket or execute time sensitive plays.

Trade him while he has any value. Bring in Stafford or any decent qb and then watch this team win!

 

[Maelstrom787]

Iv always said this that bring in 5 hall of fame blockers and the best OC, you are going to get the same shit from Wilson because:

1) will not get rid of the ball unless the wr is wide open.

2) he refused to throw short/slants.

3) can't see over linemen so he has to bail the pocket. You can't block for a guy that doesn't say in the pocket.

His bread and butter has always been when he play breaks down, that's when he gets yards and big plays. He doesn't play traditional qb, that stays in the pocket or execute time sensitive plays.

Trade him while he has any value. Bring in Stafford or any decent qb and then watch this team win!

Absolutely not. There are nuggets of truth in there as far as things that Russell is RELATIVELY weak at, but to insinuate he is incapable of success in a traditional offense is just unconscionably stupid, especially after watching the past 3 years of him operating successfully within a fairly traditional offense.

Meanwhile, bringing in a quarterback like Stafford who has won jack-shite and never proven to be better than Russell at really any single thing that's tangibly measured somehow will lead the team to the promised land?

Y'all are losing it.

 

[StoneCold]

Russell is not the problem. If it was i would have titled the thread, "My kingdom for a Russell Replacement" I did not do that.

Even with the rag tag group we won 12 games, but by the time we got to the playoffs our horse were old, tired or inexperienced. Get an Oline. Draft, free agent, nugget in the undrafted pool. It does not seem to be a strong point with Pete and John or it's not a priority, but it's plain to me that we need more talent in the starters and more depth behind them. Could be every team forum has this same thread, and good Olines are hard to find, but we need one.

 

[StoneCold]

Hadn't been in the main thread for a few weeks. And when I did check in, there were several threads talking about trading Russ and DK. WTF I thought? I totally missed Russ's latest press conference and his talk about not being happy. Which has spawned new threads about who to make happy. Pete or Russ. My thoughts come back to this thread. Get a good Oline and Russ will have time to throw, and he's happy. Get a good Oline and we can run the ball, Pete's happy.

I know it's an easy thing to say, but it is the answer to this problem. Too bad Pete and John haven't shown an ability to draft, buy, trade for a good Oline. If they don't, we are seeing the end of the best era in Seahawk football. Who knows how long it will be until we see another.