Pete appreciation thread.

[Maelstrom787]

he was hated at USC for how he left that program. Dallas, KC, San Fran, Pitts all are know for having a family type feel where players stick around and a culture that encourages it.

I’d also how good is the current culture if Pete says he talked to Jamal and said we can’t have that only for Jamal to be interviewed next and essentially say yeah I’m glad I did and when they go low I go lower? It rendered Pete powerless.


Again I’m not saying Pete doesn’t deserve credit for building a great culture I’ll just agree to disagree that he’s the only one or that it’s ultra rare. I think we have at least slightly overrated it and/or with all the other issues it overpowers the good.

Jamal looked like a horse's ass for doing so, and I'm sure it's been handled internally and will greatly affect decisions made about his future here.

 

[strohmin]

Bahahahahahahshahaah.

Pete is the most overrated coach in Seattle sports history.

He had a dynasty in the palm of his hand and chose to flush it.

The players later calling the situation, the titanic.

2 more failed rebuilds later, and here we are.

I dont think he was overated untill we lost the superbowl. However, he became overrated after that because of how he handled that superbowl loss. No accountabilty or nothing.

 

[Ozzy]

Jamal looked like a horse's ass for doing so, and I'm sure it's been handled internally and will greatly affect decisions made about his future here.

I hope so. But if he felt fine going against Pete after the talk it worries me.

Here’s a counter thought just to drive dialogue. Is it possible that we USED to have a great culture but some of that has slipped? Today quoted from players seemed different, Pete sort of through the players under the bus and almost exclusively blamed them (execution), stuff like Jamal and I would argue I’m not sure the players are all panting hard. I watched a couple of defensive players almost give up on plays today.

So for sake of argument let’s agree the culture at least at one time was special and rare. Isn’t it possible that a coach can lose that?

 

[cymatica]

Dude, come on. That's not even close to what I said. I actively acknowledged that I'm partially separating culture from results, because it mostly is. They remain a high-floor team regardless because of the culture. They don't fall apart in the face of disappointment because of the culture.

I'm really tired of words being put in my mouth. You're reducing my point to a point I'm not even making, and that's not fair. I'm not doing that to you or anyone else in this thread.

Sorry not trying to put words in your mouth, but I think culture is tied to results. 4 game losing streak and Pete is starting to throw players under the bus.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I hope so. But if he felt fine going against Pete after the talk it worries me.

Here’s a counter thought just to drive dialogue. Is it possible that we USED to have a great culture but some of that has slipped? Today quoted from players seemed different, Pete sort of through the players under the bus and almost exclusively blamed them (execution), stuff like Jamal and I would argue I’m not sure the players are all panting hard. I watched a couple of defensive players almost give up on plays today.

So for sake of argument let’s agree the culture at least at one time was special and rare. Isn’t it possible that a coach can lose that?

It's possible, and I agree that it isn't what it was. I don't know what it is, but the comradery doesn't seem to be quite what it was. They lost some of the imposition they used to have. The framework is still there and they seem resilient, but I do what to see more -fight-. Some real fight. Anger toward the enemy.

 

[James in PA]

This guy sums it up pretty well. It's just time. Same for Tomlin in Pittsburgh (not that anyone here gives a flip about them).

Pete discussion starts at 23:29.

 

[LTH]

Bahahahahahahshahaah.

Pete is the most overrated coach in Seattle sports history.

He had a dynasty in the palm of his hand and chose to flush it.

The players later calling the situation, the titanic.

2 more failed rebuilds later, and here we are.

Who do you work for? The 49ers? The Rams? Russell Wilson?

2 failed rebuilds? Like you didn't think the last 2 drafts were good? Yeah right!

Regardless of what is happening this year if some fans want to appreciate Pete Carroll you just got to sh!t all over it?

What a joke.

LTH

 

[CalgaryFan05]

Bahahahahahahshahaah.

Pete is the most overrated coach in Seattle sports history.

He had a dynasty in the palm of his hand and chose to flush it.

The players later calling the situation, the titanic.

2 more failed rebuilds later, and here we are.

Whatever dude.

Pete may be losing it, but he's the only one the brought us an owl.

I'm not happy with the season, same as everyone else. I'm not happy with the defense, same as everyone else.

It is what it is. We are who we thought we were. Pete's in his twilight, and there's a blowup in the near future. Or not.

Depends what Jody wants.

The rest has been talked to death.

You do you.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Some of this thread is disappointing.

Without Pete this team never wins a Super Bowl. Full Stop.

Without Pete we don't get one of the most dominant defenses, and maybe the best secondary in NFL history.

The problem?

Pete was tremendously successful. And like many successful people, he likely stopped second-guessing himself. Maybe even created rules as the reasons for his success. This created a rigid framework for success that might not have even been the real driver originally.

Pete isn't a great coach tactically or strategically. Was he ever? He's a program builder and talent developer. (or was).

His strength was finding 'flawed' players and developing/using them to minimize their weaknesses & maximize their strengths. The problem was he stopped doing that. He started trying to replace players to play like the players they replaced. Which of course highlighted weaknesses and minimized strengths of the new players.

Pete was so focused on The Way That Worked Before, he never realized he probably stopped questioning himself and adjusting some time ago. The NFL is about change...Pete's refusal to change killed his effectiveness.

He's now failing at what he did well that drove his first successes. Which makes his weaknesses more glaring.
But without Pete, this team would have never been as successful as it was.
It just won't be successful again with him. It does not diminish what he accomplished in creating one of the best NFL teams ever (though Scott likely get some of that credit too)

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Bahahahahahahshahaah.

Pete is the most overrated coach in Seattle sports history.

He had a dynasty in the palm of his hand and chose to flush it.

The players later calling the situation, the titanic.

2 more failed rebuilds later, and here we are.

 

[knownone]

I'm not worried about Pete's ability to coach or build winning cultures. That's a proven commodity. Don't get me wrong. The last four games and next season are absolutely pivotal for Pete's continued tenure with the team. But the current criticism is so disjointed that it's hard to take seriously. For example, some of the same people who deride Geno as a backup QB are the ones who think Pete's underachieving with a talented roster. How do you square that circle? QBs correlate with winning more than HCs.

There are genuine critiques by people who are not doing mental gymnastics to confirm their priors. And the issues they bring up are fair concerns. The team's highest-paid players are some of the least disciplined. The coaching staff, particularly on offense, doesn't always scheme in ways that benefit their personnel. Similarly, despite being above average on a down-to-down basis, the defense is horrendous because they continue to give up big plays. Those are correctable issues, but until they are corrected, it falls on Pete.

 

[Wheetie]

Some of this thread is disappointing.

Without Pete this team never wins a Super Bowl. Full Stop.

Without Pete we don't get one of the most dominant defenses, and maybe the best secondary in NFL history.

The problem?

Pete was tremendously successful. And like many successful people, he likely stopped second-guessing himself. Maybe even created rules as the reasons for his success. This created a rigid framework for success that might not have even been the real driver originally.

Pete isn't a great coach tactically or strategically. Was he ever? He's a program builder and talent developer. (or was).

His strength was finding 'flawed' players and developing/using them to minimize their weaknesses & maximize their strengths. The problem was he stopped doing that. He started trying to replace players to play like the players they replaced. Which of course highlighted weaknesses and minimized strengths of the new players.

Pete was so focused on The Way That Worked Before, he never realized he probably stopped questioning himself and adjusting some time ago. The NFL is about change...Pete's refusal to change killed his effectiveness.

He's now failing at what he did well that drove his first successes. Which makes his weaknesses more glaring.
But without Pete, this team would have never been as successful as it was.
It just won't be successful again with him. It does not diminish what he accomplished in creating one of the best NFL teams ever (though Scott likely get some of that credit too)

Man, this is perfectly stated, well done. I also think he believes that his style of defense, which led to the SB win, is tied to his legacy, and any deviation from that is admitting that what once made him great no longer works, therefore rendering his coaching of no further value moving forward. He's sticking to his guns and going down with the ship at this point.

 

[oldhawkfan]

Sorry not trying to put words in your mouth, but I think culture is tied to results. 4 game losing streak and Pete is starting to throw players under the bus.

Culture and w/L results are completely different things. Pete has built an incredible football culture regardless of whether he wins a Super Bowl or only wins a handful of games.
I could use my sociology degree and go deeper and include a lot more information about culture but I won’t.

The idea of culture is basically tied to how things are done not the outcomes of those things. Every society or even group has its own unique culture. From macro(countries) to micro(family unit) A family unit of 2 or 3 people has in effect it’s own culture.

Pete’s culture building is really second to none in the NFL over his 14 years in Seattle. It’s remained fairly consistent. If you want to include W/L records, which isn’t by definition culture, he’s still consistent in generating a winning team.

 

[cymatica]

Disagree, If the results are not good, then something is wrong with the culture. Good culture generally produces good results, they aren't mutually exclusive. I don't consider winning regular season records and losing playoff records over a decade as positive or a good result. That indicates that when the team faces real challenges and quality opponents, they fold.

 

[AROS]

Love me some Pete.

But it's time to go, old friend. Thanks for the memories.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Exactly. He WAS a very good coach. He's just way past his expiration date. This team needs fresh blood, and a lot of it.