Report: Seahawks management not happy with Wilson

[ducks41468]

I just find it interesting that Russ's comments mentioned Tom.

Remember, Tom purposely took less money for his entire career so the team could afford to have the personnel it needed to support Tom. It is only after 19 years, 9 super bowl appearances, and 6 super bowl wins was he able to get a team to allow him to have the input he wanted. He still took a significant pay cut compared to what he could have got on the market.

You can't ask to be the highest-paid player in the league when you negotiate, ask for significant input on the team's business decisions, and not have the record and history to back it up.

While Russ has done some amazing stuff, he has done some embarrassing stuff as well. He is a high risk, high reward player. Tom is a calculated player who is able to make plays happen much more consistently. Tom is a much safer investment.

For what Russ wants, I don't know that it is even possible. He needs ownership. Allow him to buy into the team at 2012 valuation, 1% ownership for each year he continues to play for the team. IE: He can buy 1% of the team for ~$10,000,000 in 2021,1% more in 2022 for an additional $10,000,000, 1% more in 2023 for an additional $10,000,000 and continuing until he leaves the team via trade/free agency/retirement.

Restructure his contract to something like $15,000,000 a year. This allows the team to work under the salary cap to afford better players. As an owner, he would have some say in the direction the team goes with personnel but would ultimately be a minority and could be overruled by Jody/Vulcan if the front office disagreed with Russ's ideas.

It also gives Russ and the Seahawks a future. Jody/Vulcan would still be the real owner of the team in effect by controlling 90% or more of the team. But, when Russ ultimately retires, he could take on a role in the management of the team.

This helps Russ realize his impossible dream of owning an NFL team, and allows Jody/Vulcan to keep the team in their portfolio without having to actively manage the day to day operations. They obviously aren't concerned about milking the most value out of the team as possible, that is against the Allen family beliefs. Allowing Russ to own a tiny piece wouldn't be a huge concession.

I am not Russ's biggest fan and it wouldn't hurt my feeling too much he was cut/traded. But it doesn't make sense just a couple of years ago they were fully bought in on him being the future of the franchise and now they'd dump him even though his play hasn't been terrible.

He has to realize that he put himself in the situation. Mr. anything for the team, went for the big paycheck instead of putting the team first. Somehow, a lot of people think of Tom as a primadonna, and Russ as a company man, but their actions prove otherwise.

Another ridiculous argument. Why on earth would he restructure to 15m a year? That basically makes him the second lowest paid QB not on a rookie deal, only ahead of Bridgewater at 14m. Like why would he fall on his sword for a myopic fanbase that thinks he owes them something?

And speaking of Brady, even on "team-friendly" contracts he was still within 5-10m of the highest paid QB in the league in any given year. Look at 2014 for example. He was paid about 6m less than Flacco in a year where the salary cap was 133m. Great, so he saves you 4% of the cap. Again, that's not gonna even come close to making or breaking your year.

It's not like he's playing at the min and saving you 20-30m a year. At best he gives you room for 1-2 extra free agents, and even then as a team you actually still have to sign the right players with that money.

 

[Hawkpower]

I just find it interesting that Russ's comments mentioned Tom.

Remember, Tom purposely took less money for his entire career so the team could afford to have the personnel it needed to support Tom. It is only after 19 years, 9 super bowl appearances, and 6 super bowl wins was he able to get a team to allow him to have the input he wanted. He still took a significant pay cut compared to what he could have got on the market.

You can't ask to be the highest-paid player in the league when you negotiate, ask for significant input on the team's business decisions, and not have the record and history to back it up.

While Russ has done some amazing stuff, he has done some embarrassing stuff as well. He is a high risk, high reward player. Tom is a calculated player who is able to make plays happen much more consistently. Tom is a much safer investment.

For what Russ wants, I don't know that it is even possible. He needs ownership. Allow him to buy into the team at 2012 valuation, 1% ownership for each year he continues to play for the team. IE: He can buy 1% of the team for ~$10,000,000 in 2021,1% more in 2022 for an additional $10,000,000, 1% more in 2023 for an additional $10,000,000 and continuing until he leaves the team via trade/free agency/retirement.

Restructure his contract to something like $15,000,000 a year. This allows the team to work under the salary cap to afford better players. As an owner, he would have some say in the direction the team goes with personnel but would ultimately be a minority and could be overruled by Jody/Vulcan if the front office disagreed with Russ's ideas.

It also gives Russ and the Seahawks a future. Jody/Vulcan would still be the real owner of the team in effect by controlling 90% or more of the team. But, when Russ ultimately retires, he could take on a role in the management of the team.

This helps Russ realize his impossible dream of owning an NFL team, and allows Jody/Vulcan to keep the team in their portfolio without having to actively manage the day to day operations. They obviously aren't concerned about milking the most value out of the team as possible, that is against the Allen family beliefs. Allowing Russ to own a tiny piece wouldn't be a huge concession.

I am not Russ's biggest fan and it wouldn't hurt my feeling too much he was cut/traded. But it doesn't make sense just a couple of years ago they were fully bought in on him being the future of the franchise and now they'd dump him even though his play hasn't been terrible.

He has to realize that he put himself in the situation. Mr. anything for the team, went for the big paycheck instead of putting the team first. Somehow, a lot of people think of Tom as a primadonna, and Russ as a company man, but their actions prove otherwise.

Another ridiculous argument. Why on earth would he restructure to 15m a year? That basically makes him the second lowest paid QB not on a rookie deal, only ahead of Bridgewater at 14m. Like why would he fall on his sword for a myopic fanbase that thinks he owes them something?

And speaking of Brady, even on "team-friendly" contracts he was still within 5-10m of the highest paid QB in the league in any given year. Look at 2014 for example. He was paid about 6m less than Flacco in a year where the salary cap was 133m. Great, so he saves you 4% of the cap. Again, that's not gonna even come close to making or breaking your year.

It's not like he's playing at the min and saving you 20-30m a year. At best he gives you room for 1-2 extra free agents, and even then as a team you actually still have to sign the right players with that money.

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but by taking any kind of cut, he’s not doing it for a myopic fan base, wouldn’t he be doing it for himself? Isn’t he the one who wants better players around him? He’s complaining, and yet his contract is part of the problem....

 

[misfit]

I just find it interesting that Russ's comments mentioned Tom.

Remember, Tom purposely took less money for his entire career so the team could afford to have the personnel it needed to support Tom. It is only after 19 years, 9 super bowl appearances, and 6 super bowl wins was he able to get a team to allow him to have the input he wanted. He still took a significant pay cut compared to what he could have got on the market.

You can't ask to be the highest-paid player in the league when you negotiate, ask for significant input on the team's business decisions, and not have the record and history to back it up.

While Russ has done some amazing stuff, he has done some embarrassing stuff as well. He is a high risk, high reward player. Tom is a calculated player who is able to make plays happen much more consistently. Tom is a much safer investment.

For what Russ wants, I don't know that it is even possible. He needs ownership. Allow him to buy into the team at 2012 valuation, 1% ownership for each year he continues to play for the team. IE: He can buy 1% of the team for ~$10,000,000 in 2021,1% more in 2022 for an additional $10,000,000, 1% more in 2023 for an additional $10,000,000 and continuing until he leaves the team via trade/free agency/retirement.

Restructure his contract to something like $15,000,000 a year. This allows the team to work under the salary cap to afford better players. As an owner, he would have some say in the direction the team goes with personnel but would ultimately be a minority and could be overruled by Jody/Vulcan if the front office disagreed with Russ's ideas.

It also gives Russ and the Seahawks a future. Jody/Vulcan would still be the real owner of the team in effect by controlling 90% or more of the team. But, when Russ ultimately retires, he could take on a role in the management of the team.

This helps Russ realize his impossible dream of owning an NFL team, and allows Jody/Vulcan to keep the team in their portfolio without having to actively manage the day to day operations. They obviously aren't concerned about milking the most value out of the team as possible, that is against the Allen family beliefs. Allowing Russ to own a tiny piece wouldn't be a huge concession.

I am not Russ's biggest fan and it wouldn't hurt my feeling too much he was cut/traded. But it doesn't make sense just a couple of years ago they were fully bought in on him being the future of the franchise and now they'd dump him even though his play hasn't been terrible.

He has to realize that he put himself in the situation. Mr. anything for the team, went for the big paycheck instead of putting the team first. Somehow, a lot of people think of Tom as a primadonna, and Russ as a company man, but their actions prove otherwise.

Tom also left new england when they couldnt surround him with the proper talent to compete anymore

and won a super bowl the next year

 

[DomeHawk]

Russ is only voicing what I and many others have been saying for too many years. The difference being that he is approaching an ultimatum. "Get me an O-line or I am outa here."

Either they listen up or lose him, he isn't going to spend his last years in the league being knocked down every other play.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

I read that the Hawks have a huge cap hit / dead money with a trade so no way it happens. But I have a lot less faith than I did 2 weeks ago that Russ will be a Seahawk for life

 

[DomeHawk]

I'm really glad Wilson is calling out Carroll's offense, I just gained a whole lot more respect for him. This is what I was waiting for, the competitive fire that you see with guys such as Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning. Everything Wilson is saying is the truth.

This is the Wilson i've been waiting to see, the true fierce competitor underneath the cooperate soldier image.

^^^^Good take.

 

[TraderGary]

I think there's a rift between PC and Wilson, because PC appeases but doesn't really change much, and I think Russ doesn't feel like he's been taken seriously in house, nor does he believe that things will change by keeping things in house, so he's nudged via media, and he's frustrated. I feel the problems are mostly due to Carroll's offensive philosophy, he's rigid and his schematic limitations are lending to Wilson having to do too much, and to get hit, and they've been long figured out.

Wilson had to do something because he wants to get to the Superbowl and win it not go one and done in the playoffs and get killed in the process. Carroll's schemes actually have to be thrown out the window, he needs to keep away, hopefully they are actually doing that now with Waldron, it appears Wilson has lost faith after 9 years in PC to actually change much though.

This is my sense as well, and I will just add these thoughts.

Russ seemed pretty happy when Waldron was selected to be the new OC. By all reports, that was the man he wanted. But now, in the span of just a couple weeks since the Waldron hiring, we are seeing an unhappy Russ once again.

I really hope I'm wrong about this, but I'm wondering if this in an indication that in the initial meetings between Russ, PC, and Waldron, Pete is already showing signs of neutering Waldron's offense and putting his own spin on it, or objecting to many things Waldron wants to do with Russ and the offense in general. That would not be a stretch by any means, and could very well be contributing to Russ being unhappy with the direction the team is going in.

I don't think this is just about the OL. I think it's about the direction of the offense in general, and I think Pete is doing his typical micromanaging when it comes to controlling what the offense can and cannot run in Waldron's offensive scheme.

 

[DomeHawk]

I don't think this is just about the OL. I think it's about the direction of the offense in general, and I think Pete is doing his typical micromanaging when it comes to controlling what the offense can and cannot run in Waldron's offensive scheme.

Is that it? Nothing it what Russ has said indicates that but his reference to getting sacked is pretty obvious. Other than just pure speculation on your part what evidence do you have to suggest that?

 

[TraderGary]

I am going to guess Wilson has brought this up again and again in house.

Nothing has been fixed.

He is frustrated now and talking to people due to the nothing getting done.

Sherman had a similar situation with the team, they even allowed him to go and find another team that wanted to trade for him. Pete and John said no to the offer and that was that.

But the difference we have this go around is it isn't about money with Wilson, every other discussion about QB's is contracts, Wilsons isn't.

Call it philosophical difference about the teams offense and schemes.

The last three guys who had this issue are not here either.

They just didn't play QB.

These are my feelings as well. I firmly believe he's tried the philosophical route and nothing has changed. He probably feels this is the only option left to him.

 

[Hawkpower]

I am going to guess Wilson has brought this up again and again in house.

Nothing has been fixed.

He is frustrated now and talking to people due to the nothing getting done.

Sherman had a similar situation with the team, they even allowed him to go and find another team that wanted to trade for him. Pete and John said no to the offer and that was that.

But the difference we have this go around is it isn't about money with Wilson, every other discussion about QB's is contracts, Wilsons isn't.

Call it philosophical difference about the teams offense and schemes.

The last three guys who had this issue are not here either.

They just didn't play QB.

These are my feelings as well. I firmly believe he's tried the philosophical route and nothing has changed. He probably feels this is the only option left to him.

He could improve his play and become more consistent

So calling out his teammates, coaches and front office isnt really his ONLY option

 

[TraderGary]

I don't think this is just about the OL. I think it's about the direction of the offense in general, and I think Pete is doing his typical micromanaging when it comes to controlling what the offense can and cannot run in Waldron's offensive scheme.

Is that it? Nothing it what Russ has said indicates that but his reference to getting sacked is pretty obvious. Other than just pure speculation on your part what evidence do you have to suggest that?

No evidence whatsover, as you said, just pure speculation on my part. But I find the timing of all this to be rather "curious".

By all indications, Russ got exactly who he wanted as the new OC. After the announcement was made, every quote I read that was associated with Russ was positive. Now all of a sudden we're hearing a completely different tone. So what changed in the span of about 2 weeks?

It just feels to me like something recent triggered this new outspoken Russ. (Which I support by the way). Timing wise, with the hire of the new OC, and knowing Pete's history of micromanaging and putting his stamp on the offense, and knowing Pete and Russ have completely different offensive philosophies, this theory makes complete sense to me.

I could very well be completely off base on this theory, and for all our sakes, I really hope I am. But I think it's a real possibility this is playing into Wilson being unhappy with the way things are currently being run.

Again, this is just conjecture on my part, and I have nothing to back it up with other than the timing factor. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Sealake80]

I used to like RW. Now it’s nah.

Be more fun to see someone else at this point.

 

[TwistedHusky]

TG,

What changed was that Wilson realized he wasn't stuck here because of that contract.

It is actually Watson that forged things, Tom was near a FA. Watson showed that a QB WITH a guaranteed big money contract and plenty of years left on the deal, can force a trade nonetheless by driving public pressure on the org.

It might not work for Watson after all because the Texans but it might work here.

That was the moment Wilson realized he could keep the contract and still not have to put up with the awful gameplans from Carroll.

 

[getnasty]

TG,

What changed was that Wilson realized he wasn't stuck here because of that contract.

It is actually Watson that forged things, Tom was near a FA. Watson showed that a QB WITH a guaranteed big money contract and plenty of years left on the deal, can force a trade nonetheless by driving public pressure on the org.

It might not work for Watson after all because the Texans but it might work here.

That was the moment Wilson realized he could keep the contract and still not have to put up with the awful gameplans from Carroll.

Compairing Watson's situation to Wilson's is laughable. Watson showed you can try to force a deal but he hasn't actaully been dealt.

 

[ducks41468]

TG,

What changed was that Wilson realized he wasn't stuck here because of that contract.

It is actually Watson that forged things, Tom was near a FA. Watson showed that a QB WITH a guaranteed big money contract and plenty of years left on the deal, can force a trade nonetheless by driving public pressure on the org.

It might not work for Watson after all because the Texans but it might work here.

That was the moment Wilson realized he could keep the contract and still not have to put up with the awful gameplans from Carroll.

Players are taking note of what's happening in the NBA and realizing that they too can improve their leverage (and NBA stars will outright hold their teams hostage, like Harden).

 

[Fade]

I used to like RW. Now it’s nah.

Be more fun to see someone else at this point.

Peteball with no Wilson to pull rabbits out of the hat in the 4th quarter, would be so fun. :shock: :shock:

 

[justafan]

Its a nothing burger. No QB likes getting hit and they all want better Olines. The guys in the trenches win games they always have and always will. I do wish he would be more accountable though. He mentions Brady and Labron using their clout but he isnt on that level. He is great but not in the GOAT conversation at all.

I think he is just making the media rounds for the perfume business.

 

[rsRyno]

I think it’s warranted for him to speak out. Don’t get me wrong, he’s gotta get the ball out and that’s on him, but he’s clearly seeing phantom pressure most plays. He doesn’t trust his line enough to step up in the pocket instead of bailing. Hopefully a new offensive scheme will allow for more quick throws instead of longer developing plays. A lot of people like to say Carroll’s a players coach, that he doesn’t call out his guys, but I’ve noticed in at least this last season that he’s clearly blaming the players. He’s said as much many times. He flat out said it in a press conference this year. He blamed the players and said the struggles weren’t on the coaching staff. Carroll needs to see that the coaching is an issue.