Seahawks now ranked 15th in defense

[JayhawkMike]

The Defense has improved but I’m not sure why that would be the source I would use to show that.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... 20/opp.htm

Just depends on if you want to rank based on scoring, yardage or other factors, Based on passing yards given up we are ranked as the worst defense in the NFL. Based on rushing yards given up we are now ranked 3rd in the league. You can parse them anyway you want. I think we are improving. I also think we are playing teams with weaker offenses. I’m hoping our defense plays well next week. I have no confidence in our defense against a top 10 offense in the league. But, we do have some pieces I like including Adams and Dunlap.

 

[iigakusei]

I think they are getting better, but there are still mind blowing breakdowns of simple coverages.
Couple examples from the Washington game (sure there are more but these are the ones I found):
Logan Thomas catch at 8:15 of the 2nd quarter - what on earth is KJ Wright doing?
McLaurin catch at :56 of 3rd quarter. 3rd and 11, and not a defensive player within 10 yards of him when he catches it.
McKissic TD in the 4th quarter - Griffin and Wager what on earth are you doing?
These mistakes are just unacceptable for players who have been in the league as long as these guys. Simple, easy offensive concepts we just completely blow defensive coverage. These are smart players so it has to be coaching right?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Or, they're just a better defense than they were the 1st half of the season??? Why is it so hard to accept that they are getting better?
I know the NWBS is strong here. But now it's the NDBS......

 

[AgentDib]

The turnaround story for our defense is mirrored across the NFL landscape. Defenses started this season way behind offenses due to the lack of pre-season and full contact practices, and after week 6 or so they caught back up. Everybody was giving up more yards than usual and it's not that surprising that our bend but don't break defense looked particularly bad in terms of yardage allowed.

Those who confused that with the defense being historically bad put too much emphasis into that one particular stat and completely missed the forest for the trees. After the first five games we were #2 in run defense, #5 in takeaways, and middle of the pack in points allowed. The singular awful defensive performance was the week 6 game against the Bills where Josh Allen stomped us for 60 minutes, but there was massive overreaction to that one bad loss against a very good team while we were missing a ton of key pieces.

If you have to look at just one stat then EXP (expected points contributed by the defense) is probably the best choice and we are 20th. That factors in points allowed, turnovers and field position.

 

[bmorepunk]

Not sure how accurate this assessment really is as an indicative of our defense. We've played some really bad QBs recently.

Here's the average opposing QB performance over the last four weeks:

Yards Passing: 187
TDs Per Game: 1
INTSs Per Game: 1
Completion %: 60.0
Yds/Attempt: 5.0

If you go and pull those guys' stats for the season, they were held to around their average by this defense.

Cam Newton had his third best game of the season against the Seahawks. Nick Mullens had his best game of the season, and he played one quarter. This team didn't stop, or even slow down, bad offenses earlier this season. Now they're doing it pretty consistently. That's an enormous difference.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Solid numbers, regardless who they are going against imo.

 

[LoneHawkFan]

The turnaround story for our defense is mirrored across the NFL landscape. Defenses started this season way behind offenses due to the lack of pre-season and full contact practices, and after week 6 or so they caught back up. Everybody was giving up more yards than usual and it's not that surprising that our bend but don't break defense looked particularly bad in terms of yardage allowed.

Those who confused that with the defense being historically bad put too much emphasis into that one particular stat and completely missed the forest for the trees. After the first five games we were #2 in run defense, #5 in takeaways, and middle of the pack in points allowed. The singular awful defensive performance was the week 6 game against the Bills where Josh Allen stomped us for 60 minutes, but there was massive overreaction to that one bad loss against a very good team while we were missing a ton of key pieces.

If you have to look at just one stat then EXP (expected points contributed by the defense) is probably the best choice and we are 20th. That factors in points allowed, turnovers and field position.

But what it doesn't factor in is time. It still uses data from weeks 1-8, which skew all of the averages down and sits us as a middling defense. In real time, this isn't a middling defense. Where are we in that category just the last 6 weeks? My guess is that we're a lot better than #20 and we're likely top10.

The point of all of this, this entire thread is to attempt to identify a trend- that this defense is much improved over the first half of the season and that using season averages doesn't tell the story. I guarantee that opposing coaches are seeing this as a top10 defense as opposed to whatever their opinion was of the same unit 6-8 weeks ago.

When Edgar was winning batting titles, he didn't hit .350 every month of the season. He got hot; in real time he was hitting .400 or .500 for weeks at a time, several times a season...other stretches .200. The Seahawks defense is currently hitting .500.....it doesn't matter right now that we hit .037 the first month of the season; we're not interested in batting titles. How in the hell does that even matter? We may not win the batting title...but there aren't very many pitchers who want to face us rt now I'll tell you that much.

 

[LoneHawkFan]

I think they are getting better, but there are still mind blowing breakdowns of simple coverages.
Couple examples from the Washington game (sure there are more but these are the ones I found):
Logan Thomas catch at 8:15 of the 2nd quarter - what on earth is KJ Wright doing?
McLaurin catch at :56 of 3rd quarter. 3rd and 11, and not a defensive player within 10 yards of him when he catches it.
McKissic TD in the 4th quarter - Griffin and Wager what on earth are you doing?
These mistakes are just unacceptable for players who have been in the league as long as these guys. Simple, easy offensive concepts we just completely blow defensive coverage. These are smart players so it has to be coaching right?

Defenses have a playbook as well- and it isn't simple. A player's responsibility can change several times during the same play depending on motion/pre-snap reads, personnel, play call, etc...and everyone on the defense has to all be on the same page with those changes, constantly, in real time. With the amount of turnover in our defensive backfield, I can easily see how on a handfull of plays designed to trick defenses- that we're indeed still getting tricked every once in a while.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Great points ^
I can't imagine any team wanting to face the Hawks. Especially w/their playoff experience and a QB who is one of the best finishers and winners in the history of the NFL.

 

[ivotuk]

The link in the OP points to info geared toward fantasy football. "If you are looking for fantasy points scored by defenses, we have them in order for you. Some teams are betting scoring in the fantasy department because they force more turnovers, while some teams like the Patriots play bend don’t break, which isn’t exactly fun for fantasy at times. If you're researching for your fantasy football draft, see our fantasy team defense rankings and all the Lineups.com Fantasy Football Rankings."

According to ESPN, they are still #26 ranked defense (total) -
https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/view/defense/table/passing/sort/netYardsPerGame/dir/asc

It is an improvement from being #32, for sure.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make when choosing one set of stats over another. But I don't see much value in either.

There is only one stat in the NFL that matters, and a fews years back, we were #1 at it 4 years in a row.

This year, not so much. After an abysmal start, we have jumped to 14th in Points Per Game Allowed. That is phenomenal!

And if anyone wants to say "yeah but, this almost happened, or that almost happened," Then I say, "We were without our starting DBs and Safeties for a few of those games. And, a lot of those points came when Seattle was playing bend but don't break." But for me, none of that really matters. Only the "W" and PPG allowed.

Passing yards and rushing yards are fun stats to look at, but they can be skewed by a team trying to play catch up, or trying to run the clock out. So those stats would need to be evaluated for each game, and the opponents strengths or weaknesses.

Personally, I love stats, but I love PPG the most,

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/v ... me/dir/asc

 

[hawks85]

15th is a huge, HUGE deal. Yes, many of us said if we can just get our D to middle of the road (15th), we will be nearly unstoppable.

Well, of course, that was before Russ decided to be allergic to the MVP title, throwing 10 INTs. Before then, we had the #1 offense, Russ was cookin', MVP leader, throwing TDs like candy. Now, our offense has come down to earth...Ranked #6, which by no means is a problem...Still dangerous, just not the juggernaut they were in September/October.

Imagine the #1 Seahawks offense in September/October married with this #15 ranked D? Super. Bowl.

#6 offense with the #15 defense? I shall say we still have a great chance at making it to February. No NFC team scares me. None. We can beat ANY NFC team, period. Saints, Packers, Rams, Bucs, Cardinals...You name it. We can beat 'em.

But back to the point of this thread. It's a hell of an accomplishment to turn this around from what was a HISTORICALLY BAD defense to now 15th ranked. That's coaching, that's will power, that's talent, that's WANT TO.

Well, I share your excitement, but we haven't played any high powered offenses yet with this new Defense. If Seattle can bring that D this week against the Rams and completely dominate, then we will be turning a corner. Come playoff time there will be all really good offenses to face. Not so good teams still marching down the field against this D.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yeah, winning all the time and having a defense that is clearly improving really sucks.
So does going to the playoffs 9 of 11 years, 10 wins already and moving up to the 3 seed. Humbug...…..

Go Hawks

 

[LTH]

15th is a huge, HUGE deal. Yes, many of us said if we can just get our D to middle of the road (15th), we will be nearly unstoppable.

Well, of course, that was before Russ decided to be allergic to the MVP title, throwing 10 INTs. Before then, we had the #1 offense, Russ was cookin', MVP leader, throwing TDs like candy. Now, our offense has come down to earth...Ranked #6, which by no means is a problem...Still dangerous, just not the juggernaut they were in September/October.

Imagine the #1 Seahawks offense in September/October married with this #15 ranked D? Super. Bowl.

#6 offense with the #15 defense? I shall say we still have a great chance at making it to February. No NFC team scares me. None. We can beat ANY NFC team, period. Saints, Packers, Rams, Bucs, Cardinals...You name it. We can beat 'em.

But back to the point of this thread. It's a hell of an accomplishment to turn this around from what was a HISTORICALLY BAD defense to now 15th ranked. That's coaching, that's will power, that's talent, that's WANT TO.

Well, I share your excitement, but we haven't played any high powered offenses yet with this new Defense. If Seattle can bring that D this week against the Rams and completely dominate, then we will be turning a corner. Come playoff time there will be all really good offenses to face. Not so good teams still marching down the field against this D.

Yes the competition gets better in the playoffs.. no question about that... But you have to understand that scheme is the reason teams are marching down the field on the Hawks... The bend but don't break while the other team eats the clock on O is successful by a big percentage... I don't personally like it... It's one of my only gripes with Carroll as I feel the D should be aggressive 100% of the time throughout the game... but that's the way it is...

As far as this D is concerned, this D is much better than the stats say, being that the first half of the season the D wasn't very good and so the stats are skewed... they don't show the whole picture... this D is going to be somewhere in the middle of the pack if you look at the overall stats, but if you look at the stats from the last 6 or so games this D should be in the top 5-6 in the league... but the over all stats are not going to show that... so yeah like I been saying all year, as I've been stomped on ridiculed and labeled a blind optimist, this D is turned the corner they are one of the best D's in the league to this point in the season...


LTH


LTH

 

[Appyhawk]

The teams we've played recently are, in a lot of cases, the same teams others played earlier. It all evens out. Let's see how we stack up going into round 1 of the playoffs.

 

[DomeHawk]

The link in the OP points to info geared toward fantasy football. "If you are looking for fantasy points scored by defenses, we have them in order for you. Some teams are betting scoring in the fantasy department because they force more turnovers, while some teams like the Patriots play bend don’t break, which isn’t exactly fun for fantasy at times. If you're researching for your fantasy football draft, see our fantasy team defense rankings and all the Lineups.com Fantasy Football Rankings."

According to ESPN, they are still #26 ranked defense (total) -
https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/view/defense/table/passing/sort/netYardsPerGame/dir/asc

It is an improvement from being #32, for sure.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make when choosing one set of stats over another. But I don't see much value in either.

There is only one stat in the NFL that matters, and a fews years back, we were #1 at it 4 years in a row.

This year, not so much. After an abysmal start, we have jumped to 14th in Points Per Game Allowed. That is phenomenal!

And if anyone wants to say "yeah but, this almost happened, or that almost happened," Then I say, "We were without our starting DBs and Safeties for a few of those games. And, a lot of those points came when Seattle was playing bend but don't break." But for me, none of that really matters. Only the "W" and PPG allowed.

Passing yards and rushing yards are fun stats to look at, but they can be skewed by a team trying to play catch up, or trying to run the clock out. So those stats would need to be evaluated for each game, and the opponents strengths or weaknesses.

Personally, I love stats, but I love PPG the most,

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/v ... me/dir/asc

I'm with you Ivo! PPG most relevant.

 

[RolandDeschain]

The improvement has been SUBSTANTIAL. We don't have a great defense by any stretch of the imagination, but the improvement of it from the first half of the season is ginormous.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Absolutely a big improvement. Far from being a great defense, but they are playing a hell of a lot better. Get to middle of the pack and get more consistency on offense, and this team has a shot at the SuperbOwl.
I don't worry about the offense, they have the horses to get it done. And there's a HUGE difference between this year and last year, we have 3 solid RB's to eat up the clock and keep our defense more rested.

 

[JPatera76]

Big improvement, but man I feel Fantasy Football has ruined so much for me. LOL

 

[PateratoWilson]

15th is a huge, HUGE deal. Yes, many of us said if we can just get our D to middle of the road (15th), we will be nearly unstoppable.

Well, of course, that was before Russ decided to be allergic to the MVP title, throwing 10 INTs. Before then, we had the #1 offense, Russ was cookin', MVP leader, throwing TDs like candy. Now, our offense has come down to earth...Ranked #6, which by no means is a problem...Still dangerous, just not the juggernaut they were in September/October.

Imagine the #1 Seahawks offense in September/October married with this #15 ranked D? Super. Bowl.

#6 offense with the #15 defense? I shall say we still have a great chance at making it to February. No NFC team scares me. None. We can beat ANY NFC team, period. Saints, Packers, Rams, Bucs, Cardinals...You name it. We can beat 'em.

But back to the point of this thread. It's a hell of an accomplishment to turn this around from what was a HISTORICALLY BAD defense to now 15th ranked. That's coaching, that's will power, that's talent, that's WANT TO.

I think you and I mentioned this weeks ago that if they were in the top halfish of the league they’d be a tough out. I’m loving the progress. I also still worry about game day coaching and our approach. I’m ready for weeks 1-5 to return as we continue to get healthy.

 

[imnKOgnito]

Not sure how accurate this assessment really is as an indicative of our defense. We've played some really bad QBs recently. That being said, I've seen some improvement immediately when two things happened regardless of competition:

1. Flowers replaced by D.J Reed and Amadi

2. Carlos Dunlap. Dunlap alone has won us two games, he has completely changed the dynamic on our defense. Without him I think we still are near the bottom. My god was this a steal.

Yes and yes... I'd personally throw out the overall season rating and look at the defense after these adjustments. The defense is pretty good now. Not top 5, but definitely top 15, which should be good enough once the offense decides who they want to be for the final stretch.