The Defense in the 2nd half

[BASF]

You are correct, this is especially true when your two corners are DJ Read and Trey Flowers who can't cover good receivers man to man and need zone help.

With always hearing Pete supposedly being such a great defensive mind - especially in regard to DBs - how in the heck was this team allowed to get in the position where this is the current state of things...

Catering to our superstar future HoF QB who wants us to spend spend spend on his weapons and protection.

 

[OrangeGravy]

I know the corners suck, but Pete and KNJ needs to revisit this approach. Make the QB/WR earn it at least. The easy dump offs gave them all the control. Otherwise, get a starting caliber corner in the building ASAP.

[youtube]W1DSclpWEqI[/youtube]

Maybe spending all camp going against a QB that doesn't take that dump off stuff gives them a false sense of security

 

[Maelstrom787]

Defense put the team in a position to win despite being on the field for 47 minutes.

When it counted, they did their job.

The offense didn't unless the coverage was broken.

 

[TwistedHusky]

What is mindblowing is that Carroll is supposed to be some sort of great defensive coach and, as a former db, a kind of CB Whisperer.

How the H does he not know he has no corners?

And if he does know this, why not prioritize fixing it in the draft>?

How does he literally go through camp and then into the regular season thinking this will work?

It makes no sense. Literally.

 

[BASF]

What is mindblowing is that Carroll is supposed to be some sort of great defensive coach and, as a former db, a kind of CB Whisperer.

How the H does he not know he has no corners?

And if he does know this, why not prioritize fixing it in the draft>?

How does he literally go through camp and then into the regular season thinking this will work?

It makes no sense. Literally.

Literally drafted a CB in the draft to fix the problem. Unless you want him to reach for players in the earlier rounds, he did what you are asking for.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Drafting 1 player is not 'prioritizing'.

You prioritize by trading up to get a higher pick, not for upside, but for immediate ability to play. You then draft 1-2 other picks at the position that are more projects so you can either develop them over time to shore up the weakness, or as insurance since even 1st rd picks don't always stick.

You don't prioritize by picking a single 4th round pick at one of the most significant and valuable positions (CB) and just 'hope for the best'.

You CAN argue that because of Wilson's demand, and the utter lack of picks, the 1st priority was placating Wilson by getting him another WR (though he looks a little more like a Carroll pick than a Wilson)

 

[hawkfan68]

Drafting 1 player is not 'prioritizing'.

You prioritize by trading up to get a higher pick, not for upside, but for immediate ability to play. You then draft 1-2 other picks at the position that are more projects so you can either develop them over time to shore up the weakness, or as insurance since even 1st rd picks don't always stick.

You don't prioritize by picking a single 4th round pick at one of the most significant and valuable positions (CB) and just 'hope for the best'.

You CAN argue that because of Wilson's demand, and the utter lack of picks, the 1st priority was placating Wilson by getting him another WR (though he looks a little more like a Carroll pick than a Wilson)

Agreed. I think PC thinks he can replicate what he did in 2010-12 with adding LOB. Earl was the only first rounder. Kam, Sherm, Browner, Thurmond, and Maxwell were all drafted in 4th round or after (undrafted in Browner's case). Maybe he can, but thus far he's batting a big fat zero since LOB disbanded.

 

[Wartooth]

1st half defense gives up 16 points, offense scores 24.
2nd half defense gives up 17 points, offense scores 6.
No adjustment made at all by the coaching staff...
Failure all around!

 

[BASF]

Drafting 1 player is not 'prioritizing'.

You prioritize by trading up to get a higher pick, not for upside, but for immediate ability to play. You then draft 1-2 other picks at the position that are more projects so you can either develop them over time to shore up the weakness, or as insurance since even 1st rd picks don't always stick.

You don't prioritize by picking a single 4th round pick at one of the most significant and valuable positions (CB) and just 'hope for the best'.

You CAN argue that because of Wilson's demand, and the utter lack of picks, the 1st priority was placating Wilson by getting him another WR (though he looks a little more like a Carroll pick than a Wilson)

Or I can argue that we only had three picks and could find no trade partners to do any of what you are advocating.

Tre Brown was one of the most polished CB's in the draft. If he was 6'3" with a longer wingspan he probably would have went mid to late first round.

I believe that 68 has it right, that Pete believes he can coach the players he drafts. As I have pointed out in other threads the problem is the rule changes curtails the way we want our CBs to play.

 

[Chawker]

Our anchor will be back this week, how we missed Mone. Love the big guy. :2thumbs:

 

[TwistedHusky]

BASF,

I realize that with only 3 picks there is not much room to move or adjust.

What makes no sense is letting it get to this point if your entire strength is supposed to not only be defense, but great secondary play.

Did we just bet everything on Dunbar working out, even though we had no plan to keep him if he did? What if he got injured?

And if the cupboard was so bare, and the draft picks thinned to a trickle, then why let one of your at least serviceable (not great and ungodly expensive) CB go? Or was the cost too high and we just said, we have to sacrifice this year then?

(Because you are not winning anything without corners in a league where every advantage already goes to the QB and offense.)

It is just odd they would let it get to this point at all, usually you plan so this does not happen. We had to know getting a good STARTING caliber CB in FA was a pipe dream.

It really is baffling because he is both a GM and HC that hangs his hat on great secondary play. Letting it get this thin doesn't seem to fit him at all.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It really is baffling because he is both a GM and HC that hangs his hat on great secondary play. Letting it get this thin doesn't seem to fit him at all.

I think Pete thinks he can still develop great corners, thus why Flowers is still on the roster and still starting.

But I think it's clear since the LOB disbanded that he can't. Even when we used a high pick on a corner (Griffin), he wasn't good enough for a 2nd contract........and our two best defensive backs are safeties we had to give up draft picks for.

So thin? Err, I think this problem goes far deeper than depth. It's a systemic problem with the head coach who still thinks he can just accumulate cast offs and low round draft picks, and coach them up and develop them into quality starters.

Mark my words, our terrible DB's will be the Achilles Heel of this team this year. You can't win in the modern NFL without 2-3 very good DB's, and we have zero.

 

[chris98251]

What is mindblowing is that Carroll is supposed to be some sort of great defensive coach and, as a former db, a kind of CB Whisperer.

How the H does he not know he has no corners?

And if he does know this, why not prioritize fixing it in the draft>?

How does he literally go through camp and then into the regular season thinking this will work?

It makes no sense. Literally.

He can spot potential, he has a preferred technique also, but nothing has been the same in the secondary since Richard was promoted and then left. Our DB's no matter who was picked up looked serviceable when he was here, you look at where he has gone and that secondary gets instantly better also.

 

[hoxrox]

Obviously a premium has been placed at the safety position, since Polamalu, since ET, and now JA. So no capital or $$ to really get a quality corner.

And even if we did have capital and $$, quality corners don't grow on trees. That the Jags paid that much for Shaq tells us what what we need to know about the current corner market. That old man Sherman is getting interest from multiple teams tells us what we need to know about the current market.

So there is really no other choice but to try to develop the next starter.

This season's hopes are placed upon projects like Sidney Jones, Blessuan Austin and Tre Brown.

So we better hope the pass rush is back this week, and can help offset bad CB play until one of these projects pan out.

 

[BASF]

It really is baffling because he is both a GM and HC that hangs his hat on great secondary play. Letting it get this thin doesn't seem to fit him at all.

I think Pete thinks he can still develop great corners, thus why Flowers is still on the roster and still starting.

But I think it's clear since the LOB disbanded that he can't. Even when we used a high pick on a corner (Griffin), he wasn't good enough for a 2nd contract........and our two best defensive backs are safeties we had to give up draft picks for.

So thin? Err, I think this problem goes far deeper than depth. It's a systemic problem with the head coach who still thinks he can just accumulate cast offs and low round draft picks, and coach them up and develop them into quality starters.

Mark my words, our terrible DB's will be the Achilles Heel of this team this year. You can't win in the modern NFL without 2-3 very good DB's, and we have zero.

He was good enough for a second contract, but the ridiculous contract he was given by the Jags is way out of our price range. They knew going into the offseason that the contracts for corners were going to be high and that the choice needs to be made between safeties and corners. Considering our defensive style, safeties are more important to the scheme.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Considering our defensive style, safeties are more important to the scheme.

I think it was more we've made our Jamal Adams bed committing to him long term by leveraging two 1st rounders, that we had no choice but to overpay for his extension............rather than some safety vs corner philosophical scheme decision.

I think after watching the 2nd half of the Titans game, it's pretty clear that corners are just as important as safeties, in any scheme.

And it'll continue to be clear going forward as we watch other offenses force us to go into soft zone defenses because our corners can't cover man to man.

 

[BASF]

Considering our defensive style, safeties are more important to the scheme.

I think after watching the 2nd half of the Titans game, it's pretty clear that corners are just as important as safeties, in any scheme.

And it'll continue to be clear going forward as we watch other offenses force us to go into soft zone defenses because our corners can't cover man to man.

Agreed. The problem is I believe the front office does not.

 

[HawkOG70’]

They made a horrible adjustment and went to a deep zone in the second half and Henry gashed us on the ground. Pete got played

 

[hawk45]

They made a horrible adjustment and went to a deep zone in the second half and Henry gashed us on the ground. Pete got played

If we play less aggressive on the Henry explosive run, we win the game.

If we try to have Flowers and Reed play aggressive all game v Jones and Brown with a 15 point lead, we allow more explosives. Don't we? Do we not think Jones/Brown toast Flowers for six if he's not bailing downfield for most of the second half?

We made the correct adjustment. If we don't derp the Henry run and if the O makes a play with the game on the line, we win. If I'm the coach, that's right where I want my team to be.

 

[OrangeGravy]

BASF,

I realize that with only 3 picks there is not much room to move or adjust.

What makes no sense is letting it get to this point if your entire strength is supposed to not only be defense, but great secondary play.

Did we just bet everything on Dunbar working out, even though we had no plan to keep him if he did? What if he got injured?

And if the cupboard was so bare, and the draft picks thinned to a trickle, then why let one of your at least serviceable (not great and ungodly expensive) CB go? Or was the cost too high and we just said, we have to sacrifice this year then?

(Because you are not winning anything without corners in a league where every advantage already goes to the QB and offense.)

It is just odd they would let it get to this point at all, usually you plan so this does not happen. We had to know getting a good STARTING caliber CB in FA was a pipe dream.

It really is baffling because he is both a GM and HC that hangs his hat on great secondary play. Letting it get this thin doesn't seem to fit him at all.

The only way to keep defense as the strength of the team would've been to trade Russ when his first extension came due.

Have you looked at defense numbers so far this season? Much like last year early, they are all struggling. You can't effectively play defense in this league anymore. That ship has sailed.