The Rebuild begins

[SoulfishHawk]

Yep. Last year they consistently won those close games. Lucky wins are still wins. Couldn't care less how a win looks.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

No rebuild begins until a team gets out of denial.

The Seahawks are still in denial, hoping that the RW/PC/JS magic will surely endure, surely, we are only one game out of the playoffs. Make them, everyone keeps their jobs for the next year. Don't make them, that might accelerate things.

But we haven't tasted failure--real failure--for a decade now. That puts us in more denial mode than I'd say even the 49ers, who have seen in more recent time the QB/HC/coordinator churn that always comes with a rebuild. If Shan keeps crapping the bed, or if Lance does, it will be easier psychologically to get rid of both.

 

[Seymour]

Pete has the second best record in football over the last 10 days. We are spoiled by his greatness.

But:
The Shane Waldron experiment might be over.
Could be time for Russel Wilson to play on another team.
Carlos Dunlop might get cut one of these days.
As great as Bobby Wagner is, it might be time to hang them up at the end of the season.
Don't think we will be trading any high draft choices for the foreseeable future.
IT IS TIME FOR A REBUILD. And we all know it.

I loves me my BWagz. BUT - i don't remember the exact play - but he got FING OWNED by their running back. Had both hands on him in a bear hug and couldn't stop his forward progress. He tried. Just didn't have it. I thinks we've lost a step or two there.

I do and it was a TD run. Running back with full head of steam running to side of Wagner at a stand still. No way to stop that momentum if not a direct straight on hit. Not a sign to retire, that is ridiculous. :177692:

 

[toffee]

unfortunately the RW injury will be enough an excuse to give Pete another year.

That being said, I would love to get rid of Pete and KNJ.

Keep Russell and turn the offense completely over to Waldron

find some young hungry DC

What has Waldron done to justify the absolute trust? This man NEVER in his life worked as OC or HC, not in high school, not in college, not in professional sports of any kind. NEVER worked on any job more than 2 years, except at Rams, where he was stuck at passing game coordinator but never promoted to OC. Do we even more if McVay called plays or the OC or McVay?

 

[Seahawk_Dan]

unfortunately the RW injury will be enough an excuse to give Pete another year.

That being said, I would love to get rid of Pete and KNJ.

Keep Russell and turn the offense completely over to Waldron

find some young hungry DC

What has Waldron done to justify the absolute trust? This man NEVER in his life worked as OC or HC, not in high school, not in college, not in professional sports of any kind. NEVER worked on any job more than 2 years, except at Rams, where he was stuck at passing game coordinator but never promoted to OC. Do we even more if McVay called plays or the OC or McVay?

Waldron isn't calling plays here either, that much is obvious. "His" playstyle is eerily similar to Schottenheimer and Bevell, weird how that is.

Look I'm not saying that letting Waldron loose will turn him into McVay or McDaniels (now if his name was McWaldron we'd really be onto something) but it's clear he's being restrained and given orders to run Pete's offense. Pete back in Week 1 or 2 lowkey admitted that Waldron was "open to doing how we do it" or something along those lines. That's pretty telling.

 

[toffee]

Pete and John need to go. Results don’t change without this happening.

I don't know about John, I think he is talented but he is beating Petes drum looking for Pete players, remember he wanted Wilson in the 2nd round and Pete told him to wait till the next round. Tells you who is pulling the strings.

I would go a step further that it was Pete's idea not invest draft capital on QB after Wilson. Pete forego always compete when it comes to QB position. John has good eyes when it comes of QB, so John could be key post Wilson.

 

[balakoth]

Pete has the second best record in football over the last 10 days. We are spoiled by his greatness.

But:
The Shane Waldron experiment might be over.
Could be time for Russel Wilson to play on another team.
Carlos Dunlop might get cut one of these days.
As great as Bobby Wagner is, it might be time to hang them up at the end of the season.
Don't think we will be trading any high draft choices for the foreseeable future.
IT IS TIME FOR A REBUILD. And we all know it.

I loves me my BWagz. BUT - i don't remember the exact play - but he got FING OWNED by their running back. Had both hands on him in a bear hug and couldn't stop his forward progress. He tried. Just didn't have it. I thinks we've lost a step or two there.

At the end of the game? After they had been on the field for 35 minutes vs our 17? You aren't serious are you?

 

[A-Dog]

Pete, John, and Wilson aside:

After this year:

- Starting Left Tackle (D. Brown) is a free agent (and very old, injured, and deteriorating quickly)
- Starting Right Tackle (B. Shell) is a free agent (and mediocre)
- Backup Left Tackle/Right Tackle (J. Jones) is a free agent (and mediocre to poor)
- Starting Center (E. Pocic) is a free agent (and mediocre to poor)
- Backup Center (K. Fuller) is a restricted free agent (and poor)

- Starting RB (C Carson) is injured and could be a cap casualty
- Backup RB (A. Collins) is a free agent
- Third string RB (R. Penny) is a free agent and always injured

- Starting TE (G. Everett) is a free agent
- Backup TE (W. Dissly) is a free agent

And that's just the offense.

The defense is much more promising in terms of young talent, but these guys are all unrestricted free agents:
- Quandre Diggs (must re-sign IMO)
- DJ Reed (must re-sign IMO)
- Rasheem Green (must re-sign IMO)
- Al Woods
- Robert Nkemdiche
- Sydney Jones

Not to mention D.K., Bobby, Poona, Dunlap, will be going into the final years of their contracts (Bobby will be 33 and Dunlap 35).

That's a lot of guys at key positions who need to be re-signed or replaced. Where's the cap room going to come from? What about the draft picks?

Time to start thinking about trading some expensive assets for picks - I'm talking guys like D.K. and Bobby, if not Russ.

 

[John63]

unfortunately the RW injury will be enough an excuse to give Pete another year.

That being said, I would love to get rid of Pete and KNJ.

Keep Russell and turn the offense completely over to Waldron

find some young hungry DC

What has Waldron done to justify the absolute trust? This man NEVER in his life worked as OC or HC, not in high school, not in college, not in professional sports of any kind. NEVER worked on any job more than 2 years, except at Rams, where he was stuck at passing game coordinator but never promoted to OC. Do we even more if McVay called plays or the OC or McVay?

Waldron isn't calling plays here either, that much is obvious. "His" playstyle is eerily similar to Schottenheimer and Bevell, weird how that is.

Look I'm not saying that letting Waldron loose will turn him into McVay or McDaniels (now if his name was McWaldron we'd really be onto something) but it's clear he's being restrained and given orders to run Pete's offense. Pete back in Week 1 or 2 lowkey admitted that Waldron was "open to doing how we do it" or something along those lines. That's pretty telling.

This exactly PC is the biggest issue

 

[ZagHawk]

unfortunately the RW injury will be enough an excuse to give Pete another year.

That being said, I would love to get rid of Pete and KNJ.

Keep Russell and turn the offense completely over to Waldron

find some young hungry DC

What has Waldron done to justify the absolute trust? This man NEVER in his life worked as OC or HC, not in high school, not in college, not in professional sports of any kind. NEVER worked on any job more than 2 years, except at Rams, where he was stuck at passing game coordinator but never promoted to OC. Do we even more if McVay called plays or the OC or McVay?

Waldron isn't calling plays here either, that much is obvious. "His" playstyle is eerily similar to Schottenheimer and Bevell, weird how that is.

- Exactly fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice...shame on.....shame on...a fooled man can't get fooled again..


and to add to the quote above

- Fool me three times....i give up.

 

[justafan]

unfortunately the RW injury will be enough an excuse to give Pete another year.

That being said, I would love to get rid of Pete and KNJ.

Keep Russell and turn the offense completely over to Waldron

find some young hungry DC

What has Waldron done to justify the absolute trust? This man NEVER in his life worked as OC or HC, not in high school, not in college, not in professional sports of any kind. NEVER worked on any job more than 2 years, except at Rams, where he was stuck at passing game coordinator but never promoted to OC. Do we even more if McVay called plays or the OC or McVay?

Waldron isn't calling plays here either, that much is obvious. "His" playstyle is eerily similar to Schottenheimer and Bevell, weird how that is.

- Exactly fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice...shame on.....shame on...a fooled man can't get fooled again..


and to add to the quote above

- Fool me three times....i give up.

Ive never been one to blame the playcalling but this is Waldrons offense. He just isnt ready for playcalling in the NFL. Maybe in a few years he will be but I dont want him learning on this team. It was a horrible hire and a bad fit here. I want him gone yesterday.

This is nothing like any offense Pete has had since he has been here. Im disappointed they gave up on the running game. That has been a huge part of our toughness and identity.

 

[ZagHawk]

What has Waldron done to justify the absolute trust? This man NEVER in his life worked as OC or HC, not in high school, not in college, not in professional sports of any kind. NEVER worked on any job more than 2 years, except at Rams, where he was stuck at passing game coordinator but never promoted to OC. Do we even more if McVay called plays or the OC or McVay?

Waldron isn't calling plays here either, that much is obvious. "His" playstyle is eerily similar to Schottenheimer and Bevell, weird how that is.

- Exactly fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice...shame on.....shame on...a fooled man can't get fooled again..


and to add to the quote above

- Fool me three times....i give up.

Ive never been one to blame the playcalling but this is Waldrons offense. He just isnt ready for playcalling in the NFL. Maybe in a few years he will be but I dont want him learning on this team. It was a horrible hire and a bad fit here. I want him gone yesterday.

This is nothing like any offense Pete has had since he has been here. Im disappointed they gave up on the running game. That has been a huge part of our toughness and identity.

To be honest it looks a lot like Pete offenses right before he goes back into full run mode. It's almost like he sets it up to prove his point that they gotta run the ball to be effective only.

 

[toffee]

What has Waldron done to justify the absolute trust? This man NEVER in his life worked as OC or HC, not in high school, not in college, not in professional sports of any kind. NEVER worked on any job more than 2 years, except at Rams, where he was stuck at passing game coordinator but never promoted to OC. Do we even more if McVay called plays or the OC or McVay?

Waldron isn't calling plays here either, that much is obvious. "His" playstyle is eerily similar to Schottenheimer and Bevell, weird how that is.

- Exactly fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice...shame on.....shame on...a fooled man can't get fooled again..


and to add to the quote above

- Fool me three times....i give up.

Ive never been one to blame the playcalling but this is Waldrons offense. He just isnt ready for playcalling in the NFL. Maybe in a few years he will be but I dont want him learning on this team. It was a horrible hire and a bad fit here. I want him gone yesterday.

This is nothing like any offense Pete has had since he has been here. Im disappointed they gave up on the running game. That has been a huge part of our toughness and identity.

If I were Jody, I would summon Ole Pete and demand to know what made him hired Waldron. I meant which part of Waldrom's resume remotely hinted that he could be entrusted to design an offense, game plan, or call plays. If ole Pete's couldn't justify his hire, it's reason enough to ask him to step down.

 

[Appyhawk]

Had we played well start to this point we might still sport the same record. I doubt it, but it's possible. So it isn't necessarily our record that bothers me most. What bothers me most is what we did to get our record. We are not playing good ball. There is no one on this team that deserves consideration as an all pro this year. We have imploded into apathy and denial of fact. We're being asked to bet on a horse to win that is still having trouble getting out of the gate. I love my team but no way I'm betting on them to take on the toughest last half schedule in the league and come out of that with a prize. The sooner we address our weaknesses the sooner we can remedy them and get back on track.

 

[HawkOG70’]

Too late....they gave two first round picks and a third.....we're screwed for the next 5 years min.

WTF? They get a first rounder in 23'. Seek help man

 

[HawkOG70’]

No rebuild begins until a team gets out of denial.

The Seahawks are still in denial, hoping that the RW/PC/JS magic will surely endure, surely, we are only one game out of the playoffs. Make them, everyone keeps their jobs for the next year. Don't make them, that might accelerate things.

But we haven't tasted failure--real failure--for a decade now. That puts us in more denial mode than I'd say even the 49ers, who have seen in more recent time the QB/HC/coordinator churn that always comes with a rebuild. If Shan keeps crapping the bed, or if Lance does, it will be easier psychologically to get rid of both.

Does 'we need Wilson out now sound like denial to you?"
Denial was 2017 guy we are well beyond that and have moved onto "We're screwed unless we deal Russ" mode

 

[DarkVictory23]

Ive never been one to blame the playcalling but this is Waldrons offense. He just isnt ready for playcalling in the NFL. Maybe in a few years he will be but I dont want him learning on this team. It was a horrible hire and a bad fit here. I want him gone yesterday.

This is nothing like any offense Pete has had since he has been here. Im disappointed they gave up on the running game. That has been a huge part of our toughness and identity.

This is definitely similar to Pete's offensive style that we've had for every other year with just a handful of tweaks and the tweaks that have stood out (lining up under center more) are IMPROVEMENTS.

The fact is, we still give up on 3rd and longer than 6 no matter where we are on the field. You think Shane Waldron just magically decided he likes to run draw play up the middle in that situation every time like every other Seahawk team of Pete's time here? Or is it more likely that this is what Pete insists every OC do?

Pete has a philosophy. I don't completely disagree with his philosophy but the way he shackles every OC we've had in how they implement it is the problem.


Now, our offensive program isn't just hurt by Pete. Russ is also far too willing to give up our rhythm in order to take a homerun shot. This is fine if he's not doing it on coverage that's got two safeties sitting high on him but as we saw in the last game, he'll do it in that situation as well. Sometimes the defense is disguising it and you can give him the benefit of the doubt but sometimes it's clear as day what kind of coverage he's facing and he just chucks it anyway.

The OC can't fix that. He has to let Tyler or DK or somebody run the homerun route in order to stretch the defense. That's what clears up the underneath routes. Russ has to have the patience to NOT throw it to that guy in that situation but too many times this year (and last) he's displayed a terrible lack of patience in that regard.

If Pete and Russ want to throw away our offensive rhythm because they are too scared (Pete) or too desperate to make it onto SportsCenter's top 10 plays (Russ), there is nothing Shane Waldron can do about that.

 

[justafan]

"The fact is, we still give up on 3rd and longer than 6 no matter where we are on the field. You think Shane Waldron just magically decided he likes to run draw play up the middle in that situation every time like every other Seahawk team of Pete's time here? Or is it more likely that this is what Pete insists every OC do?"

Thats just not true. There isnt anything else to say about that statement.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I don't think this team needs a full rebuild. We're just not performing up to our talent level at the moment. Carroll has been trying to bang a square shaped peg into a round hole on defense. It took him weeks to move on from a struggling Flowers and transition from running the base defense most of the time. We were running the base defense more than any other team in the NFL, in a pass happy league that is a recipe for disaster. Our Cover 3 system was also getting exploited pretty hard. Carroll adjusted, though he did it too little too late. I don't think we had the proper players to run Carroll's system either. That cost us a few games.

On offense we're not too great either despite a talented QB and good TE/WR unit. Even before Wilson got injured our second half offense was very bad. Some of that was on Wilson himself, a lot of that was on our OC and probably some of it on Pete. I've seen some really funky play calling from our offense that just doesn't make a lot of sense. We have the talent, we just can't execute.

The areas where we are going to need to retool are on the offensive line. Jackson and Lewis need to go back to their natural positions. We need to replace Procic and Brown, and we can continue rolling with Shell at RT. I think we need to revamp our RB position. Carson, and Penny just can't stay healthy and at this point we should move on. Collins is a good place holder, but ideally we have someone else too.

On defense we're a little rough around the edges. Ideally we could upgrade corner, Brown is playing great but i'd like to upgrade the other spot. Our LB play has been hot and cold this year. Wagner is still playing good, but not up to his usual high standards. Brooks play has been all over the place, he ranges from extremely good to a liability depending on the game. We could still roll with Brooks for awhile though, he's shown enough to be given some more opportunities. Our DT unit has also been hot and cold. I think those guys need some bolstering but not a full on rebuild.

Retooling is more the word we're looking for here. The big issue at hand though is why we're at this record. It is a result of bad choices and bad coaching on Carroll's part. This 3-6 is directly related to stupid decisions he made, that is the frustrating part.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

The rebuild will begin when JA wakes up and realizes that she needs to protect her Billion(s) of dollars worth of investment.

And, the Rebuild - "will be televised"