Watson out for year

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Cyrus12

Cyrus12

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This trade makes the Dangerwich trade for the Broncos look good..Just another sad chapter for the Browns. Not sure how they get out of this one. Epic defense being wasted.
 

bmorepunk

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If the Broncos cut Wilson after June 1st, they can spread his $85 million dead cap across two seasons. It sucks but is doable. They could also leave him on the roster next year (his cap hit is only $35 million versus the $55 million the year after that) and do the cut/spread at about $25 million a year dead cap.

The Browns could cut Watson in the offseason, but they'd have to spread $200 million over two seasons (it's $135 million if they wait another season). That contract they gave him is insane. I feel zero sympathy for Browns ownership/management. Dude is a bad human being who hurts others and then they trade three first rounders for him. Then give him a quarter billion guaranteed.

This really sucks for Browns fans. He's a scumbag, can't stay on the field, and is going to cost them $64 million in cap hits the next three seasons.
 

Lagartixa

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If the Broncos cut Wilson after June 1st, they can spread his $85 million dead cap across two seasons. It sucks but is doable. They could also leave him on the roster next year (his cap hit is only $35 million versus the $55 million the year after that) and do the cut/spread at about $25 million a year dead cap.

The Browns could cut Watson in the offseason, but they'd have to spread $200 million over two seasons (it's $135 million if they wait another season). That contract they gave him is insane. I feel zero sympathy for Browns ownership/management. Dude is a bad human being who hurts others and then they trade three first rounders for him. Then give him a quarter billion guaranteed.

This really sucks for Browns fans. He's a scumbag, can't stay on the field, and is going to cost them $64 million in cap hits the next three seasons.
[Boldface and color emphasis is mine]

You've touched on something about which I'm curious. What I'm about to ask may seem like a question with an obvious answer, but if you've looked at the NFL rules (and their selective enforcement) on what constitutes a catch, what constitutes pass interference, and what constitutes illegal contact, you may agree with me that many NFL-related questions that seem like they should have obvious answers just don't.

Here's my question: if a player is designated as a post-June 1 cut, is he considered to be on the team's roster until June 1?

The reason I'm asking is that if the answer is "yes," as it's clear to me it ought to be (but again, NFL), then the Broncos would screw themselves hard by designating Wilson as a post-June 1 cut. The reason is that Wilson's contract specifies that if he's on the roster on the fifth day of the 2024 league year (and I believe that's St. Patrick's Day of 2024), then Wilson's 2025 salary of $37M, currently not guaranteed, becomes fully guaranteed. So for the right to spread the cap hits between two seasons, the Broncos would cost themselves another $37M of cash and cap hits. So instead of $85M in dead cap, split as $35.4M in 2024 and $49.6M in 2025, it would become $122M of dead money, split as $35.4M in 2024 and $86.6M in 2025.

If designating Wilson as a post-June 1 cut means he's considered to be on the roster until June 1, then I don't think the Broncos will wait. I think they'll cut him before the fifth day of the 2024 league year and start moving on from the worst trade and the worst contract in the team's history (which I have enjoyed greatly).
 

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What’s the over or under hes gonna visit massage parlors again now that his season is over? Are there any bets in Las Vegas yet?
 

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Cyrus12

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Although different circumstances Robert Kraft's stories at the masseuse parlor sure disappeared rather quickly....hes a hero again.
 

bmorepunk

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[Boldface and color emphasis is mine]

You've touched on something about which I'm curious. What I'm about to ask may seem like a question with an obvious answer, but if you've looked at the NFL rules (and their selective enforcement) on what constitutes a catch, what constitutes pass interference, and what constitutes illegal contact, you may agree with me that many NFL-related questions that seem like they should have obvious answers just don't.

Here's my question: if a player is designated as a post-June 1 cut, is he considered to be on the team's roster until June 1?

The reason I'm asking is that if the answer is "yes," as it's clear to me it ought to be (but again, NFL), then the Broncos would screw themselves hard by designating Wilson as a post-June 1 cut. The reason is that Wilson's contract specifies that if he's on the roster on the fifth day of the 2024 league year (and I believe that's St. Patrick's Day of 2024), then Wilson's 2025 salary of $37M, currently not guaranteed, becomes fully guaranteed. So for the right to spread the cap hits between two seasons, the Broncos would cost themselves another $37M of cash and cap hits. So instead of $85M in dead cap, split as $35.4M in 2024 and $49.6M in 2025, it would become $122M of dead money, split as $35.4M in 2024 and $86.6M in 2025.

If designating Wilson as a post-June 1 cut means he's considered to be on the roster until June 1, then I don't think the Broncos will wait. I think they'll cut him before the fifth day of the 2024 league year and start moving on from the worst trade and the worst contract in the team's history (which I have enjoyed greatly).

From PFF:
The best outcome for Denver at this point is likely a post-June 1 release in the first few days of the 2024 league year. Wilson is owed a $17 million salary and has a $22 million option bonus in 2024, which the team can choose to exercise and spread out over the salary cap or decline and take that full hit as a $39 million salary.


Here are the full salary cap implications of a post-June 1 release on the first day of the 2024 league year, and we’ll say they do ultimately choose to let the $22 million option bonus get spread out so that one-fifth ($4.4 million) is accounted for in 2024 and four-fifths ($17.6 million) is accounted for in 2025:


Salary Cap Implications of a Post-June 1 Release​


  • Pay Wilson $39 million for 2024
  • $35.4 million 2024 dead cap hit
  • $49.6 million 2025 dead cap hit

I think you may be conflating money actually owed and dead cap numbers. If you have something that shows differently, please link it.
 

Lagartixa

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From PFF:


I think you may be conflating money actually owed and dead cap numbers. If you have something that shows differently, please link it.

No, it's that the $37M salary for 2025 is not yet guaranteed at all, but if Wilson is on some team's roster on the fifth day of the league year, the 2025 salary becomes fully guaranteed. So if he's on the roster on St. Patrick's day, the Broncos actually owe him more money (and then, as a result, the dead cap is larger if they cut him after that).

My question was whether they can designate him as a post-June 1 release before the fifth day of the league year and have him not considered as being on the roster when the fifth day of the league year (St. Patrick's Day) comes around, even though his official release is after June 1. PFF seems to think the Broncos can do that.

The other interesting issue at this point is that given how old Wilson is and how many sacks he takes, there's a risk of him getting injured and the Broncos not being able to release him (and then being on the hook for the additional $37M for 2025). So the Broncos have some incentive to wrap Wilson in bubble wrap, put the wrapped package in a big padded box, fill the box the rest of the way with styrofoam "peanuts," and put the box on the bench.
 

Lagartixa

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OK, that's pretty funny. He's officially released after June 1, but he's somehow not on the roster on March 17. So NFL.

And then Wilson's contract ends up being for $124M for two seasons, one as a bottom-five starting QB in the league, and now one in which he'll end up in the third or fourth quartile (sixth or seventh octile) of starting-QB value. Russellettes can cherry-pick some of the rate stats in which he's ranked highly, like completion percentage, (low) interception percentage, TD percentage, and passer rating (while of course ignoring or putting down the rate stats that make a lot more sense in terms of jibing with how much Wilson is helping his team actually win games, like QBR, DVOA, ANY/A, and sack percentage) to try to tell themselves Wilson is actually a good QB, but the fact remains that Payton's version of Russball is a lot like Carroll's version, but lower-volume, and that's because Payton has recognized how correct Carroll's way of handling Wilson was.

Even at high percentages, Wilson is currently 23rd in pass attempts per game and passing yards per game, and the Broncos are 29th in the league in passing yards. The discrepancy between those rankings is because Wilson is so far down there that some of the teams that have used multiple quarterbacks have outperformed the Broncos' passing attack. And Payton's risk-mitigation strategy is not just fewer passes. It's shorter ones too. Wilson is currently 29th in both intended air yards per passing attempt and actual air yards on completions.

Russellettes use terms like "shackled" and "handcuffed" to describe what Carroll did to Wilson when Wilson was a Seahawk. By that standard, Payton has straightjacketed Wilson, wrapped him in chains, and hung him upside down in a cell with a bricked-over door in an island prison that doesn't appear on any maps and is surrounded by treacherous, non-navigable ocean filled with naval mines.

$62M a season for one season of one of the bottom three starting quarterbacks in the league and one season of a low-volume, low-risk game manager in an offense a second-tier rookie could run. Yikes. I probably wouldn't find it quite as hilarious if I hadn't disliked the Broncos for decades. If the Vikings, for example, had done it, I'd feel bad for them rather than laughing my ass off at them like I am with the Broncos.
And as we've said earlier, with just $39M of the $124M fully guaranteed at signing having appeared on the Broncos' salary-cap accounting, there's a whopping $85M of dead cap split as $35.4M in 2024 and (hahahaha) $49.6M in 2025. They'll be using cap space equivalent to that used on top-quality QBs two seasons after they've gotten Wilson's utter mediocrity off their roster. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys. Wait. Strike that. This could only be better if The Teeth had been responsible for trading for Wilson and for giving Wilson his team-wrecking contract extension.

Well, at least the Russellettes can point to the Browns' contract for Watson and correctly say that Wilson's hasn't been the absolute worst so far. But what's scary is that "so far." As awful as Watson's contract has been so far, the Browns are stuck with him for at least another season or two, so there's still a nonzero chance he comes back and has a couple of decent seasons and ends up producing about the same value per dollar or better on his contract as Wilson. It's not likely (Watson sucked at a level between Wilson's 2022 and 2023 - but closer to Wilson's 2022 - in his limited time on the field this season, he's not getting younger, and there's about 85% more fully guaranteed money in Watson's contract than in Wilson's), but it could happen. Let's say it's about as likely as Wilson ever making even second-team All-Pro for a second time in his career.
 

Lagartixa

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My question was whether they can designate him as a post-June 1 release before the fifth day of the league year and have him not considered as being on the roster when the fifth day of the league year (St. Patrick's Day) comes around, even though his official release is after June 1. PFF seems to think the Broncos can do that.
So does the Denver sports media.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat? Why would the Denver sports media be talking about getting out from under the Wilson contract in 2024 at $62M per season for two seasons, rather than letting the full contract play out to get the APY down to $49M? The Russellettes assure us all that Wilson is playing really well this season. You'd think the Denver sports media would be happy that the Broncos have their championship QB!
 

CallMeADawg

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Cleveland hosting QB tryouts. Joe Flacco is reported in attendance. RG3 openly asked them to sign him. Could be interesting.
 

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Quite simply put. Russell "bat mite" Wilson is cooked . He's seen his best ball at least 4 seasons ago. He wasn't the answer. Now he's a short ,fat below average QB who can't see routes and can't run from pass rushers who are as fast as him. His teammates hate him and I think Payton hates him. The news is out on Mr unlimited, he's a phoney fake poser . As phoney as one of his foundations.

Enjoy Denver 🤣
 

ccla

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OK, that's pretty funny. He's officially released after June 1, but he's somehow not on the roster on March 17. So NFL.

And then Wilson's contract ends up being for $124M for two seasons, one as a bottom-five starting QB in the league, and now one in which he'll end up in the third or fourth quartile (sixth or seventh octile) of starting-QB value. Russellettes can cherry-pick some of the rate stats in which he's ranked highly, like completion percentage, (low) interception percentage, TD percentage, and passer rating (while of course ignoring or putting down the rate stats that make a lot more sense in terms of jibing with how much Wilson is helping his team actually win games, like QBR, DVOA, ANY/A, and sack percentage) to try to tell themselves Wilson is actually a good QB, but the fact remains that Payton's version of Russball is a lot like Carroll's version, but lower-volume, and that's because Payton has recognized how correct Carroll's way of handling Wilson was.

Even at high percentages, Wilson is currently 23rd in pass attempts per game and passing yards per game, and the Broncos are 29th in the league in passing yards. The discrepancy between those rankings is because Wilson is so far down there that some of the teams that have used multiple quarterbacks have outperformed the Broncos' passing attack. And Payton's risk-mitigation strategy is not just fewer passes. It's shorter ones too. Wilson is currently 29th in both intended air yards per passing attempt and actual air yards on completions.

Russellettes use terms like "shackled" and "handcuffed" to describe what Carroll did to Wilson when Wilson was a Seahawk. By that standard, Payton has straightjacketed Wilson, wrapped him in chains, and hung him upside down in a cell with a bricked-over door in an island prison that doesn't appear on any maps and is surrounded by treacherous, non-navigable ocean filled with naval mines.

$62M a season for one season of one of the bottom three starting quarterbacks in the league and one season of a low-volume, low-risk game manager in an offense a second-tier rookie could run. Yikes. I probably wouldn't find it quite as hilarious if I hadn't disliked the Broncos for decades. If the Vikings, for example, had done it, I'd feel bad for them rather than laughing my ass off at them like I am with the Broncos.
And as we've said earlier, with just $39M of the $124M fully guaranteed at signing having appeared on the Broncos' salary-cap accounting, there's a whopping $85M of dead cap split as $35.4M in 2024 and (hahahaha) $49.6M in 2025. They'll be using cap space equivalent to that used on top-quality QBs two seasons after they've gotten Wilson's utter mediocrity off their roster. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys. Wait. Strike that. This could only be better if The Teeth had been responsible for trading for Wilson and for giving Wilson his team-wrecking contract extension.

Well, at least the Russellettes can point to the Browns' contract for Watson and correctly say that Wilson's hasn't been the absolute worst so far. But what's scary is that "so far." As awful as Watson's contract has been so far, the Browns are stuck with him for at least another season or two, so there's still a nonzero chance he comes back and has a couple of decent seasons and ends up producing about the same value per dollar or better on his contract as Wilson. It's not likely (Watson sucked at a level between Wilson's 2022 and 2023 - but closer to Wilson's 2022 - in his limited time on the field this season, he's not getting younger, and there's about 85% more fully guaranteed money in Watson's contract than in Wilson's), but it could happen. Let's say it's about as likely as Wilson ever making even second-team All-Pro for a second time in his career.
🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
 
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