GrizzBEARS":3llr8rsc said:Wilson is done with Seattle. I think you guys should just trade him to the Bears already and be done with it.
:lol: :lol:
Throwdown":o231kf1j said:John63":o231kf1j said:hawks85":o231kf1j said:Alright, what the hell is going on here? I still don't know how and why this whole thing has gone into a tailspin. Why is Wilson even mad? Because of a TB O-line performance at the SB, and Brady not getting hit, is this the reason why Wilson is having a fit, I don't know. This whole thing could have been settled behind closed doors. Why did Wilson throw the entire O-line etc...under the bus and made a media spectacle out of this. Has Wilson even requested a trade? Sorry, I am just confused with all this.
okay
1 he did not throw the oline under the bus
2. he tried to handle it behind closed doors and was dismissed
3. he has not asked for a trade and in fact said he wants to stay in Seattle
these are the facts we know everything else is either made up, from an unnamed source or conjecture
Then what was the point of presenting a list?
HawkinNY":3e6mnyjh said:So we know for a fact he tried to handle it behind closed doors? Also the team got rid of all the Alpha dogs to help poor Russ feel better. Even M Rob said it. Years ago the LOB was saying it. And yes he did throw the online under the bus. He said it’s their fault he gets hit so much.John63":3e6mnyjh said:hawks85":3e6mnyjh said:Alright, what the hell is going on here? I still don't know how and why this whole thing has gone into a tailspin. Why is Wilson even mad? Because of a TB O-line performance at the SB, and Brady not getting hit, is this the reason why Wilson is having a fit, I don't know. This whole thing could have been settled behind closed doors. Why did Wilson throw the entire O-line etc...under the bus and made a media spectacle out of this. Has Wilson even requested a trade? Sorry, I am just confused with all this.
okay
1 he did not throw the oline under the bus
2. he tried to handle it behind closed doors and was dismissed
3. he has not asked for a trade and in fact said he wants to stay in Seattle
these are the facts we know everything else is either made up, from an unnamed source or conjecture
I think Russ will be hit the same no matter where he goes. Unless he gets rid of the ball in 1 second like Brady. But he can’t see the field like Brady can.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So, you’re saying Carroll’s system plans for his QBs to get sacked, a lot??John63":2bt6oni3 said:HawkinNY":2bt6oni3 said:So we know for a fact he tried to handle it behind closed doors? Also the team got rid of all the Alpha dogs to help poor Russ feel better. Even M Rob said it. Years ago the LOB was saying it. And yes he did throw the online under the bus. He said it’s their fault he gets hit so much.John63":2bt6oni3 said:hawks85":2bt6oni3 said:Alright, what the hell is going on here? I still don't know how and why this whole thing has gone into a tailspin. Why is Wilson even mad? Because of a TB O-line performance at the SB, and Brady not getting hit, is this the reason why Wilson is having a fit, I don't know. This whole thing could have been settled behind closed doors. Why did Wilson throw the entire O-line etc...under the bus and made a media spectacle out of this. Has Wilson even requested a trade? Sorry, I am just confused with all this.
okay
1 he did not throw the oline under the bus
2. he tried to handle it behind closed doors and was dismissed
3. he has not asked for a trade and in fact said he wants to stay in Seattle
these are the facts we know everything else is either made up, from an unnamed source or conjecture
I think Russ will be hit the same no matter where he goes. Unless he gets rid of the ball in 1 second like Brady. But he can’t see the field like Brady can.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He said he is tried of getting hit so much, and we need to get better, and he needs to get better at no point did he say oline, Scheme has just as much to do with it as anything
What were the LOB saying? last I checked it was just Sherman who b!@ch about everyone but the LOB. Mrod needs to get his clicks and views so mean s nothing, DK supported What Wilson said, Brown has supported it. Also as to LOD last I Checked every one of them but Chancellor also called out PC. Lynch gave PC the finger, as did Baldwin as did others.
Al;so and again every QB under PC has been amongst the most sacked this is a scheme thing
TheLegendOfBoom":3rxm0orv said:So, you’re saying Carroll’s system plans for his QBs to get sacked, a lot??John63":3rxm0orv said:HawkinNY":3rxm0orv said:So we know for a fact he tried to handle it behind closed doors? Also the team got rid of all the Alpha dogs to help poor Russ feel better. Even M Rob said it. Years ago the LOB was saying it. And yes he did throw the online under the bus. He said it’s their fault he gets hit so much.John63":3rxm0orv said:okay
1 he did not throw the oline under the bus
2. he tried to handle it behind closed doors and was dismissed
3. he has not asked for a trade and in fact said he wants to stay in Seattle
these are the facts we know everything else is either made up, from an unnamed source or conjecture
I think Russ will be hit the same no matter where he goes. Unless he gets rid of the ball in 1 second like Brady. But he can’t see the field like Brady can.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He said he is tried of getting hit so much, and we need to get better, and he needs to get better at no point did he say oline, Scheme has just as much to do with it as anything
What were the LOB saying? last I checked it was just Sherman who b!@ch about everyone but the LOB. Mrod needs to get his clicks and views so mean s nothing, DK supported What Wilson said, Brown has supported it. Also as to LOD last I Checked every one of them but Chancellor also called out PC. Lynch gave PC the finger, as did Baldwin as did others.
Al;so and again every QB under PC has been amongst the most sacked this is a scheme thing
Seems rather counter productive towards the goal.
Throwdown":39vzjxr9 said:John63":39vzjxr9 said:hawks85":39vzjxr9 said:Alright, what the hell is going on here? I still don't know how and why this whole thing has gone into a tailspin. Why is Wilson even mad? Because of a TB O-line performance at the SB, and Brady not getting hit, is this the reason why Wilson is having a fit, I don't know. This whole thing could have been settled behind closed doors. Why did Wilson throw the entire O-line etc...under the bus and made a media spectacle out of this. Has Wilson even requested a trade? Sorry, I am just confused with all this.
okay
1 he did not throw the oline under the bus
2. he tried to handle it behind closed doors and was dismissed
3. he has not asked for a trade and in fact said he wants to stay in Seattle
these are the facts we know everything else is either made up, from an unnamed source or conjecture
Then what was the point of presenting a list?
Excellent post. That last paragraph is spot on in my opinion and I completely agree that is what Russ is. Russ obviously disagrees. I don't think he's heading for the success that he thinks he is. To my recollection, he's only had one really complete season cover to cover and that was the year he accounted for something like 85% of our offense. Every other year he's either started well and finished poorly or vice versa and he hasn't been that guy in the playoffs yet. He's had solid games in the early years not making mistakes, but since then, he's bad average to poor with fleeting moments like the GB NFC champ game finish. I'm perfectly fine with him moving on. I think Pete's desired use of him is the perfect recipe for Russ. I can fully understand him wanting to prove he's the man, I just don't think he is on that level. I'm ready for a reboot. I'm looking forward to it.Vetamur":1mb7cxfy said:Honestly, no one knows and we are all just reading between the lines..and its almost a litmus test of what people want to believe.
The "behind closed doors" example is maybe the prime one. It does seem to be true at some point Russ tried to give "input" and was turned down. Some people take that to mean he calmly presented great ideas and was brushed off rudely. We dont know anything about the meeting. We dont know if Russ presented reasonable ideas, or if he looked back at our game vs Buffalo and said "Lets purely throw the ball the whole game". We dont know. And we dont know if he was told "look, thats an idea..but thats too much too implement in the short week so we just cant do it" or if he was told "thats not your place Russ!" We dont know if he actually "stormed out" or said calmly "well, I guess Im not needed here and Id rather not say something I will regret so..Im out".
For those who are purely Wilson partisans , there is a lot of twisting of whats going on.. "he didnt throw the O line under the bus". Well..not by name. But, yes, he did. "He hasnt asked for a trade".. well, no. He wont. But we arent even at the point we can really pretend thats true. Hes had his camp saying basically, he wont ask for a trade but his future lies elsewhere. It means something when you give the list of names youll go to, to the media. Because thats the other part of this. Theres literally not one tiny bit of a reason any of this had to be given to the media. It doesnt help his position, it actually hurts it. Pete Carroll doesnt care what someone at 710am KIRO says or what the the Seattle Times says. Hes not a young coach fighting for his life and public opinion. Hes long shown he doesnt see his job as catering to the press when it doesnt suit him.
Im not 100% pro Carroll or Russ.. Im just saying.. theres a lot of intellectual dishonesty going around.
We dont know much. We know Russ is so frustrated he has his agents and his entourage talking and leaking and yapping. Way beyond he did when he tried to negotiate in public before. Beyond that, its all speculation.
If we really want to guess at the OPs question of why it had to come to this Id say:
Its quite likely that Carroll doesnt see Russ how Russ sees himself. And if we take that a step further, Russ sees himself as the same as Manning and Brady. Carroll perhaps seems him as really, really good but whose limitations mean he needs certain things done. I can see how the board mostly feels. I honestly dont know. I personally belief there are certain, subtle hints that say Russ is a top 5 QB when used right, but used wrong hes not elite hes "merely" very good. I also dare say that he might be starting to age.
Anyway..sorry..lost focus on what was meant to be a short point....
Have you run that by John63?OrangeGravy":9ndgf24g said:Excellent post. That last paragraph is spot on in my opinion and I completely agree that is what Russ is. Russ obviously disagrees. I don't think he's heading for the success that he thinks he is. To my recollection, he's only had one really complete season cover to cover and that was the year he accounted for something like 85% of our offense. Every other year he's either started well and finished poorly or vice versa and he hasn't been that guy in the playoffs yet. He's had solid games in the early years not making mistakes, but since then, he's bad average to poor with fleeting moments like the GB NFC champ game finish. I'm perfectly fine with him moving on. I think Pete's desired use of him is the perfect recipe for Russ. I can fully understand him wanting to prove he's the man, I just don't think he is on that level. I'm ready for a reboot. I'm looking forward to it.Vetamur":9ndgf24g said:Honestly, no one knows and we are all just reading between the lines..and its almost a litmus test of what people want to believe.
The "behind closed doors" example is maybe the prime one. It does seem to be true at some point Russ tried to give "input" and was turned down. Some people take that to mean he calmly presented great ideas and was brushed off rudely. We dont know anything about the meeting. We dont know if Russ presented reasonable ideas, or if he looked back at our game vs Buffalo and said "Lets purely throw the ball the whole game". We dont know. And we dont know if he was told "look, thats an idea..but thats too much too implement in the short week so we just cant do it" or if he was told "thats not your place Russ!" We dont know if he actually "stormed out" or said calmly "well, I guess Im not needed here and Id rather not say something I will regret so..Im out".
For those who are purely Wilson partisans , there is a lot of twisting of whats going on.. "he didnt throw the O line under the bus". Well..not by name. But, yes, he did. "He hasnt asked for a trade".. well, no. He wont. But we arent even at the point we can really pretend thats true. Hes had his camp saying basically, he wont ask for a trade but his future lies elsewhere. It means something when you give the list of names youll go to, to the media. Because thats the other part of this. Theres literally not one tiny bit of a reason any of this had to be given to the media. It doesnt help his position, it actually hurts it. Pete Carroll doesnt care what someone at 710am KIRO says or what the the Seattle Times says. Hes not a young coach fighting for his life and public opinion. Hes long shown he doesnt see his job as catering to the press when it doesnt suit him.
Im not 100% pro Carroll or Russ.. Im just saying.. theres a lot of intellectual dishonesty going around.
We dont know much. We know Russ is so frustrated he has his agents and his entourage talking and leaking and yapping. Way beyond he did when he tried to negotiate in public before. Beyond that, its all speculation.
If we really want to guess at the OPs question of why it had to come to this Id say:
Its quite likely that Carroll doesnt see Russ how Russ sees himself. And if we take that a step further, Russ sees himself as the same as Manning and Brady. Carroll perhaps seems him as really, really good but whose limitations mean he needs certain things done. I can see how the board mostly feels. I honestly dont know. I personally belief there are certain, subtle hints that say Russ is a top 5 QB when used right, but used wrong hes not elite hes "merely" very good. I also dare say that he might be starting to age.
Anyway..sorry..lost focus on what was meant to be a short point....
mistaowen":2cirq6qn said:Seahawks office manager changed from Coke to Pepsi and Russell is furious
John63":tjx2x8px said:Throwdown":tjx2x8px said:John63":tjx2x8px said:hawks85":tjx2x8px said:Alright, what the hell is going on here? I still don't know how and why this whole thing has gone into a tailspin. Why is Wilson even mad? Because of a TB O-line performance at the SB, and Brady not getting hit, is this the reason why Wilson is having a fit, I don't know. This whole thing could have been settled behind closed doors. Why did Wilson throw the entire O-line etc...under the bus and made a media spectacle out of this. Has Wilson even requested a trade? Sorry, I am just confused with all this.
okay
1 he did not throw the oline under the bus
2. he tried to handle it behind closed doors and was dismissed
3. he has not asked for a trade and in fact said he wants to stay in Seattle
these are the facts we know everything else is either made up, from an unnamed source or conjecture
Then what was the point of presenting a list?
He did not present the list his agent did, and that was in response to some unnamed source saying they were open to trading him
That evil agent made thee whole thing up,? no doubt St. Russell was betrayed?Throwdown":fsjd2frn said:John63":fsjd2frn said:Throwdown":fsjd2frn said:John63":fsjd2frn said:okay
1 he did not throw the oline under the bus
2. he tried to handle it behind closed doors and was dismissed
3. he has not asked for a trade and in fact said he wants to stay in Seattle
these are the facts we know everything else is either made up, from an unnamed source or conjecture
Then what was the point of presenting a list?
He did not present the list his agent did, and that was in response to some unnamed source saying they were open to trading him
And who gave that list? Who is the agent speaking for?
John63":3w35y1oe said:HawkinNY":3w35y1oe said:So we know for a fact he tried to handle it behind closed doors? Also the team got rid of all the Alpha dogs to help poor Russ feel better. Even M Rob said it. Years ago the LOB was saying it. And yes he did throw the online under the bus. He said it’s their fault he gets hit so much.John63":3w35y1oe said:hawks85":3w35y1oe said:Alright, what the hell is going on here? I still don't know how and why this whole thing has gone into a tailspin. Why is Wilson even mad? Because of a TB O-line performance at the SB, and Brady not getting hit, is this the reason why Wilson is having a fit, I don't know. This whole thing could have been settled behind closed doors. Why did Wilson throw the entire O-line etc...under the bus and made a media spectacle out of this. Has Wilson even requested a trade? Sorry, I am just confused with all this.
okay
1 he did not throw the oline under the bus
2. he tried to handle it behind closed doors and was dismissed
3. he has not asked for a trade and in fact said he wants to stay in Seattle
these are the facts we know everything else is either made up, from an unnamed source or conjecture
I think Russ will be hit the same no matter where he goes. Unless he gets rid of the ball in 1 second like Brady. But he can’t see the field like Brady can.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He said he is tried of getting hit so much, and we need to get better, and he needs to get better at no point did he say oline, Scheme has just as much to do with it as anything
What were the LOB saying? last I checked it was just Sherman who b!@ch about everyone but the LOB. Mrod needs to get his clicks and views so mean s nothing, DK supported What Wilson said, Brown has supported it. Also as to LOD last I Checked every one of them but Chancellor also called out PC. Lynch gave PC the finger, as did Baldwin as did others.
Al;so and again every QB under PC has been amongst the most sacked this is a scheme thing
hawks85":2lxekt53 said:jammerhawk":2lxekt53 said:Yes there is an apparent difference in philosophies between Pete and Wilson, and who is to say who's is the most correct. Pete's has been proven to work over a number of seasons, and Wilson's flashed dramatically until defences figured out to play 2 deep safeties against it and to spy Wilson. The league has changed defensively and Pete's way could still work if the running game could be more varied and creative forcing at least one of the safeties to play up and in the box to deal with a running attack that is gouging the D for yardage, then Russell can cook if the D has to respect a quick passing track along with the deep hitters.
After the season ended the team has gone a long way to attempt to accommodate a joining of the two philosophies and now have a more creative younger OC. The OLine as ever still needs help on the interior @ LG and C and it will be interesting to see if the team can acquire talent at these two positions. They are critical to protecting Wilson in the division. The team has consistently attempted to accommodate Wilson, he was truly paid #1 money as important and has been given players he's requested to help him. A fair question can be asked if he provided the return on investment consistent with his pay.
At present it is hard to know if the public spat between Wilson's camp and the team can be resolved. Wilson's agent has indicated indirectly that Wilson would agree to a trade to several specific teams but has not actually said he wants a trade, though implying as much. Wilson is reported to have publicly stated he isn't being protected by his OLine has no faith that the team's coaching can ge the team back to a Super Bowl which is highly unfortunate and is hardly 'protecting his team'. seems more about protecting his legacy rather than winning.The next few days will tell a great deal as to what the future of this relationship will be but it is certain that Wilson's camp has poisoned the well to some degree and it could be the point of no return has been reached behind the scenes. When we watch Brady work his deals to assist the team perhaps we are not getting consistent championship performance from Wilson. I am not slamming Wilson as I think he is a true franchise QB, but he has issues like others do and needs to recognize that a significant % of the hits he takes are on him for holding onto the ball too long. Of course it could as well be scheme limitation as well.
Publicly the team's response is only they are disappointed that Wilson has gone public and if called they will at best just listen to offers which need to begin at 3-1st round picks, plus a player or players and perhaps other draft picks. The rumbles from various supposed 'insiders' indicate there is a fire here and not just smoke, time will tell and that time is soon.
Wilson needs to just stop throwing fits. Wilson needs to grow 3-4 inches. 80 percent of Wilson's sacks are on Wilson and no one else. He drops backs 30 steps runs around for 4-5 seconds hangs onto the ball for way to long, I mean what do you think is gonna happen. Wilson doesn't have the height to be a pocket QB he's to short. No O-line in the world will protect him any better. His height is a major issue for what Wilson thinks he can be. Wilson will never ever be Brady, and I think that's what Wilson is trying to be or compared to. TB still wins the SB if Wilson was QB, BUT Wilson would have been running around, and he would have been hit several times.
OrangeGravy":1i3di6gr said:Excellent post. That last paragraph is spot on in my opinion and I completely agree that is what Russ is. Russ obviously disagrees. I don't think he's heading for the success that he thinks he is. To my recollection, he's only had one really complete season cover to cover and that was the year he accounted for something like 85% of our offense. Every other year he's either started well and finished poorly or vice versa and he hasn't been that guy in the playoffs yet. He's had solid games in the early years not making mistakes, but since then, he's bad average to poor with fleeting moments like the GB NFC champ game finish. I'm perfectly fine with him moving on. I think Pete's desired use of him is the perfect recipe for Russ. I can fully understand him wanting to prove he's the man, I just don't think he is on that level. I'm ready for a reboot. I'm looking forward to it.Vetamur":1i3di6gr said:Honestly, no one knows and we are all just reading between the lines..and its almost a litmus test of what people want to believe.
The "behind closed doors" example is maybe the prime one. It does seem to be true at some point Russ tried to give "input" and was turned down. Some people take that to mean he calmly presented great ideas and was brushed off rudely. We dont know anything about the meeting. We dont know if Russ presented reasonable ideas, or if he looked back at our game vs Buffalo and said "Lets purely throw the ball the whole game". We dont know. And we dont know if he was told "look, thats an idea..but thats too much too implement in the short week so we just cant do it" or if he was told "thats not your place Russ!" We dont know if he actually "stormed out" or said calmly "well, I guess Im not needed here and Id rather not say something I will regret so..Im out".
For those who are purely Wilson partisans , there is a lot of twisting of whats going on.. "he didnt throw the O line under the bus". Well..not by name. But, yes, he did. "He hasnt asked for a trade".. well, no. He wont. But we arent even at the point we can really pretend thats true. Hes had his camp saying basically, he wont ask for a trade but his future lies elsewhere. It means something when you give the list of names youll go to, to the media. Because thats the other part of this. Theres literally not one tiny bit of a reason any of this had to be given to the media. It doesnt help his position, it actually hurts it. Pete Carroll doesnt care what someone at 710am KIRO says or what the the Seattle Times says. Hes not a young coach fighting for his life and public opinion. Hes long shown he doesnt see his job as catering to the press when it doesnt suit him.
Im not 100% pro Carroll or Russ.. Im just saying.. theres a lot of intellectual dishonesty going around.
We dont know much. We know Russ is so frustrated he has his agents and his entourage talking and leaking and yapping. Way beyond he did when he tried to negotiate in public before. Beyond that, its all speculation.
If we really want to guess at the OPs question of why it had to come to this Id say:
Its quite likely that Carroll doesnt see Russ how Russ sees himself. And if we take that a step further, Russ sees himself as the same as Manning and Brady. Carroll perhaps seems him as really, really good but whose limitations mean he needs certain things done. I can see how the board mostly feels. I honestly dont know. I personally belief there are certain, subtle hints that say Russ is a top 5 QB when used right, but used wrong hes not elite hes "merely" very good. I also dare say that he might be starting to age.
Anyway..sorry..lost focus on what was meant to be a short point....