Why Wilson should or shouldn't be happy with '21 offense.

[Frozenropers]

1. Russ needs to have a more balanced season.....no huge first half/tank second half and playoff game.
2. Additions of Jackson on O-line, Everett at TE, Healthy Penny, Swain developing into a more dynamic #3
3. Continuity on remaining O-line
4. New OC

If Russ isn’t excited about the opportunity for this offense to be more dynamic then F him.

 

[BASF]

What was Russ' season like once we started to see a lot of cover-2?

Complete simple concepts against cover-2 like a big boy, and check to run against light boxes like you're supposed to.

You know why DK was pissed?

Tell us why DK was pissed?

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

That's really simple. There were a lot of occasions where DK was open on crossers, but Wilson was playing hero ball with deep passes elsewhere. It's not like he is going to go to the press about his best buddy. It is far easier to criticize the coaches with generic stuff that is already been said by others. The run run pass narrative is no where near true for last season. The last nine games where many are lamenting the return of "Peteball" and Pete "pulled the reins" there was only thirteen instances of run run pass and most of those were with us running out the clock. The receivers are sticking up for Wilson in the press, but I would guess that they have talked to Wilson about being open and him not looking to throw their way.

 

[toffee]

What was Russ' season like once we started to see a lot of cover-2?

Complete simple concepts against cover-2 like a big boy, and check to run against light boxes like you're supposed to.

You know why DK was pissed?

Tell us why DK was pissed?

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

That's really simple. There were a lot of occasions where DK was open on crossers, but Wilson was playing hero ball with deep passes elsewhere. It's not like he is going to go to the press about his best buddy. It is far easier to criticize the coaches with generic stuff that is already been said by others. The run run pass narrative is no where near true for last season. The last nine games where many are lamenting the return of "Peteball" and Pete "pulled the reins" there was only thirteen instances of run run pass and most of those were with us running out the clock. The receivers are sticking up for Wilson in the press, but I would guess that they have talked to Wilson about being open and him not looking to throw their way.

Hero ball also takes more seconds to develope, putting OL in difficult situations.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

 

[kf3339]

He should be very happy with a younger, healthy and much better LG in Jackson. Our O-Line still needs a few player for depth and possibly a starter role at C and maybe OT. That I really hope is found in the draft coming soon!

Besides, the goal is to win the games and our new pass rush should help get our D off the field more often which should give Wilson more opportunities in games. I thing he is looking at the whole picture on both sides of the ball and ST.

 

[John63]

What was Russ' season like once we started to see a lot of cover-2?

Complete simple concepts against cover-2 like a big boy, and check to run against light boxes like you're supposed to.

You know why DK was pissed?

Tell us why DK was pissed?

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

DK was pissed and if Tical had bothered to look for Dks interview you would know why and it was not Wilson. He was pissed at the system and the lack of adjustments he said it. But he did not. as an FYI after the bulls game were the 2 high thing started (a thing Wilson has seen before and shredded and the game was called to adjust to it, look at 2015)

SO just so we all know in the 2nd half ot the season when the 2 high safety thing happened here are some number

67% compt, 12 tds, 95 Qb rating yeah not exactly bad at all. Oh and he was our #2 rusher with most of that coming after game 8.

The biggest issues with the 2nd half was injuries on the oline and at RB

That said there are a few things that are inevitable

death, life, learning, taxes and tical coming out when its Wilson bashing time and disappearing when Wilson is playing well

 

[TwistedHusky]

It remains to be seen what kind of offense we have.

But we are still left with the reality that our coach is a defensive-minded HC that is still stuck with the belief that time of possession matters as much as it once did.

The thing with KPIs is that they are often indicators. Focusing on them stretches the relationship between the indicator and the things they are supposedly indicators of. And so you get jacked up KPIs without the underlying results you are looking for.

Ultimately, the success of our offense is going to depend on Carroll preventing himself from meddling.

I think he is too old to learn at this point. So expecting change is probably foolish. We can hope for it, because that is all we can do. But we likely know the answer before we ask the question right now.

The world is not static but dynamic. Fixating on KPIs as the key to success is a sure route to failure as things change...and they always do.

At one point, In the NBA, you 'could not win a championship' without a great center. Now you don't even need centers.

At one point, no NBA team that was primarily a 3 point shooting team could win a championship. Nor could a run and gun offense, because 'things slowed down in the playoffs'. Now you cannot win a championship WITHOUT great 3 point shooting, and great 3 point shooting at a high clip.

In the NFL now,

Running the ball comes with so many negatives because the rules are tilted against you. One iffy holding call will utterly shut your drive down, because now it is 2nd and 20. Meanwhile, passing, 3rd and 20 is easily converted with just a 5 yd defensive holding penalty being called.

And even when it works, it doesn't. Because go to the playoffs running the ball regularly, get behind and start needing to throw the ball - and find out you struggle because you are trying to play a type of football you rarely used enough to get the execution down pat.

We always look good at the 3/4 mark. The key will be how we look in the final 1/4 and in the playoffs. For that, Carroll is going to have to learn to stop meddling. Can he? He seems too old to learn at this point.

 

[toffee]

It remains to be seen what kind of offense we have.

But we are still left with the reality that our coach is a defensive-minded HC that is still stuck with the belief that time of possession matters as much as it once did.

The thing with KPIs is that they are often indicators. Focusing on them stretches the relationship between the indicator and the things they are supposedly indicators of. And so you get jacked up KPIs without the underlying results you are looking for.

Ultimately, the success of our offense is going to depend on Carroll preventing himself from meddling.

I think he is too old to learn at this point. So expecting change is probably foolish. We can hope for it, because that is all we can do. But we likely know the answer before we ask the question right now.

The world is not static but dynamic. Fixating on KPIs as the key to success is a sure route to failure as things change...and they always do.

At one point, In the NBA, you 'could not win a championship' without a great center. Now you don't even need centers.

At one point, no NBA team that was primarily a 3 point shooting team could win a championship. Nor could a run and gun offense, because 'things slowed down in the playoffs'. Now you cannot win a championship WITHOUT great 3 point shooting, and great 3 point shooting at a high clip.

In the NFL now,

Running the ball comes with so many negatives because the rules are tilted against you. One iffy holding call will utterly shut your drive down, because now it is 2nd and 20. Meanwhile, passing, 3rd and 20 is easily converted with just a 5 yd defensive holding penalty being called.

And even when it works, it doesn't. Because go to the playoffs running the ball regularly, get behind and start needing to throw the ball - and find out you struggle because you are trying to play a type of football you rarely used enough to get the execution down pat.

We always look good at the 3/4 mark. The key will be how we look in the final 1/4 and in the playoffs. For that, Carroll is going to have to learn to stop meddling. Can he? He seems too old to learn at this point.

Can someone look up Wilson's stat on 3 steps drop throwing short passes ?

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

 

[John63]

It remains to be seen what kind of offense we have.

But we are still left with the reality that our coach is a defensive-minded HC that is still stuck with the belief that time of possession matters as much as it once did.

The thing with KPIs is that they are often indicators. Focusing on them stretches the relationship between the indicator and the things they are supposedly indicators of. And so you get jacked up KPIs without the underlying results you are looking for.

Ultimately, the success of our offense is going to depend on Carroll preventing himself from meddling.

I think he is too old to learn at this point. So expecting change is probably foolish. We can hope for it, because that is all we can do. But we likely know the answer before we ask the question right now.

The world is not static but dynamic. Fixating on KPIs as the key to success is a sure route to failure as things change...and they always do.

At one point, In the NBA, you 'could not win a championship' without a great center. Now you don't even need centers.

At one point, no NBA team that was primarily a 3 point shooting team could win a championship. Nor could a run and gun offense, because 'things slowed down in the playoffs'. Now you cannot win a championship WITHOUT great 3 point shooting, and great 3 point shooting at a high clip.

In the NFL now,

Running the ball comes with so many negatives because the rules are tilted against you. One iffy holding call will utterly shut your drive down, because now it is 2nd and 20. Meanwhile, passing, 3rd and 20 is easily converted with just a 5 yd defensive holding penalty being called.

And even when it works, it doesn't. Because go to the playoffs running the ball regularly, get behind and start needing to throw the ball - and find out you struggle because you are trying to play a type of football you rarely used enough to get the execution down pat.

We always look good at the 3/4 mark. The key will be how we look in the final 1/4 and in the playoffs. For that, Carroll is going to have to learn to stop meddling. Can he? He seems too old to learn at this point.

Can someone look up Wilson's stat on 3 steps drop throwing short passes ?

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

The problem with what u want is YAC. I cam tell u on paid ESPN he actually does well on 3 step drops, and 7 step, nor as good on 5 step drops though. Most of his short passes come on 3 and 7 step drops

 

[KiwiHawk]

Why he should be happy:
New OC
Improvement in TE
New LG

Why he shouldn't be happy :
Was our new OC his preferred one? Did he had much input on that hiring?
Starting OL is 80% same as last year, backups identical to '20.
Starting RB corp basically the same except swapping Carlos with Alex.
Starting WR lost 3WR Moore with no replacement.

What do you guys think?

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

Russ playing better football in '21 would make him substantially happier with the offense as well.

yes he has to do better than
9th in yards,
7th in Qb rating
8th in QBR
2nd in TDs
6th in Complt %
7th in td/int ratio

I mean jeeze there are 2 other guys top 10 in all those categories.

And when he wants the team to pay him, is he happy with the 9th highest salary? 8th? 7th? Even 2nd?

No, he wants to be the highest-paid, and at the time we sign him we make him the highest-paid. Not the 9th, or 8th, or 7th.

Wilson set the expectations with his salary demands. With that much capital tied up in one player, our hands are tied in free agency, and even extending players. So he has to do a lot himself, because that's the bed he made.

He needs to stop whining about getting hit more and work on how he can get the ball out faster, and he needs to stop whining about being traded and start playing like we pay him.

Somehow he expects us to turn the entire OL around in 2 years while hefting his massive salary and retaining the other offensive talent. Maybe he's good at being a QB, but he sucks at understanding the salary cap.

 

[Throwdown]

The NFL banning 2 high safeties would make him happy as hell.

 

[John63]

Why he should be happy:
New OC
Improvement in TE
New LG

Why he shouldn't be happy :
Was our new OC his preferred one? Did he had much input on that hiring?
Starting OL is 80% same as last year, backups identical to '20.
Starting RB corp basically the same except swapping Carlos with Alex.
Starting WR lost 3WR Moore with no replacement.

What do you guys think?

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

Russ playing better football in '21 would make him substantially happier with the offense as well.

yes he has to do better than
9th in yards,
7th in Qb rating
8th in QBR
2nd in TDs
6th in Complt %
7th in td/int ratio

I mean jeeze there are 2 other guys top 10 in all those categories.

And when he wants the team to pay him, is he happy with the 9th highest salary? 8th? 7th? Even 2nd?

No, he wants to be the highest-paid, and at the time we sign him we make him the highest-paid. Not the 9th, or 8th, or 7th.

Wilson set the expectations with his salary demands. With that much capital tied up in one player, our hands are tied in free agency, and even extending players. So he has to do a lot himself, because that's the bed he made.

He needs to stop whining about getting hit more and work on how he can get the ball out faster, and he needs to stop whining about being traded and start playing like we pay him.

Somehow he expects us to turn the entire OL around in 2 years while hefting his massive salary and retaining the other offensive talent. Maybe he's good at being a QB, but he sucks at understanding the salary cap.

They have had 9 years t :177692: o fix the oline. To include while Wilson was on a rookie contract and still nor fixed. As to the rest of your post all I can say is you are blissful for sure

 

[pittpnthrs]

And when he wants the team to pay him, is he happy with the 9th highest salary? 8th? 7th? Even 2nd?

No, he wants to be the highest-paid, and at the time we sign him we make him the highest-paid. Not the 9th, or 8th, or 7th.

Wilson set the expectations with his salary demands. With that much capital tied up in one player, our hands are tied in free agency, and even extending players. So he has to do a lot himself, because that's the bed he made.

He needs to stop whining about getting hit more and work on how he can get the ball out faster, and he needs to stop whining about being traded and start playing like we pay him.

Somehow he expects us to turn the entire OL around in 2 years while hefting his massive salary and retaining the other offensive talent. Maybe he's good at being a QB, but he sucks at understanding the salary cap.

The team could have restructured his contract (again) to help in signing other players but decided not to. Seems odd, doesnt it. This notion that Wilsons contract has the team hogtied is old and tiresome and not true.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Russ playing better football in '21 would make him substantially happier with the offense as well.

yes he has to do better than
9th in yards,
7th in Qb rating
8th in QBR
2nd in TDs
6th in Complt %
7th in td/int ratio

I mean jeeze there are 2 other guys top 10 in all those categories.

And when he wants the team to pay him, is he happy with the 9th highest salary? 8th? 7th? Even 2nd?

No, he wants to be the highest-paid, and at the time we sign him we make him the highest-paid. Not the 9th, or 8th, or 7th.

Wilson set the expectations with his salary demands. With that much capital tied up in one player, our hands are tied in free agency, and even extending players. So he has to do a lot himself, because that's the bed he made.

He needs to stop whining about getting hit more and work on how he can get the ball out faster, and he needs to stop whining about being traded and start playing like we pay him.

Somehow he expects us to turn the entire OL around in 2 years while hefting his massive salary and retaining the other offensive talent. Maybe he's good at being a QB, but he sucks at understanding the salary cap.

They have had 9 years t :177692: o fix the oline. To include while Wilson was on a rookie contract and still nor fixed. As to the rest of your post all I can say is you are blissful for sure

The OL that existed when Wilson ended his rookie contract would not exist today, except maybe in fantasyland. Maybe if they were all drafted at the same time some of them might still be around, but it's unlikely since successful OL cost a lot of money to retain.

I'm counting the shift from Cable to Solari as an attempt to fix the OL, whereas you probably see it as "doing nothing", so I am starting the clock from Solari's hire since that's the fair thing to do.

Wilson has done nothing in the mean time to decrease his time-to-throw, by the way, which is 27th in the league. Naturally it's all on the OL that Solari wasn't even here for (but which has been improving SINCE Solari arrived), and none at all is to do with Wilson holding the ball too damn long.

 

[KiwiHawk]

And when he wants the team to pay him, is he happy with the 9th highest salary? 8th? 7th? Even 2nd?

No, he wants to be the highest-paid, and at the time we sign him we make him the highest-paid. Not the 9th, or 8th, or 7th.

Wilson set the expectations with his salary demands. With that much capital tied up in one player, our hands are tied in free agency, and even extending players. So he has to do a lot himself, because that's the bed he made.

He needs to stop whining about getting hit more and work on how he can get the ball out faster, and he needs to stop whining about being traded and start playing like we pay him.

Somehow he expects us to turn the entire OL around in 2 years while hefting his massive salary and retaining the other offensive talent. Maybe he's good at being a QB, but he sucks at understanding the salary cap.

The team could have restructured his contract (again) to help in signing other players but decided not to. Seems odd, doesnt it. This notion that Wilsons contract has the team hogtied is old and tiresome and not true.

Is this something you heard some talking head say so you automatically think it's a magic bullet answer to all of our cap problems?

Have you worked out the numbers and seen what a restructuring actually does to the next two years?

Extending Wilson could potentially reduce his impact on our cap this year by $15 mil by converting that to a signing bonus and spreading it over the next two years.

However, his CURRENT numbers for those seasons are $37 and $39 million so restructuring would push them $5 million higher *each season*. It's not like the money just vanishes - you might restructure now but what about the future? And because most of that money is in bonuses, the Seahawks would be effectively prohibited from trading him because of all the dead money it would cause.

The Seahawks could work out an *extension* with Wilson, but he'd want another highest-paid QB deal, which gets back to the question of why he demands #1 pay for less-than-#1 statistics.

On the other hand if we keep his salary where it is this year, that gives us $10 million less dead money to eat if we do a trade next year.

As much as we all like Wilson, a trade will probably happen because his salary is increasingly hard for the team to bear, and because teams will throw large amounts of attractive draft picks at us to secure his services. This year is a "deep QB draft" but next year probably not so much, so his value on the trade block increases if anything.

 

[pittpnthrs]

And when he wants the team to pay him, is he happy with the 9th highest salary? 8th? 7th? Even 2nd?

No, he wants to be the highest-paid, and at the time we sign him we make him the highest-paid. Not the 9th, or 8th, or 7th.

Wilson set the expectations with his salary demands. With that much capital tied up in one player, our hands are tied in free agency, and even extending players. So he has to do a lot himself, because that's the bed he made.

He needs to stop whining about getting hit more and work on how he can get the ball out faster, and he needs to stop whining about being traded and start playing like we pay him.

Somehow he expects us to turn the entire OL around in 2 years while hefting his massive salary and retaining the other offensive talent. Maybe he's good at being a QB, but he sucks at understanding the salary cap.

The team could have restructured his contract (again) to help in signing other players but decided not to. Seems odd, doesnt it. This notion that Wilsons contract has the team hogtied is old and tiresome and not true.

Is this something you heard some talking head say so you automatically think it's a magic bullet answer to all of our cap problems?

Have you worked out the numbers and seen what a restructuring actually does to the next two years?

Extending Wilson could potentially reduce his impact on our cap this year by $15 mil by converting that to a signing bonus and spreading it over the next two years.

However, his CURRENT numbers for those seasons are $37 and $39 million so restructuring would push them $5 million higher *each season*. It's not like the money just vanishes - you might restructure now but what about the future? And because most of that money is in bonuses, the Seahawks would be effectively prohibited from trading him because of all the dead money it would cause.

The Seahawks could work out an *extension* with Wilson, but he'd want another highest-paid QB deal, which gets back to the question of why he demands #1 pay for less-than-#1 statistics.

On the other hand if we keep his salary where it is this year, that gives us $10 million less dead money to eat if we do a trade next year.

As much as we all like Wilson, a trade will probably happen because his salary is increasingly hard for the team to bear, and because teams will throw large amounts of attractive draft picks at us to secure his services. This year is a "deep QB draft" but next year probably not so much, so his value on the trade block increases if anything.

The future? Why is anybody worried about the future? Carroll is a dinosaur and Wilson is in his prime. If a trade does happen after next season (which I believe there is a strong chance) the QB position is going to decrease greatly anyways so why not try to win now? Lets face it, Wilson is probably a top 3 QB in the league. With the crazy Adams trade, is this team not all in right now? Restructure Wilsons contract and sign some players to fix the holes and bite the bullet later. The butthurt over Wilsons contract is insane around here. A top tier QB in the league and a future HOFer and people act like he doesnt deserve the cash.

 

[John63]

And when he wants the team to pay him, is he happy with the 9th highest salary? 8th? 7th? Even 2nd?

No, he wants to be the highest-paid, and at the time we sign him we make him the highest-paid. Not the 9th, or 8th, or 7th.

Wilson set the expectations with his salary demands. With that much capital tied up in one player, our hands are tied in free agency, and even extending players. So he has to do a lot himself, because that's the bed he made.

He needs to stop whining about getting hit more and work on how he can get the ball out faster, and he needs to stop whining about being traded and start playing like we pay him.

Somehow he expects us to turn the entire OL around in 2 years while hefting his massive salary and retaining the other offensive talent. Maybe he's good at being a QB, but he sucks at understanding the salary cap.

The team could have restructured his contract (again) to help in signing other players but decided not to. Seems odd, doesnt it. This notion that Wilsons contract has the team hogtied is old and tiresome and not true.

Is this something you heard some talking head say so you automatically think it's a magic bullet answer to all of our cap problems?

Have you worked out the numbers and seen what a restructuring actually does to the next two years?

Extending Wilson could potentially reduce his impact on our cap this year by $15 mil by converting that to a signing bonus and spreading it over the next two years.

However, his CURRENT numbers for those seasons are $37 and $39 million so restructuring would push them $5 million higher *each season*. It's not like the money just vanishes - you might restructure now but what about the future? And because most of that money is in bonuses, the Seahawks would be effectively prohibited from trading him because of all the dead money it would cause.

The Seahawks could work out an *extension* with Wilson, but he'd want another highest-paid QB deal, which gets back to the question of why he demands #1 pay for less-than-#1 statistics.

On the other hand if we keep his salary where it is this year, that gives us $10 million less dead money to eat if we do a trade next year.

As much as we all like Wilson, a trade will probably happen because his salary is increasingly hard for the team to bear, and because teams will throw large amounts of attractive draft picks at us to secure his services. This year is a "deep QB draft" but next year probably not so much, so his value on the trade block increases if anything.

The future? Why is anybody worried about the future? Carroll is a dinosaur and Wilson is in his prime. If a trade does happen after next season (which I believe there is a strong chance) the QB position is going to decrease greatly anyways so why not try to win now? Lets face it, Wilson is probably a top 3 QB in the league. With the crazy Adams trade, is this team not all in right now? Restructure Wilsons contract and sign some players to fix the holes and bite the bullet later. The butthurt over Wilsons contract is insane around here. A top tier QB in the league and a future HOFer and people act like he doesnt deserve the cash.

Its amazing how some like to believe the talking heads when it suits them but ignore them when it does not. I have looked at the numbers, and sure you can restructure his contract now and save some and then F.. your cap up next year this a fact. Also, as to getting players well lets see how many of our draft Picks have been even avg? very few, how many of the FAs they got have been avg very few. Oline has been garbage since PC got hear even when Wilson was on rookie contract and guess what little has changed. Wilson has redone his contract for cap relief twice he has shown he is willing to its up the FO to do it and by the way don't need Wilson's permission to redo it either, so you have a problem with it not being done again yet blame the FO. In the meantime enjoy what you got because it all could be gone next season if the FO F... up.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Meanwhile, why are we are not hearing people blast Wags for not re-doing his deal???
hmmmmm

 

[John63]

Meanwhile, why are we are not hearing people blast Wags for not re-doing his deal???
hmmmmm

because wags fits the bill of a prototypical MLB. Because Wags is on defense and PC has done a great of making sure everyone knows only defense and running matters to him. I can go on but you get the idea.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Meanwhile, why are we are not hearing people blast Wags for not re-doing his deal???
hmmmmm

Because the pre-season isn't over yet and not all moves have been made. BWs contract may yet be restructured or even extended with voidable years as is the current fad.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Not really my point but ok. Go Hawks