Why Wilson should or shouldn't be happy with '21 offense.

[KiwiHawk]

The team could have restructured his contract (again) to help in signing other players but decided not to. Seems odd, doesnt it. This notion that Wilsons contract has the team hogtied is old and tiresome and not true.

Is this something you heard some talking head say so you automatically think it's a magic bullet answer to all of our cap problems?

Have you worked out the numbers and seen what a restructuring actually does to the next two years?

Extending Wilson could potentially reduce his impact on our cap this year by $15 mil by converting that to a signing bonus and spreading it over the next two years.

However, his CURRENT numbers for those seasons are $37 and $39 million so restructuring would push them $5 million higher *each season*. It's not like the money just vanishes - you might restructure now but what about the future? And because most of that money is in bonuses, the Seahawks would be effectively prohibited from trading him because of all the dead money it would cause.

The Seahawks could work out an *extension* with Wilson, but he'd want another highest-paid QB deal, which gets back to the question of why he demands #1 pay for less-than-#1 statistics.

On the other hand if we keep his salary where it is this year, that gives us $10 million less dead money to eat if we do a trade next year.

As much as we all like Wilson, a trade will probably happen because his salary is increasingly hard for the team to bear, and because teams will throw large amounts of attractive draft picks at us to secure his services. This year is a "deep QB draft" but next year probably not so much, so his value on the trade block increases if anything.

The future? Why is anybody worried about the future? Carroll is a dinosaur and Wilson is in his prime. If a trade does happen after next season (which I believe there is a strong chance) the QB position is going to decrease greatly anyways so why not try to win now? Lets face it, Wilson is probably a top 3 QB in the league. With the crazy Adams trade, is this team not all in right now? Restructure Wilsons contract and sign some players to fix the holes and bite the bullet later. The butthurt over Wilsons contract is insane around here. A top tier QB in the league and a future HOFer and people act like he doesnt deserve the cash.

Its amazing how some like to believe the talking heads when it suits them but ignore them when it does not. I have looked at the numbers, and sure you can restructure his contract now and save some and then F.. your cap up next year this a fact. Also, as to getting players well lets see how many of our draft Picks have been even avg? very few, how many of the FAs they got have been avg very few. Oline has been garbage since PC got hear even when Wilson was on rookie contract and guess what little has changed. Wilson has redone his contract for cap relief twice he has shown he is willing to its up the FO to do it and by the way don't need Wilson's permission to redo it either, so you have a problem with it not being done again yet blame the FO. In the meantime enjoy what you got because it all could be gone next season if the FO F... up.

Wilson's contract can only be restructured without his permission. That means any money we save this year must be paid back next year or the one after. Those years are already almost $40 million each, and there's only two years to work with.

So it really would be a matter of winning this season only and then heading into a complete rebuilding period. The problem with that is something may not go your way. You might get a bad call in a critical game, or a key player might get injured, and you don't make the Super Bowl this year. Now you're all in for nothing and are back to the pre-Carroll days where playoffs were appreciated because they were pretty scarce.

I said then and I say now that I would rather be the team that everyone dreads to play week on week than have one season of glory followed by a decade of being mediocre. Maybe you don't remember the years when we weren't respected, but I sure do, and I never want to go back to that.

 

[chris98251]

Is this something you heard some talking head say so you automatically think it's a magic bullet answer to all of our cap problems?

Have you worked out the numbers and seen what a restructuring actually does to the next two years?

Extending Wilson could potentially reduce his impact on our cap this year by $15 mil by converting that to a signing bonus and spreading it over the next two years.

However, his CURRENT numbers for those seasons are $37 and $39 million so restructuring would push them $5 million higher *each season*. It's not like the money just vanishes - you might restructure now but what about the future? And because most of that money is in bonuses, the Seahawks would be effectively prohibited from trading him because of all the dead money it would cause.

The Seahawks could work out an *extension* with Wilson, but he'd want another highest-paid QB deal, which gets back to the question of why he demands #1 pay for less-than-#1 statistics.

On the other hand if we keep his salary where it is this year, that gives us $10 million less dead money to eat if we do a trade next year.

As much as we all like Wilson, a trade will probably happen because his salary is increasingly hard for the team to bear, and because teams will throw large amounts of attractive draft picks at us to secure his services. This year is a "deep QB draft" but next year probably not so much, so his value on the trade block increases if anything.

The future? Why is anybody worried about the future? Carroll is a dinosaur and Wilson is in his prime. If a trade does happen after next season (which I believe there is a strong chance) the QB position is going to decrease greatly anyways so why not try to win now? Lets face it, Wilson is probably a top 3 QB in the league. With the crazy Adams trade, is this team not all in right now? Restructure Wilsons contract and sign some players to fix the holes and bite the bullet later. The butthurt over Wilsons contract is insane around here. A top tier QB in the league and a future HOFer and people act like he doesnt deserve the cash.

Its amazing how some like to believe the talking heads when it suits them but ignore them when it does not. I have looked at the numbers, and sure you can restructure his contract now and save some and then F.. your cap up next year this a fact. Also, as to getting players well lets see how many of our draft Picks have been even avg? very few, how many of the FAs they got have been avg very few. Oline has been garbage since PC got hear even when Wilson was on rookie contract and guess what little has changed. Wilson has redone his contract for cap relief twice he has shown he is willing to its up the FO to do it and by the way don't need Wilson's permission to redo it either, so you have a problem with it not being done again yet blame the FO. In the meantime enjoy what you got because it all could be gone next season if the FO F... up.

Wilson's contract can only be restructured without his permission. That means any money we save this year must be paid back next year or the one after. Those years are already almost $40 million each, and there's only two years to work with.

So it really would be a matter of winning this season only and then heading into a complete rebuilding period. The problem with that is something may not go your way. You might get a bad call in a critical game, or a key player might get injured, and you don't make the Super Bowl this year. Now you're all in for nothing and are back to the pre-Carroll days where playoffs were appreciated because they were pretty scarce.

I said then and I say now that I would rather be the team that everyone dreads to play week on week than have one season of glory followed by a decade of being mediocre. Maybe you don't remember the years when we weren't respected, but I sure do, and I never want to go back to that.

Screw respected, respect is what you give a team that tries hard.

I want the hate, being hated means your beating peoples asses and taking their chances away.

 

[John63]

Meanwhile, why are we are not hearing people blast Wags for not re-doing his deal???
hmmmmm

Because the pre-season isn't over yet and not all moves have been made. BWs contract may yet be restructured or even extended with voidable years as is the current fad.

well the same can be said of Wilson's too.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Meanwhile, why are we are not hearing people blast Wags for not re-doing his deal???
hmmmmm

Because the pre-season isn't over yet and not all moves have been made. BWs contract may yet be restructured or even extended with voidable years as is the current fad.

well the same can be said of Wilson's too.

For restructure, Wagner would free up around 5.5 million this season and have a dead cap figure of 10 million if cut next year if cut or traded.

Wilson would free up 12 million and would have around 40 million dead cap next year (if cut/traded).

As you can see, Wilson becomes prohibitively expensive to restructure if trading him is in the cards. We have yet to see how he will perform with Waldron as his OC, so it would be wise to wait and have less cap hit for potentially making a trade.

A for extending, Wagner is not likely to remain productive at his current level for another 4-5 years, and he knows that. Any contract given would reflect that. 12-15 mil average per year would be appropriate.

With Wilson, he can be expected to produce at his current level through his next contract and beyond if he plans to play into his 40's. His will be demanding to be the highest-paid QB so plan for something on the order of $46 million average per year over 4-5 years.

As much as you want to equate them, those two salaries and potential for restructure and/or extension are light-years apart. And like it or not, Wilson WILL be demanding near $50 million average per year for his next deal, which would probably be best paid by another team unless Wilson wants to back up his #1 salary demands with #1 play on the field.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Whatever the team needs to do to move around some money, I'm all for it. The players are not losing any money, they would just have money moved. It works out just fine for both sides.
But this constant Russ needs to take less money if he wants to win is a ridiculous argument. The league is full is high $ players who could do the exact same thing. And to equate a big salary with not wanting to win? Now THAT is funny. But that's what I expect from this place, over and over again.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Is this something you heard some talking head say so you automatically think it's a magic bullet answer to all of our cap problems?

Have you worked out the numbers and seen what a restructuring actually does to the next two years?

Extending Wilson could potentially reduce his impact on our cap this year by $15 mil by converting that to a signing bonus and spreading it over the next two years.

However, his CURRENT numbers for those seasons are $37 and $39 million so restructuring would push them $5 million higher *each season*. It's not like the money just vanishes - you might restructure now but what about the future? And because most of that money is in bonuses, the Seahawks would be effectively prohibited from trading him because of all the dead money it would cause.

The Seahawks could work out an *extension* with Wilson, but he'd want another highest-paid QB deal, which gets back to the question of why he demands #1 pay for less-than-#1 statistics.

On the other hand if we keep his salary where it is this year, that gives us $10 million less dead money to eat if we do a trade next year.

As much as we all like Wilson, a trade will probably happen because his salary is increasingly hard for the team to bear, and because teams will throw large amounts of attractive draft picks at us to secure his services. This year is a "deep QB draft" but next year probably not so much, so his value on the trade block increases if anything.

The future? Why is anybody worried about the future? Carroll is a dinosaur and Wilson is in his prime. If a trade does happen after next season (which I believe there is a strong chance) the QB position is going to decrease greatly anyways so why not try to win now? Lets face it, Wilson is probably a top 3 QB in the league. With the crazy Adams trade, is this team not all in right now? Restructure Wilsons contract and sign some players to fix the holes and bite the bullet later. The butthurt over Wilsons contract is insane around here. A top tier QB in the league and a future HOFer and people act like he doesnt deserve the cash.

Its amazing how some like to believe the talking heads when it suits them but ignore them when it does not. I have looked at the numbers, and sure you can restructure his contract now and save some and then F.. your cap up next year this a fact. Also, as to getting players well lets see how many of our draft Picks have been even avg? very few, how many of the FAs they got have been avg very few. Oline has been garbage since PC got hear even when Wilson was on rookie contract and guess what little has changed. Wilson has redone his contract for cap relief twice he has shown he is willing to its up the FO to do it and by the way don't need Wilson's permission to redo it either, so you have a problem with it not being done again yet blame the FO. In the meantime enjoy what you got because it all could be gone next season if the FO F... up.

Wilson's contract can only be restructured without his permission. That means any money we save this year must be paid back next year or the one after. Those years are already almost $40 million each, and there's only two years to work with.

So it really would be a matter of winning this season only and then heading into a complete rebuilding period. The problem with that is something may not go your way. You might get a bad call in a critical game, or a key player might get injured, and you don't make the Super Bowl this year. Now you're all in for nothing and are back to the pre-Carroll days where playoffs were appreciated because they were pretty scarce.

I said then and I say now that I would rather be the team that everyone dreads to play week on week than have one season of glory followed by a decade of being mediocre. Maybe you don't remember the years when we weren't respected, but I sure do, and I never want to go back to that.

Pre-Carroll days with scarce playoff appearances is right around the corner anyways so why not try to win it all while Wilson is still here and in his prime? The fact that the team isnt is a big reason why Wilson will probably leave anyways. If the team won another Super Bowl, I could care less how respected they were afterwards. Give me a Super Bowl and fall into mediocrity afterwards and i'm fine with that. Sounds a lot better than just making the playoffs and never advancing past the 2nd round.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Pre-Carroll days with scarce playoff appearances is right around the corner anyways so why not try to win it all while Wilson is still here and in his prime? The fact that the team isnt is a big reason why Wilson will probably leave anyways. If the team won another Super Bowl, I could care less how respected they were afterwards. Give me a Super Bowl and fall into mediocrity afterwards and i'm fine with that. Sounds a lot better than just making the playoffs and never advancing past the 2nd round.

We already won a super bowl. You got your wish. So, using your words, be fine with it.

Everything now is gravy, right?

 

[TwistedHusky]

A head coach that does not respect offense, cannot gameplan, and refuses to prioritize scoring TDs is going to be an issue no matter who your OC is.

So yes, I think it can be stated as an absolute that by 3/4 point of the season we will go into the same shell we always do...regardless of OC.

If the OC can manage to produce despite an aging decrepit hasbeen head coach holding him back? Then he is spectacular and we got incredibly lucky.

But I think we all know this is unlikely.

Asking for a SB is a bit much. But it would be nice to not be a laughingstock in the playoffs once the wildcard games are over.

Maybe even win a single divisional playoff game, considering we have the greatest QB the Seahawks ever had and one of the better rosters in the league. Just a thin hope.

I doubt Wilson will be happy because Wilson wants playoff wins. He won't get them here because the problem is less the OC than the person running the show. Wilson is starting to realize that.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Pre-Carroll days with scarce playoff appearances is right around the corner anyways so why not try to win it all while Wilson is still here and in his prime? The fact that the team isnt is a big reason why Wilson will probably leave anyways. If the team won another Super Bowl, I could care less how respected they were afterwards. Give me a Super Bowl and fall into mediocrity afterwards and i'm fine with that. Sounds a lot better than just making the playoffs and never advancing past the 2nd round.

We already won a super bowl. You got your wish. So, using your words, be fine with it.

Everything now is gravy, right?

Not while we still have Wilson. With a QB of that cailber, the team should at least be an honest threat for the Super Bowl, but the head coach holds them back, so they havent been for a long time now. Thats why i'm saying the heck with the future and sign the pieces or players that can push the team over the top despite Carrolls interference. Just like the talent of the 2013 team. Sign the talent now and deal with the cap hell later. The current path is obviously not working. Seattle is the team that other teams look forward to playing in the playoffs because they know the likelihood of winning is high. The Hawks scare nobody anymore. If and when Wilson bolts (strong possibility because he's tired of the current path too) the Seahawks are going to fall into mediocrity anyways. Thats why i'm saying to throw all the chips in even if means throwing chips in you dont even have. With the current head coach, I see no other choice.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Pre-Carroll days with scarce playoff appearances is right around the corner anyways so why not try to win it all while Wilson is still here and in his prime? The fact that the team isnt is a big reason why Wilson will probably leave anyways. If the team won another Super Bowl, I could care less how respected they were afterwards. Give me a Super Bowl and fall into mediocrity afterwards and i'm fine with that. Sounds a lot better than just making the playoffs and never advancing past the 2nd round.

We already won a super bowl. You got your wish. So, using your words, be fine with it.

Everything now is gravy, right?

Not while we still have Wilson. With a QB of that cailber, the team should at least be an honest threat for the Super Bowl, but the head coach holds them back, so they havent been for a long time now. Thats why i'm saying the heck with the future and sign the pieces or players that can push the team over the top despite Carrolls interference. Just like the talent of the 2013 team. Sign the talent now and deal with the cap hell later. The current path is obviously not working. Seattle is the team that other teams look forward to playing in the playoffs because they know the likelihood of winning is high. The Hawks scare nobody anymore. If and when Wilson bolts (strong possibility because he's tired of the current path too) the Seahawks are going to fall into mediocrity anyways. Thats why i'm saying to throw all the chips in even if means throwing chips in you dont even have. With the current head coach, I see no other choice.

We could win one more with Russ, and all of your arguments could still apply after that.

I just doubt you'll ever be happy. History speaks volumes, right? So do your posts.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Pre-Carroll days with scarce playoff appearances is right around the corner anyways so why not try to win it all while Wilson is still here and in his prime? The fact that the team isnt is a big reason why Wilson will probably leave anyways. If the team won another Super Bowl, I could care less how respected they were afterwards. Give me a Super Bowl and fall into mediocrity afterwards and i'm fine with that. Sounds a lot better than just making the playoffs and never advancing past the 2nd round.

We already won a super bowl. You got your wish. So, using your words, be fine with it.

Everything now is gravy, right?

Not while we still have Wilson. With a QB of that cailber, the team should at least be an honest threat for the Super Bowl, but the head coach holds them back, so they havent been for a long time now. Thats why i'm saying the heck with the future and sign the pieces or players that can push the team over the top despite Carrolls interference. Just like the talent of the 2013 team. Sign the talent now and deal with the cap hell later. The current path is obviously not working. Seattle is the team that other teams look forward to playing in the playoffs because they know the likelihood of winning is high. The Hawks scare nobody anymore. If and when Wilson bolts (strong possibility because he's tired of the current path too) the Seahawks are going to fall into mediocrity anyways. Thats why i'm saying to throw all the chips in even if means throwing chips in you dont even have. With the current head coach, I see no other choice.

We could win one more with Russ, and all of your arguments could still apply after that.

I just doubt you'll ever be happy. History speaks volumes, right? So do your posts.

But its going to be impossible to win one more with Wilson unless they sign more talent because Pete is too much to overcome. I always thought Pete would retire and the Hawks would bring in a younger, more innovated coach that Russ would excel under in route to another Super Bowl, but when the blind ownership gave Carroll a 5 year extension, it was time to panic. It will take a miracle for the Seahawks to win another Super Bowl with Pete Carroll. I'm just trying to find ways for that to happen while Wilson is still here. Its just a shame that Wilsons prime will be wasted because an antiquated coach doesnt realize when its time to hang it up.

 

[chris98251]

We already won a super bowl. You got your wish. So, using your words, be fine with it.

Everything now is gravy, right?

Not while we still have Wilson. With a QB of that cailber, the team should at least be an honest threat for the Super Bowl, but the head coach holds them back, so they havent been for a long time now. Thats why i'm saying the heck with the future and sign the pieces or players that can push the team over the top despite Carrolls interference. Just like the talent of the 2013 team. Sign the talent now and deal with the cap hell later. The current path is obviously not working. Seattle is the team that other teams look forward to playing in the playoffs because they know the likelihood of winning is high. The Hawks scare nobody anymore. If and when Wilson bolts (strong possibility because he's tired of the current path too) the Seahawks are going to fall into mediocrity anyways. Thats why i'm saying to throw all the chips in even if means throwing chips in you dont even have. With the current head coach, I see no other choice.

We could win one more with Russ, and all of your arguments could still apply after that.

I just doubt you'll ever be happy. History speaks volumes, right? So do your posts.

But its going to be impossible to win one more with Wilson unless they sign more talent because Pete is too much to overcome. I always thought Pete would retire and the Hawks would bring in a younger, more innovated coach that Russ would excel under in route to another Super Bowl, but when the blind ownership gave Carroll a 5 year extension, it was time to panic. It will take a miracle for the Seahawks to win another Super Bowl with Pete Carroll. I'm just trying to find ways for that to happen while Wilson is still here. Its just a shame that Wilsons prime will be wasted because an antiquated coach doesnt realize when its time to hang it up.

So you want Chip Kelly, he was innovative........

 

[pittpnthrs]

Not while we still have Wilson. With a QB of that cailber, the team should at least be an honest threat for the Super Bowl, but the head coach holds them back, so they havent been for a long time now. Thats why i'm saying the heck with the future and sign the pieces or players that can push the team over the top despite Carrolls interference. Just like the talent of the 2013 team. Sign the talent now and deal with the cap hell later. The current path is obviously not working. Seattle is the team that other teams look forward to playing in the playoffs because they know the likelihood of winning is high. The Hawks scare nobody anymore. If and when Wilson bolts (strong possibility because he's tired of the current path too) the Seahawks are going to fall into mediocrity anyways. Thats why i'm saying to throw all the chips in even if means throwing chips in you dont even have. With the current head coach, I see no other choice.

We could win one more with Russ, and all of your arguments could still apply after that.

I just doubt you'll ever be happy. History speaks volumes, right? So do your posts.

But its going to be impossible to win one more with Wilson unless they sign more talent because Pete is too much to overcome. I always thought Pete would retire and the Hawks would bring in a younger, more innovated coach that Russ would excel under in route to another Super Bowl, but when the blind ownership gave Carroll a 5 year extension, it was time to panic. It will take a miracle for the Seahawks to win another Super Bowl with Pete Carroll. I'm just trying to find ways for that to happen while Wilson is still here. Its just a shame that Wilsons prime will be wasted because an antiquated coach doesnt realize when its time to hang it up.

So you want Chip Kelly, he was innovative........

With Russell Wilson you never know what he could accomplish.