Can We Please For The Love Of God...

I personally don’t think any player and front office personnel is off-limits from discussing.

Why should it be?

Not all players play forever and not all coaches coach forever.

Yes, QBs cannot be found easily and great coaches can’t be found easily either.

But that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be discussed.

It’s a very valid topic if your starting QB is not looking so great and your coach is not coaching well to discuss other options.

I don’t get why that is so offensive to posters here.

You think if you started slacking off at work or not doing as well, you don’t think your manager may possibly think what if we had another person?

That’s life.

If you don’t want others to discuss removing you, play or coach better.

This shouldn’t be an offensive topic.

Sorry Aros, but this thread didn't age well.

Russ is no longer top talent. Either he really is falling off, or he's purposely playing like shit to prove that Pete ball ain't working.

Either way he is no longer good for this team. Time to move on.

Aros":1l3kx6sl said:

Sgt. Largent":1l3kx6sl said:

Aros":1l3kx6sl said:

Stop talking about trading Russell and DK and any of our top talent?.

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It's not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, it's being realistic.

Let me ask you a question, has Russell looked good, let alone his usual great self for almost an entire year now going back to mid season last year?

I'd say very sporadic good to great, and that's being kind.

I don't see the same dynamic bail our asses out on our way to the playoffs Russell for a long time. Is that ALL Pete's fault? Or is Wilson's age and now injuries a sign of a slow regression because he can no longer do what he does best, escape and make plays?

So sorry, I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend this is some aberration year and we're on our way back to the SB if we keep Russell.

And if I'm right and he has peaked and reached his potential as a dependable elite franchise QB? Then you better damn well start listening to offers for him next off season.

Or else you're looking at more sub .500 seasons for the rest of Pete and John's tenure here.

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I agree he hasn't been that same dynamic player consistently these past two seasons but I have to believe there are other factors involved and not simply a regression in talent and skill. Is that scheme? Protection issues? Of course some of his often discussed discrepencies should not be discounted whether that is not taking what the defense is giving him, going for hero ball instrad of check downs, etc...

I just feel that this is a once a generational talent that still has several really good years ahead of him. I would like to see at least one more season with him before trade talks ramp up for real.

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You would correct if your assumption of talent and skill is accurate, but I think you have to now question to what level that skill is actually at.

The Russell argument is really pointless. One side is arguing from the starting point that Russell is truly a great QB. The other is starting from the point that he never was. Talented QB, for sure. Great at the QB position, not so much. There's no reconciliation possible between those 2 starting points.

We need to throw out the baby and the bathwater.

Seahawks have been getting worse every year, mainly because of the natural progression of NFL's "parity" system. Rookies are cheap for awhile, then they get expensive, then we can't afford to keep everyone.

So we keep what we can and hope to strike draft gold, but that rarely happens.

At this point, we could keep most of the expensive players, but it comes at the expense of something else = Can't afford decent free agents, while our expensive core players lose a few steps. Maybe a couple rookies pan out, keeping things afloat while everything else deteriorates.

They'll try to keep patching things up, maybe we get a little better, and hope is always just around the next corner. It's long-term mediocrity.

Anyway, my vote is, if they're serious about being a SB contender again, gotta do a compete rebuild -- probably with new GM and coach.

Important Caveat: If you want Russ/DK to stay.. They probably will. Paul Allen is dead and he's the one who cared about Seahawks being good. Jody Allen probably doesn't care as much. For her owning the Seahawks isn't probably different than owning a condominium complex. It's just a stream of income.
-As long as tickets and merch keep selling, and the money keeps hitting her account, why make any major changes? She has her own interests.

HomerJHawk":332znlx9 said:

Sorry Aros, but this thread didn't age well.

Russ is no longer top talent. Either he really is falling off, or he's purposely playing like $h!t to prove that Pete ball ain't working.

Either way he is no longer good for this team. Time to move on.

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I also considered this and I do think it is possible.

Sgt. Largent":1kzwvqh6 said:

If Russell wanted to not be traded but I kinda do want to be traded last off season after going 12-4, I highly doubt he wouldn't expand his list of teams to make it easier for John to trade him because he'll REALLY want out come January after this disastrous season.

Only way I see Russell as part of the future of the Hawks is if Pete's fired and Russell's a major part of hiring the next coach and coordinator.

No way Russell's going to be OK with playing out the remainder of his deal or signing an extension at the end of 2022 if Pete's still here.

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Agreed.

Plus I'll add this: After watching last night's game, I am not completely convinced that we can attribute all of Russell's problems to his injured finger. There's something else that's wrong. He doesn't have the same escapability as he's had in past years. He doesn't take as deep of drops as he used to, meaning that he doesn't have the same vision, which could explain his reluctance to go over the middle. Perhaps he doesn't see as much to allow him that comfort. Perhaps his short stature is finally catching up to him. Despite his diminished mobility, he holds onto the ball longer than most of his older contemporaries, still tries to save plays that have a very low chance of succeeding.

Add that to a psychological make-up of wanting to be the hero and win games on 50 yard bombs to Metcalf and I'm beginning to wonder if Russell can regain the magic he once had. Bottom line is that I am beginning to have doubts about Russell's ability to regain the magic he once had, that his quarterbacking skills are diminishing, and that we might want to make a change at QB even if Russell wanted to stay and wasn't pulling down $35M.

RiverDog":1cil5q70 said:

Sgt. Largent":1cil5q70 said:

If Russell wanted to not be traded but I kinda do want to be traded last off season after going 12-4, I highly doubt he wouldn't expand his list of teams to make it easier for John to trade him because he'll REALLY want out come January after this disastrous season.

Only way I see Russell as part of the future of the Hawks is if Pete's fired and Russell's a major part of hiring the next coach and coordinator.

No way Russell's going to be OK with playing out the remainder of his deal or signing an extension at the end of 2022 if Pete's still here.

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Agreed.

Plus I'll add this: After watching last night's game, I am not completely convinced that we can attribute all of Russell's problems to his injured finger. There's something else that's wrong. He doesn't have the same escapability as he's had in past years. He doesn't take as deep of drops as he used to, meaning that he doesn't have the same vision, which could explain his reluctance to go over the middle. Perhaps he doesn't see as much to allow him that comfort. Perhaps his short stature is finally catching up to him. Despite his diminished mobility, he holds onto the ball longer than most of his older contemporaries, still tries to save plays that have a very low chance of succeeding.

Add that to a psychological make-up of wanting to be the hero and win games on 50 yard bombs to Metcalf and I'm beginning to wonder if Russell can regain the magic he once had. Bottom line is that I am beginning to have doubts about Russell's ability to regain the magic he once had, that his quarterbacking skills are diminishing, and that we might want to make a change at QB even if Russell wanted to stay and wasn't pulling down $35M.

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I'm no psychologist, but injury aside what I see going on is a human being going through an existential crisis right now.

Russell looks shook. Physically, mentally and emotionally.

Right now he's not the super human being he thought he was, and that's affecting his psyche. He's not the player he's always been either now.

Has there ever been Russell Wilson game more difficult to watch than last nights? I can't think of one. He just looks completely and utterly broken.

I really think it's time to jettison Pete. No doubt Russell has some mental issues or physical touch issues going on right now, but it's easier to find another head coach than it is to find another Russell Wilson.

Sgt. Largent":1fwuigq6 said:

I'm no psychologist, but injury aside what I see going on is a human being going through an existential crisis right now.

Russell looks shook. Physically, mentally and emotionally.

Right now he's not the super human being he thought he was, and that's affecting his psyche. He's not the player he's always been either now.

Has there ever been Russell Wilson game more difficult to watch than last nights? I can't think of one. He just looks completely and utterly broken.

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I'm no shrink, either, but I'd be surprised if Russell's going through some type of existential crisis as you are suggesting. Regardless of anything else we think about him, Russell is a tough dude and has faced his share of adversity before.

But I do agree with you that he looks spent. Unhappy with Pete? Frustrated with our lack of a running game? Or does he realize that he just plain isn't performing up to his own standards?

Aros said:

Stop talking about trading Russell and DK and any of our top talent?

Ever hear the saying don't throw the baby out with the bathwater? Oh sure, I get where the notion is coming from. Get all you can!! Surplus Sale!

It's short sighted. Don't fall victim to emotion. Use your intellect. Message boards are synonymous with hyperbole. I am not saying there aren't some specific cases to debate where it could seem logical to deal a player here or there but let's all settle down, cool it and realize most of us are not in our right minds dealing with a 3-7 season we all expected would be 7-3 at this stage.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

There's no perfect solution here. I am not trying to provide that easy answer but if you press me, I am going to tell you that it's time to let Pete walk. Not John. Not Russ. Not DK. Not Lockett. I am convinced none of them are the problem. But Pete? He's been figured out, and he refuses to change philosophy even in the face of obviousness.

If only I had my crystal ball clear enough to see who we should select as the successor to Pete AND be equally as successful. Sadly, that crystal ball doesn't exist. So all I can do is hope and pray whomever is the next HC for this team can have half the success Pete did because that would still be a ton of success.

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Amen brother!

Every one seems to think that Jody is 1 a hands on owner and 2 that she has some competitive nature to win and 3 that she wants to get into the internal machinations of the coaching and the players of the team and I don't think any of us know this.

Word on the street is she is looking for a buyer to sell the team. So I really don't think she put her mind to should Pete go should Russ stay etc etc.

If it is true and the team is sold this or next year it will be the new owner who will get involved with these issues.