https://twitter.com/seattletimes/status ... 4026651650
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sea ... 1616020082
Huh, really stubborn huh?
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sea ... 1616020082
Huh, really stubborn huh?
Pete and John not altering team building philosophy
- Thread starter Mizak
- Start date
misfit
Active member
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2009
- Messages
- 667
- Reaction score
- 32
I would like a team that has the flexibility to alter the strategy when it calls for it. thats what good front offices do.
What they do is stubborn to a fault and it costs you.
What they do is stubborn to a fault and it costs you.
Own The West
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2016
- Messages
- 1,107
- Reaction score
- 569
Mizak":1439i1uj said:
Really successful too. 3 NCAA and 1 NFL Championship so far. Only one of four coaches ever to do it at all levels.
TwistedHusky
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2013
- Messages
- 6,916
- Reaction score
- 1,107
A plan without the ability to execute is really just a wish.
The best coaches adjust their plan to their personnel.
Or barring that, at least attempt to work to assure the roster to built according to the plan.
The best coaches adjust their plan to their personnel.
Or barring that, at least attempt to work to assure the roster to built according to the plan.
FattyKnuckle
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2020
- Messages
- 1,480
- Reaction score
- 986
Own The West":3kv1dnoo said:
But the greatest NFL coach of all time with 7 SBs, one of them against PC, changes to fit his personnel. So if you ant to talk about rare coaching achievements, I'd say the scale is tipped waaaaaay towards adaptation.
Maelstrom787
Well-known member
This isn't news, it's a columnists opinion. The Seahawks FO has changed facets of its team-building approach several times.
Sgt. Largent
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2012
- Messages
- 25,560
- Reaction score
- 7,614
Maelstrom787":28ob4veb said:
But have those changes been successful?
I'd say with our continued flame outs in the first or second rounds of the playoffs for the past 7-8 years, the answer is no.
Pete and John have done a TREMENDOUS job of creating a player friendly culture of winning, competition and accountability. But they have failed to evolve their styles and draft/player acquisition philosophies into anything that resembles an identity or new foundation on how they're getting back to a Super Bowl.
What's our identity? What's the evolution of this team? What exactly is our draft and player acquisition philosophy? Because for the life of me I can't answer any of these questions.
jammerhawk
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2007
- Messages
- 10,223
- Reaction score
- 1,823
The team building philosophy is to bring in as many competitor for positions as the team can and then allow a fair competition to occur. The team consistently is a team that isn't cheap in FA but wants to find value instead of glamour. Some here want the splashy early signings yet always kvetch about the cap cost, the player's age, or their view of the player's perceived value to them. The team has the burden of top 3 QBs contract which limits their cap availability for big FA deals, yet consistently the team fields a competitive team despite shortage of cap and draft late annually. Whenever they do a big deal it is almost always panned as a mistake. Seems to me to be speaking from both sides of the complainers mouths.
Last year the team went 12-4 in the regular season and again was bounced out in the first round of the playoffs. It was clear that the pass protection wasn't up to snuff, RW didn't have a strong game, the running game had become predictable and rather easily defensible and the the D needed to be strong against the short pass and on 3rd down. Changes were made with the OC and it appears the interior OLine is being reworked, change appears to be happening with throning game. The big trade last year has handcuffed the team in this draft but JS is good at moving around and will need to be smart and careful this year. The team so far is following their usual careful script. What alterations do you see as sensible???
it's very early yet today being the 2nd day of actual free agency instead of the legal tampering period. Putting a team together is a marathon and often isn't finished until after the regular season begins and even then it is clear the team explores any option they can avail themselves of sensibly. I think some here are simply too impatient and need to chill out and see what is done. So far none the signings cause me concern and will improve the team.
Patience is needed as the team is unable to be big spenders with the cap decrease this year the draft is also complicated with no combine so the scouting is going to be very important.
Last year the team went 12-4 in the regular season and again was bounced out in the first round of the playoffs. It was clear that the pass protection wasn't up to snuff, RW didn't have a strong game, the running game had become predictable and rather easily defensible and the the D needed to be strong against the short pass and on 3rd down. Changes were made with the OC and it appears the interior OLine is being reworked, change appears to be happening with throning game. The big trade last year has handcuffed the team in this draft but JS is good at moving around and will need to be smart and careful this year. The team so far is following their usual careful script. What alterations do you see as sensible???
it's very early yet today being the 2nd day of actual free agency instead of the legal tampering period. Putting a team together is a marathon and often isn't finished until after the regular season begins and even then it is clear the team explores any option they can avail themselves of sensibly. I think some here are simply too impatient and need to chill out and see what is done. So far none the signings cause me concern and will improve the team.
Patience is needed as the team is unable to be big spenders with the cap decrease this year the draft is also complicated with no combine so the scouting is going to be very important.
John63
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2018
- Messages
- 6,651
- Reaction score
- 149
FattyKnuckle":28o19zkg said:
Yeah and lets remember his NFL success did not come till after he got Wilson. Before Wilson sub 500 after Wilson well over 600.
Sgt. Largent
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2012
- Messages
- 25,560
- Reaction score
- 7,614
jammerhawk":155ntokx said:
The team philosophy USED to be competition at every position, but the problem is the competition is far inferior at those positions resulting in being forced to trade away valuable draft capital to supplement those positions of failure.
Brown, Adams, Finney, Shell, Diggs, Clowney, Olsen, Dunlap, etc..........all trades that had to be done because Pete and John's drafting and development of those positions didn't work.
Why we're down to three picks in this years draft. Desperation. Gone are the days of adding talent like Avril, Harvin, Bennett, etc to put us over the top. Now we're forced to trade just to not go 8-8.
TheLegendOfBoom
Well-known member
It’s okay, one day, when I own the Seahawks, I’ll run it based on the current trends in the NFL.
I’m only a few billion dollars short....any one here interested in a joint ownership???
I have $20 on my share....I swear that’s all I have! Take it or leave it!
Lmao!
I’m only a few billion dollars short....any one here interested in a joint ownership???
I have $20 on my share....I swear that’s all I have! Take it or leave it!
Lmao!
pittpnthrs
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 19, 2017
- Messages
- 5,398
- Reaction score
- 1,931
Sgt. Largent":2pt8o82r said:
Well said. I would like to add that the team fielding a competitive squad every year despite the QBs contract is due to the,,,, QB. Also, the reason people usually complain about the big free agent acquisitions is because they usually always under perform and you can attribute that to the never ending philosophy the head coach refuses to deviate from.
There is less and less left on (sick) television worth watching. What Pete and John have done with the Seahawks is the exception. Their resilience in overcoming set backs and disappointments over the last decade is inspirational. :2thumbs:
FattyKnuckle
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2020
- Messages
- 1,480
- Reaction score
- 986
John63":1iocww7p said:
I don't think that's a fair comparison. He inherited a team that went 4-12 and 5-11 and still pulled off one of the biggest playoff upsets in NFL history. His first stint as a HC wasn't great but 10 years of a winning culture in college between NFL jobs makes it really hard to compare his current record vs the pre-USC record. I think he did really well here *comparatively" before Wilson, all while completely blowing up the roster.
Hawkpower
Well-known member
While Pete certainly has his flaws, its the responses in this thread that remind me that we have hawk fans in this forum who don't remember/never experienced the lean times.
Its ok to be constructively critical while still acknowledging that we are coming off another division crown, a 12-4 record and another playoff berth
Enjoy the good times, they don't last forever
Its ok to be constructively critical while still acknowledging that we are coming off another division crown, a 12-4 record and another playoff berth
Enjoy the good times, they don't last forever
John63
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2018
- Messages
- 6,651
- Reaction score
- 149
FattyKnuckle":1n3tahjt said:
I don't think it fair to say he has been really successful in the NFL and not acknowledge he has not been really successful in the NFL till eh got Wilson. You can't have both. AS to college lots of coaches do great in college and not in the NFL same with players. Wilson has a college career fill with success and NFL career fill with success as well. Al I am pointing out is the fact that his NFL career without Wilson was not good.
Hawkpower
Well-known member
John63":1jefkr5y said:
About .500 in a small handful of seasons
Not sure its fair to characterize it as not good. How about decent/somewhat incomplete all things considered.
We also don't know if he learned more while at SC that made him a better coach. Hard to say honestly, he came into a hot mess in Seattle
FattyKnuckle
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2020
- Messages
- 1,480
- Reaction score
- 986
John63":2zt74o49 said:
I didn't say he was really successful in the NFL. I said calling him a subpar coach before Wilson wasn't a fair statement.
However, if he'd had more than just 2 years without Wilson, I'd agree. But even in those 2 Wilson-less years he way exceeded expectations while turning over a very crappy team and building it very quickly into a SB champion team. Wilson was the final piece and not the most important piece at that. He wasn't even the most important piece on offense back then. That's not a slight on him nor a dismissal of his contribution, but that offense worked because of Lynch. For today's version of the team though, Wilson is clearly the most important and the team should be built to work around his skill set, not run as if we still had a generational workhorse RB or pigeonholed into a formulaic offense.
By your same reasoning, it would be fair to say Wilson has had zero wins in the NFL without Carroll.
