Given that 12 personnel had a better percentage of successful plays (both run and pass) than 11 personnel in the old offense, I can't wait to see what this group of tight ends can do in this new offense.
Bring it on :2thumbs:
TEs will ‘create a lot of problems’ for opposing defenses
- Thread starter Jville
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Given that 12 personnel had a better percentage of successful plays (both run and pass) than 11 personnel in the old offense, I can't wait to see what this group of tight ends can do in this new offense.
Bring it on :2thumbs:
CalgaryFan05
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I'm not a 100% 'convinced' that the new OC with TE heavy stuff is really the answer to our offensive problems - but, hey - I guess copycat what the other teams are doing and hope that we can implement it -
The MOST TELLING quote that I head from Dissly (who i like other than the injury bug) is that it was the first time i 2 years that "I didn't have to re-teach myself to WALK prior to the season". OMG.
I think if we have a good try at the whole TE formations/plays thing that we might see some joy out of it - I do know that I was pissed when Dissly went down the last couple years. Especially last year.
So, trailer-park-boys style - I think it's like 1/2 personnel, 1/2 OC, 1/2 implementation of the new scheme.
Here's hoping I guess. If you're gonna 'use' TE personnel for more - let's hope to God it's better implemented than WTF they tried to do with Graham.
I don't think the TE's need to 'trade secrets'. I think Russ needs to see them (or any other receiver) in the checkdown/crossing routes. That's the problem from last year IMO.
I'm not sour on it - just waitin' and seein' - :0190l:
The MOST TELLING quote that I head from Dissly (who i like other than the injury bug) is that it was the first time i 2 years that "I didn't have to re-teach myself to WALK prior to the season". OMG.
I think if we have a good try at the whole TE formations/plays thing that we might see some joy out of it - I do know that I was pissed when Dissly went down the last couple years. Especially last year.
So, trailer-park-boys style - I think it's like 1/2 personnel, 1/2 OC, 1/2 implementation of the new scheme.
Here's hoping I guess. If you're gonna 'use' TE personnel for more - let's hope to God it's better implemented than WTF they tried to do with Graham.
I don't think the TE's need to 'trade secrets'. I think Russ needs to see them (or any other receiver) in the checkdown/crossing routes. That's the problem from last year IMO.
I'm not sour on it - just waitin' and seein' - :0190l:
Seahawker86
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I am just so excited for this new offense as a whole. If Jared Goff can take this offensive scheme to a SB then we can only imagine what Russell and company are capable of doing
ivotuk
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JAKE AND STACY
Hour 3 - Seahawks TE Will Dissly!
Seahawks tight end Will Dissly joins the show to discuss his offseason, the new offense under Shane Waldron, and more. Then, is Pete Carroll's philosophy maximizing Russell Wilson in his prime? Or has Russell Wilson outgrown Pete Carroll's philosophy? We end the show with What I Need to Know.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/category ... +and+Stacy
Hour 3 - Seahawks TE Will Dissly!
Seahawks tight end Will Dissly joins the show to discuss his offseason, the new offense under Shane Waldron, and more. Then, is Pete Carroll's philosophy maximizing Russell Wilson in his prime? Or has Russell Wilson outgrown Pete Carroll's philosophy? We end the show with What I Need to Know.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/category ... +and+Stacy
I'm not expecting too much to change here because the Rams had nearly identical personnel groupings to us last season.
The 2020 Seahawks were 66% 11 personnel and 28% 12 personnel.
The 2020 Rams were 65% 11 personnel and 29% 12 personnel.
Percentage play success will remain good in 12 personnel because we (should) have plenty of high completion % short passes worked in. I suspect we'll take more shots out of 11 personnel and so the completion rate will be lower, but the effectiveness could be higher. The Eskridge package should also boost the success rate of 11 personnel as I expect he will be getting a lot of handoffs and short outs as a rookie.
A better way to compare these formations would be ANY/A (adjusted net yards per pass attempt) which is YPA increased by TDs and decreased by sacks and INTs. We should see similar ANY/A for each formation we run in bulk if we are running each personnel grouping to the point of maximum efficiency.
The 2020 Seahawks were 66% 11 personnel and 28% 12 personnel.
The 2020 Rams were 65% 11 personnel and 29% 12 personnel.
Percentage play success will remain good in 12 personnel because we (should) have plenty of high completion % short passes worked in. I suspect we'll take more shots out of 11 personnel and so the completion rate will be lower, but the effectiveness could be higher. The Eskridge package should also boost the success rate of 11 personnel as I expect he will be getting a lot of handoffs and short outs as a rookie.
A better way to compare these formations would be ANY/A (adjusted net yards per pass attempt) which is YPA increased by TDs and decreased by sacks and INTs. We should see similar ANY/A for each formation we run in bulk if we are running each personnel grouping to the point of maximum efficiency.
chris98251
Well-known member
I expect more Rams philosophy, they had that offense give the same look but being able to run 16 or so different plays out of every look. Thats what made it work, you didn't know based on who was on the field what kind of play call it was going to be.
We on the other hand give the defense a paint by numbers diagram of every play before it happened, and then waited till 0:01 to snap that ball.
We on the other hand give the defense a paint by numbers diagram of every play before it happened, and then waited till 0:01 to snap that ball.
oldhawkfan
Well-known member
Can someone please explain the difference between 11 personnel and 12 personnel? My first thought in reading this was who would be more successful…the 11 players on the field or the 12s in the stands.
oldhawkfan":i7ac887x said:
Sure ........ the first digit denotes the number of running backs and the second digit denotes the number of tight ends.
So 11 personnel consists of one running back and one tight end with an understood balance of 3 wide receivers making up the 5 man group the quarterback has to work with.
12 personnel consists of one running back and two tight ends with the remaining balance consisting of 2 wide receivers.
oldhawkfan
Well-known member
Jville":2p8zsfge said:
Thanks Jville! Is this something new? I’ve never seen this before.
oldhawkfan":l00mnheo said:
It has been around for ever it seems. But, it is something infrequently addressed by the media. Rather, it's something coaches, players and X & O fanatics look at a lot.
[urltargetblank]https://insidethe49.com/football-101/offensive-personnel-packages-nfl/[/urltargetblank]
Understanding Football Offensive Personnel Packages >>> [urltargetblank]http://insidethepylon.com/film-study/film-study-nfl/offense-film-study-nfl/2014/09/08/understanding-football-offensive-personnel-packages/[/urltargetblank]
chris98251
Well-known member
Jville":3lbfqswu said:oldhawkfan":3lbfqswu said:
It has been around for ever it seems. But, it is something infrequently addressed by the media. Rather, it's something coaches, players and X & O fanatics look at a lot.
[urltargetblank]https://insidethe49.com/football-101/offensive-personnel-packages-nfl/[/urltargetblank]
Understanding Football Offensive Personnel Packages >>> [urltargetblank]http://insidethepylon.com/film-study/film-study-nfl/offense-film-study-nfl/2014/09/08/understanding-football-offensive-personnel-packages/[/urltargetblank]
They just called it something different, 3 wide, 4 wide, split back, I formation single set, Goal line used to be the term for 2 TE sets or Heavy. and then there was standard offense with 2 wide's or a Wide and a Slot, 1 TE a FB and a RB.
I find it helpful to differentiate between personnel groupings and football formations. Examples of offensive formations include shot gun formation, I formation, single back formation, Pro Set, Bunch formation ..... ect.chris98251":2h5yzjow said:Jville":2h5yzjow said:oldhawkfan":2h5yzjow said:
It has been around for ever it seems. But, it is something infrequently addressed by the media. Rather, it's something coaches, players and X & O fanatics look at a lot.
[urltargetblank]https://insidethe49.com/football-101/offensive-personnel-packages-nfl/[/urltargetblank]
Understanding Football Offensive Personnel Packages >>> [urltargetblank]http://insidethepylon.com/film-study/film-study-nfl/offense-film-study-nfl/2014/09/08/understanding-football-offensive-personnel-packages/[/urltargetblank]
They just called it something different, 3 wide, 4 wide, split back, I formation single set, Goal line used to be the term for 2 TE sets or Heavy. and then there was standard offense with 2 wide's or a Wide and a Slot, 1 TE a FB and a RB.
For example .... a single back formation can be maned by multiple personnel groupings .....
Two WRs split wide with two TEs on each side of the line. (12 personnel)
Three WRs with one in “the slot” between the Tackle and the WR, and one TE. (11 personnel)
Four WRs and zero TEs. (10 personnel)
And like wise, a specific personnel group can be lined up into multiple formations and then shifted into multiple formations.
It's the combination of formations and personnel groupings in search of mismatches where things become interesting. This year should be full of intrigue. :2thumbs: And tight ends should have a most interesting role.
If Carroll stays away, Seattle could have the best offense in the NFL. I expect Carroll will demand to run the ball more regardless of the opponent and IMO that would be a mistake.
All things being equal, McVay likes a 50/50 split - but if you watch the Bucs/Rams Monday night game from this year, or just look at the stats, he likes to attack where a defense is weak. We barely tried to run on Tampa.
Should be interesting to see how good Waldron is as a play caller too. Another McVay assistant to luck into more talent than he's ever had on offense (counting the QB).
Also not sure if y'all remember, but if you want to get both excited and nervous about Everett, check out the Rams/Seahawks Thursday game from 2019. Shows both the potential and frustration that we had with him.
All things being equal, McVay likes a 50/50 split - but if you watch the Bucs/Rams Monday night game from this year, or just look at the stats, he likes to attack where a defense is weak. We barely tried to run on Tampa.
Should be interesting to see how good Waldron is as a play caller too. Another McVay assistant to luck into more talent than he's ever had on offense (counting the QB).
Also not sure if y'all remember, but if you want to get both excited and nervous about Everett, check out the Rams/Seahawks Thursday game from 2019. Shows both the potential and frustration that we had with him.
Ramfan128":1xo81u4t said:
Helpful perspectives ..... thanks for posting.
My thought is that criticism of Carroll as well as current praise for McVay is a bit over done. It's common for coaches to feed the media that 50/50 split preference. But, actuals say otherwise.
Out of 11 personnel Rams were 33% run & 67% pass pass plays with an overall success rate of 53% in 2020. By comparison, Seahawks were 36% run & 64% pass with an overall play success rate of 48%.
Out of 12 personnel Rams were 63% run & 37% pass plays with an overall play success rate of 50%. By comparison, Seahawks were 47% run & 53% pass with an overall play success rate of 62%.
I didn't address 13 personnel in the poll. Interesting that the Rams used 13 personnel 4 times as often but with less play success than the Seahawks with that personnel group.
I looking forward to seeing the #3 & #4 tight ends in action during preseason. I think they can help expand the play book.
Jville":3ft9xtqx said:
I think Carroll is a good head coach. But it seems to me, from an outside perspective - that he wants to play a certain way and doesn't always adjust. I remember Seattle playing three LBs against our 11 personnel quite a bit a few years ago and the results were predictable. He's also subjected Wilson to Aaron Donald twice a year - three times last year - with mostly sub-par interior offensive lines. IIRC, the Rams have accounted for 20% of Wilson's sacks.
FWIW I think McVay is only praised where Carroll is criticized because McVays has had success offensively where Carrolls defenses have stepped back the past few seasons. I think they're both top coaches overall.
ClutchDJ
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You’ve been riding for Seattle so hard during your time here that I be forgetting you’re a Rams fan.Ramfan128":1a2azdpf said:
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