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Waldron needs to go, he is the worst coach on the team

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  • It was a nice try a guess (although not worth the risk) but he is clearly in way way over his head. Norton is bad, but with Bevell or Schottenheimer this team would be better than 3-7.
    andyh64000
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  • andyh64000 wrote:It was a nice try a guess (although not worth the risk) but he is clearly in way way over his head. Norton is bad, but with Bevell or Schottenheimer this team would be better than 3-7.



    Are you sure? PC would still be the coach. This offense will never be more than what it is as long as PC is coach. Even before Wilson this is what it was.
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  • andyh64000 wrote:It was a nice try a guess (although not worth the risk) but he is clearly in way way over his head. Norton is bad, but with Bevell or Schottenheimer this team would be better than 3-7.


    You're kidding. Right?

    Our coaching has been complete crap before he even came to the Hawks. I don't think we even know what we have in him as PC is still calling the shots.
    kf3339
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  • kf3339 wrote:
    andyh64000 wrote:It was a nice try a guess (although not worth the risk) but he is clearly in way way over his head. Norton is bad, but with Bevell or Schottenheimer this team would be better than 3-7.


    You're kidding. Right?

    Our coaching has been complete crap before he even came to the Hawks. I don't think we even know what we have in him as PC is still calling the shots.


    Show me a 9 game stretch in Seahawk offensive history worse that what has happened beginning with game 2.
    andyh64000
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  • It's clear that Waldron is in over his head.

    He's the middle man between Wilson and Carroll. He is only here to call the plays Carroll approved, and is not capable of holding Wilson accountable.
    Jerhawk
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  • Jerhawk wrote:It's clear that Waldron is in over his head.

    He's the middle man between Wilson and Carroll. He is only here to call the plays Carroll approved, and is not capable of holding Wilson accountable.

    I don't think Pete is capable of holding him accountable, either. Seemed to be part of the issue the LoB had in those last seasons.
    pinksheets
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  • andyh64000 wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    andyh64000 wrote:It was a nice try a guess (although not worth the risk) but he is clearly in way way over his head. Norton is bad, but with Bevell or Schottenheimer this team would be better than 3-7.


    You're kidding. Right?

    Our coaching has been complete crap before he even came to the Hawks. I don't think we even know what we have in him as PC is still calling the shots.


    Show me a 9 game stretch in Seahawk offensive history worse that what has happened beginning with game 2.
    kf3339
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  • kf3339 wrote:
    andyh64000 wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    andyh64000 wrote:It was a nice try a guess (although not worth the risk) but he is clearly in way way over his head. Norton is bad, but with Bevell or Schottenheimer this team would be better than 3-7.


    You're kidding. Right?

    Our coaching has been complete crap before he even came to the Hawks. I don't think we even know what we have in him as PC is still calling the shots.


    Show me a 9 game stretch in Seahawk offensive history worse that what has happened beginning with game 2.


    Worst in Seahawk history, or just with PC as our HC?

    Also, what changed from game one this year to the next few games before RW was hurt. Same OC, QB and offensive players. The difference? PC.
    kf3339
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  • kf3339 wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    andyh64000 wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    You're kidding. Right?

    Our coaching has been complete crap before he even came to the Hawks. I don't think we even know what we have in him as PC is still calling the shots.


    Show me a 9 game stretch in Seahawk offensive history worse that what has happened beginning with game 2.


    Worst in Seahawk history, or just with PC as our HC?

    Also, what changed from game one this year to the next few games before RW was hurt. Same OC, QB and offensive players. The difference? PC.


    1992 was historically the worst not only in Hawks history but in NFL history. Stan Gellbaugh was a disaster. Not even close.
    seabowl
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  • Waldron calls a decent game. So did Schotty.

    The problem is that the keys to the kingdo (on offense) have been given to Russ. He hatches the gamelan with Waldron. AND he has full control to change plays at the line, which he does constantly.

    So you can't evaluate is what the original play was vs what Russ changed it to.

    You can certainly fault Pete for not putting th Kabash on the BS play and execution and mandating that the play that Waldron calls is what gets run or that the audibles are limited.

    But its a catch 22. Because I think Russ is so uncomfortable with the basics of the playbook that if you take away what he can do and make him run the plan, it will actually be worse.

    But you can certainly go back and look at the plays we run that fail and see that a great many of them actually would work if the QB knew where to go with the ball.
    keasley45
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  • kf3339 wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    andyh64000 wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    You're kidding. Right?

    Our coaching has been complete crap before he even came to the Hawks. I don't think we even know what we have in him as PC is still calling the shots.


    Show me a 9 game stretch in Seahawk offensive history worse that what has happened beginning with game 2.


    Worst in Seahawk history, or just with PC as our HC?

    Also, what changed from game one this year to the next few games before RW was hurt. Same OC, QB and offensive players. The difference? PC.


    The lead running back has been injured the primary first round pick backup Penny continues to stay injury prone and then ext option Collins has played injured. Therefore a missing running game . Waldron so far has shown no improvement over last season Seahawk offense. The offense continues to have third down conversion issues due lacking a running game. The offense primarily relies on big plays from Lockett and Metcalf. Pass protection remains a perennial problem, potential playmakers Homer and Dissly do not get enough snaps. Dissly is better than Everet and Homer is the best receiver out of the backfield. Play these guys as it is clear changes are required. Finally the defense continues to allow long drives. This group cannot play the cover 3 zone like very well certainly not even close to the Superbowl teams combine that with an offense that has third down trouble and time of possession becomes a huge problem!
    tersal
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  • kf3339 wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    andyh64000 wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    You're kidding. Right?

    Our coaching has been complete crap before he even came to the Hawks. I don't think we even know what we have in him as PC is still calling the shots.


    Show me a 9 game stretch in Seahawk offensive history worse that what has happened beginning with game 2.


    Worst in Seahawk history, or just with PC as our HC?

    Also, what changed from game one this year to the next few games before RW was hurt. Same OC, QB and offensive players. The difference? PC.


    The lead running back has been injured the primary first round pick backup Penny continues to stay injury prone and then ext option Collins has played injured. Therefore a missing running game . Waldron so far has shown no improvement over last season Seahawk offense. The offense continues to have third down conversion issues due lacking a running game. The offense primarily relies on big plays from Lockett and Metcalf. Pass protection remains a perennial problem, potential playmakers Homer and Dissly do not get enough snaps. Dissly is better than Everet and Homer is the best receiver out of the backfield. Play these guys as it is clear changes are required. Finally the defense continues to allow long drives. This group cannot play the cover 3 zone like very well certainly not even close to the Superbowl teams combine that with an offense that has third down trouble and time of possession becomes a huge problem!
    tersal
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  • Folks. What's happening now is what a great many people on this board said would happen last offseason when the other half thought it was all the fault of a conservative Pete or ineffective Schotty when it obvious then, especially after the Rams loss, that it wouldn't matter what playbwas called or who the coordinator was if Russ didn't play better.

    And here we are a year on and we are running the offense we would have run had Pete not pulled the plug on the nonsense mid season last year. It's all now simply a continuation of the exposing of Russel that entered its final character at week 8 last year.

    No HC will fix it. No OC can fix it. Russ is who he is, and his bag of tricks is just about empty.
    keasley45
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  • tersal wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    andyh64000 wrote:
    Show me a 9 game stretch in Seahawk offensive history worse that what has happened beginning with game 2.




    Worst in Seahawk history, or just with PC as our HC?

    Also, what changed from game one this year to the next few games before RW was hurt. Same OC, QB and offensive players. The difference? PC.


    The lead running back has been injured the primary first round pick backup Penny continues to stay injury prone and then ext option Collins has played injured. Therefore a missing running game . Waldron so far has shown no improvement over last season Seahawk offense. The offense continues to have third down conversion issues due lacking a running game. The offense primarily relies on big plays from Lockett and Metcalf. Pass protection remains a perennial problem, potential playmakers Homer and Dissly do not get enough snaps. Dissly is better than Everet and Homer is the best receiver out of the backfield. Play these guys as it is clear changes are required. Finally the defense continues to allow long drives. This group cannot play the cover 3 zone like very well certainly not even close to the Superbowl teams combine that with an offense that has third down trouble and time of possession becomes a huge problem!


    Bro, this isn't Waldrons fault. He actually dialing up some good stuff. The ball just isn't getting there. And it's all made worse with injury and drops.
    keasley45
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  • keasley45 wrote:Folks. What's happening now is what a great many people on this board said would happen last offseason when the other half thought it was all the fault of a conservative Pete or ineffective Schotty when it obvious then, especially after the Rams loss, that it wouldn't matter what playbwas called or who the coordinator was if Russ didn't play better.

    And here we are a year on and we are running the offense we would have run had Pete not pulled the plug on the nonsense mid season last year. It's all now simply a continuation of the exposing of Russel that entered its final character at week 8 last year.

    No HC will fix it. No OC can fix it. Russ is who he is, and his bag of tricks is just about empty.


    Are you talking about the same Wilson who has had Quarterbacked this organization to 8 playoff appearances in nine years, the same one who led this team to its only Superbowl win. Russ is proven he is not the problem better pass protection would help. Also The Hawks defense gave up another 413 yards against the Cardinals. Last I checked Quarterbacks do not play defense.
    tersal
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  • tersal wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:Folks. What's happening now is what a great many people on this board said would happen last offseason when the other half thought it was all the fault of a conservative Pete or ineffective Schotty when it obvious then, especially after the Rams loss, that it wouldn't matter what playbwas called or who the coordinator was if Russ didn't play better.

    And here we are a year on and we are running the offense we would have run had Pete not pulled the plug on the nonsense mid season last year. It's all now simply a continuation of the exposing of Russel that entered its final character at week 8 last year.

    No HC will fix it. No OC can fix it. Russ is who he is, and his bag of tricks is just about empty.


    Are you talking about the same Wilson who has had Quarterbacked this organization to 8 playoff appearances in nine years, the same one who led this team to its only Superbowl win. Russ is proven he is not the problem better pass protection would help. Also The Hawks defense gave up another 413 yards against the Cardinals. Last I checked Quarterbacks do not play defense.


    Absolutely the same guy who performed EXACTLY THE SAME way often during our superbowl runs until he gave uptrying to read defenses and manufactured plays on his own. Off script, scrambling QBs like Tarkenton,Flutie, even Jackson now have a limited serviceability once their ability to manufacture on their own is diminished. The same inability that Russ showed today, he exhibited earlier this year and last year and since he hasn't had a running game and defense to stand behind. He's great at extending plays ( what he did today) and not great at making plays within the playbook.

    Jesus. You know what, when Marshawn Lynch, arguably the most successful and game changing back we've had couldn't do it anymore, itbwould have be asinine to argue not letting him go because of what he did for us BEFORE. His best was in the past. Thanks, good luck. Good bye.

    Russ is figured out. But keep blaming everybody but him. And go ahead and watch what happens when he's on his next team.

    He was gifted with a situation where his HC scripted a strategy to allow him to flourish despite his shortcomings. And since he's demanded that he be allowed to call things the way he wants, his struggles are obvious and all he does is what he knows. The deep pass, forcing balls to playmakers that don't make sense, and scrambling from the pocket when it's been proven time and again that'd it's not necessary.
    keasley45
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  • Ahhhhhh yes another red herring OC coach firing.
    BamKam
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  • tersal wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:Folks. What's happening now is what a great many people on this board said would happen last offseason when the other half thought it was all the fault of a conservative Pete or ineffective Schotty when it obvious then, especially after the Rams loss, that it wouldn't matter what playbwas called or who the coordinator was if Russ didn't play better.

    And here we are a year on and we are running the offense we would have run had Pete not pulled the plug on the nonsense mid season last year. It's all now simply a continuation of the exposing of Russel that entered its final character at week 8 last year.

    No HC will fix it. No OC can fix it. Russ is who he is, and his bag of tricks is just about empty.


    Are you talking about the same Wilson who has had Quarterbacked this organization to 8 playoff appearances in nine years, the same one who led this team to its only Superbowl win. Russ is proven he is not the problem better pass protection would help. Also The Hawks defense gave up another 413 yards against the Cardinals. Last I checked Quarterbacks do not play defense.


    No, but they can keep the defense off the field so they/re not gassed from a 2 to 1 TOP ratio.
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  • Russ needs to throw to the open man. That my friend is the problem
    seabowl
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  • tersal wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:Folks. What's happening now is what a great many people on this board said would happen last offseason when the other half thought it was all the fault of a conservative Pete or ineffective Schotty when it obvious then, especially after the Rams loss, that it wouldn't matter what playbwas called or who the coordinator was if Russ didn't play better.

    And here we are a year on and we are running the offense we would have run had Pete not pulled the plug on the nonsense mid season last year. It's all now simply a continuation of the exposing of Russel that entered its final character at week 8 last year.

    No HC will fix it. No OC can fix it. Russ is who he is, and his bag of tricks is just about empty.


    Are you talking about the same Wilson who has had Quarterbacked this organization to 8 playoff appearances in nine years, the same one who led this team to its only Superbowl win. Russ is proven he is not the problem better pass protection would help. Also The Hawks defense gave up another 413 yards against the Cardinals. Last I checked Quarterbacks do not play defense.



    And sorry but the only thing that got us to those superbowls was the fact that we had a defense and a running game that could keep games pretty much to a stalemate. Both seasons, our running game and defense were tops or near tops in the league. Our passing game...not so much. Efficient, yes. But we've never won anything important when the identity of this team was built on Russ's arm.
    keasley45
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  • The list of excuses to avoid blaming $30m Mr. Unlimited:

    Head Coach
    OC 1,2 and now 3. We need a fourth now?
    Oline coach 1 and 2
    Receivers aren't getting open!
    The routes are too long to develop!
    The O-line!
    Carl Smith left!
    The defense can't get off the field and give Russ the ball!
    We have no run game!

    I've been divorced 4 times but it's not my fault, my spouses were just crazy. Maybe my next Wife will work out.
    FloridaSeahawk18
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  • FloridaSeahawk18 wrote:The list of excuses to avoid blaming $30m Mr. Unlimited:

    Head Coach
    OC 1,2 and now 3. We need a fourth now?
    Oline coach 1 and 2
    Receivers aren't getting open!
    The routes are too long to develop!
    The O-line!
    Carl Smith left!
    The defense can't get off the field and give Russ the ball!
    We have no run game!

    I've been divorced 4 times but it's not my fault, my spouses were just crazy. Maybe my next Wife will work out.


    Lmao
    keasley45
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  • tersal wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    andyh64000 wrote:
    Show me a 9 game stretch in Seahawk offensive history worse that what has happened beginning with game 2.


    Worst in Seahawk history, or just with PC as our HC?

    Also, what changed from game one this year to the next few games before RW was hurt. Same OC, QB and offensive players. The difference? PC.


    The lead running back has been injured the primary first round pick backup Penny continues to stay injury prone and then ext option Collins has played injured. Therefore a missing running game . Waldron so far has shown no improvement over last season Seahawk offense. The offense continues to have third down conversion issues due lacking a running game. The offense primarily relies on big plays from Lockett and Metcalf. Pass protection remains a perennial problem, potential playmakers Homer and Dissly do not get enough snaps. Dissly is better than Everet and Homer is the best receiver out of the backfield. Play these guys as it is clear changes are required. Finally the defense continues to allow long drives. This group cannot play the cover 3 zone like very well certainly not even close to the Superbowl teams combine that with an offense that has third down trouble and time of possession becomes a huge problem!



    This^^^
    John63
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  • keasley45 wrote:
    tersal wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:Folks. What's happening now is what a great many people on this board said would happen last offseason when the other half thought it was all the fault of a conservative Pete or ineffective Schotty when it obvious then, especially after the Rams loss, that it wouldn't matter what playbwas called or who the coordinator was if Russ didn't play better.

    And here we are a year on and we are running the offense we would have run had Pete not pulled the plug on the nonsense mid season last year. It's all now simply a continuation of the exposing of Russel that entered its final character at week 8 last year.

    No HC will fix it. No OC can fix it. Russ is who he is, and his bag of tricks is just about empty.


    Are you talking about the same Wilson who has had Quarterbacked this organization to 8 playoff appearances in nine years, the same one who led this team to its only Superbowl win. Russ is proven he is not the problem better pass protection would help. Also The Hawks defense gave up another 413 yards against the Cardinals. Last I checked Quarterbacks do not play defense.


    Absolutely the same guy who performed EXACTLY THE SAME way often during our superbowl runs until he gave uptrying to read defenses and manufactured plays on his own. Off script, scrambling QBs like Tarkenton,Flutie, even Jackson now have a limited serviceability once their ability to manufacture on their own is diminished. The same inability that Russ showed today, he exhibited earlier this year and last year and since he hasn't had a running game and defense to stand behind. He's great at extending plays ( what he did today) and not great at making plays within the playbook.

    Jesus. You know what, when Marshawn Lynch, arguably the most successful and game changing back we've had couldn't do it anymore, itbwould have be asinine to argue not letting him go because of what he did for us BEFORE. His best was in the past. Thanks, good luck. Good bye.

    Russ is figured out. But keep blaming everybody but him. And go ahead and watch what happens when he's on his next team.

    He was gifted with a situation where his HC scripted a strategy to allow him to flourish despite his shortcomings. And since he's demanded that he be allowed to call things the way he wants, his struggles are obvious and all he does is what he knows. The deep pass, forcing balls to playmakers that don't make sense, and scrambling from the pocket when it's been proven time and again that'd it's not necessary.
    tersal
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  • There have been a handful of plays each game this year that haven't sat right with me and lead to me think that one of either Waldron or Russ is not fully understanding situational football and perhaps overthinking things.

    Today, with first and goal at the end of the half and 1:20 remaining it was inexcusable in my view to call three straight passes into the end zone. Normally I'm of the mind that no play can ever be un-callable in a vacuum, but there are many safe passes that would still run clock and force the Cardinals to burn one of their timeouts. If this remotely resembled 'PeteBall' like some suggest then we would have run three times up the middle there and that would have been far better outcome than what we saw. Even a single run/screen pass/quick out would likely have prevented the Cardinals from basically stealing a whole possession like that.

    That being said, there's no point to firing Waldron tomorrow unless you know about a good unemployed OC that I don't. Or benching Russ for that matter, since going forwards we need to evaluate whether Waldron and Russ can be an effective partnership.

    A significant part of the problem looks to be inexperience. On Waldron's part as a first time OC and first time play caller, on Dickerson's part as a first time run game coordinator, and on all of the player's parts as they try to get familiar with a new passing scheme and new rushing scheme. Blowing it up now just for the sake of change will just lead to more inexperience.

    There are seven more games for the entire offense to start looking dramatically better. If that doesn't happen then I do expect major changes in the off-season that could involve every player and every coach. How a team is trending is enormously important in the NFL and the rest of the season will have huge implications on what we do going forwards.
    Last edited by AgentDib on Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    AgentDib
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  • John63 wrote:
    tersal wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:


    Worst in Seahawk history, or just with PC as our HC?

    Also, what changed from game one this year to the next few games before RW was hurt. Same OC, QB and offensive players. The difference? PC.


    The lead running back has been injured the primary first round pick backup Penny continues to stay injury prone and then ext option Collins has played injured. Therefore a missing running game . Waldron so far has shown no improvement over last season Seahawk offense. The offense continues to have third down conversion issues due lacking a running game. The offense primarily relies on big plays from Lockett and Metcalf. Pass protection remains a perennial problem, potential playmakers Homer and Dissly do not get enough snaps. Dissly is better than Everet and Homer is the best receiver out of the backfield. Play these guys as it is clear changes are required. Finally the defense continues to allow long drives. This group cannot play the cover 3 zone like very well certainly not even close to the Superbowl teams combine that with an offense that has third down trouble and time of possession becomes a huge problem!



    This^^^


    Can you show some evidence that it's Waldron not being capable and not Wilson not executing? I'd genuinely be interested to understand. Because when you look at the coaches tape that certainly doesn't look to be true.
    keasley45
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  • Waldron is not the problem. We have had 4 qbs play here under PC. We have had 3 OCs. Every qb has been amongst the most sacked. Every team has had offenses that struggle at times. Every team has had alot of close games. And every season there is talk of PCs influence on the offense. The common denominator is PC. PC himself admitted without Wilson.

    That said Wilson did not play great, he played better than last week. And will play better next week. Buy as long as PC is here this offense will never reach its potential.
    John63
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  • tersal wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:
    tersal wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:Folks. What's happening now is what a great many people on this board said would happen last offseason when the other half thought it was all the fault of a conservative Pete or ineffective Schotty when it obvious then, especially after the Rams loss, that it wouldn't matter what playbwas called or who the coordinator was if Russ didn't play better.

    And here we are a year on and we are running the offense we would have run had Pete not pulled the plug on the nonsense mid season last year. It's all now simply a continuation of the exposing of Russel that entered its final character at week 8 last year.

    No HC will fix it. No OC can fix it. Russ is who he is, and his bag of tricks is just about empty.


    Are you talking about the same Wilson who has had Quarterbacked this organization to 8 playoff appearances in nine years, the same one who led this team to its only Superbowl win. Russ is proven he is not the problem better pass protection would help. Also The Hawks defense gave up another 413 yards against the Cardinals. Last I checked Quarterbacks do not play defense.


    Absolutely the same guy who performed EXACTLY THE SAME way often during our superbowl runs until he gave uptrying to read defenses and manufactured plays on his own. Off script, scrambling QBs like Tarkenton,Flutie, even Jackson now have a limited serviceability once their ability to manufacture on their own is diminished. The same inability that Russ showed today, he exhibited earlier this year and last year and since he hasn't had a running game and defense to stand behind. He's great at extending plays ( what he did today) and not great at making plays within the playbook.

    Jesus. You know what, when Marshawn Lynch, arguably the most successful and game changing back we've had couldn't do it anymore, itbwould have be asinine to argue not letting him go because of what he did for us BEFORE. His best was in the past. Thanks, good luck. Good bye.

    Russ is figured out. But keep blaming everybody but him. And go ahead and watch what happens when he's on his next team.

    He was gifted with a situation where his HC scripted a strategy to allow him to flourish despite his shortcomings. And since he's demanded that he be allowed to call things the way he wants, his struggles are obvious and all he does is what he knows. The deep pass, forcing balls to playmakers that don't make sense, and scrambling from the pocket when it's been proven time and again that'd it's not necessary.


    Not sure where you are getting your this opinion from however, the facts do not support it. 101.8 career QB rating 277 Touchdown passes against just 84 interceptions I would say the facts state Russ reads defenses just fine. The facts support that statement. Russ should have been the number one pick in his draft.
    tersal
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  • keasley45 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    tersal wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    Worst in Seahawk history, or just with PC as our HC?

    Also, what changed from game one this year to the next few games before RW was hurt. Same OC, QB and offensive players. The difference? PC.


    The lead running back has been injured the primary first round pick backup Penny continues to stay injury prone and then ext option Collins has played injured. Therefore a missing running game . Waldron so far has shown no improvement over last season Seahawk offense. The offense continues to have third down conversion issues due lacking a running game. The offense primarily relies on big plays from Lockett and Metcalf. Pass protection remains a perennial problem, potential playmakers Homer and Dissly do not get enough snaps. Dissly is better than Everet and Homer is the best receiver out of the backfield. Play these guys as it is clear changes are required. Finally the defense continues to allow long drives. This group cannot play the cover 3 zone like very well certainly not even close to the Superbowl teams combine that with an offense that has third down trouble and time of possession becomes a huge problem!



    This^^^


    Can you show some evidence that it's Waldron not being capable and not Wilson not executing? I'd genuinely be interested to understand. Because when you look at the coaches tape that certainly doesn't look to be true.


    THE OFFENSE DOESNT RELY ON BIG PLAYS FROM LOCKETT AND DK, RUSSEL DOES. THE OFFENSE WOULD ACTUALLY BE FINE RUNNING WITH A HEALTHY MIX OF OTHER PASSES BUT THEY SIMPLY ARENT MADE.

    and the running game was averaging 6ypc last I checked to close out the first half.
    keasley45
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  • tersal wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:Folks. What's happening now is what a great many people on this board said would happen last offseason when the other half thought it was all the fault of a conservative Pete or ineffective Schotty when it obvious then, especially after the Rams loss, that it wouldn't matter what playbwas called or who the coordinator was if Russ didn't play better.

    And here we are a year on and we are running the offense we would have run had Pete not pulled the plug on the nonsense mid season last year. It's all now simply a continuation of the exposing of Russel that entered its final character at week 8 last year.

    No HC will fix it. No OC can fix it. Russ is who he is, and his bag of tricks is just about empty.



    Are you talking about the same Wilson who has had Quarterbacked this organization to 8 playoff appearances in nine years, the same one who led this team to its only Superbowl win. Russ is proven he is not the problem better pass protection would help. Also The Hawks defense gave up another 413 yards against the Cardinals. Last I checked Quarterbacks do not play defense.


    The offense is dead last in plays per game, TOP per game, and 30th in 3rd down conversions.

    The defense however is top 10 in 3rd down conversions, The defense is not the issue.

    The offense is entirely the problem. The problem with the offense is not taking what the defense gives, which is mostly on Russ, partially on the o-line.
    JGreen79
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    Posts: 949
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  • FloridaSeahawk18 wrote:The list of excuses to avoid blaming $30m Mr. Unlimited:

    Head Coach
    OC 1,2 and now 3. We need a fourth now?
    Oline coach 1 and 2
    Receivers aren't getting open!
    The routes are too long to develop!
    The O-line!
    Carl Smith left!
    The defense can't get off the field and give Russ the ball!
    We have no run game!

    I've been divorced 4 times but it's not my fault, my spouses were just crazy. Maybe my next Wife will work out.


    Humor is most welcome on evenings such as tonight.

    They brought Carl Smith back this year after Mr Beyond Criticism overcooked himself last year. But apparently, Carl no longer has sufficient influence as he has yet to succeed in getting Mr. Beyond Criticism back on track. So I guess Carl should remain on the list.

    Carl Smith returned >>> https://www.seahawks.com/team/coaches-roster/carl-smith
    Jville
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    Posts: 10765
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  • John63 wrote:
    tersal wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:


    Worst in Seahawk history, or just with PC as our HC?

    Also, what changed from game one this year to the next few games before RW was hurt. Same OC, QB and offensive players. The difference? PC.


    The lead running back has been injured the primary first round pick backup Penny continues to stay injury prone and then ext option Collins has played injured. Therefore a missing running game . Waldron so far has shown no improvement over last season Seahawk offense. The offense continues to have third down conversion issues due lacking a running game. The offense primarily relies on big plays from Lockett and Metcalf. Pass protection remains a perennial problem, potential playmakers Homer and Dissly do not get enough snaps. Dissly is better than Everet and Homer is the best receiver out of the backfield. Play these guys as it is clear changes are required. Finally the defense continues to allow long drives. This group cannot play the cover 3 zone like very well certainly not even close to the Superbowl teams combine that with an offense that has third down trouble and time of possession becomes a huge problem!



    This^^^


    And did I read you correctly that you think Dissly is better than Everett???
    keasley45
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  • The real problem is, this offense is offensive, and has already reached it's potential. Without a major change in execution, it will continue to be same old same old.

    Truly, RW has regressed to the point that he is just a shorter version of Geno.
    seedhawk
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    Posts: 2912
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  • John63 wrote:
    tersal wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:


    Worst in Seahawk history, or just with PC as our HC?

    Also, what changed from game one this year to the next few games before RW was hurt. Same OC, QB and offensive players. The difference? PC.


    The lead running back has been injured the primary first round pick backup Penny continues to stay injury prone and then ext option Collins has played injured. Therefore a missing running game . Waldron so far has shown no improvement over last season Seahawk offense. The offense continues to have third down conversion issues due lacking a running game. The offense primarily relies on big plays from Lockett and Metcalf. Pass protection remains a perennial problem, potential playmakers Homer and Dissly do not get enough snaps. Dissly is better than Everet and Homer is the best receiver out of the backfield. Play these guys as it is clear changes are required. Finally the defense continues to allow long drives. This group cannot play the cover 3 zone like very well certainly not even close to the Superbowl teams combine that with an offense that has third down trouble and time of possession becomes a huge problem!



    This^^^


    What happened to your thousand words rebuttal in defense of Russ? All reduced to a single word cameo, just when all Russ fans turn their lonely eyes on ya?
    toffee
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    Posts: 3677
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  • keasley45 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    tersal wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    Worst in Seahawk history, or just with PC as our HC?

    Also, what changed from game one this year to the next few games before RW was hurt. Same OC, QB and offensive players. The difference? PC.


    The lead running back has been injured the primary first round pick backup Penny continues to stay injury prone and then ext option Collins has played injured. Therefore a missing running game . Waldron so far has shown no improvement over last season Seahawk offense. The offense continues to have third down conversion issues due lacking a running game. The offense primarily relies on big plays from Lockett and Metcalf. Pass protection remains a perennial problem, potential playmakers Homer and Dissly do not get enough snaps. Dissly is better than Everet and Homer is the best receiver out of the backfield. Play these guys as it is clear changes are required. Finally the defense continues to allow long drives. This group cannot play the cover 3 zone like very well certainly not even close to the Superbowl teams combine that with an offense that has third down trouble and time of possession becomes a huge problem!



    This^^^


    And did I read you correctly that you think Dissly is better than Everett???


    Yes Dissly 's problem has been staying healthy last year he split reps with Olsen and Hollister had 24 receptions for 251 yds. This year 13 receptions for 158 yards. Give him more plays please.
    tersal
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  • toffee wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    tersal wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    Worst in Seahawk history, or just with PC as our HC?

    Also, what changed from game one this year to the next few games before RW was hurt. Same OC, QB and offensive players. The difference? PC.


    The lead running back has been injured the primary first round pick backup Penny continues to stay injury prone and then ext option Collins has played injured. Therefore a missing running game . Waldron so far has shown no improvement over last season Seahawk offense. The offense continues to have third down conversion issues due lacking a running game. The offense primarily relies on big plays from Lockett and Metcalf. Pass protection remains a perennial problem, potential playmakers Homer and Dissly do not get enough snaps. Dissly is better than Everet and Homer is the best receiver out of the backfield. Play these guys as it is clear changes are required. Finally the defense continues to allow long drives. This group cannot play the cover 3 zone like very well certainly not even close to the Superbowl teams combine that with an offense that has third down trouble and time of possession becomes a huge problem!



    This^^^


    What happened to your thousand words rebuttal in defense of Russ? All reduced to a single word cameo, just when all Russ fans turn their lonely eyes on ya?


    I will reduce my thousand word rebuttal to this what I wrote earlier:
    Not sure where you are getting your this opinion from however, the facts do not support it. 101.8 career QB rating 277 Touchdown passes against just 84 interceptions I would say the facts state Russ reads defenses just fine. The facts support that statement. Russ should have been the number one pick in his draft.

    Also the Cardinals game was winnable the team finally got in the end zone to get within six points the behind Wilson's passing then the defense failed to get off the field. Allowing the Cardinals to score a TD. Listen know you guys have been waiting nine years to criticize Russ but this season's failure are not the QB. At least not to the extant these anti Russ post are stating this defense allows 401.8 yards a game and far to many time consuming possessions. The offense is struggling due to poor pass protection and running game issues though with Collins getting healthier perhaps they can regain some running game.
    tersal
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    Posts: 244
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  • tersal wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    andyh64000 wrote:
    Show me a 9 game stretch in Seahawk offensive history worse that what has happened beginning with game 2.


    Worst in Seahawk history, or just with PC as our HC?

    Also, what changed from game one this year to the next few games before RW was hurt. Same OC, QB and offensive players. The difference? PC.


    The lead running back has been injured the primary first round pick backup Penny continues to stay injury prone and then ext option Collins has played injured. Therefore a missing running game . Waldron so far has shown no improvement over last season Seahawk offense. The offense continues to have third down conversion issues due lacking a running game. The offense primarily relies on big plays from Lockett and Metcalf. Pass protection remains a perennial problem, potential playmakers Homer and Dissly do not get enough snaps. Dissly is better than Everet and Homer is the best receiver out of the backfield. Play these guys as it is clear changes are required. Finally the defense continues to allow long drives. This group cannot play the cover 3 zone like very well certainly not even close to the Superbowl teams combine that with an offense that has third down trouble and time of possession becomes a huge problem!


    That's $h!t, the running game was averaging almost 6 yards a run today in the first half, Collins may have dings but he is playing lights out, you need to watch football games more and less highlight reels thinking that's normal every down. 4.2 a carry is considered very good as an average also.
    chris98251
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  • tersal wrote:
    toffee wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    tersal wrote:
    The lead running back has been injured the primary first round pick backup Penny continues to stay injury prone and then ext option Collins has played injured. Therefore a missing running game . Waldron so far has shown no improvement over last season Seahawk offense. The offense continues to have third down conversion issues due lacking a running game. The offense primarily relies on big plays from Lockett and Metcalf. Pass protection remains a perennial problem, potential playmakers Homer and Dissly do not get enough snaps. Dissly is better than Everet and Homer is the best receiver out of the backfield. Play these guys as it is clear changes are required. Finally the defense continues to allow long drives. This group cannot play the cover 3 zone like very well certainly not even close to the Superbowl teams combine that with an offense that has third down trouble and time of possession becomes a huge problem!



    This^^^


    What happened to your thousand words rebuttal in defense of Russ? All reduced to a single word cameo, just when all Russ fans turn their lonely eyes on ya?


    I will reduce my thousand word rebuttal to this what I wrote earlier:
    Not sure where you are getting your this opinion from however, the facts do not support it. 101.8 career QB rating 277 Touchdown passes against just 84 interceptions I would say the facts state Russ reads defenses just fine. The facts support that statement. Russ should have been the number one pick in his draft.

    Also the Cardinals game was winnable the team finally got in the end zone to get within six points the behind Wilson's passing then the defense failed to get off the field. Allowing the Cardinals to score a TD. Listen know you guys have been waiting nine years to criticize Russ but this season's failure are not the QB. At least not to the extant these anti Russ post are stating this defense allows 401.8 yards a game and far to many time consuming possessions. The offense is struggling due to poor pass protection and running game issues though with Collins getting healthier perhaps they can regain some running game.



    This^^^
    John63
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    Posts: 5480
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    tersal wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:


    Worst in Seahawk history, or just with PC as our HC?

    Also, what changed from game one this year to the next few games before RW was hurt. Same OC, QB and offensive players. The difference? PC.


    The lead running back has been injured the primary first round pick backup Penny continues to stay injury prone and then ext option Collins has played injured. Therefore a missing running game . Waldron so far has shown no improvement over last season Seahawk offense. The offense continues to have third down conversion issues due lacking a running game. The offense primarily relies on big plays from Lockett and Metcalf. Pass protection remains a perennial problem, potential playmakers Homer and Dissly do not get enough snaps. Dissly is better than Everet and Homer is the best receiver out of the backfield. Play these guys as it is clear changes are required. Finally the defense continues to allow long drives. This group cannot play the cover 3 zone like very well certainly not even close to the Superbowl teams combine that with an offense that has third down trouble and time of possession becomes a huge problem!


    That's $h!t, the running game was averaging almost 6 yards a run today in the first half, Collins may have dings but he is playing lights out, you need to watch football games more and less highlight reels thinking that's normal every down. 4.2 a carry is considered very good as an average also.


    The Seahawks are averaging just 98 yards rushing per game. The 4,3 yards per carry is respectable so they are not rushing enough. The team against the Cardinals averaged 4.5 yards a carry despite Collins averaging under 4 yards.
    Hence my point on the play calling. By the way Homer averages 5 yards a carry for his career. He is also the teams best pass blocking running back and it appears receiving out of the backfield is natural to him. Why doesn't he play more. Also yes I know some of his carries are on third and longwith the defense playing pass. Still would like to see him get more carries.
    tersal
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  • andyh64000 wrote:
    kf3339 wrote:
    andyh64000 wrote:It was a nice try a guess (although not worth the risk) but he is clearly in way way over his head. Norton is bad, but with Bevell or Schottenheimer this team would be better than 3-7.


    You're kidding. Right?

    Our coaching has been complete crap before he even came to the Hawks. I don't think we even know what we have in him as PC is still calling the shots.


    Show me a 9 game stretch in Seahawk offensive history worse that what has happened beginning with game 2.



    I'm guessing you weren't a Seahawks fan during the 1992 season. That was a season of 16 games of offensive ineptitude.
    oldhawkfan
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  • FloridaSeahawk18 wrote:The list of excuses to avoid blaming $30m Mr. Unlimited:

    Head Coach
    OC 1,2 and now 3. We need a fourth now?
    Oline coach 1 and 2
    Receivers aren't getting open!
    The routes are too long to develop!
    The O-line!
    Carl Smith left!
    The defense can't get off the field and give Russ the ball!
    We have no run game!

    I've been divorced 4 times but it's not my fault, my spouses were just crazy. Maybe my next Wife will work out.

    If I could give an award for the Best Post of the Season, it would go to this.

    This is hilariously, sad and accurate!!

    All rolled into one!

    Kudos to FloridaSeahawk18!

    I’ll drink to this!

    This was fantastic!

    Lmao!
    TheLegendOfBoom
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  • Fire Bevell
    Fire Schotty
    Fire Cable
    Fire KNJ
    Fire Waldron

    Gee, I wonder if there's a pattern here masking the real person that needs to be fired?
    Sgt. Largent
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Fire Bevell
    Fire Schotty
    Fire Cable
    Fire KNJ
    Fire Waldron

    Gee, I wonder if there's a pattern here masking the real person that needs to be fired?

    Jody Allen be like:

    “Fire the beer vendor guy in section 310, he’s obviously the cause of all of our losses!”

    Lmao.
    TheLegendOfBoom
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  • Waldron isn’t the worst third down qb in the league. He’s not holding onto the ball too long. He doesn’t draw up plays and tell Russ not to hit the open receiver. Russ isn’t the same anymore. He hasn’t been elite for quite a while. Use your eyes. Look at the all 22. There are plays to be made. He isn’t making them. Do you feel comfortable when he’s changing the play? I don’t. I loved Wilson but he has lost his Mojo. We are losing any trade value he may have gad by showcasing how far he’s fallen off. It’s not a rosy future. But we got nine great years out of him. Can’t really complain about that. This is not a great year from him. He’s the on field leader and we look better with Geno, the first game and a half not withstanding…
    evergreen
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  • John63 wrote:
    tersal wrote:
    toffee wrote:
    John63 wrote:

    This^^^


    What happened to your thousand words rebuttal in defense of Russ? All reduced to a single word cameo, just when all Russ fans turn their lonely eyes on ya?


    I will reduce my thousand word rebuttal to this what I wrote earlier:
    Not sure where you are getting your this opinion from however, the facts do not support it. 101.8 career QB rating 277 Touchdown passes against just 84 interceptions I would say the facts state Russ reads defenses just fine. The facts support that statement. Russ should have been the number one pick in his draft.

    Also the Cardinals game was winnable the team finally got in the end zone to get within six points the behind Wilson's passing then the defense failed to get off the field. Allowing the Cardinals to score a TD. Listen know you guys have been waiting nine years to criticize Russ but this season's failure are not the QB. At least not to the extant these anti Russ post are stating this defense allows 401.8 yards a game and far to many time consuming possessions. The offense is struggling due to poor pass protection and running game issues though with Collins getting healthier perhaps they can regain some running game.



    This^^^


    King of cameo :)

    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk
    toffee
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    Posts: 3677
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  • tersal wrote:
    tersal wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:
    tersal wrote:
    Are you talking about the same Wilson who has had Quarterbacked this organization to 8 playoff appearances in nine years, the same one who led this team to its only Superbowl win. Russ is proven he is not the problem better pass protection would help. Also The Hawks defense gave up another 413 yards against the Cardinals. Last I checked Quarterbacks do not play defense.


    Absolutely the same guy who performed EXACTLY THE SAME way often during our superbowl runs until he gave uptrying to read defenses and manufactured plays on his own. Off script, scrambling QBs like Tarkenton,Flutie, even Jackson now have a limited serviceability once their ability to manufacture on their own is diminished. The same inability that Russ showed today, he exhibited earlier this year and last year and since he hasn't had a running game and defense to stand behind. He's great at extending plays ( what he did today) and not great at making plays within the playbook.

    Jesus. You know what, when Marshawn Lynch, arguably the most successful and game changing back we've had couldn't do it anymore, itbwould have be asinine to argue not letting him go because of what he did for us BEFORE. His best was in the past. Thanks, good luck. Good bye.

    Russ is figured out. But keep blaming everybody but him. And go ahead and watch what happens when he's on his next team.

    He was gifted with a situation where his HC scripted a strategy to allow him to flourish despite his shortcomings. And since he's demanded that he be allowed to call things the way he wants, his struggles are obvious and all he does is what he knows. The deep pass, forcing balls to playmakers that don't make sense, and scrambling from the pocket when it's been proven time and again that'd it's not necessary.


    Not sure where you are getting your this opinion from however, the facts do not support it. 101.8 career QB rating 277 Touchdown passes against just 84 interceptions I would say the facts state Russ reads defenses just fine. The facts support that statement. Russ should have been the number one pick in his draft.


    What you can also read in those stats is that he plays the game extraordinarily safely. Seems you and all the other Russ boys forget that from 2013 to 2017 or so, Russ was labeled nothing more than a game manager with a knack of doing little all game and then pulling out a PA pass and scramble drill ball to win in the end. They labeled him that because he would only throw 18 to 25 balls per game in very controlled situations, off ofnthe run. You guys refer to what Pete was doing as handcuffing, when in reality Pete was doing what everyone now is saying its his fsult for notbdoing now... putting Russ in situation where his shortcomings are hidden and his talents on display. His efficiency was carefully cultivated and manufactured. Yes thebdude has off the charts arm talent, and grit, but he was never a drop back, cerebral type. Those stats don't show that. Russ has always been an improviser with arm talent and esacpability to get the ball where it needed to be if notbwithin the rhythm of the play and off of reads than with his feet in buying time.

    From 2018 on its been the Russ show with him gradually being more and more in front of the offense. And each year from then to now, it's been an OC scripting an approach for him that suits his talents and masks his shortcomings and then by mid-season that approach being decoded by defenses. Schotty for 3 years until the massive flame out last year and now the dumpster fire that is his play this season.

    You shouldn't have to change OCs to be competitive when you had one who was calling the games Schotty was. We changed because Russ threw a hissy fit and rather than fixing his own mess, put it on the OC and demanded he be made part of thebselection process.

    Problem is there isn't an OC you can hire that can fix him, especially with him having the authority to run what he wants at the line.

    Again. The issue here is obvious. And fact based.
    keasley45
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    Posts: 789
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    Location: Cockeysville, Md


  • keasley45 wrote:
    tersal wrote:
    tersal wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:
    Absolutely the same guy who performed EXACTLY THE SAME way often during our superbowl runs until he gave uptrying to read defenses and manufactured plays on his own. Off script, scrambling QBs like Tarkenton,Flutie, even Jackson now have a limited serviceability once their ability to manufacture on their own is diminished. The same inability that Russ showed today, he exhibited earlier this year and last year and since he hasn't had a running game and defense to stand behind. He's great at extending plays ( what he did today) and not great at making plays within the playbook.

    Jesus. You know what, when Marshawn Lynch, arguably the most successful and game changing back we've had couldn't do it anymore, itbwould have be asinine to argue not letting him go because of what he did for us BEFORE. His best was in the past. Thanks, good luck. Good bye.

    Russ is figured out. But keep blaming everybody but him. And go ahead and watch what happens when he's on his next team.

    He was gifted with a situation where his HC scripted a strategy to allow him to flourish despite his shortcomings. And since he's demanded that he be allowed to call things the way he wants, his struggles are obvious and all he does is what he knows. The deep pass, forcing balls to playmakers that don't make sense, and scrambling from the pocket when it's been proven time and again that'd it's not necessary.


    Not sure where you are getting your this opinion from however, the facts do not support it. 101.8 career QB rating 277 Touchdown passes against just 84 interceptions I would say the facts state Russ reads defenses just fine. The facts support that statement. Russ should have been the number one pick in his draft.


    What you can also read in those stats is that he plays the game extraordinarily safely. Seems you and all the other Russ boys forget that from 2013 to 2017 or so, Russ was labeled nothing more than a game manager with a knack of doing little all game and then pulling out a PA pass and scramble drill ball to win in the end. They labeled him that because he would only throw 18 to 25 balls per game in very controlled situations, off ofnthe run. You guys refer to what Pete was doing as handcuffing, when in reality Pete was doing what everyone now is saying its his fsult for notbdoing now... putting Russ in situation where his shortcomings are hidden and his talents on display. His efficiency was carefully cultivated and manufactured. Yes thebdude has off the charts arm talent, and grit, but he was never a drop back, cerebral type. Those stats don't show that. Russ has always been an improviser with arm talent and esacpability to get the ball where it needed to be if notbwithin the rhythm of the play and off of reads than with his feet in buying time.

    From 2018 on its been the Russ show with him gradually being more and more in front of the offense. And each year from then to now, it's been an OC scripting an approach for him that suits his talents and masks his shortcomings and then by mid-season that approach being decoded by defenses. Schotty for 3 years until the massive flame out last year and now the dumpster fire that is his play this season.

    You shouldn't have to change OCs to be competitive when you had one who was calling the games Schotty was. We changed because Russ threw a hissy fit and rather than fixing his own mess, put it on the OC and demanded he be made part of thebselection process.

    Problem is there isn't an OC you can hire that can fix him, especially with him having the authority to run what he wants at the line.

    Again. The issue here is obvious. And fact based.


    Some may say that you are coach Carroll himself :)
    toffee
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