Article: What St. Louis thinks of seattle's passing game

[bandiger]

Honestly after reading some of the sobering Oline performance its a miracle offense got any points really. Whats is Pete and Cable doing....

https://twitter.com/Cianaf Just brutal stuff.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

This picture right here is why Bevel should be fired..wtf is this play design?

What don't you like about it?

It looks like a great play to me. There's two receivers with a 7+ yard completion on 1st and 17. I think every OC would be happy with that result.

To use a basketball term, it's a layup. Instead, it ended in a sack.

 

[aawolf]

This picture right here is why Bevel should be fired..wtf is this play design?

Ummm, hate to point out the obvious to everyone who's looked at this screenshot and interpreted it to mean that Wilson wasn't patient or that receivers should have run deeper routes, BUT DOES ANYONE ELSE SEE WHERE ROBERT QUINN (#94) IS ON THIS PLAY???
So, seeing that dude, one of the best rushers in the NFL, about a foot away from Wilson, with his man beat, the receivers should have run longer routes that would have taken more time to develop? What is the result from this screenshot if the play took longer to develop? Anyone want to guess?

 

[Recon_Hawk]

With this short passing attack..the most ive ever seen us do...we STILL got sacked 6 times....so..it obv didnt work very well since he still got sacked the same ammount of times he always does against them. What did they say last night he had been sacked 36 times in 7 games..that is rediculous

So you're saying the reason the Rams have sacked Russell so many times is playcalling?

You'd think it has more to do with our horrible pass protection + the Rams having the best front 7 in the NFL. That makes more sense.

The Rams do what they always do because they have the personnel to do it, crowd the line, get pressure with just their front four and force us to dink and dunk. They dictated the game on that side of the ball.

Let me ask you a question. Shouldn't 31 pts be enough to beat the Rams? Why is everyone wanting Bevell's head? Aren't we suppose to have the #1 defense in the league? I put this on the D, not Bevell or playcalling.

Exactly. I was putting a bit too much blame, yesterday, on the offense for not making big plays, but this article does a great job of showing there wasn't many big plays to be made. The Rams defense was willing to to give easy 5-8 yard completions over big chunk plays. The offense could have done better, but they mostly held up their part of the plan.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

This picture right here is why Bevel should be fired..wtf is this play design?

Ummm, hate to point out the obvious to everyone who's looked at this screenshot and interpreted it to mean that Wilson wasn't patient or that receivers should have run deeper routes, BUT DOES ANYONE ELSE SEE WHERE ROBERT QUINN (#94) IS ON THIS PLAY???
So, seeing that dude, one of the best rushers in the NFL, about a foot away from Wilson, with his man beat, the receivers should have run longer routes that would have taken more time to develop? What is the result from this screenshot if the play took longer to develop? Anyone want to guess?

It's still an unimaginative setup. They came back to that well too much when they had other things they've run successfully. Also, this formation takes away Wilson's ability to run.

 

[aawolf]

This picture right here is why Bevel should be fired..wtf is this play design?

Ummm, hate to point out the obvious to everyone who's looked at this screenshot and interpreted it to mean that Wilson wasn't patient or that receivers should have run deeper routes, BUT DOES ANYONE ELSE SEE WHERE ROBERT QUINN (#94) IS ON THIS PLAY???
So, seeing that dude, one of the best rushers in the NFL, about a foot away from Wilson, with his man beat, the receivers should have run longer routes that would have taken more time to develop? What is the result from this screenshot if the play took longer to develop? Anyone want to guess?

It's still an unimaginative setup. They came back to that well too much when they had other things they've run successfully. Also, this formation takes away Wilson's ability to run.

Maybe, but the result of this play was a sack, where Robert Quinn sacked Russell for a four yard loss, probably half a second after the screenshot. One second more in protection, and he would have completed the pass. He should have definitely got rid of it though. The bright spot is that in the next play, HE COMPLETED A 20 YARD PASS UP THE MIDDLE ON 2nd and 20!!! Then, Lynch converted the first down with a one yard drive.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

[ Also, this formation takes away Wilson's ability to run.

The Rams took away Wilson's ability to run.

We use the same base formations in every game don't we? Why is Wilson's ability to run only taken away against the Rams and other teams with good front 7's? Hmmm, could be the other team has something to do with it?

 

[WilsonMVP]

This picture right here is why Bevel should be fired..wtf is this play design?

Ummm, hate to point out the obvious to everyone who's looked at this screenshot and interpreted it to mean that Wilson wasn't patient or that receivers should have run deeper routes, BUT DOES ANYONE ELSE SEE WHERE ROBERT QUINN (#94) IS ON THIS PLAY???
So, seeing that dude, one of the best rushers in the NFL, about a foot away from Wilson, with his man beat, the receivers should have run longer routes that would have taken more time to develop? What is the result from this screenshot if the play took longer to develop? Anyone want to guess?

It's still an unimaginative setup. They came back to that well too much when they had other things they've run successfully. Also, this formation takes away Wilson's ability to run.

Maybe, but the result of this play was a sack, where Robert Quinn sacked Russell for a four yard loss, probably half a second after the screenshot. One second more in protection, and he would have completed the pass. He should have definitely got rid of it though. The bright spot is that in the next play, HE COMPLETED A 20 YARD PASS UP THE MIDDLE ON 2nd and 20!!! Then, Lynch converted the first down with a one yard drive.

And if he does have time? What are the options..5 routes that are all curl plays...seems fantastic

 

[Recon_Hawk]

This picture right here is why Bevel should be fired..wtf is this play design?

Ummm, hate to point out the obvious to everyone who's looked at this screenshot and interpreted it to mean that Wilson wasn't patient or that receivers should have run deeper routes, BUT DOES ANYONE ELSE SEE WHERE ROBERT QUINN (#94) IS ON THIS PLAY???
So, seeing that dude, one of the best rushers in the NFL, about a foot away from Wilson, with his man beat, the receivers should have run longer routes that would have taken more time to develop? What is the result from this screenshot if the play took longer to develop? Anyone want to guess?

It's still an unimaginative setup. They came back to that well too much when they had other things they've run successfully. Also, this formation takes away Wilson's ability to run.

Maybe, but the result of this play was a sack, where Robert Quinn sacked Russell for a four yard loss, probably half a second after the screenshot. One second more in protection, and he would have completed the pass. He should have definitely got rid of it though. The bright spot is that in the next play, HE COMPLETED A 20 YARD PASS UP THE MIDDLE ON 2nd and 20!!! Then, Lynch converted the first down with a one yard drive.

Lockett and Kearse (?) are already out of their breaks. The ball needs to be out sooner.

 

[McGruff]

This picture right here is why Bevel should be fired..wtf is this play design?

First and 17..............defense is going to play 10 yards off the line + we can't block anybody = short routes to try and gain 5-7 yards so it's not 2nd and 3rd and long.

You guys all want deep routes and more explosive plays, but those take time to develop. Which Russell didn't have, ever yesterday.

So if you want longer routes downfield, then you're saying you also wanted 5-6 more sacks cause that's the trade off.

I think the issue people have, right or wrong, is that it seems like Bevell and Wilson were on different pages of the playbook.

Bevell's playcalling was actually fine overall. He did what made sense with an inexperienced online against a overpowering dline . . . he called a lot of short/quick passes.

The problem is Wilson didn't take them.

I watched Brady on Thursday, and the difference is striking. Brady is boom boom boom throw. He could have the crappiest line in the world and it wouldn't matter. Wilson drops and holds and waits and rolls and . . . when it works its beautiful and ugly at the same time, but when it doesn't its infuriating.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Lockett and Kearse (?) are already out of their breaks. The ball needs to be out sooner.

See now you're onto something, and I said in another thread I thought after Russell threw that pick that he was WAY more tentative with his throws and decision making.

When he's "on it" as Pete likes to say, there is ZERO hesitation..........and I saw a LOT of hesitation yesterday, especially in the 2nd half. IMO the Rams rattled Russell.

I know that doesn't play into the "we hate Bevell" narrative with all these threads, but it's the Tru7th.

 

[bigskydoc]

Either way, it was either pay him now or pay him later. Because you do not get good QBs in the later rounds but for a few lucky strikes like we got getting him in the first place.

Excellent points. My thought process goes like this though.

1 - Russell Wilson's NFL success to date is largely built on his ability to scramble away from the pressure, and the threat that he will take off downfield for big gains when given the opportunity. Even Wilson's biggest supporters, cough Anthony cough, agree that his legs are a huge percent of what has made him successful here. Statements like, "any other, non-mobile, QB would be demolished here in Seattle and wouldn't have the passing stats they have elsewhere" are frequently seen from both his critics and his supporters. He has never been asked to carry the team solely on his arm.

2 - To date, Wilson really hasn't had a receiver corps that allows him to showcase his passing chops. He has had some amazing passes, and stellar work as a QB, but he has never had the supporting cast to carry the team on his arm.

3 - All running backs and running QB's eventually hit a wall where their legs will no longer carry them. RB's get washed out. Running QB's either have to fall back on their arm, or they bounce around the league before being washed out. Maybe Wilson is the exception and he will be breaking off 20-yard read option runs well into his late 30's. I'm not willing to bet the farm on it. Eventually he will have to carry the team on his arm.

4 - Signing him is a long-term commitment. One that will almost certainly last longer than his running game. Eventually he will be asked to carry the team on his arm.

This year was our last year to see what Wilson can do with his arm before having to sign him to a long-term relationship. We brought in Jimmy Graham, drafted Tyler Lockett, and have P Rich waiting in the wings. Perhaps not quite an elite receiving corps, but one that should allow Wilson to showcase his arm.

Personally, I would have waited a year to see what he can do with the weapons we acquired before signing up for a long-term commitment. Not that signing him was a bad idea, just not the way I would have gone about it.

- bsd

 

[Russ Willstrong]

It cant be overstated that the rams defensive front and coaching is very familiar with our offensive line tendencies and weaknesses. I also have to agree that Wilson's weakness against the Rams is his penchant to look for a long pass or to counter the rush when he could take the result of short plays.
However his stats were not horrible AND we had a chance to pull out another comeback win.

Funny thing is Wilson's play reminds me of how Favre used to ignore some designed plays in Minnesota. There was a time when Favre struggled with Bevell's/Childress playcalling as if he didn't trust the call at that moment. Obviously Favre was able to audible but only after butting heads with the coaching staff.

 

[kearly]

Wilson and Bevell were put in an extremely tough situation in this game, and I think Wilson did an admirable job weathering the storm. Seattle ended up scoring 17 points on offense in not a lot of possessions, which pretty much matched realistic expectations going in.

As far as the review, still pictures from broadcast angles can be incredibly misleading when put in the wrong hands. It doesn't show you how the play was flowing, what the safeties were doing off screen, or how pressure was impacting the QB and what he was physically able to see.

It's kind of like a movie review. Just because a random critic gave a movie 4 stars isn't all that meaningful. But if a critic you almost always agree with gives the movie 4 stars, then it's a must see. The credibility and expertise of the writer play a big role in the validity of this kind of analysis.

Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong, but I'm not putting much stock in it because I've never really formed a strong opinion on the writer's credentials. If Scottemojo reached the same conclusion after watching all-22, I'd probably buy it, with or without the screenshots.

 

[Laloosh]

Wilson and Bevell were put in an extremely tough situation in this game, and I think Wilson did an admirable job weathering the storm. Seattle ended up scoring 17 points on offense in not a lot of possessions, which pretty much matched realistic expectations going in.

As far as the review, still pictures from broadcast angles can be incredibly misleading when put in the wrong hands. It doesn't show you how the play was flowing, what the safeties were doing off screen, or how pressure was impacting the QB and what he was physically able to see.

It's kind of like a movie review. Just because a random critic gave a movie 4 stars isn't all that meaningful. But if a critic you almost always agree with gives the movie 4 stars, then it's a must see. The credibility and expertise of the writer play a big role in the validity of this kind of analysis.

Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong, but I'm not putting much stock in it because I've never really formed a strong opinion on the writer's credentials. If Scottemojo reached the same conclusion after watching all-22, I'd probably buy it, with or without the screenshots.

Point well taken on that last bit.

I prefer reading stats / analysis after losses over some of the shouting matches that threads become. I don't have the football mind that others do so I post a link and see what others have to say.

 

[WilsonMVP]

Lockett and Kearse (?) are already out of their breaks. The ball needs to be out sooner.

See now you're onto something, and I said in another thread I thought after Russell threw that pick that he was WAY more tentative with his throws and decision making.

When he's "on it" as Pete likes to say, there is ZERO hesitation..........and I saw a LOT of hesitation yesterday, especially in the 2nd half. IMO the Rams rattled Russell.

I know that doesn't play into the "we hate Bevell" narrative with all these threads, but it's the Tru7th.

No you are right. I dont know how much of that is from Pete and the coaches getting into his ear about being turnover free and playing it safe though. Just needs to learn to trust his reads more

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

Wilson aside Baldwin is average at best ,at this point Kearse is a better WR I'd start Lockett right now over Baldwin.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

When he's "on it" as Pete likes to say, there is ZERO hesitation..........and I saw a LOT of hesitation yesterday, especially in the 2nd half. IMO the Rams rattled Russell.

Actually, I saw far less hesitation from Wilson in the fourth quarter when Seattle started playing hurry-up, and that's noteworthy because Wilson was calling the plays there. It actually feeds RIGHT into the Bevell narrative.

 

[chris98251]

Our issue is we don't throw our receivers open and lead them on slants to get YAC, when they have to wait or set up they rarely get YAC, thats a trust issue with either Bevell and Wilson or Pete and Wilson. If they were playing that far off rubs and slants would have given our guys three steps to get going and break one or get additional yardage and pull them forward for the deep ball.

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

You know there is a possibility that this team is never the same and the run with Pete as head coach is over. I won't throw Wilson in there yet but I'm concerned about him if they try to phase out the read option. It's probably to early for a post like this, but something is amiss with this team as a whole based on what I've seen so far in the preseason and now game one . Kam debacle is also a big loss.