Article: What St. Louis thinks of seattle's passing game

[Hawkpower]

unfortunately, this is nothing new, and is what many in here were saying during the midst of the Wilson negotiations.

I was literally screaming at the TV the whole game, the same thing. Sometimes I have to wonder what Wilson sees when we look at screen shots like that.....

This.

It's why I thought we should wait a year to extend Wilson.

- bsd

Yeah, that John Schneider is such a dumbass for not getting on here at .NET, well ahead of entering negotiations and pick the brains of some of us know-it-alls before signing guys like that.
ABSURD.

Many professional NFL "know it alls" have hesitations too.

RW may not be the largest of our worries, but the guy has flaws in his game that hurt us at times. Responding angrily to a valid point doesn't really solidify yours....whatever yours happens to be...

 

[Anthony!]

I think all of this is funny and pretty pathetic I mean he completed 78% of his passes, using a snap shot and saying see is just plain ignorant. Lets remember we had what would have been another TD dropped by stone hand luke. All that while being hit, hurried, and sacked most of the night. I mean from the WHB I get hit, but some of you others, wow. Get a grip Its one game against a team we usually struggle against, with little to no run game and he completes 78% of his passes, has a QB rating over 90.

 

[LoneHawkFan]

I think all of this is funny and pretty pathetic I mean he completed 78% of his passes, using a snap shot and saying see is just plain ignorant. Lets remember we had what would have been another TD dropped by stone hand luke. All that while being hit, hurried, and sacked most of the night. I mean from the WHB I get hit, but some of you others, wow. Get a grip Its one game against a team we usually struggle against, with little to no run game and he completes 78% of his passes, has a QB rating over 90.

Our offense- HIS offense- scored 17 pts despite being inside the Rams' 40 yd line 6 times. One TD. While or defense gave up 27. We can look at Kam's absence and poor LB play, poor tackling, etc...on that side of the ball...but...

...ultimately, he left plays on the field, several. And that's what the RW critiquing is all about.

I don't think it's unfair to discuss the mistakes he made. A lot of what fans observed in the game has been backed up by real game film research. If it were ignorant to check out snapshots, you wouldn't see every damned QB in the history of the league looking at them after every single drive.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

[ Also, this formation takes away Wilson's ability to run.

The Rams took away Wilson's ability to run.

We use the same base formations in every game don't we? Why is Wilson's ability to run only taken away against the Rams and other teams with good front 7's? Hmmm, could be the other team has something to do with it?

At this point, everyone is desperately digging their heels in for the sake of exonerating one party and blaming the other. I myself am dangerously close to doing that. So I will now be taking my leave of this conversation.

 

[SalishHawkFan]

What bothers me most about this isn't just that the Rams have recognized how to scheme for Pete's Big Play philosophy and shut down the Big Pass Play which, btw, had declined greatly already in 2014, what bothers me most is that Wilson didn't see it.

 

[Hawkpower]

I think all of this is funny and pretty pathetic I mean he completed 78% of his passes, using a snap shot and saying see is just plain ignorant. Lets remember we had what would have been another TD dropped by stone hand luke. All that while being hit, hurried, and sacked most of the night. I mean from the WHB I get hit, but some of you others, wow. Get a grip Its one game against a team we usually struggle against, with little to no run game and he completes 78% of his passes, has a QB rating over 90.

And still failed to throw simple passes to wide open receivers.

And still held the ball WAY too long. Its baffling.

He did some good things as well. But we are allowed to discuss his weaknesses, because they are at least partially at fault for our sputtering offense.

 

[Anthony!]

I think all of this is funny and pretty pathetic I mean he completed 78% of his passes, using a snap shot and saying see is just plain ignorant. Lets remember we had what would have been another TD dropped by stone hand luke. All that while being hit, hurried, and sacked most of the night. I mean from the WHB I get hit, but some of you others, wow. Get a grip Its one game against a team we usually struggle against, with little to no run game and he completes 78% of his passes, has a QB rating over 90.

Our offense- HIS offense- scored 17 pts despite being inside the Rams' 40 yd line 6 times. One TD. While or defense gave up 27. We can look at Kam's absence and poor LB play, poor tackling, etc...on that side of the ball...but...

...ultimately, he left plays on the field, several. And that's what the RW critiquing is all about.

I don't think it's unfair to discuss the mistakes he made. A lot of what fans observed in the game has been backed up by real game film research. If it were ignorant to check out snapshots, you wouldn't see every damned QB in the history of the league looking at them after every single drive.

The difference is the QBs reviewing them no the plays, and the players and see angles we do not. So again my point about them stands

 

[Scottemojo]

Lockett and Kearse (?) are already out of their breaks. The ball needs to be out sooner.

See now you're onto something, and I said in another thread I thought after Russell threw that pick that he was WAY more tentative with his throws and decision making.

When he's "on it" as Pete likes to say, there is ZERO hesitation..........and I saw a LOT of hesitation yesterday, especially in the 2nd half. IMO the Rams rattled Russell.

I know that doesn't play into the "we hate Bevell" narrative with all these threads, but it's the Tru7th.

I am a Bevell critic.
That play failed because of russell. When the play was called, every lineman knew the routes were all under 5 yards. The ball has to out in 2 seconds, the protection is predicated on the route trees.

That said, and I think the all-22 will bck me up, the rams showed soft coverage and buzzed the safeites or cornerbacks down tight just before or as the ball was snapped. A number of they showed easy passes of 5 yards, but took away the YAC, and Seattle fell for it, because by necessity of not being able to mark Donald and Quinn.

I am convinced Seattle isundertaking the uber athlete Sokoli project to counter one player, Donald. It will be a year or two, but they recognize that one guy can wreck their offensive plan if that one guy plays in the DT spot.

 

[HawkAroundTheClock]

What happens if Jimmy runs a drag in front of those backers while the opposite-side slot WR runs a short slant? Or the same-side slot WR runs a short slant behind him? Is that something in our playbook?

It seems like Graham could pull some coverage wherever he goes – at least lure a defender or two a step in his direction. If he gets a step on a guy, zip it in there for 3-4 yards and let him make a play for more. Or zip it to the guy who slants into the vacated area.

Is that too simple? Or too complex, compared to 5 simultaneous curl routes?

 

[Scottemojo]

What happens if Jimmy runs a drag in front of those backers while the opposite-side slot WR runs a short slant? Or the same-side slot WR runs a short slant behind him? Is that something in our playbook?

It seems like Graham could pull some coverage wherever he goes – at least lure a defender or two a step in his direction. If he gets a step on a guy, zip it in there for 3-4 yards and let him make a play for more. Or zip it to the guy who slants into the vacated area.

Is that too simple? Or too complex, compared to 5 simultaneous curl routes?

It's simple, but takes more time.

I saw that 5 short route play last year too. It didn't work well then either.

 

[hawksmode]

Good find.

So it looks like it's either route concepts from Bevell, or Wilson's disregard for throwing short passes.

I didn't get to see the game, I listened to it on the radio, but looking at those screen shots is horrifying. Wilson has an easy 5-8 yards to half of his WRs on most plays, and passes it up. He's literally passing up 1st downs. Against STL's defensive line. To go deep.

Yikes.

He did the same this in the SB...maddening.

 

[Hasselbeck]

I think all of this is funny and pretty pathetic I mean he completed 78% of his passes, using a snap shot and saying see is just plain ignorant. Lets remember we had what would have been another TD dropped by stone hand luke.

It was also a poor decision by Russell to even throw that pass.. he had an easy lane to the end zone. Again, showing some hesitation and indecision.

All that while being hit, hurried, and sacked most of the night. I mean from the WHB I get hit, but some of you others, wow. Get a grip Its one game against a team we usually struggle against, with little to no run game and he completes 78% of his passes, has a QB rating over 90.

78% completion rate isn't great if a lot of passes are 0-5 yards down the field. QBR is not the end all stat either. I'd rather have Russ have a rating in the 70-80s if it means he's taking a shot down the field to make a defense pay for leaving his WR's in 1 on 1 matchups all game.

I love Russ, but this has been his style of play from Day 1. There were several times where he could have let the ball rip and he held onto it too long and either took a sack or threw a short bail out pass (which pretty much pads that misleading 78% completion rate)

 

[LoneHawkFan]

I think all of this is funny and pretty pathetic I mean he completed 78% of his passes, using a snap shot and saying see is just plain ignorant. Lets remember we had what would have been another TD dropped by stone hand luke. All that while being hit, hurried, and sacked most of the night. I mean from the WHB I get hit, but some of you others, wow. Get a grip Its one game against a team we usually struggle against, with little to no run game and he completes 78% of his passes, has a QB rating over 90.

Our offense- HIS offense- scored 17 pts despite being inside the Rams' 40 yd line 6 times. One TD. While or defense gave up 27. We can look at Kam's absence and poor LB play, poor tackling, etc...on that side of the ball...but...

...ultimately, he left plays on the field, several. And that's what the RW critiquing is all about.

I don't think it's unfair to discuss the mistakes he made. A lot of what fans observed in the game has been backed up by real game film research. If it were ignorant to check out snapshots, you wouldn't see every damned QB in the history of the league looking at them after every single drive.

The difference is the QBs reviewing them no the plays, and the players and see angles we do not. So again my point about them stands

Are you saying that by watching the game "from our angle", without "knowing the plays" that we can't, as fans, dissect plays that were made (or weren't made) on the field?

The particular play on 1st-and-17 w 5 guys running 5-yd curls...you can't look at that and think to yourself "there was a play to be made there and Russell didn't pull the trigger"? 4 guys covering 5, and two defenders doubling Graham. Aaron is 15' from Russell, Russell is looking right at a wide open Lockett...and makes the choice to try and escape...and takes a sack. That's a play that was left on the field, period. There's no two-ways around it.

Do you think Pete and the coaching staff is telling all of their players "don't worry, we'll be fine, it's just one game"...or do you think he's telling them, "hey, we left a lot of plays on the field, and here's where..."

Why is it that this fan base isn't allowed to dissect the plays in a fashion that you better hope the coaches are doing?

 

[Scottemojo]

Watching all 22 right now. Russ's performance is terribly disappointing so far. no anticipation, missing wide open players.

 

[aawolf]

Watching all 22 right now. Russ's performance is terribly disappointing so far. no anticipation, missing wide open players.

I look forward to the ananlysis you do on this. I defend Russell an awful lot on here, but I get that he makes mistakes. The good usually outweighs the bad though and I get mad when I see people over-critical of him. For instance, on that play that is discussed above, I think he doesn't start his throwing motion as the receivers come out of their breaks because of the risk of a strip sack--he only has enough time to tuck and run up the middle to avoid a turnover--avoiding turnovers leads to a lot of yards he doesn't get in every game.

 

[lobohawk]

Ultimately, the onus is on the OC to let the QB know where he's missing things. Most QBs need that outside perspective to get out of their own tunnel vision. If he needed to get the throws out faster, Bevell needs to tell him. If we needed to emphasize the short over the long, then Bevell needed to see it and tell him.

As a Russell fan or apologist in some people's minds, here are things he has to overcome.
- His strong conviction will lead him to sticking with things longer than they should
(e.g. bad game plan, keep forcing things that don't work)
- His reluctance to take risks until late, means he leaves yards on the field
- He leans on his athleticism too much (holding the ball, passing up yards, etc)

Most of the rest are nitpicky and something all QBs deal with at some point (sailing passes, missing reads, reading blitzes, etc). These are generally dealt with by good QBs, as they gain experience.

 

[HawkAroundTheClock]

What happens if Jimmy runs a drag in front of those backers while the opposite-side slot WR runs a short slant? Or the same-side slot WR runs a short slant behind him? Is that something in our playbook?

It seems like Graham could pull some coverage wherever he goes – at least lure a defender or two a step in his direction. If he gets a step on a guy, zip it in there for 3-4 yards and let him make a play for more. Or zip it to the guy who slants into the vacated area.

Is that too simple? Or too complex, compared to 5 simultaneous curl routes?

It's simple, but takes more time.

That makes sense. I'm curious what the all-22 shows. During the broadcast it looked like a bunch of times we had a guy in the slot with a defender way off. In the shotgun, that's ripe for a snap-set-throw to a 3-step slant and we get positive yards.

Run that a couple times with Graham, then if/when they cheat up, let him take those 3 steps then double-move vertically down the seam for a back-breaking big gain.

It's probably more complex than that, but we didn't even try it, IIRC. Meanwhile we threw a lot of quick passes short of the LOS, which makes way less sense.

Maybe with our o-line, this is all wishful thinking. Sigh.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

One criticism of Graham while we're talking about his involvement in the plays we're running is he doesn't run the crispest routes, and Davis Hsu even Tweeted about this during the game.........said Graham runs his routes like a truck.

Graham I noticed wanders around in his routes, instead of making crisp cuts. So not sure what that's about, but it certainly makes him easier to blanket.

 

[HawkAroundTheClock]

One criticism of Graham while we're talking about his involvement in the plays we're running is he doesn't run the crispest routes, and Davis Hsu even Tweeted about this during the game.........said Graham runs his routes like a truck.

Graham I noticed wanders around in his routes, instead of making crisp cuts. So not sure what that's about, but it certainly makes him easier to blanket.

I haven't watched Graham on all-22 over the years, so I'm not asking with any kind of authority.

But doesn't that sound weird, considering his monstrous stats came in a precision-timing offense where he had to be in a specific spot and he knew the ball would be there at a specific time? Chemistry with Brees accounts for some of his success, but it's not like the Saints had to dumb-down his routes to feed him the ball. Or did they?

Also, yeah the guy is nimble for his size, but he's still 270 pounds. He might be able to catch like a WR, but he's never going to cut and juke like one.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

One criticism of Graham while we're talking about his involvement in the plays we're running is he doesn't run the crispest routes, and Davis Hsu even Tweeted about this during the game.........said Graham runs his routes like a truck.

Graham I noticed wanders around in his routes, instead of making crisp cuts. So not sure what that's about, but it certainly makes him easier to blanket.

I haven't watched Graham on all-22 over the years, so I'm not asking with any kind of authority.

But doesn't that sound weird, considering his monstrous stats came in a precision-timing offense where he had to be in a specific spot and he knew the ball would be there at a specific time? Chemistry with Brees accounts for some of his success, but it's not like the Saints had to dumb-down his routes to feed him the ball. Or did they?

Also, yeah the guy is nimble for his size, but he's still 270 pounds. He might be able to catch like a WR, but he's never going to cut and juke like one.

Well my eyes didn't lie, I saw Graham just kinda wandering out into coverage looking for holes in the zone to sit down in.

Not all the time, he did run a good route for the TD.

As far as his productivity with Brees, dude's a 6'7" freak of nature so even if running routes wasn't his strong suit he' still going to put up huge numbers with an accurate QB who throws the ball 40-50 times a game.