As of now is RW top 5 QB?

[original poster]

Even if it is 135 (and I don't dispute it isn't, it may well be), that is 35% so my point remains.

"Well over a third" is once again, inaccurate.

I'm not going to carry on feeding your posts, though.

Oh I see how you did that edit after you had 54 completions for Brady :roll: Your not feeding my posts, but when you continue to post things so factually wrong I will point it out. Oh and it is weak sauce to edit after the fact so you don’t look as wrong.

I even wrote 'edit' incase anyone saw my original numbers.

As a mod I can edit without it showing up on the board, hence writing the very word into the post to show I wasn't trying to 'hide' anything.

This is ridiculous, you seem hell bent on proving RW isn't who many on here think he is and that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

Let's hope Russ is moved and we can get a QB like Hass in.

 

[adeltaY]

Hawkman is reaching HARD to justify his dislike of Russ.

 

[hawkman]

Hawkman is reaching HARD to justify his dislike of Russ.

I don’t dislike him. I have always said he does some things well. Problem is he has to many holes in his game to consider him elite. Some on here can’t handle hearing any negatives when it comes to RW. And you say I’m trying hard? That last poster completely fabricated stats to try to make things look better.

 

[RCATES]

Hawkman is reaching HARD to justify his dislike of Russ.

I don’t dislike him. I have always said he does some things well. Problem is he has to many holes in his game to consider him elite. Some on here can’t handle hearing any negatives when it comes to RW. And you say I’m trying hard? That last poster completely fabricated stats to try to make things look better.

We are on a Hawks forum. Extreme Homers is to be expected. I agree with you. Not a fan of Wilson. He's a great athlete, incredible person etc. etc. Just not a top 5 QB in today's NFL.

 

[Scorpion05]

Hawkman is reaching HARD to justify his dislike of Russ.

I don’t dislike him. I have always said he does some things well. Problem is he has to many holes in his game to consider him elite. Some on here can’t handle hearing any negatives when it comes to RW. And you say I’m trying hard? That last poster completely fabricated stats to try to make things look better.

We are on a Hawks forum. Extreme Homers is to be expected. I agree with you. Not a fan of Wilson. He's a great athlete, incredible person etc. etc. Just not a top 5 QB in today's NFL.

That’s not how this works..for either of you quite frankly.

Your logic is already twisted and steeped in bias. Your reasoning is, all those who defend Russell Wilson are hardcore homers. If I were to say Tom Brady is overrated, I may truly believe that. But anyone who disagrees with me is not simply a “homer”

Most of you make wildly absurd claims with no comparative analysis or research. The most obvious question is who are the 5 Qbs better than Russell Wilson? Why? What have you seen on tape for example to justify that?? Have you sat down and compared film? If so can you upload it?

Others are at least trying to provide numbers, stats, etc to support their argument. And even beyond that, in a previous thread I even provided film comparisons to show the nitpicking of Russ is silly and rooted in a deep bias against him. Face it, some of you Russ critics are not interested in truth. There’s not a shred of evidence that can be provided to you that would change your mind

 

[JGfromtheNW]

Good lord, some people just can't admit they're wrong.

And no, I'm not talking about original poster.

 

[hawkman]

Good lord, some people just can't admit they're wrong.

And no, I'm not talking about original poster.

Maybe you would like to actually add to the thread by pointing out how some are wrong with facts?

 

[WilsonMVP]

Typical to have someone make a claim that just flat out isn't true. Yeah, he can't pass the ball in the pocket or over the middle. Beyond ridiculous claim. He can do anything that ANY QB in the league can do. Claiming he can't pass over the middle, or in the pocket, or he's too short etc. Change the damn record :roll:

Ya it always makes me laugh when fans from other teams, heck even our own, claim Wilson cant throw from the pocket or middle of the field even though his numbers in those areas are Excellent

 

[WilsonMVP]

Here's some more passer rating stats for Russ.

The thing that his game would benefit most from is his efficiency on 3rd down. It's the only area where he is below league average.

Lets hope teams keep blitzing on him, though. He absolutely excels.

His 3rd down passer rating is probably bad because he SEEMINGLY is always throwing it on 3rd and Long. I dont know how many times our offense does nothing first 2 downs or commits a stupid penalty to make it 3rd and L

 

[adeltaY]

Lol I'm a homer despite plenty of criticism of the team and a pretty bleak outlook on next season. Riiiiight

 

[chris98251]

For Wilson to be as successful as he is despite no running game, despite no O -LINE, despite a OC that didn't know how to use the talent he was given and forcing 3rd and 10,15, 20 plays constantly and be rated where he is, I would say he is Elite in a non typical way, his numbers are very good considering he was asked to be the offense despite 7 other players not performing up to par, O line, TE, and RB's.

What can he do with receivers, that have non predictable routes, a TE that will catch in the flat and across the middle as well as receivers, a running game and time to read thru his progressions?

 

[Scorpion05]

Here's some more passer rating stats for Russ.

The thing that his game would benefit most from is his efficiency on 3rd down. It's the only area where he is below league average.

Lets hope teams keep blitzing on him, though. He absolutely excels.

Very fair point. I think defenses use some of Russ's achilles heel against him on 3rd downs. They call those crucial 3rd down plays...and that's where a proper running game comes in. To give shorter down and distances and versatility. Then his 3rd down numbers would be more respectable

 

[hawknation2018]

Here's some more passer rating stats for Russ.

The thing that his game would benefit most from is his efficiency on 3rd down. It's the only area where he is below league average.

Lets hope teams keep blitzing on him, though. He absolutely excels.

Very fair point. I think defenses use some of Russ's achilles heel against him on 3rd downs. They call those crucial 3rd down plays...and that's where a proper running game comes in. To give shorter down and distances and versatility. Then his 3rd down numbers would be more respectable

They also used Bevell's 3rd down play calling against him.

 

[original poster]

Very good point on the third and long.

I'd love to find the average yardage on 3rd down for him, wouldn't be surprised if it's bottom third in the league.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

My list:

Brady
Brees (criminally underrated)
Rodgers
Rapelessberger
Ryan (MVP last year who at times looked like #1)
Wentz (legitimate MVP candidate if he doesn’t get hurt)
Wilson (nearing serious MVP discussion outside of Seattle)
Rivers
Smith
Newton


There is a large gap between 7 and the bottom 3, and 4, 5,6 and 7 are very close. The top three are far removed from the rest.


Brees has led the NFL in yards seven times, while also breaking the completion percentage record numerous times. Five 5000 yard seasons, all while throwing mostly to scrubs. One such season included setting a new NFL completion % record and a new yards record, while throwing 46 TDs, with his top wr being Marcus Colston, a guy who went to ZERO Pro Bowls in his career. If this was seven years ago, he would be number 1 on my list. Give him the defense Brady has had and HE is considered the GOAT with several Lombardi’s.

Wentz might jump to the top soon. Wilson is knocking on the top 5 door and is going to be top three in a couple years.

Not enough data on Watson and Garoppolo. Cousins is just outside that list. Mahomes could jump up there sooner rather than later.

 

[lobohawk]

Some commentary from Tyrann Mathieu about WIlson
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/03/22/tyrann-mathieu-wont-miss-facing-russell-wilson/
At about the 7min mark.

some quotes
"So which player from the NFC West will Tyrann Mathieu least miss facing?

“Russell Wilson,” Mathieu said without hesitation in a recent interview that was aired earlier today on PFT Live. “No doubt about it. He’s one of the most underrated players in the National Football League. I think if the Seattle Seahawks didn’t have him I don’t think they would be as dominant. He’s definitely one of the best players in the game.”

“I’ve had the chance to play against him maybe 10 times already,” Mathieu said. “He’s been one of the greatest competitors. . . . One of the most comfortable players, poised players I’ve ever played against. He does things that you can’t coach. That’s what makes players special. Obviously, Seattle had a great defense, right? The last five, six years? I think they kind of overshadowed him a little bit. It’s no doubt that the guys that played against Russell Wilson, they know what kind of player he is.”

 

[TwistedHusky]

The problem with Wilson is we really do not know.

Nobody does.

He is often crappy in the 1st half but there have been games where we get behind and he immediately starts matching them for TDs. So it might be the weird close to the vest type of offense that holds him back. It might be the terrible line. It might be a lot of things.

He has abilities, like the ability to throw well on the run or somehow get better vision on the run - that translate well to overcoming the issues with the line and some of the other problems with the framework of how the team is put together or applied.

Now, if you take those away does he get immediately better?

Well, multiple games where there are no breakdowns he still seems to have problems. But, he could be conditioned by now into bad habits. Can those be unlearned?

His issue is consistency, not ability. But at some point this team has to make a 30M bet that he can be consistent. If he can, then maybe we have a chance - though we will have gutted the team to afford him and some of the issues he has to overcome might be magnified because of the holes in this team.

He isn't close to elite NOW. Not in terms of consistency but he is without a doubt the most dangerous QB in the league and one of the most difficult to prepare for. If you grade him as Elite, then it has to be on potential - you would be giving him credit for all the issues he has to face and adjust them accordingly. But without regular production in the first 3 quarters, without being able to consistently deliver and carry a team like an elite QB does? No.

Can he be elite? He seems to flash it and if he can produce like he does in flashes consistently then he can be amazing. But that those kind of projections don't always work. We are kind of stuck having to hope so though, because that is what we got.

 

[original poster]

I agree with TH on a lot of the above.

I'd love to see his consistency improve, I hope a lot of his drawbacks will be eliminated with the removal of Bevell. Lets hope!

 

[IndyHawk]

I agree with TH on a lot of the above.

I'd love to see his consistency improve, I hope a lot of his drawbacks will be eliminated with the removal of Bevell. Lets hope!

Hoping and waiting is dangerous because as he gets older..The less effective he will be
with less speed and he becomes worth less .
That is why paying him up to 40 million scares me enough to not want that.
We have been waiting for some time now and it hinges on a new offense?
That is like a 50/50 thing and it shouldn't have to come to that.

 

[fire_marshall_bill]

If you're a stat nerd wearing a pocket protector at work with tape on your glasses or in your mother's basement, maybe not

If you're looking at wins and how he helps his team, yes

I'd take him over guys like Matt Ryan, Luck, and Eli Manning in a heartbeat. It's not close. He's up around Roethlisberger and Breezzze