Baldwin takes shot at Goodell

[Uncle Si]

Rog is not the victim in this, he is getting his just desserts IMHO!

Rofl, I'm calling you out the next time you claim to want to wait for all the facts whenever a player's accused of something. Next Seahawk that gets popped for something, you best be assuming guilt right off the bat. Just sayin'.

you dont have to assume guilt to take responsible action

 

[El Caliente]

Baldwin is on point with his tweet. When Goodell stuck it to the Saints for a fraud bounty system, he said that ignorance is not an excuse. Well Rog, ignorance isn't an excuse, see you next year.

 

[DavidSeven]

How exactly are those two situations comparable?

Sean Payton was punished because one of his coordinators was running a bounty program right under his nose. Of course, ignorance is no excuse there.

The whole issue with the Goodell thing is whether or not HE actually saw the full tape and handed out an appropriate punishment in response. If some corporate grunt left a package unopened under his desk, how does that translate to Goodell watching the tape? Isn't that what all this uproar is about -- that he saw the tape and didn't do enough? Ignorance of the full tape is precisely what's supposed to make him "innocent."

It's really like people don't even know what they're mad about anymore. They're obsessing over finding this "gotcha" moment that they can hang this dude on, even if it bears no relation to actual culpability.

 

[Subzero717]

No. The thought is he either watched the tape or chose not to see the tape so he could say he never did. His claim that they asked for the tape and werent granted access to it is, to some, ridiculous.

As far as the ignorance is no excuse, if someone at the league office recieved and viewed the tape and he didnt know than the comparison to Payton is valid. Ignorance is no excuse. Its a lack of institutional control so to speak.

 

[DavidSeven]

Ignorance is no excuse. Its a lack of institutional control so to speak.

Not trying to go back on forth on this topic, but you seriously think Sean Payton's ignorance to half his team and his D-coordinator's participation in an illegal bounty program is tantamount to Goodell being unaware that one employee may or may not have seen a tape? This is an employee we know nothing about. We don't know his status in the league, his office location, his ability to affect disciplinary action, etc.

Again, as I mentioned in another thread, rational thought is going out the window here because people don't like Goodell. Are you similarly outraged that Newsome and Harbaugh didn't demand the tape from Rice? How would you feel if our owner or our coach was in this position? Would you demand that Pete or Paul step down because some area scout watched a tape and didn't tell them about it?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Ignorance is no excuse. Its a lack of institutional control so to speak.

Not trying to go back on forth on this topic, but you seriously think Sean Payton's ignorance to half his team and his D-coordinator's participation in an illegal bounty program is tantamount to Goodell being unaware that one employee may or may not have seen a tape? This is an employee we know nothing about. We don't know his status in the league, his office location, his ability to affect disciplinary action, etc.

Again, as I mentioned in another thread, rational thought is going out the window here because people don't like Goodell. Are you similarly outraged that Newsome and Harbaugh didn't demand the tape from Rice? How would you feel if our owner or our coach was in this position? Would you demand that Pete or Paul step down because some area scout watched a tape and didn't tell them about it?

You expect a team to maybe cover up a player's action, because they want to win...........that's where Goodell is suppose to come in and be the independent disciplinarian because he knows the team might not act in the best interest of the league. That's HIS job.

This is very black and white for me. Goodell poured over 150,000 documents with Spygate, and suspended Payton for an entire year..........and he can't be bothered to look at one three minute video of one of his player's beating his wife? That's BS. So either he's lying.........or purposefully didn't watch the video so he could cry ignorance. Which is WORSE!

 

[El Caliente]

How exactly are those two situations comparable?

Sean Payton was punished because one of his coordinators was running a bounty program right under his nose. Of course, ignorance is no excuse there.

The whole issue with the Goodell thing is whether or not HE actually saw the full tape and handed out an appropriate punishment in response. If some corporate grunt left a package unopened under his desk, how does that translate to Goodell watching the tape? Isn't that what all this uproar is about -- that he saw the tape and didn't do enough? Ignorance of the full tape is precisely what's supposed to make him "innocent."

It's really like people don't even know what they're mad about anymore. They're obsessing over finding this "gotcha" moment that they can hang this dude on, even if it bears no relation to actual culpability.

But the issue is that there is no proof that Sean knew a bounty program was going on.There was proof that Williams was tied to it, but the reason Goodell said "ignorance isn't an excuse" is because he couldn't find anything on Sean Payton knowing about a bounty program, but just in case he was going to suspend him because he should have known what was going on. The leagues evidence never shows Payton knowing about a bounty program, they were just cya'ing it.

http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/ ... rt_m-rpt-2

If it's good for the Saints (being punished because they should have known) it should be good for Goodell (being punished because he should have left no stone unturned).

The biggest joke about the Bounty issue is that, as a forensic accountant (which is what I am) we deal in cover ups, and find out where money is coming from and where it is going to. The evidence that the NFL came out with didn't show any of that, it was just a bunch of power point slides. No proof of a money exchange, no proof other than somebody knows how to operate microsoft office.

But leave the bounty stuff out of the equation. Higher ups get fired every day for a failure on their part to be aware of internal controls. Fire Goodell for not moving heaven and earth to make sure he had every ounce of evidence, and wouldn't have people coming back and saying "I showed him." You document all of that, so that they can't.

 

[Kaiser]

Future NFLPA Chairman Doug Baldwin

 

[Milehighhawk]

Future NFLPA Chairman Doug Baldwin

Doug Baldwin is too much of a hot head to have such a position.

 

[Erebus]

There is a very fine line between willful ignorance and dereliction of duty. If Goodell didn't see the tape, it's because he didn't try hard enough, and probably didn't want to. It was his duty to review all evidence before making a decision.

In most (maybe all) lines of work, you are responsible for those under you, whether as a commissioner, head coach, etc. If something happens under your purview, such as an employee viewing the tape (it's hard to fathom an employee seeing that tape and not letting Goodell know about it) or an assistant coach running a bounty program, you are ultimately responsible. Not doing enough to find out about it is no excuse. That's how these two situations are similar. In both situations, ignorance (whether willful or not) led to dereliction of duty.

In my line of work (the military), dereliction of duty will always lead to a commander getting fired.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Rog is not the victim in this, he is getting his just desserts IMHO!

Rofl, I'm calling you out the next time you claim to want to wait for all the facts whenever a player's accused of something. Next Seahawk that gets popped for something, you best be assuming guilt right off the bat. Just sayin'.

you dont have to assume guilt to take responsible action

Thank you, you said it better than I did.

 

[DavidSeven]

So, I suppose all you folks here believe the NCAA was justified in dropping the hammer on Pete and USC for Reggie Bush's actions? Personally, I think he and that school got screwed (and I'm a UW fan).

Be careful to not corner yourself into a moral position that you cannot argue out. Issues are not black and white.

And again, please clarify what you are outraged about. "He saw the tape!" "He didn't see the tape!" Who gives a lick? Why do we care? Bottom line: he misjudged the public's reaction to the punishment he gave Rice. That statement is true whether he saw the full tape or the version showing her being dragged out of an elevator. He conceded that point before the second tape even came out. This whole tape nonsense is just noise, and the whole "independent investigation" is a colossal waste of time that is being spurred on folks who keep harping on an utterly immaterial point. Whether he saw the tape 5 months ago or 5 days does not change my position on whether he is evil or good. He knew what happened before the video evidence came out. He (and all his advisers) made a calculated decision on punishment and misjudged the public's reaction. End of story. People act like the league was making some moral judgment here. No. The league doesn't react off its own emotions; it reacts based on what they expect the public to think. This was not a moral judgment on the league's part. It was an underestimation of public sensitivity. There is no nefarious conspiracy.

I'm not even trying to defend Goodell here. I could care less what happens at the end of this. What bothers me is people jumping on a Twitter-rage bandwagon without being able to even articulate what they're so deeply upset about with this tape nonsense. If it's just that he lied, then OK. That shouldn't be condoned, but let's not pretend that this is the first time a CEO or politician has withheld the truth to protect PR. The NFL is a private business, and they're not going to lose money because its CEO tried to spin a story.

 

[kearly]

Not trying to go back on forth on this topic, but you seriously think Sean Payton's ignorance to half his team and his D-coordinator's participation in an illegal bounty program is tantamount to Goodell being unaware that one employee may or may not have seen a tape? This is an employee we know nothing about. We don't know his status in the league, his office location, his ability to affect disciplinary action, etc.

I think what you are missing is that most people assume that Goodell did see the tape, and is lying about it. There isn't any direct evidence proving it yet, but there's a lot of evidence that suggests he probably saw it and it's EXTREMELY OBVIOUS that he's in "cover-up" mode, ala Richard Nixon. As the saying goes, "the cover-up is worse than the crime."

As far as people freaking out, I emphatically agree... it's ridiculous! But this has been the new normal for twitter to fuel mindless outrage, and it's been true ever since the Donald Sterling thought police scandal.

With regards to the "gotcha" comment, I fully admit to being guilty on that one. I would agree with you that a lot of the antipathy you are seeing for Goodell is coming from people who already wanted him gone before this, and are seizing an opportunity.

 

[El Caliente]

The NFL is actually a non-profit. If the right members of congress threatened to remove the league tax exempt status owners would change him out like a db changing his underpants after going up against Lynch.

Goodell can not say "ignorance is not an excuse." and then not himself to the same regard. I mean he can, he doesn't answer to any of us, it is just two faced, and people have even less respect for him. I know if he was on fire in New Orleans people wouldn't waste an ounce of piss to help him, and they shouldn't.

 

[Subzero717]

So, I suppose all you folks here believe the NCAA was justified in dropping the hammer on Pete and USC for Reggie Bush's actions? Personally, I think he and that school got screwed (and I'm a UW fan).

Be careful to not corner yourself into a moral position that you cannot argue out. Issues are not black and white.

And again, please clarify what you are outraged about. "He saw the tape!" "He didn't see the tape!" Who gives a lick? Why do we care? Bottom line: he misjudged the public's reaction to the punishment he gave Rice. That statement is true whether he saw the full tape or the version showing her being dragged out of an elevator. He conceded that point before the second tape even came out. This whole tape nonsense is just noise, and the whole "independent investigation" is a colossal waste of time that is being spurred on folks who keep harping on an utterly immaterial point. Whether he saw the tape 5 months ago or 5 days does not change my position on whether he is evil or good. He knew what happened before the video evidence came out. He (and all his advisers) made a calculated decision on punishment and misjudged the public's reaction. End of story. People act like the league was making some moral judgment here. No. The league doesn't react off its own emotions; it reacts based on what they expect the public to think. This was not a moral judgment on the league's part. It was an underestimation of public sensitivity. There is no nefarious conspiracy.

I'm not even trying to defend Goodell here. I could care less what happens at the end of this. What bothers me is people jumping on a Twitter-rage bandwagon without being able to even articulate what they're so deeply upset about with this tape nonsense. If it's just that he lied, then OK. That shouldn't be condoned, but let's not pretend that this is the first time a CEO or politician has withheld the truth to protect PR. The NFL is a private business, and they're not going to lose money because its CEO tried to spin a story.

The difference in your comparison is Goodell was the judge, jury and executioner in the Saints bounty case.

 

[LymonHawk]

Any investigator worth their salt would have asked for all the tapes...and the NFL has some very good investigators...ex-FBI, etc. The only way Goodell does not see the tapes is if he doesn't want to. Remember, this is a Casino, where everything is taped.

Like may 'scandals,' the problem is more about the cover-up, then the actual act itself.

 

[RolandDeschain]

So, I suppose all you folks here believe the NCAA was justified in dropping the hammer on Pete and USC for Reggie Bush's actions? Personally, I think he and that school got screwed (and I'm a UW fan).

Be careful to not corner yourself into a moral position that you cannot argue out. Issues are not black and white.

Bingo. I've already equated it to having to believe Pete's a "cheater" for what Bush did regarding a lot of people's outlook on Goodell. I've been ignored about it.

I'll say this again, too. There's a lot of stank hypocrisy around the web and on here regarding this whole scenario. "Rice knocked his wife out...FIRE GOODELL TO FIX EVERYTHING!!!!!!111oneone"

 

[ivotuk]

The difference between Payton and Goodell is Williams was Sean's right hand man. We don't even know if this nfl employee actually exists, if he actually has a position of responsibility, or where he is in relation to Goodell. He could be an intern that would cap his pants if he got in the same room with Roger.

People are focusing on the figurehead, venting their emotions, while nothing concrete is done about the problem of domestic violence.

Mike Florio made one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read when he said the nfl is doing a shoddy job of protecting women from nfl players. How exactly are they supposed to do that?

And where is the NFLPA in all this?

 

[RolandDeschain]

And where is the NFLPA in all this?

Riding that fence in Switzerland pretty hard, thus far.

 

[Subzero717]

So, I suppose all you folks here believe the NCAA was justified in dropping the hammer on Pete and USC for Reggie Bush's actions? Personally, I think he and that school got screwed (and I'm a UW fan).

Be careful to not corner yourself into a moral position that you cannot argue out. Issues are not black and white.

Bingo. I've already equated it to having to believe Pete's a "cheater" for what Bush did regarding a lot of people's outlook on Goodell. I've been ignored about it.

I'll say this again, too. There's a lot of stank hypocrisy around the web and on here regarding this whole scenario. "Rice knocked his wife out...FIRE GOODELL TO FIX EVERYTHING!!!!!!111oneone"

I dont really see how they relate? Roger is saying NO ONE at the league office has seen it until now. Also, how you can compare a students parents living in a house in a different city to an emplyoee in the leagues building? I think some are focusing soley on that one issue. I dont think their point is if he did see the tape or not. Its he is lying. There is zero doubt he is, in my opinion.