Bevell is at it again... bad plays against a weak Defense

WmHBonney

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I thought it was really pretty simple. Marshawn had six carries. Until the end, we were never far enough behind to justify that. Even Turbin had no problem running over them early on. Why get away from our bread-n-butter? San Diego beat us at our own game. Time of possession. Feed the Beast!
 

RolandDeschain

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LymonHawk":1rihxkrc said:
We weren't at midfield. But our defense did stop them! Obviously, you and others do not have the faith our coaching staff has.

And if as you think, we couldn't stop SD from scoring at will, what difference would our scoring at the time make? Unless it took us 8:00 to score?

BTW: Anyone else think Okung had a bad day?
I consider anything between the 40s to be midfield, but we were a little further back than that - the 36. So, my bad. Still think with our defense getting reamed all day that going for it on 4th and two was the right call, all things considered.
 
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Tokadub

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Timmahawk":3c46auak said:
You guys blaming the offense are way off base. Sure, there were a few plays that were irritating, but the offense really had no shot to create momentum the entire game.

A: the kickoff fumble is a killer and kept the D on the field way too long.

B: the D couldn't stop anything on 3rd down, that also kept them on the field for too long.

C: Irvin's boneheaded penalty cost us 4 points, also kept the D on the field.

D: the 4th and 2 punt was absolutely the RIGHT call. The D got us the ball back with 3 mins, more than enough time to march downfield to win the game. If we go for it and don't get the first (less than 50%) chance, the game is essentially over since they would have basically been in field goal range.

E: The D had it's chances to make a number of plays and get the O the ball, they didn't and Rivers/Gates made the plays. It's as simple as that.

F: scoring quick is a great thing, it's not every week you play in 110 deg temp and none of the bounces go your way.

G: If we avg 7.2 yards per play all season, we go 15-1

I agree with most of that except that I think 10 drives is a chance for our Offense to gain momentum. Also these two points:

D: We were unlikely to even get the ball back without them getting at least a FG the way the game was going up until that point. Even if we did get the ball back we would be crunched for time and their crowd at that point would be going absolutely nuts. It's a lot harder to execute an offense when the home field crowd can smell the victory and their Defense smells blood with our struggling Offensive Line and a "Finesse" like game plan mixed with some bad calls. Plus their defense was barely on the field the whole game they were fresh while our offense did not have any chance to develop a strong rhythm offensively.

We saw how ugly that last drive was when we were pinned back at the 11 yard line. It's really not that surprising that we would have terrible field position even if we did get the ball back.

It was pretty clear to me that the 4th and 2 at the 36 yard line was our best shot to win the game. It is incorrect to say that we would have less than a 50% chance to convert the 4th and 2. We converted over 54% last season even with all our backup Offensive Linemen and no Harvin. Good Teams like Denver can convert nearly 90% over the course of the season.

Our Offense was kicking some serious booty out there from a Yards Per Attempt standpoint, I think we had at least an 80% chance to pick up that first down. If we can't pick up 2 yards with arguably the 3 best play-makers in the game (Wilson, Lynch, Harvin) then it was probably a bad play call to begin with.

Wilson is so clutch he must of been crushed to not get that chance to win the game even though he's played so well for his entire career and already won us a Super Bowl... it was a bad choice to punt that ball.

F: Scoring quickly is not actually that great of a game plan for a team that prioritizes protecting the ball and playing solid defense. Ideally you want to win the time of possession game so your defense is fresh, especially when it's like 100 degrees on the field.

Obviously our coaches had no idea how bad our Defense would play but they did not appear to have any intention of using our dominant run game to eat up the clock.

When you're playing on the road against one of the best offenses in the league in sweltering heat you should prioritize winning the time of possession. Unless they expected our Defense to get non-stop 3 and outs all day (which is unrealistic IMO, I had the Chargers scoring 20 points in my official prediction but I was honestly bordering on giving them 23 or 27 but that seemed like I was just being paranoid at the time...), well then our offensive game plan was pretty awful.

But punting on 4th and 2 in that situation was really the nail in the coffin for us.
 
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Tokadub

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DavidSeven":3f3kevqh said:
If you're putting this one on Bevell, then you're just looking for ways to throw him under the bus. The play calling was not an issue today.

SD employed the same strategy it used against Denver in the playoffs - milk the entire clock on dink and dunk passing. Rivers' ability to convert on 3rd down was what won them the game. This loss had nothing to do with offensive play calling. If you extrapolate our efficiency to a better T.O.P., we'd score 35-40 points.

Really you think Lynch having 6 carries compared to the Chargers 37 is "looking for an excuse to throw him under the bus"?

The best way to counter a team when they are eating up the clock is to do so yourself, and the best way to eat the clock is to run the ball which we didn't do even though it was VERY effective when we did (nearly 9 yards per carry).

Using your defense to shut down the opposing offense is a given, that game plan will never change. The only way to truly counter a team eating up the clock is to attempt to do so yourself offensively. I saw no effort on our part to win the time of possession.

If we were trying out a new "finesse LMAO AT CHARGER" strategy where we don't use Lynch and Harvin... well we couldn't have picked a worst game. We were on the road, it felt like over 100 degrees on the field, and if any QB in the entire league could get 1st downs on us consistently it's Philip Rivers who had the highest Completion Rate last season 69.5% which is laughably significantly lower than what he did to us tonight.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/completionPct/year/2013

The way we called this game right from the start was bad. Running with Turbin (when Lynch only had 1 previous carry), throwing backfield passes to Walters (WALTERS HAD 27 YARDS RECEIVING IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER WHEN WE CALLED THAT PLAY... GOING BACK TO 2011...), or running on 3rd and 19 (when Wilson has a legit chance to make that play with any one of our incredibly talented Wide Receivers, Tight Ends, or even Running Backs...) you would have thought we were at home in the 4th quarter with a 20 point lead. There was nothing physical about what we did today offensively other than Lynch's 6 rushes... which might be a career low for him as a Seahawk starter (I don't even know)?

The Defense needed our help this time and we failed to deliver a quality offensive game plan.
 
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Tokadub

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Timmahawk":1gox4zit said:
RolandDeschain":1gox4zit said:
Timmahawk":1gox4zit said:
7.2 yards per play...
Yeah, what'd that get us, again?

A defense that couldn't do S on third down? Or is that a trick question? Do you want our offense to be more or less efficient for the rest of the season?

You do realize that without the 51 yard Harvin run where he stepped out of bounds we'd only have a 6.1 Yards Per Play Average right?

Certainly I think 7.2 or 6.1 Yards Per Play justifies going for it on 4th and 2 when we have 3 of the NFL's best offensive play makers.

But if you subtract that one play where the officials appeared to blow the call... I donno 6.1 Yards Per Play ain't something to write home about when you lose and can't even hold onto the ball for 18 minutes by the end of the game.
 
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bbsplitter":3n4446ge said:
I am really confused now. Of course it is highly situational. That's why we have a O.C. Each play is it's own situation, which he must make a call for. That play, that he just called, results in X amount of yards, which are averaged into a statistic. If you call crappy plays, the statistic will be lower. That's not to say he didn't have few head-scratchers, but a couple of them might have involved more of Pete's offensive game plan versus something creative that Bevell could have dialed up. I don't agree with them, but to completely dismiss yards per play as showing Bevell had an overall good game.. is a fallacy in my opinion.

I think the issue in this game was that our high Yards Per Play wasn't as helpful since we didn't do anything to help keep our Defense off the field.

Against a bad Defense like the Chargers it might be expected to have a high Yards Per Play when you have so many talented and explosive Offensive players. What's unexpected for me at least is that we ran the ball as a team 13 times compared to the Charger's 37.

It's surprising that the Chargers more than doubled our time of possession forcing our Defense to play the QB with highest completion percentage (from last season) for over 42 minutes.

And what's most surprising is that we didn't seem to do a dang thing to help our Defense with our Offensive play calling on a day where the field was basically a frying pan.

For a comparison the Cardinals averaged 6.2 Yards Per Play against the Chargers in Week 1, which is higher than what we had if you subtract the one 51 yard out of bounds play by Harvin. Would anyone be impressed by us matching the Cardinals offensively?

At least the Cardinals were able to win the time of possession even though they had 2 turnovers...

The Cardinals ran the ball 26 times which is absolutely crucial when going up against an Offensive Juggernaut like the Chargers... unless your team is playing lights out Defense in comfortable conditions.
 

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RolandDeschain":1klcpgno said:
LymonHawk":1klcpgno said:
To those of you who think we should have gone for it on fourth and two.......hindsight is a wonderful thing. IF we had scored on our final drive; would you still be singing the same tune? :les:
You have no reason to believe me, but yes, I would be. When your defense isn't stopping anything ALL DAY LONG and you're at midfield on 4th & two, (really 1.5) down by six, with eight minutes remaining...You go for it in that situation. Always. In my opinion. If our defense was playing its usual very good self, different situation; but are you honestly going to tell me, Lymon, that you expected our defense to get a stop as we were preparing to punt? It sure wasn't likely, that's for certain.

Concur. Win or lose, that's a "go" situation in my book.
 

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redeye81":2tfv3drk said:
4th and 2 punt KILLED US in this game... I was screaming why the FFFFF do you not go for it??? We could' t stop them and we were driving.. wow at least others were seeing this as I was...

Last season we were one of the worst teams in the league at converting 3rd and 4th and short, so I have no problem with punting in that situation. Giving them the ball at our 36 with the ball carrying like it does on a hot day would have almost certainly led to 3 points and made it a two score game with less than 5 minutes by the time our offense got the ball back again. Even though they were having a bad day, we still have the best defense in the league and you have to put your faith in them. Play to your strength, and don't try to overcome a weakness when you're on the road and the game's on the line. Punting was the absolute right decision IMO.

I'm usually one of the harshest critics of Pete's game management, but I didn't see anything that he could have done differently that would have increased our chances of winning.
 

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redeye81":kkj04cn5 said:
If Russell made that fist down we score on that drive.. That is frustrating.. he was a 1 and 1/2 short...

If Wilson was 6'5 he reaches for the first down ;)
 
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themunn":1k1wspxq said:
redeye81":1k1wspxq said:
If Russell made that fist down we score on that drive.. That is frustrating.. he was a 1 and 1/2 short...

If Wilson was 6'5 he reaches for the first down ;)

Ohhhh, you guys went there.

:roll:
 

Largent80

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If your defense allows continuous 1st downs on a hot day, you are done in any football league. Hell, it doesn't even need to be hot and a loss is probable.

We scored 21, pretty good considering we were on the road, playing a decent team in dreadful conditions (I was there, I know) plus add all the terrible LB plays, and penalties.

Not on the O.C. no matter what anyone says, nor the walls of text trying to explain why.
 

RiverDog

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LymonHawk":2am1zg85 said:
We weren't at midfield. But our defense did stop them! Obviously, you and others do not have the faith our coaching staff has.

And if as you think, we couldn't stop SD from scoring at will, what difference would our scoring at the time make? Unless it took us 8:00 to score?

BTW: Anyone else think Okung had a bad day?

Indeed, we were at the 36. Pete did the right thing to punt and play field position, and as a consequence, we did get the ball back with two timeouts, the 2 minute warning, and plenty of time left to mount a scoring drive. Besides, if we couldn't even get a single first down on our last drive, I don't know what it is that gives you so much confidence that we would have driven 60 yards for a TD had we been successful on 4th and 2.

And as Lymon stated, if you don't have confidence in stopping the Chargers, even if we do score a TD on that possession, there would almost certainly been enough time left for them to at least get into FG range. It was way too early to engage in such a desperate act as going for it on 4th and 2 in your own territory.
 

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The defense lost this game. Our offensive play calling had nothing to do with it.
 

FargoHawk

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If you watched this game and thought our O was the problem, then I question your knowledge as a football fan.

Add - except for Okung. Our tackles were a major disappointment yesterday. Freeney and Ingram dominated our Oline.
 

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They had the ball less than 18 minutes, and scored 21 fricken points. Sure they could have ran the ball a little more. But the D was the problem yesterday.
 

Jacknut16

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RiverDog":3kipyh95 said:
redeye81":3kipyh95 said:
4th and 2 punt KILLED US in this game... I was screaming why the FFFFF do you not go for it??? We could' t stop them and we were driving.. wow at least others were seeing this as I was...

Last season we were one of the worst teams in the league at converting 3rd and 4th and short, so I have no problem with punting in that situation. Giving them the ball at our 36 with the ball carrying like it does on a hot day would have almost certainly led to 3 points and made it a two score game with less than 5 minutes by the time our offense got the ball back again. Even though they were having a bad day, we still have the best defense in the league and you have to put your faith in them. Play to your strength, and don't try to overcome a weakness when you're on the road and the game's on the line. Punting was the absolute right decision IMO.

I'm usually one of the harshest critics of Pete's game management, but I didn't see anything that he could have done differently that would have increased our chances of winning.


The problem is the defense was GASSED, I mean completely GASSED. The offense needed to pick up the defense on one of those two drives and it didnt. And Pete took away one of its chances by punting the ball back to the Chargers and putting our out of gas defense back on the field. Baffling move by everyone Ive talked to in person yesterday.
 

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FargoHawk":3c6v7cnn said:
If you watched this game and thought our O was the problem, then I question your knowledge as a football fan.

Add - except for Okung. Our tackles were a major disappointment yesterday. Freeney and Ingram dominated our Oline.

The defense was the problem, but the offense needed to pick us up and had two chances yesterday and couldnt move the ball against a weak defense.

The reason why the our defense was so ineffective was because Rivers and company kept us on the field. We needed the offense to return the favor in the 4th Q and we couldnt. You cant just keep putting the defense on the field like that.
 

onanygivensunday

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Largent80":344r7k35 said:
Not on the O.C. no matter what anyone says, nor the walls of text trying to explain why.
What I didn't like was running plays for Lockette and Walters when we have Harvin, Baldwin, Kearse, Lynch and Turbin.

Message to Bevell... run plays for our playmakers... not for our fringe players.
 

LymonHawk

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FargoHawk":105z2itn said:
If you watched this game and thought our O was the problem, then I question your knowledge as a football fan.

Add - except for Okung. Our tackles were a major disappointment yesterday. Freeney and Ingram dominated our Oline.

And I question your knowledge of football if you don't believe the Oline is part of the offense.

How many times was RW scrambling for his life, versus how many times did he have time in the pocket?
 
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