Broad jump is the key to everything on the OL

[CPHawk]

There are also reverse exceptions. Josh Garnett is a good example. He didn't test well, but watch his tape and he is a drive blocking master.

Pop in his tape of him vs Buckner, DeFo owned him for the most part pushing him around and throwing him out of the way, all with one hand. We'll see how Garnett actually does vs NFL guys every week.

 

[penihawk]

I'm sure broad jump is key factor in assessing the physical parameters of players the team would consider as is arm length and the other 30-9-27 parameters. I doubt it's a hard and fast rule that permits no exceptions though. .

Since 2012, every single player they've drafted is 9' or more on broad jump. It's been absolute, whereas bench, vert, arm length have not.

We know from other positions that Seattle has certain traits that they consider absolute, such as 32" arms on corners. The evidence seems to suggest that such a rule also exists for OL and broad jump.

The funny thing is, Tom Cable did draft exactly one OL with a sub-9' broad jump, and that was John Moffitt in 2011. Moffitt was in Cable's doghouse from day one and was a plodder on the field. I wouldn't be surprised if Cable's emphasis on the broad jump stemmed from his deep regrets over the John Moffitt selection.

There indeed may be a 9' rule in place but Moffitt failed miserably on 3 much bigger things. Competitiveness,intelligence & the love for football. He could of broad jumped across Puget Sound and he was still gonna fail due to the mental makeup of the guy.

I would bet Unger knew all 5 linemen's assignment on every play and that is the part of his game missing that hurt us the most last year. I'm guessing that is the area Sokoli is no where ready to be the starting C. They might want to look at the results of their BJ criteria in correlation with experience,football intelligence & toughness/nastyness and see what the data shows? I would challenge my mental criteria is more important than 5 jumpers getting beat like a drum week in & week out.

 

[bjornanderson21]

I would just like to point out that the Hawks have not done a good job of drafting OL.

If the Hawks are going to draft the same type of OL that hasn't worked out for us, then why would anyone think it would work this time?

I would be very disappointed if they draft the same type of busts in a draft supposedly loaded in OL talent. Kind of like how we ended up with Richardson and Norwood in a draft with stellar WR talent.

 

[Subzero717]

I would just like to point out that the Hawks have not done a good job of drafting OL.

If the Hawks are going to draft the same type of OL that hasn't worked out for us, then why would anyone think it would work this time?

I would be very disappointed if they draft the same type of busts in a draft supposedly loaded in OL talent. Kind of like how we ended up with Richardson and Norwood in a draft with stellar WR talent.

Hang on when it comes to Richardson. Harper, Norwood, Durham yes. Too early and a different mold for PRich.

 

[poplarbluffman]

Kirwan measures power...sparq athleticism and short times(3 cone/shuttle) feet..all three different

they all matter along with hand punch(zero test) and ego/intelligence and passion
from that list really like Thuney, McGovern, Theus and Shell...no scores yet on Shon Coleman but very long arms and as I posted like more then Robinson as a tackle
bet Seattle will like Germain Ifedi and Le'Raven Clark


http://www.nfldraftresearch.com/

 

[penihawk]

All this discussion got me thinking about a mock based off 9' broad and explosion numbers. Here is the Hawks "All Explosion Draft"

RD1) (26) - JASON SPRIGGS OT INDIANA
RD2) (56) - JAVON HARGRAVE DT S. CAROLINA ST
RD3) (90) - ERIC MURRAY CB MINN
RD3) (97) - CONNOR MCGOVERN G/C MISSOURI
RD4) (124)- DANIEL LASCO RB CAL
RD5) (171) - JOE DAHL OL WA ST
RD6) (215) - MATT JUDON DE GV ST
RD7) (228)- DAN VITALE FB NORTHWESTERN
RD7) (250) - AARON WALLACE OLB UCLA
There are players left off due to trying to be realistic with this. Feel free to critique and post your own.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

When Sheldon Rankins can jump 34 inches and 9-10 in the vertical and broad respectively -- and you're expecting a guy to block him who jumps 28 and 8-8, that's a complete and utter mismatch.

In fact it's really no different physically than, for example, Megatron going up against a smaller, 190lbs cornerback.

We as Seahawks fans tend to live in a fishbowl and focus on our own O-line. Virtually the entire NFL is struggling on the O-line. Even the Cowboys with their three first round picks ranked in the average band for pass pro in 2015 according to Football Outsiders.

Everyone in the league is trying to find the formula. The Seahawks are trying to find physically comparable players to the guys playing defense. If you equalise the physical battle and trust your O-line coach (seattle does) then it looks like a good plan.

The idea that functional, technical blockers in college will just translate is very sketchy. Most of these blockers are playing extreme spread, quick passing, shotgun QB with a seven step thrown in too. Master that scheme and you're still starting again at the next level. See Luke Joekel.

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

When Sheldon Rankins can jump 34 inches and 9-10 in the vertical and broad respectively -- and you're expecting a guy to block him who jumps 28 and 8-8, that's a complete and utter mismatch.

In fact it's really no different physically than, for example, Megatron going up against a smaller, 190lbs cornerback.

We as Seahawks fans tend to live in a fishbowl and focus on our own O-line. Virtually the entire NFL is struggling on the O-line. Even the Cowboys with their three first round picks ranked in the average band for pass pro in 2015 according to Football Outsiders.

Everyone in the league is trying to find the formula. The Seahawks are trying to find physically comparable players to the guys playing defense. If you equalise the physical battle and trust your O-line coach (seattle does) then it looks like a good plan.

The idea that functional, technical blockers in college will just translate is very sketchy. Most of these blockers are playing extreme spread, quick passing, shotgun QB with a seven step thrown in too. Master that scheme and you're still starting again at the next level. See Luke Joekel.

I think I follow what you're intending here. If I mistunderstand your point and my words are a different conversation than you intend, I don't intend to detract from that. But, I'll respond to what I take as more philosophical than cut and dried.

You make a point, but NFL truisms don't always correlate. Russell Wilson is too short to see over an NFL line, so he ALWAYS is utterly mismatched against the competition. The truth is... sometimes it can present a problem. But, not utterly so.
I'm being serious here. I would say "apparent" mismatches, but not necessarily "utter" mismatches. IF that's the case, then it will be true on every play. That's never the case.

You might contend most of the time, therefore better. Perhaps. But, I still contend that college tape and production are FAR better indicators than scores in the Underwear Olympics - if comparing the two exclusively. Nothing sketchy about that. But, one can have their subjective opinion. I wouldn't say it's either/or. It's both/and. Players may have the tools, but not know how to use what they've got better than how a player less gifted makes up for what he lacks in other ways.

Not trying to emphasize exceptions to the rule, but that measurements don't necessarily define the game of a "player." I'm all about being excited over measureables, too, somewhat like the next guy. But, I just want the Hawks to draft FOOTBALL players. Not merely potential from numbers on a timer or measuring tape.

I do agree with creating potential mismatches... with GOOD football players.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

The idea that functional, technical blockers in college will just translate is very sketchy. Most of these blockers are playing extreme spread, quick passing, shotgun QB with a seven step thrown in too. Master that scheme and you're still starting again at the next level. See Luke Joekel.

I tend to think this kind of thinking/misunderstanding goes hand in hand with the generic 'draft a stud XXX to fix a problem' idea that one sees with a fair bit of frequency.

You can't draft what isn't there. College isn't preparing OL candidates to perform at the NFL level because the threshold for functional talent is just far too low. You can scheme to alleviate lack of OL skill in college in a way you simply can't in the pros. Colleges want to win too, and adopting changes that mitigate lack of technical refinement and allow for 'quality' production makes winning easier at the lower levels.

If that's true that Sokoli needs another year to redshirt, then that even more highlights the potential issues with the entire Defensive Line to Offensive Line conversion strategy. Here's a scenario I could easily see playing out ...

I don't see it as having issues per se. Honestly if you can get a 2 year starter from rounds 5 through UDFA then that's a significant win on the investment. You might only get about 10% of guys picked in that range to produce at a similar result.

Seattle has actually admitted that this is not their plan A. On at least two occasions in different years, Cable has admitted that they had targeted guys higher in the draft, but were forced to switch to backup plans and development projects because of overdrafting of talent.

Some might suggest that we should ante up and do the same. But the results of overdrafting OL talent is really quite bad. It's the draft equivalent of throwing good money after bad. Teams that fail at that generally have a tough time climbing out of that hole. Seattle has done well to maintain success by NOT falling in that trap.

Sometimes the best picks you make are the ones you don't make.

Where this gets sticky is when you draft a guy in day 1 or 2 and still have to sit him on the bench for a year or more. Sokoli was taken at #214 in the draft. Humphries was taken at #24 and Jake Fisher were taken at 53. They have produced about the same as Sokoli.

If Sokoli is in the competition mix this time next year, I would consider that pick to be well worthwhile. The concept of developing R6/R7 guys into competitive players in their 3rd and 4th years is sound. It's pretty much like 'found money'.