Bronco's board Luck vs. Wilson debate

[Smellyman]

Well, Wilson has better players around him, which somehow magically means that he can't be as good as luck...:/

But Wilson has better stats and did it with pedestrian receivers right?

this is the argument that drives me nuts. excuses made for Luck and Kaep, but never for Wilson (he doesn't need excuses)

Luck - EXCUSE doesn't have weapons FACT - wayne/hilton/fleenor, great pass protecting OL

Kaep - EXCUSE - Crabtree was hurt,....FACT - kaep has the best OL in football, Gore, Davis, Boldin et al....

Wilson - no EXCUSES, yet 3/5 ol hurt, no rice, no harvin and pedestrian receivers, oh its all lynch.

stupid

Yet Wilson just leads to wins, super bowl AND better stats.

 

[uncle fester]

Russ could win 5 super bowls, but as long as he has guys like Lynch, Sherman and Kam on his team he will never be considered the QB he is because he didn't do it single handed. It's a strange phenomenon with many fans, that a QB has to throw for 350 yards a game to be considered elite, even if he doesn't win games.

THIS is what fantasy football has done to the reality of football.

Nailed it.

 

[volsunghawk]

Why do we care so much about Andrew Luck? Honest question.

He's not in the division. He's not even in the same conference. He's a great player. Does ESPN and co overrate him? Probably.. but that doesn't diminish the fact he absolutely is a very talented quarterback.

I just .. never understand this debate. Luck's great. Wilson's great. The end.

I understand why there's a debate... guys from the same draft class playing at impressive levels early in their careers. It's a natural debate to have.

What I don't understand is why people here get so worked up over whether someone rates Luck higher than (or even on par with) Wilson. Football is a game that is so interdependent. Every QB is dependent on his surrounding cast, and that fact makes evaluating each QB's skill in a vacuum pretty much impossible.

I'm of the opinion that with what each QB has shown thus far in the league, that both are on their way to elite status. I think if Luck was our QB from the start of 2012 and Wilson was the Indy QB, we'd still have a SB ring and the Colts would still be the class of the AFC South and regular playoff contenders. And I think that because of the other 52 guys on each team's roster. Wilson and Luck are both incredible, but they don't do it alone.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I don't care if someone picks Luck over Wilson nothing wrong with that..

This kind of logic and sense doesn't fly on this board mister. If one of our players is being attacked by evil doers, we have to attack back with the ferocity of a 1,000 dying suns.

 

[huskylawyer]

Deadspin nailed the Luck love with this quote:

By the way, Frankengoober here threw seven interceptions in two playoff games last season. If his name were Colin Kaepernick, that stat alone would launch five thousand different First Take segments. Is he not clutch? Did he provoke those interceptions? Were they cornball throws? But this is Andrew Luck, and so seven horrible picks are simply part of the learning process.

 

[hawkfan68]

Russ could win 5 super bowls, but as long as he has guys like Lynch, Sherman and Kam on his team he will never be considered the QB he is because he didn't do it single handed. It's a strange phenomenon with many fans, that a QB has to throw for 350 yards a game to be considered elite, even if he doesn't win games.

THIS is what fantasy football has done to the reality of football.

I hear the hammer hitting the nail. Great post and point, Seahawkgal!

 

[Hawkpower]

I don't care if someone picks Luck over Wilson nothing wrong with that..

This kind of logic and sense doesn't fly on this board mister. If one of our players is being attacked by evil doers, we have to attack back with the ferocity of a 1,000 dying suns.

I think its fine to pick Luck over Wilson.

The only problem is that there is no data or proof he is better, so what are you basing it on, his beard?

 

[Steve2222]

Russ could win 5 super bowls, but as long as he has guys like Lynch, Sherman and Kam on his team he will never be considered the QB he is because he didn't do it single handed. It's a strange phenomenon with many fans, that a QB has to throw for 350 yards a game to be considered elite, even if he doesn't win games.

I don't think that it's so much that as it is, a difference of opinion. If you are going by stats then Luck is your guy (much like Manning or Marino are your guy over Tom Brady). If you are going for a winner you go with Wilson or Brady over the Luck's, Manning's and Marino's, but you also have to accept with it that Wilson and Brady have more complete teams around them than Luck, Marino, and Manning, and football (unlike basketball) is a team sport, and it takes all 52 guys to win a title (something you guys are more than aware of as you just won a Super Bowl).

No if you're going by stats Wilson clearly beats Luck.

The reason is simple. People think Luck is doing it all by himself and Wilson is just driving the Lamborghini. What they fail to mention is that luck also plays in the worst division in the NFL, Wilson plays in the best' Luck has terrible playoff numbers, and Wilson has starred in the playoffs.

 

[WilsonMVP]

Obviously Luck just LOOKS like an ELITE QB and is top 5 allready...EVERYONE knows this. He just LOOKS so good and is elite and is the only man on the colts offense, he does it all by himself dont you know :roll:

 

[Sports Hernia]

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?232077-Luck-or-Wilson!

Interesting to see other fan's take on this oft mentioned debate. Pretty much plays out like you expect, with pretty much everyone backing Luck. Honestly I would have thought the Bronco's fans would be a little bit higher on Wilson as they saw him shred their D first hand, but it isn't so.

There is one guy supporting Wilson (Seahawks fan?). Maybe I'm just biased but he's been making the best argument.

Side note: are we more open to advanced football metrics than other fanbases? These Donkey fans really don't trust 'em it seems.

Their argument has nothing to do with stats and everything to do with the butthurt of getting curbstomped by 35 points in the Super Bowl.

 

[bmorepunk]

Why do we care so much about Andrew Luck? Honest question.

He's not in the division. He's not even in the same conference. He's a great player. Does ESPN and co overrate him? Probably.. but that doesn't diminish the fact he absolutely is a very talented quarterback.

I just .. never understand this debate. Luck's great. Wilson's great. The end.

I understand why there's a debate... guys from the same draft class playing at impressive levels early in their careers. It's a natural debate to have.

What I don't understand is why people here get so worked up over whether someone rates Luck higher than (or even on par with) Wilson. Football is a game that is so interdependent. Every QB is dependent on his surrounding cast, and that fact makes evaluating each QB's skill in a vacuum pretty much impossible.

I'm of the opinion that with what each QB has shown thus far in the league, that both are on their way to elite status. I think if Luck was our QB from the start of 2012 and Wilson was the Indy QB, we'd still have a SB ring and the Colts would still be the class of the AFC South and regular playoff contenders. And I think that because of the other 52 guys on each team's roster. Wilson and Luck are both incredible, but they don't do it alone.

This whole thing smacks of insecurity. This thread is about what Broncos fans are saying about Luck and Wilson on their board. This apparently matters. I'm sure a bunch of the same people worried about this get sensitive about someone saying someone else's wife or girlfriend is hotter than theirs.

Both players are very positive for their teams. I give zero <expletive> about anything except WIlson making this team better and winning. Luck makes his team better too, but that's not my deal. Both of them will flourish in the right situation and both of them would suck in the wrong situation.

 

[Sarlacc83]

Why do we care so much about Andrew Luck? Honest question.

He's not in the division. He's not even in the same conference. He's a great player. Does ESPN and co overrate him? Probably.. but that doesn't diminish the fact he absolutely is a very talented quarterback.

I just .. never understand this debate. Luck's great. Wilson's great. The end.

I understand why there's a debate... guys from the same draft class playing at impressive levels early in their careers. It's a natural debate to have.

What I don't understand is why people here get so worked up over whether someone rates Luck higher than (or even on par with) Wilson. Football is a game that is so interdependent. Every QB is dependent on his surrounding cast, and that fact makes evaluating each QB's skill in a vacuum pretty much impossible.

I'm of the opinion that with what each QB has shown thus far in the league, that both are on their way to elite status. I think if Luck was our QB from the start of 2012 and Wilson was the Indy QB, we'd still have a SB ring and the Colts would still be the class of the AFC South and regular playoff contenders. And I think that because of the other 52 guys on each team's roster. Wilson and Luck are both incredible, but they don't do it alone.

I agree with this one post, except for one caveat:

Wilson is already elite.

 

[BamKam]

Andrew Luck is overrated. He is a really good QB but if I have to hear another national pundit slob all over his knob one more time I am going to go berserk (which shouldn't be too long because they hype him up every chance they get.)

Luck will always have a "bad team" because the national media will always play the fiddle. He could be in much worse situations than he is right now. He has some serious talent at WR (Wayne and Hilton are no joke). Definately need an upgrade at running back.

Their defense is also not "terrible". 9th last year in points allowed.

The debate is stupid and no idea why Broncos fans even care. Still trying to cope with the scrimmage performance they gave us in the Super Bowl.

 

[Ramfan128]

It is impossible to know who is better, so this debate will go forever.

It's pretty simple to see both sides: you have people (mainly Seahawk fans) who want Wilson to be the best, and probably think he is. Then you have people (mainly Seahawk haters) that want to tear Wilson down.

It's both easy to build him up, and tear him down. And that is a unique situation IMO. It probably means he's somewhere in the middle. Above "great game manager" but below "elite".

I think he's a good player. But the way I try to think of things like this is, you have a completely average team in place and you can pick any QB - between Wilson and Luck, who would win you more games. I believe it's Luck, so I'd say that IMO Luck is better.

 

[ZagHawk]

If Luck had Marshawn Lynch, Percy Harvin, and the Seahawks defense backing him up. I'm pretty sure you would doubt his abilities as well.

 

[BlueTalons]

The short of it all is that these short-sighted fans keep selling Wilson short by giving him the short end of stick. Their arguments consistently come up short!

 

[Hawkpower]

It is impossible to know who is better, so this debate will go forever.

It's pretty simple to see both sides: you have people (mainly Seahawk fans) who want Wilson to be the best, and probably think he is. Then you have people (mainly Seahawk haters) that want to tear Wilson down.

It's both easy to build him up, and tear him down. And that is a unique situation IMO. It probably means he's somewhere in the middle. Above "great game manager" but below "elite".

I think he's a good player. But the way I try to think of things like this is, you have a completely average team in place and you can pick any QB - between Wilson and Luck, who would win you more games. I believe it's Luck, so I'd say that IMO Luck is better.

Humor us and justify quantitatively how he is less than elite.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Hawkpower]

If Luck had Marshawn Lynch, Percy Harvin, and the Seahawks defense backing him up. I'm pretty sure you would doubt his abilities as well.

For sure.

just like Joe Montana, Steve Young, Troy Aikman......

Oh wait those guys are all worshipped hall of fame members, not QB's who were considered game managers due to their supporting cast.....

Well, there goes that argument.

 

[Seahwkgal]

Russ could win 5 super bowls, but as long as he has guys like Lynch, Sherman and Kam on his team he will never be considered the QB he is because he didn't do it single handed. It's a strange phenomenon with many fans, that a QB has to throw for 350 yards a game to be considered elite, even if he doesn't win games.

THIS is what fantasy football has done to the reality of football.

I hear the hammer hitting the nail. Great post and point, Seahawkgal!

Why, thank you very much.((curtsy))

 

[bigDhawk]

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?232077-Luck-or-Wilson!

Interesting to see other fan's take on this oft mentioned debate. Pretty much plays out like you expect, with pretty much everyone backing Luck. Honestly I would have thought the Bronco's fans would be a little bit higher on Wilson as they saw him shred their D first hand, but it isn't so.

There is one guy supporting Wilson (Seahawks fan?). Maybe I'm just biased but he's been making the best argument.

Side note: are we more open to advanced football metrics than other fanbases? These Donkey fans really don't trust 'em it seems.

What should be expected from a fanbase that roots for the biggest FFB poster boy and regular season icon in NFL history? Denver wins or loses based purely on Peyton's fantasy numbers. If Manning isn't single-highhandedly winning fantasy leagues everywhere on any given week, the Donkos don't win. We, on the other hand, rush for 200 yards and pass for 200 yards (thereabouts) en route to beating arguably the second best team in the NFL by three touchdowns, while playing defense that makes their championship caliber offense look like clowns. If you are an opposing DC how do you gameplan against us? What's coming? We run as much as we pass as much as we run...

You know what's coming from Peyton Manning, and Andrew Luck for that matter, and if you can't stop it then that's on your lack of scheme, coaching, and talent. But how do you out-scheme, out-coach, or out-talent a team that dominates in all three phases with options to do anything on any play in any situation? That is championship football, as Denver found out in February.

If winning a fantasy league is the goal, you can have Luck and Manning. If you want to win Lombardi trophies, we'll take Wilson.