Bruce Irvin

[kobebryant]

Said it before, and I'll say it again; Irvin was a swing and miss. He can't find a position, and we passed on David DeCastro, who would have upgraded our interior line in a big way.

Decastro?? Irvin has been a significantly better player than Decastro to this point; who himself may just serve as an example as to why expectations for Stanford olinemen need to be tempered.

 

[hawknation2014]

Does he pencil in as a starter this season?

Not necessarily. Hopefully, they will be as creative with Irvin as an outside pass rusher as they were with Avril and Bennett, who had just five combined starts during the regular season. Irvin had one of the highest sack rates in the league as a rookie; unfortunately, with Clemons, Avril, and Bennett logging snaps, he didn't get many opportunities to rush the QB in his second year. According to PFF, Irvin had the lowest stop percentage of any OLB who played at least 120 snaps against the run. But he did get an opportunity to develop mentally and physically as a starter at a new position. Now he's just another weapon in the arsenal doing what he does best: attacking the backfield.

And maybe if they fail to re-sign Wright and/or Smith, he could be counted on again to start at SLB in 2015.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

I laugh at empty statements like X player is a "Swing and Miss"

Do any of you guys even know what a LEO is?

A hybrid between a LBer and DE.

When Irvin was selected it was no big secret that despite his elite athleticism he was incredible raw. Yet, he's still been a productive player despite having to learn to be a proper NFL player.

The guy is not floundering around, he's not regressing, he's gaining much needed experience, and putting in the work into being a more complete player.

He's a project player in development... let him play out his contract before passing critical bullshit judgement on a players who has made quality contributions to one of the best defenses in the NFL the last two years.

 

[Scottemojo]

Said it before, and I'll say it again; Irvin was a swing and miss. He can't find a position, and we passed on David DeCastro, who would have upgraded our interior line in a big way.

So far, the Steelers are extremely disappointed with Decastro. Looks like you swung and missed too, Tabs.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I laugh at people who seem to think they know more than PC and JS about football. It happens, not every guy turns out to be a great pick. The Hawks have done it as well, if not better than ANY other team since they have been here.

 

[garrylt4]

Didn't Pete say at one point, Bruce Irvin year one will learn DE, year two OLB, year three look out!!!

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yep, way way way too early to claim he's a bust.

 

[bjornanderson21]

Bruce Irvin is not a bust, nor is he being given a roster spot because of some "potential".

At this point he is not starter-quality and has not lived up to his draft spot, but he has at least earned his backup spot(s) on the best defense in the nfl.

Did I like the pick at the time? Not at all. Do I like it any more now? Nope. Does it look like he will ever become a player worthy of his draft spot? Probably not.

But the dude is not a complete waste of a pick and salary (curry from ruskell, or carp from Schneid) so I don't see why he should be a target for criticism.

I think people are criticizing Irvin because they dont want to criticize the person who DRAFTED him (schneider).

As great as Schneider has been, he hasn't been very successful with the 1st round since Earl, and with the Irvin pick he probably out-psyched himself kind of like with the whole Whitehurst situation. It happens.

If people need to get mad about the Irvin pick then get mad that Pete and John used a nice 1st round pick on a very raw player who didn't really know much about football. Teams rarely draft players like that in the 1st round and we can all see why. If the Irvin selection had worked out well then they would get a lot of praise for it, but since it hasnt worked out so well the criticism should be directed at them instead of the player who really shouldn't have been a 1st rounder.

 

[RiverDog]

Bruce Irvin is not a bust, nor is he being given a roster spot because of some "potential".

At this point he is not starter-quality and has not lived up to his draft spot, but he has at least earned his backup spot(s) on the best defense in the nfl.

Did I like the pick at the time? Not at all. Do I like it any more now? Nope. Does it look like he will ever become a player worthy of his draft spot? Probably not.

But the dude is not a complete waste of a pick and salary (curry from ruskell, or carp from Schneid) so I don't see why he should be a target for criticism.

I think people are criticizing Irvin because they dont want to criticize the person who DRAFTED him (schneider).

As great as Schneider has been, he hasn't been very successful with the 1st round since Earl, and with the Irvin pick he probably out-psyched himself kind of like with the whole Whitehurst situation. It happens.

If people need to get mad about the Irvin pick then get mad that Pete and John used a nice 1st round pick on a very raw player who didn't really know much about football. Teams rarely draft players like that in the 1st round and we can all see why. If the Irvin selection had worked out well then they would get a lot of praise for it, but since it hasnt worked out so well the criticism should be directed at them instead of the player who really shouldn't have been a 1st rounder.

I agree with much of your post. At this point, Irvin is not worth the #15 overall selection. He's basically a specialist or backup player. He's not a bust and he's not a wasted pick, at least not yet. I did not like the selection then, I don't like it now, and I am not optimistic that he'll ever rise to the point where his performance justifies his selection. My issue from the day we drafted him has always been that he's a 2nd or 3rd round player, not a top half of the first round player.

But I don't agree that posters are criticizing him because they don't want to criticize JS or PC, nor do I agree with your statement that he should not be a target for criticism. Every player on the roster, even Russell Wilson, is a legitimate target for criticism. No player, coach, or administrator should be exempt from our poison pens. They make tons of money that more than makes up for having to work at a job in a fish bowl where their every move on and off the field is subject to the opinions of arm chair quarterbacks like us.

 

[Skeeve]

Did I like the pick at the time? Not at all. Do I like it any more now? Nope. Does it look like he will ever become a player worthy of his draft spot? Probably not.

I think people are criticizing Irvin because they dont want to criticize the person who DRAFTED him (schneider).

If people need to get mad about the Irvin pick then get mad that Pete and John used a nice 1st round pick on a very raw player who didn't really know much about football. Teams rarely draft players like that in the 1st round and we can all see why. If the Irvin selection had worked out well then they would get a lot of praise for it, but since it hasnt worked out so well the criticism should be directed at them instead of the player who really shouldn't have been a 1st rounder.

I agree with much of your post. At this point, Irvin is not worth the #15 overall selection. He's basically a specialist or backup player. He's not a bust and he's not a wasted pick, at least not yet. I did not like the selection then, I don't like it now, and I am not optimistic that he'll ever rise to the point where his performance justifies his selection. My issue from the day we drafted him has always been that he's a 2nd or 3rd round player, not a top half of the first round player.

:sarcasm_on: That draft stunk, look at the players drafted that aren't even on the team.

Jay Howard 4th round bust, Winston Guy 6th round bust (both are still in the league though) .
I don't know what they were thinking they should of picked in this order.

1. Russell Wilson 3rd
2. Bobby Wagner 2nd
3. J.R. Sweezy 7th
4. Bruce Irvin 1st
4. Robert Turbin 4th
5. Jeremy Lane 6th
6. Gregg Scruggs 7th
6. Korey Toomer 5th
7. Unknown superstar
7. Unknown superstar

:sarcasm_off:

It's clear that you don't pick a player by what he will eventually become. You pick the player, that fits your team, when you can get him. Just my 2 cents.

 

[brimsalabim]

If he is a project then he is developing nicely. I think its not easy for some to wrap their head around a first round pick being a project thus the confusion.

I see Clowney as being similar to Irvin and some have him as the number one over all pick.

 

[scutterhawk]

Hope to see more of this from Irvin:



Irvin led all NFL rookies with 8.0 sacks and 19 quarterback hits in 2012. The fact that he didn't replicate those stats in 2013 was due to the fact that the coaches moved him to a foreign position and took him off the field on third downs, rather than allow him rush the passer. I think the fans have more patience with the coaches' usage of Irvin than with Irvin himself, since he has already proven he can get after the QB when provided that opportunity.

LOL, Please note what happened with the TWO O-linemen once Irvin got past them in this clip.
Also, Quarterbacks weren't allowed to get too comfortable when Irvin was in his Rook Season, and I agree that he's being moved around quite a bit since being drafted, but once they find his nicth fit, his speed will shine through.
As for Rodgers?, and his not playing for three years, was mentioned as a comparison---Not all Star players even see the field in their Rookie season, as they might with the Seahawks, , Christine Michael didn't see much time in games last year eh?

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Bruce Irvin is not a bust, nor is he being given a roster spot because of some "potential".

At this point he is not starter-quality and has not lived up to his draft spot, but he has at least earned his backup spot(s) on the best defense in the nfl.

Did I like the pick at the time? Not at all. Do I like it any more now? Nope. Does it look like he will ever become a player worthy of his draft spot? Probably not.

But the dude is not a complete waste of a pick and salary (curry from ruskell, or carp from Schneid) so I don't see why he should be a target for criticism.

I think people are criticizing Irvin because they dont want to criticize the person who DRAFTED him (schneider).

As great as Schneider has been, he hasn't been very successful with the 1st round since Earl, and with the Irvin pick he probably out-psyched himself kind of like with the whole Whitehurst situation. It happens.

If people need to get mad about the Irvin pick then get mad that Pete and John used a nice 1st round pick on a very raw player who didn't really know much about football. Teams rarely draft players like that in the 1st round and we can all see why. If the Irvin selection had worked out well then they would get a lot of praise for it, but since it hasnt worked out so well the criticism should be directed at them instead of the player who really shouldn't have been a 1st rounder.

I agree with much of your post. At this point, Irvin is not worth the #15 overall selection. He's basically a specialist or backup player. He's not a bust and he's not a wasted pick, at least not yet. I did not like the selection then, I don't like it now, and I am not optimistic that he'll ever rise to the point where his performance justifies his selection. My issue from the day we drafted him has always been that he's a 2nd or 3rd round player, not a top half of the first round player.

But I don't agree that posters are criticizing him because they don't want to criticize JS or PC, nor do I agree with your statement that he should not be a target for criticism. Every player on the roster, even Russell Wilson, is a legitimate target for criticism. No player, coach, or administrator should be exempt from our poison pens. They make tons of money that more than makes up for having to work at a job in a fish bowl where their every move on and off the field is subject to the opinions of arm chair quarterbacks like us.

You both are wrong. And it seems like you know nothing about the role of LEO or what it takes to properly develop one into what Carroll wants from the position. A certain process of progression has to take place in which a player has to learn to be half Defensive End, half Strongside Linebacker. If you think Irvin has been a failure then you're blind:

1. I think he exceeded his expectations as a rookie despite being a very raw prospect not only did he lead his draft class in sacks, he was top 10 out of all DEs in pressures pure snap.

2. And he definitely played much better than expected at SAM despite missing half of training camp/preseason with a groin injury AND the first 4 weeks of the season despite not being able to practice with the team. The Seahawks had more experienced LBs in Malcolm Smith, O'brien Schofield, and Mike Morgan. If Irvin had played has poorly as you think he did, he wouldn't have started 15 straight games.

3. In order to even be a viable LEO, he needed both experiences as pass-rush DE and as SAM Linebacker to even be molded as one, yet you guys try to use that against him. He musn't be good because he couldn't play LEO his first year. He must not be good because he had to change positions. Blah blah blah... its called needed Development. Understand it.

4. If you think Bruce Irvin is bad, your way thinking would have crucified Chris Clemons first few years in the NFL, Irvin got 8 sacks his first year... it took Clemons until year 4, IIRC.

I don't know with wrong with some fans around here but you can't call "game over" after 2 years. Its just such stupid logic... stop hating on players without understanding how progression works in the NFL.

Bruce Irvin will continue to develop and he has a chance to be a good LEO in a couple of years.

Like there is a chance for Carpenter to become dominant has he puts his injuries behind him more, works himself into better shape, and plays with more confidence.

You don't know that, I don't know that, only time will tell.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Logic and reason has no place here. Begone Pandion.

Though maybe the Carpenter thing is a bit of a reach....

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

I can understand the lack of faith in Carpenter if you focus solely on his negatives.

He was inconsistent, average at best and rather lethlargic last season.

But I understand Carpenter's situation:

1. He had two season knee injuries in consecutive years, I'm not greatly educated but I know enough that those type of injuries build up a physcological fear and that fear could have held him back which his why he was tenative, selective, and inconsistent.

2. Those same injuries caused him to not only lose valuable experience but valuable body development especially in the off-season. His weight would balloon out of control and when he finally got healthy, he was a roly poly playing catch up in mind and body. It lead to the lazy, lethlargic play at times which lead to inconsistentcy, missed assignments, and blown blocks.

But instead of focusing on the negative, my mind set is almost like Pete's, and I view the positives of Carpenter's season.

1. He gained valuable experience starting 18 of 19 games.
2. He finished the whole season injury free.
3. While inconsistent and average for the most part, at times he would flash dominant potential.
4. He didn't have the easiest job (along with Sweezy) with Okung/Giacomini out for awhile, and Unger at half-strength. That's
a hard deal even for experienced OL to lose your best players and have less than average replacements.

5. I ask the question what can he do to get better? And its pretty simple answers:

A) Obviously, not only control his weight but own it. And its been reported that he's down to a healthy 320.
B) Get over that fear and play more naturally... that will come in time ,with good health/conditioning without any other setbacks, he'll just put out all on the field.
C) Find something tangible to play for... and this is easy... the Seahawks didn't pick up his option and know he's not only competing for a starting position, he'll be competing for a new contract. What drives someone in the NFL more than money? Nothing.

So like I said there is a chance Carpenter can overcome his struggles, I'm not guaranteeing it but I'm not also losing hope. I want every single player on this team to find his potential and to do well. Does it mean its going to happen? Probably not but Ill always believe in that chance because there usually always is...

 

[Johnny]

I love Irvin at 'Leo' over the new 'Spinner' position that Pete had him at...

I think with the addition of Avril and Bennett (and the return of Clem), Irvin fell victim of too much talent in front of him and Pete felt compelled to find Irvin a new role in the defense.. With the possibility of loosing Avril at the end of the year maybe Pete will switch Irvin back to his more natural position at 'Leo'.

 

[MountaineerLegion]

Hey folks, new poster.

I'm really surprised to see so many of you down on Bruce.

Even though I'm a HUGE Mountaineer fan I have to admit we sent him to you all very raw. Remember Bruce only had two years of FBS level football...he was at a juco before we got him. I can't find the quote but I believe Bruce stated that he wasn't taught anything other than basic pass rushing. The sacks he racked up at WVU were just pure athleticism and heart.

You all have asked him learn two positions in two years and he's done reasonably well despite that. You have the best defense in football and he rolled in and started his first year. I know you're going to say, "ya but he's a first rounder". Do you all regularly throw away first rounders after two years of reasonable success?

Glad to be a member of the board.

 

[bigtrain21]

Hey folks, new poster.

I'm really surprised to see so many of you down on Bruce.

Even though I'm a HUGE Mountaineer fan I have to admit we sent him to you all very raw. Remember Bruce only had two years of FBS level football...he was at a juco before we got him. I can't find the quote but I believe Bruce stated that he wasn't taught anything other than basic pass rushing. The sacks he racked up at WVU were just pure athleticism and heart.

You all have asked him learn two positions in two years and he's done reasonably well despite that. You have the best defense in football and he rolled in and started his first year. I know you're going to say, "ya but he's a first rounder". Do you all regularly throw away first rounders after two years of reasonable success?

Glad to be a member of the board.

Sometimes when your team is so good it's hard to find something to complain about. I don't have anyone in mind when I say this but some people need to realize that not everyone is as NFL ready when drafted as they eventually become. I think he is still on his learning curve. He surely has the physical attributes.

I also want to add that there are a ton of people who like and support Bruce that probably haven't commented yet.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Hey folks, new poster.

I'm really surprised to see so many of you down on Bruce.

Even though I'm a HUGE Mountaineer fan I have to admit we sent him to you all very raw. Remember Bruce only had two years of FBS level football...he was at a juco before we got him. I can't find the quote but I believe Bruce stated that he wasn't taught anything other than basic pass rushing. The sacks he racked up at WVU were just pure athleticism and heart.

You all have asked him learn two positions in two years and he's done reasonably well despite that. You have the best defense in football and he rolled in and started his first year. I know you're going to say, "ya but he's a first rounder". Do you all regularly throw away first rounders after two years of reasonable success?

Glad to be a member of the board.

:2:

I like Bruce and think he's doing just fine. It usually takes a few years to develop a good pass rusher. He seems right on schedule to me.

 

[HawkWow]

Bruce Irvin is not a bust, nor is he being given a roster spot because of some "potential".

At this point he is not starter-quality and has not lived up to his draft spot, but he has at least earned his backup spot(s) on the best defense in the nfl.

Did I like the pick at the time? Not at all. Do I like it any more now? Nope. Does it look like he will ever become a player worthy of his draft spot? Probably not.

But the dude is not a complete waste of a pick and salary (curry from ruskell, or carp from Schneid) so I don't see why he should be a target for criticism.

I think people are criticizing Irvin because they dont want to criticize the person who DRAFTED him (schneider).

As great as Schneider has been, he hasn't been very successful with the 1st round since Earl, and with the Irvin pick he probably out-psyched himself kind of like with the whole Whitehurst situation. It happens.

If people need to get mad about the Irvin pick then get mad that Pete and John used a nice 1st round pick on a very raw player who didn't really know much about football. Teams rarely draft players like that in the 1st round and we can all see why. If the Irvin selection had worked out well then they would get a lot of praise for it, but since it hasnt worked out so well the criticism should be directed at them instead of the player who really shouldn't have been a 1st rounder.

I had to read your post twice before concluding you make too much sense. You're on a slippery slope with all that sense making.

Irvin won me over in his initial pre-season. Was I thrilled with his presence? Stoked with the pick? No, not at all. He appeared to be a one trick pony and that one trick was not good enough against NFL linemen. But what I saw was a guy giving 110% on every single play....and there were many. It almost appeared he was being punished and I doubt any other single player played more downs than Irvin did that pre-season.

Irvin himself admitted he was raw and lacked proper coaching coming out of college. Playing on a D where damn near every player is sensational does not make him look any better.....but I would rather have a raw kid giving his all than a kid that thinks he knows it all and goes 75% (Clowney). I remain confident Bruce Irvin will impress us and I think that will happen this upcoming year.