Bryant, Landry, Latimer, Moncrief or Robinson at 64?

[Hasselbeck]

Eh.. I don't really buy this. Chris Harper wasn't a burner. He ran a 4.55

Baldwin did run a 4.48 but that was at a Pro Day, if you want to go off that.. Robinson ran a 4.47 at his pro day. Jarvis Landry ran a 4.5 at the LSU pro day.

They also waived Chris Harper almost immediately. He was the second highest 2013 draftee to not make his NFL team's opening day roster. And a 4.55 is different than a 4.6-4.8.

Some college teams, like UCLA and Penn State, will rig their Pro Day times so that virtually every released 40 time is .2 seconds faster than the normal combine time. What the scouts came up with is probably more in line with their actual combine times.

Baldwin looks like a 4.4 guy on the field; Robinson, Landry, and Benjamin do not.

You missed the point of my post, first of all.

I find it funny that you say Baldwin ran a 4.48, which was a pro day time, but you throw away pro day times of an Allen Robinson or Jarvis Landry because of UCLA's pro day. Last I checked, Robinson and Landry didn't play at UCLA. But moving on..

The time that means more to this front office, is the short shuttle time. Robinson was Top 5 in that of the more notable guys, and by that I mean guys with Day 1-2 grades, not 6th round-UDFA prospects, though I put Janis and Ellington on that to show how he measured up against these combine warriors.

I think the guy this FO probably truly covets is Odell Beckham. Unfortunately, I don't think Beckham is going to be available anywhere near 32. But guys like Allen Robinson, Jordan Matthews, Donte Moncrief, Cody Latimer.. one of those guys, if not all, will be available at 32... and maybe a couple fall to 64 too.

 

[Missing_Clink]

Honestly I'd be surprised if any of those guys are there at 64. If I had my pick though...Lattimer? I guess? I don't know, I like them all. I'd be happy with any of them.

 

[hawknation2014]

The time that means more to this front office, is the short shuttle time. Robinson was Top 5 in that of the more notable guys, and by that I mean guys with Day 1-2 grades, not 6th round-UDFA prospects, though I put Janis and Ellington on that to show how he measured up against these combine warriors.

You say this is true, but do you have any evidence to back that up?

Let's look at the short shuttle times for the Seahawks' receivers:

Ricardo Lockette- 4.19 short shuttle
Percy Harvin- DNP in short shuttle
Taylor Price- 4.34 short shuttle
Jermaine Kearse- 4.17 short shuttle
Doug Baldwin- 4.26 short shuttle
Sidney Rice- 4.34 short shuttle

These are fairly pedestrian short shuttle times across the board (4.17-4.34 with an average of 4.26), at least in comparison to their blazing 40 times (4.34-4.51 with an average of 4.42):

Ricardo Lockette- 4.34s 40
Percy Harvin- 4.39s 40
Taylor Price- 4.40s 40
Jermaine Kearse- 4.43s 40
Doug Baldwin- 4.48s 40
Sidney Rice- 4.51s 40

So . . . if you have any evidence that the FO favors short shuttle times over 40 times for receivers, I would love to see it. I don't mean to be dick; I just think this is an interesting discussion.

 

[hawknation2014]

Fieldgulls.com compared the average times for all the current Seahawk receivers vs. the 2014 WR draft class: http://www.fieldgulls.com/nfl-draft/201 ... e-receiver



What they discovered was the Seahawks' receivers' 10-yard time had the greatest deviation (z-score) from the 2014 class as a whole, followed by 40 time, then vertical, then 3-cone, then broad jump, then short shuttle, and lastly bench press.

Order of importance of measureables for WRs (highest to least importance, based on their differential z-score from the current draft class):
1. 10-yard split (most significant)
2. 40-yard dash
3. Vertical jump
4. 3-cone
5. Broad jump
6. Short shuttle
7. Bench press (least significant)

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Fieldgulls.com compared the average times for all the current Seahawk receivers vs. the 2014 WR draft class: http://www.fieldgulls.com/nfl-draft/201 ... e-receiver



What they discovered was the Seahawks' receivers' 10-yard time had the greatest deviation (z-score) from the 2014 class as a whole, followed by 40 time, then vertical, then 3-cone, then broad jump, then short shuttle, and lastly bench press.

Order of importance of measureables for WRs (highest to least importance, based on their differential z-score from the current draft class):
1. 10-yard split (most significant)
2. 40-yard dash
3. Vertical jump
4. 3-cone
5. Broad jump
6. Short shuttle
7. Bench press (least significant)

Last post on measurements then I'll stop.

We can use any data want to want to make an argument for or against a player. You're putting a big emphasis on 40-times (without regard for weight or size i will add), but if you believe this information below, it's not as important as the raw numbers indicate:

Davis Hsu ‏@DavisHsuSeattle Feb 23
"So @ScottEnyeart knows Coach Carlisle, the Seahawks (and USC prior) Strength coach...here is what Seahawks look at.......Seahawks look at 10 yard split and 3cone over 40 yard time....Carlisle knows that 40 times can be trained for (some guys play as fast as they run & some guys dont & they know that)"

You can easily use those numbers you posted and say, "Allen Robinson is slow and not athletic. The numbers prove it."

I could post the SPARQ data and make a claim, "Allen Robinson is an athletic freak! The numbers prove it." I could even take it one step further and say, add in the Pro Day numbers like it was done for Latimer and Doug Baldwin and it proves Allen Robinson is an even more athletic freak.

The combine and Pro Days are a useful tool, but I think we're getting carried away using them as any sort of prediction or proof of what Seattle does in the draft.

Just to add, I will say that Seattle likes athletes and speedy guys. I can't deny that, but my main argument would be that if they see a player with other special traits, they aren't going to ignore that because they don't check a box when it comes to specific measurements.

 

[pcbball12]

Fieldgulls.com compared the average times for all the current Seahawk receivers vs. the 2014 WR draft class: http://www.fieldgulls.com/nfl-draft/201 ... e-receiver



What they discovered was the Seahawks' receivers' 10-yard time had the greatest deviation (z-score) from the 2014 class as a whole, followed by 40 time, then vertical, then 3-cone, then broad jump, then short shuttle, and lastly bench press.

Order of importance of measureables for WRs (highest to least importance, based on their differential z-score from the current draft class):
1. 10-yard split (most significant)
2. 40-yard dash
3. Vertical jump
4. 3-cone
5. Broad jump
6. Short shuttle
7. Bench press (least significant)

Last post on measurements then I'll stop.

We can use any data want to want to make an argument for or against a player. You're putting a big emphasis on 40-times (without regard for weight or size i will add), but if you believe this information below, it's not as important as the raw numbers indicate:

Davis Hsu ‏@DavisHsuSeattle Feb 23
"So @ScottEnyeart knows Coach Carlisle, the Seahawks (and USC prior) Strength coach...here is what Seahawks look at.......Seahawks look at 10 yard split and 3cone over 40 yard time....Carlisle knows that 40 times can be trained for (some guys play as fast as they run & some guys dont & they know that)"

You can easily use those numbers you posted and say, "Allen Robinson is slow and athletic. The numbers prove it."

I could post the SPARQ data and make a claim, "Allen Robinson is an athletic freak! The numbers prove it." I could even take it one step further and say, add in the Pro Day numbers like it was done for Latimer and Doug Baldwin and it proves Allen Robinson is an even more athletic freak.

The combine and Pro Days are a useful tool, but I think we're getting carried away using them as any sort of prediction or proof of what Seattle does in the draft.

Just to add, I will say that Seattle likes athletes and speedy guys. I can't deny that, but my main argument would be that if they see a player with other special traits, they aren't going to ignore that because they don't check a box when it comes to specific measurements.

Great post, couldn't have said it better myself. Seeing way too much emphasis on measurements lately. Not that they are not useful or a part of the process, but those numbers are only a part of the process. The tape is the biggest part. There are ways that a player can have "special traits", without possessing special workout traits.

 

[Seafan]

FO prefers players who can play.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Pro-Day times are pretty worthless if the player ran injury free at the combine. Anthony Barr running a time 0.25 seconds faster is evidence of that. The great thing about the combine is everyone is equal -- same track and conditions. Who's the last player who ran a slower time at his pro day?

In terms of this list, I'll be shocked if Latimer and Moncrief are there at #64. Latimer is a first round lock IMO -- in the sense that if he somehow gets to #32, Seattle takes him. The guy screams Seahawks. Superb athlete, tall, excellent frame, strong hands, catches everything, high points the football superbly, terrific run blocker, makes spectacular plays. If you could put together an ideal Seattle receiver, it's Cody Latimer. The Seahawks will be lucky if he's there at #32.