Cam Vs. Wilson

[hawker84]

I stumbled accross this , sorry if already discussed.. Baldinger and Thomlinson talk about if they were starting a franchise today, who would they pick as their starter, Cam or RW..

They both overwhelmingly picked Cam.. Said he just has more ceiling and is barely scratching the surface talentwise.. went on to say, he has done more with much less.. Where there could be some validity to that, i still say hogwash, RW has leadership skills that Cam will never have, and all the talent in the world won't make up for that.. Just ask Vick.

I also found it interesting it was brought up, that Cam has won 13 games in his first two seasons, RW has won 12 in his first.. But yes with a much better all around team.

Thoughts?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-t ... -or-Newton

 

[openureyez]

I saw that too, but I wasn't sure how to react. Thought I might have Seahawk goggles, but I'm just not a newton fan. Give me Russell all day...twice on Sunday. Go Hawks

 

[Coug_Hawk08]

Wilson > Newton. /thread

 

[CANHawk]

Who cares? Those two are doufuses and Russ will prove all doubters wrong very shortly...

 

[drdiags]

Probably the same reason folks pick Luck over the rest of the 2012 class. They love the prototypical and physical specimen these guys are. If I could hedge my bet, I would want to choose after both completed a 3 yr run. I think of Sanchez and Freeman as QBs who folks wondered about due to experience or accuracy coming out of college. They seemed to be trending up early only to hit a snag after yr 3 where one is barely holding onto his job and the other is being questioned by his 2nd year HC.

There is no right or wrong answer to the question, it is just a matter of choice. I would take Wilson but would not be disappointed if I got Newton. That could change because I would like to have more data to know if my hunch was correct.

 

[jlwaters1]

I'd rather have a workoholic who is a born team leader, than a guy who is uber-talented but has attitude issues. Remember all the stories about his poor behavior over the last few years, where he's sulking in the corner during bad losses and his selfish attitude.

I think after 2013 alot of this will clear itself out. If RW comes out and plays well he'll get his just accolades. What is interesting to me to see how the SOPH years of Luck, RG3 and Kaep (3rd year/2nd as a starter) to see if they continue to excel or to see if they take steps back. IMO RG3 and Kaepernick rely to much on their athleticism, will the adjustments of defenses bring them back to earth, or will they be just as dominant? Was Luck's 10+ win season a flash in the pan (considering the young cast around him) or are they legit contenders year in and year out.

2013 will give us more clarity.

 

[Missing_Clink]

Newton probably has the best physical tools of any QB in the NFL. Does he have the brain to match like Wilson does? So far the answer is clearly no. Give me another season or 2 before I make that call.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

Don't dismiss the power of groupthink.

Newton is still a flashy QB capable of producing great stats. He has produced relative to his potential. But he just doesn't have 'it'. The ability to inspire his team to be better.

Wilson is going to be hamstrung his entire career. In fact, I've made the comparison between him and Troy Aikman more than once. Troy was never a statistically dominant player. I don't expect Wilson will ever be that either. And truth be told, if Brady had never went gonzo statistically later in his career, he would probably be maligned by national pundits equally as he was his first several years where his production was modest but the teams' results spectacular.

Obviously, from our perspective we can easily see that Seattle wins because of Wilson, not despite him. But that opinion is never going to stick on a national scale where it's simply impossible to watch with that kind of depth in order to appreciate that truth.

Simply, Wilson is going to be our little secret. And that's not likely to change in the future. I know for a fact, that if my team is in the playoffs and facing adversity against a quality opponent -- I want Wilson taking the snaps because he's a guy who can be magical and who will inspire his teammates to perform when the heat is at it's peak. Wilson keeps his team engaged and performing.

Newton doesn't have that same ability to be that kind of leader under pressure. He is more athletically talented. That's easy to see and why national pundits will give him full credit for that. But he doesn't engage or inspire his team to perform. His teams just kind of stand around waiting for him to do something. Like the early Chicago Bulls teams that would watch Jordan do his thing. Newton doesn't get his mates involved to the degree that Wilson does. And more often than not, when adversity arrives, he succumbs to it and can't be the commanding influence on his team to overcome the moment.

You cannot measure poise. And yet it's such a critical aspect to leading a team. Wilson is not likely to ever get credit for that considering the abundance of talent on the roster.

 

[cacksman]

I think it's amazing how the overwhelming majority of Seattle fans would take Wilson over Newton after Wilson was the 75th pick and Newton has proven to be a fine pick at #1 overall.

 

[volsunghawk]

As an Auburn alum, I'm a fan of both guys.

The people who have criticized Newton's passing ability and called him a "running QB" were flat-out wrong. The guy has an excellent arm and pretty decent accuracy. His size makes him hard to bring down, and his speed and fluidity make him a dangerous threat to run (though he'll beat teams with him arm just as much). His physical traits are off the charts. And his leadership was clear while he was at Auburn.

Now, with all that being said, Newton's now playing in a league where he can't just physically dominate every defender, and that throws challenges at him that he didn't really experience at previous levels of the game. And when he gets hit with that, it shows up in his body language. He's got a head for the game, and he's a capable leader... but he isn't as mentally tough as Wilson - and I think it's due to the fact that Newton has never had to really overcome the same kind of adversity that Wilson has. Newton's size and arm have had people buying into him since he was in middle school; Wilson's had to rely on his work ethic, his determination, and his mental toughness for far longer than Newton has.

In the end, I look at it this way... when he's "on," I don't know that there's a guy who can take over a game like Newton. But that doesn't make you a better QB... it just makes you a guy with special talent. To be a better QB, you have to be able to handle games that have turned against you and turn them back. You have to be able to make everyone around you better. And you have to be able to do that week in and week out... not just when things are going well. That's why I'd take Wilson over Newton.

 

[pehawk]

I too compare Wilson to Aikman. They're both robotic competitors.

It only adds to the Seahawks beginning a 90's Cowboys type run. The similarities are eerie, really.

 

[DericLee]

The first thing LT said when explaining his pick of Newton of RW was "Newton is six foot five".

It's okay, another year just under the radar, exactly what we need.

 

[PlinytheCenter]

The data will be more complete after Week 1. Head to head comparison.

 

[ensett]

How do they determine Newton has a higher ceiling? Because he's bigger? Puhleez they call football a chess match for a reason and its not because having more physical ability will make you better

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

In the end, I look at it this way... when he's "on," I don't know that there's a guy who can take over a game like Newton. But that doesn't make you a better QB... it just makes you a guy with special talent. To be a better QB, you have to be able to handle games that have turned against you and turn them back.

This is the key. And it's nearly impossible to have a suitable metric to make a comparison.

I've described Newton as the Ken Phelps of QBs. Phelps put up good stats, but there was always the local understanding that he only hit home runs if the team was up or down by 6 runs or more.

 

[hawker84]

How do they determine Newton has a higher ceiling? Because he's bigger? Puhleez they call football a chess match for a reason and its not because having more physical ability will make you better

From what i can gather, i think they're saying , he has all this talent, but hasn't done squat with it. So there has to be more to his game... They're contributing the lack of talent around him to be the cause of his failures his first two seasons.

where as RW has already proven he's extremely effective and a proven winner, but he has the supporting cast around him already to make it easier.. Therefore , Cam must have a higher ceiling.. right?

I disagree as well

 

[Chukarhawk]

Newton is a headcase. He'll never hit his full potential.

 

[Kixkahn]

I think it's amazing how the overwhelming majority of Seattle fans would take Wilson over Newton after Wilson was the 75th pick and Newton has proven to be a fine pick at #1 overall.

Newton however has problems with his emotions. Wilson has been amazing in keeping his cool and becoming an incredible leader after a very short time frame. By the way when they are picked in the draft doesn't mean jack, Brady was picked in the sixth round, which is just one example.

 

[themunn]

In the end, I look at it this way... when he's "on," I don't know that there's a guy who can take over a game like Newton. But that doesn't make you a better QB... it just makes you a guy with special talent. To be a better QB, you have to be able to handle games that have turned against you and turn them back. You have to be able to make everyone around you better. And you have to be able to do that week in and week out... not just when things are going well. That's why I'd take Wilson over Newton.

Did you see Russell Wilson when he was "on" against Chicago and "on" against Atlanta?

 

[hawker84]

Did you see Russell Wilson when he was "on" against Chicago and "on" against Atlanta?

and New England and Dallas... that was a thing of beauty to watch wasn't it...