Carson Ran into a Loaded Box on 57.9% of his carries #1

[Uncle Si]

Sure seemed like we failed to leverage our rushing attack fully with PA the way the Rams do, for example. The Rams get wide open receivers all day on medium routes and will keep throwing until the opponent begins to flinch towards the pass which is how it should be. A great one two punch.

Whereas we, and film credit to the O for success despite this, have more of a one one two combo. The pass is still there but just way way more predictable.

I wonder how many jet sweeps, russ keepers on Read option and screen plays the hawks ran this year. Or how many times they targeted the TEs.

Seems like most the time it was either run or drop back and wait for a long developing route.

Still... 10-6. But improvements possible

 

[Scorpion05]

Sure seemed like we failed to leverage our rushing attack fully with PA the way the Rams do, for example. The Rams get wide open receivers all day on medium routes and will keep throwing until the opponent begins to flinch towards the pass which is how it should be. A great one two punch.

Whereas we, and film credit to the O for success despite this, have more of a one one two combo. The pass is still there but just way way more predictable.

I totally agree. And in comparison, I would say the Chiefs struggle from not leveraging their explosive passing attack to run the ball effectively. They're impatient and always looking for the big play

Same mindset with this team. We need to balance the run more with a lot more PA passes. I may have critiques of Schotty, but with another year in the system I'm optimistic. I think we can exceed the 10-6 mark just based on our performance in the last 3/4 of the season

 

[misfit]

Don't yall remember the bears game when Russ got yelled at for checking out of Schotty's plays?

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Tamerlane beat me to it, but I'm gonna display the tweet because fewer people click on a link.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SamuelRGold/status/1087012664914706433[/tweet]

 

[John63]

Tamerlane beat me to it, but I'm gonna display the tweet because fewer people click on a link.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SamuelRGold/status/1087012664914706433[/tweet]

Based on that I am betting a stacked box is 8+ and a Loaded box is more men the blockers so 5-8

 

[Fade]

Said it in another thread, you guys seem to think we want to run away from a certain defense. I think a lot of it is we don't care what you do on defense were running at you anyway, stop us if you can mentality.

Yeah, i like that mentality to be honest. But when it doesn't work for the first half i just hope they adjust accordingly. Like that Carolina game was a good adjustment when we were held to 70 something yards. That Dallas game was bad. But i still give them credit, for most of the season, it worked well.

The Dallas game wasn't bad because we're run-heavy. The Dallas game was bad because both our starting guards were playing injured and were ineffective at protecting the run OR THE PASS (for the "then why didn't we pass earlier" crowd).

A fact of rebuilding/retooling teams is that if they are looking to fill a starter position, they are also looking to fill the backup position, otherwise they would just promote the backup to starter. We were thin at guard, and broke down at the worst possible time, heading into the playoffs.

First off this isn't about 1 game, but an entire season.

The ultimate goal is to setup your QB with the easiest throws possible, and for your running back to have the easiest runs possible. That is the job of the coach. On offense the Seahawks coaches did the opposite. Over an entire season.

It's like i am debating Bevelites all over again. Trying to explain to them Wilson was carrying Bevell keeping him employed. Just like Lynch was carrying Cable keeping him employed. Carson and Wilson are probowl caliber players that are not being used optimally. Both the data, and film point to this. It doesn't mean they need to throw the ball all over the lot. It means they need to be more balanced generally as an offense, and better marry their formations via run and pass. (See the Rams.) The Rams were/are a run heavy team that utilizes playaction, and they were/are an explosive offense. The difference was if teams loaded the box they threw playaction, if teams played Nickel they ran it. The Seahawks need to be smarter on offense.

Second the Dallas game isn't even a debate.

The Seahawks were extremely effective passing the ball when they did. Regardless of how well they were blocking upfront (Wilson is used to it by now). They were having success throwing, and they should have thrown more, especially playaction.

Russell Wilson isn't Blake Bortles, if Pete keeps treating him that way he will not be winning anymore Super Bowls going forward. You just have to hope they learned from that game, and don't make that mistake again.

A system that is dependent on having healthy Guards is a bad system. You have to be able to adjust to both personnel and scheme, or you will lose.

The Seahawks foolishly ran themselves right out of the playoffs without even attempting to throw their best punch. Wilson. Until it was too late, even though he was having success earlier in the game with limited attempts. His success continued when they went pass happy.

 

[John63]

Said it in another thread, you guys seem to think we want to run away from a certain defense. I think a lot of it is we don't care what you do on defense were running at you anyway, stop us if you can mentality.

Yeah, i like that mentality to be honest. But when it doesn't work for the first half i just hope they adjust accordingly. Like that Carolina game was a good adjustment when we were held to 70 something yards. That Dallas game was bad. But i still give them credit, for most of the season, it worked well.

The Dallas game wasn't bad because we're run-heavy. The Dallas game was bad because both our starting guards were playing injured and were ineffective at protecting the run OR THE PASS (for the "then why didn't we pass earlier" crowd).

A fact of rebuilding/retooling teams is that if they are looking to fill a starter position, they are also looking to fill the backup position, otherwise they would just promote the backup to starter. We were thin at guard, and broke down at the worst possible time, heading into the playoffs.

First off this isn't about 1 game, but an entire season.

The ultimate goal is to setup your QB with the easiest throws possible, and for your running back to have the easiest runs possible. That is the job of the coach. On offense the Seahawks coaches did the opposite. Over an entire season.

It's like i am debating Bevelites all over again. Trying to explain to them Wilson was carrying Bevell keeping him employed. Just like Lynch was carrying Cable keeping him employed. Carson and Wilson are probowl caliber players that are not being used optimally. Both the data, and film point to this. It doesn't mean they need to throw the ball all over the lot. It means they need to be more balanced generally as an offense, and better marry their formations via run and pass. (See the Rams.) The Rams were/are a run heavy team that utilizes playaction, and they were/are an explosive offense. The difference was if teams loaded the box they threw playaction, if teams played Nickel they ran it. The Seahawks need to be smarter on offense.

Second the Dallas game isn't even a debate.

The Seahawks were extremely effective passing the ball when they did. Regardless of how well they were blocking upfront (Wilson is used to it by now). They were having success throwing, and they should have thrown more, especially playaction.

Russell Wilson isn't Blake Bortles, if Pete keeps treating him that way he will not be winning anymore Super Bowls going forward. You just have to hope they learned from that game, and don't make that mistake again.

A system that is dependent on having healthy Guards is a bad system. You have to be able to adjust to both personnel and scheme, or you will lose.

The Seahawks foolishly ran themselves right out of the playoffs without even attempting to throw their best punch. Wilson. Until it was too late, even though he was having success earlier in the game with limited attempts. His success continued when they went pass happy.

agreed the thing is a good HC sees he has issues, injuries whatever and adjusts the game plan for them and the team they are playing, Our HC decided to go with the same old same old till it was too late.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Carson and Wilson are probowl caliber players that are not being used optimally. Both the data, and film point to this.

What, the data that showed Carson was 5th in the league in rushing and Wilson had one of his most efficient seasons ever?

They had an off game in Dallas. Just come to terms with it already.

I cannot believe how hard some people will argue with results.

 

[Uncle Si]

Carson and Wilson are probowl caliber players that are not being used optimally. Both the data, and film point to this.

What, the data that showed Carson was 5th in the league in rushing and Wilson had one of his most efficient seasons ever?

They had an off game in Dallas. Just come to terms with it already.

I cannot believe how hard some people will argue with results.

I think the discussion on whether or not (or how) the offense evolves next season is a better takeaway than what happened

 

[Ozzy]

Carson and Wilson are probowl caliber players that are not being used optimally. Both the data, and film point to this.

What, the data that showed Carson was 5th in the league in rushing and Wilson had one of his most efficient seasons ever?

They had an off game in Dallas. Just come to terms with it already.

I cannot believe how hard some people will argue with results.

Montana you're guilty of exactly what your baffled by though. Sure we had success. Was it the ceiling? Mahomes threw 50 TD's this year. What if he was in a system that capped him at 35. Using your logic you would say yes because hey good is good enough. We know that would be a false statement based on what he did. There is room for improvement and I'm confused why people are having such a hard time admitting it especially when the coaches you're arguing for would agree, they can do better. I'm not saying they're entering Jeff Fisher territory but there is room for improvement as most smart voices around the league have stated when they study the Seahawks.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Carson and Wilson are probowl caliber players that are not being used optimally. Both the data, and film point to this.

What, the data that showed Carson was 5th in the league in rushing and Wilson had one of his most efficient seasons ever?

They had an off game in Dallas. Just come to terms with it already.

I cannot believe how hard some people will argue with results.

Montana you're guilty of exactly what your baffled by though. Sure we had success. Was it the ceiling? Mahomes threw 50 TD's this year.

And lost when it mattered, because his team couldn't play defense. Wilson and Mahomes are both well over the "good enough" hump, as are their offenses. When Wilson had a complete team in 2013-2014, we went to the Super Bowl - with a very similar style of offense as to what we have now. It works just fine.

 

[John63]

Carson and Wilson are probowl caliber players that are not being used optimally. Both the data, and film point to this.

What, the data that showed Carson was 5th in the league in rushing and Wilson had one of his most efficient seasons ever?

They had an off game in Dallas. Just come to terms with it already.

I cannot believe how hard some people will argue with results.

Montana you're guilty of exactly what your baffled by though. Sure we had success. Was it the ceiling? Mahomes threw 50 TD's this year.

And lost when it mattered, because his team couldn't play defense. Wilson and Mahomes are both well over the "good enough" hump, as are their offenses. When Wilson had a complete team in 2013-2014, we went to the Super Bowl - with a very similar style of offense as to what we have now. It works just fine.

yes it works "fine" but how about if it worked "great"? It can with some simple tweaks. As to your need to blame just the defense for the cowboy game, I disagree. If they had opened the offense up sooner the defense might not have been so gassed. IF we had opened it up sooner maybe 1 questionable call would not have had such a big impact. There is nothing wrong with admitting while the system we are using works "fine" it can still be better.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

What, the data that showed Carson was 5th in the league in rushing and Wilson had one of his most efficient seasons ever?

They had an off game in Dallas. Just come to terms with it already.

I cannot believe how hard some people will argue with results.

Montana you're guilty of exactly what your baffled by though. Sure we had success. Was it the ceiling? Mahomes threw 50 TD's this year.

And lost when it mattered, because his team couldn't play defense. Wilson and Mahomes are both well over the "good enough" hump, as are their offenses. When Wilson had a complete team in 2013-2014, we went to the Super Bowl - with a very similar style of offense as to what we have now. It works just fine.

yes it works "fine" but how about if it worked "great"? It can with some simple tweaks.

And would also allow the opposing offense more plays, therefore neutralizing any advantage gained. In Pete's mind, at least.

 

[jammerhawk]

All this grumbling about dancing with who you brought you to the dance. The real complaint seems to be about a slowness to adjust to what isn’t working. On that front the coaching staff of the Patriots seem better at it than the rest of the league

I hope it didn’t escape notice that none of the 4 teams playing this last weekend had any great success running and where they did it was through a recognition of a flawed coverage scheme or an undermanned defensive scheme. The importance of consistent pass pressure created by defensive stunts gave answers for the passing games in both contests.

 

[Uncle Si]

Patriots ran really well against the Chiefs (and Chargers).

But thats also to your point about flexibility.

 

[ImTheScientist]

This is inaccurate fake news. It was closer to sub 20%......saw this on twitter as well.

Sorry not sorry?

 

[Tical21]

Did any of you think during the Dallas game that we weren't going to break through with the running game?

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Did any of you think during the Dallas game that we weren't going to break through with the running game?

I didn't. I expected another Beastquake towards the end.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Did any of you think during the Dallas game that we weren't going to break through with the running game?

I expected Penny to break one... which he did. What I didn’t expect was for the staff to stop using him after that. I figured they would ride the hot hand.

 

[jammerhawk]

Patriots ran really well against the Chiefs (and Chargers).

But thats also to your point about flexibility.

The Pats ran enough to make KC respect the run but no more than that. I thought they were brilliant in the way they took what KC offered up defensively for the run.