Clint Hurtt Wipes His Ass something… something…

[Ozzy]

Your deflection is comical. Of course Pete has something to do with the game planning.

What I am questioning, and at least River got it, is your assertion *again* that Pete Carroll has been regarded as the best defensive coach. You have said it several times. It is inaccuarte to the point of lying. Stop using the made up phrase and I will stop questioning it. Or provide a link, any link, from even the LOB days before the NFL neutered defenses that states that Pete Carroll is the best defensive coach. Literally no one believes that.

oetw isn’t considered one of the best defensive minds in football and anyone who says so is lying? Are you serious right now?

Cool it with the calling people liars. Attack the post not the poster. It’s cool if you disagree with me or anyone else on Pete Carroll. Leave it at that

 

[BASF]

oetw isn’t considered one of the best defensive minds in football and anyone who says so is lying? Are you serious right now?

Cool it with the calling people liars. Attack the post not the poster. It’s cool if you disagree with me or anyone else on Pete Carroll. Leave it at that

Now it's "one of the best defensive minds?" You have specifically said numerous times that he is considered the best defensive coach. Ah, the back pedal. It's alright PNW, on to the no longer paying attention to list you go (interesting that you can not put a mod on ignore). At least River was willing to say it was only an expression when he was taking the shots at Carroll.

 

[m0ng0]

Just when I needed that little bit of a reminder why this world and the people who live on it suck...perfect timing.

 

[Ozzy]

Now it's "one of the best defensive minds?" You have specifically said numerous times that he is considered the best defensive coach. Ah, the back pedal. It's alright PNW, on to the no longer paying attention to list you go (interesting that you can not put a mod on ignore). At least River was willing to say it was only an expression when he was taking the shots at Carroll.

I never said THE best. I said one of. This is a goofy argument you’re sticking with to the tune of calling people liars. You good dude?

 

[Ozzy]

Just when I needed that little bit of a reminder why this world and the people who live on it suck...perfect timing.

Hard to argue against this at times lol

 

[knownone]

Are we sure the defense is that bad? I'm still confident this will be our best unit in years.

 

[Crizilla]

I'm still confident this will be our best unit in years.

Not if they keep rotating this many defenders, reacting too late in zone coverage, or continue to face creative offensive minded coaches like McVay.

 

[Vesuve]

Another over-generalized word salad:

"We gotta get our act together. That wasn't a good performance in any way... It ain't going away. We have to respond and we've got an extremely difficult challenge this week with Detroit. But it ain't about them, it's gonna be about us." - Pete Carroll on the Seahawks

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

The Seahawks always start pretty bad during the Carroll era. It’s not until around week 10 that the defense seems to get better. But with that being said, Clint Hurtt, is incapable of putting together a quality defense if he had 100 weeks.

Carroll needs to get rid of Clint Hurtt right now cause it’s not too late to win the division and make a statement with the players. There’s no sense in keeping Hurtt cause the guy just isn’t it.

I’m all for it cause we have seen enough from him.

 

[Scout]

Are we sure the defense is that bad? I'm still confident this will be our best unit in years.

In terms of talent it is right up there.

But the way they are using that talent so far is criminal. If you give any other DC the talent in that secondary they can force some coverage sacks or play aggressive bear fronts.

 

[Yxes1122]

No. I propose Pete relinqueshes X's and O's power on defense. He is the CEO that runs it.

He gives a couple of directives, "we don't give up anything deep." "We will be the best tackling team in the league." Things of that nature, but the DC is in full control of how to achieve these things. Not Pete.

Pete is currently fully involved in the scheming. It's not working.

Pete did relinquish X’s and O’s control last season and it was an utter disaster with the current DC of Philly having major influence on the scheme.

Schematically, Pete has fixed the run defense from 2 high. Listen to people that know scheme, and they will say that using Pete’s historic principles combined with Fangio 2-High coverage shells, his influence has made 2-4-5 work.

This has been, and will continue to be, a talent issue first and foremost. Dallas has an elite pass rush, SF has an elite pass rush, Philly has an elite pass rush, and on and on and on.

Seattle is trying to get an elite pass rush by drafting Mafe, Hall, and Taylor, and signing Nwosu and Jones. We can argue Carter all day, but I find it hard to believe that it would’ve worked when there is documented reporting that Jordan Davis keeps Carter in check and focused, and Seattle doesn’t have a Jordan Davis.

I find the “Pete wasted Russ” argument to be exhausted. Sean Payton is running the same run heavy offense that Pete did.

At its core, the team is still coming out of the cap hell of trying to sustain that window opened by having a “HoF” QB. Seasons upon seasons of 1 year deals. Seasons upon seasons of spending draft capital on vets to be competitive in that season.

We finally have multiple defensive players on rookie deals/long term deals. So much of defense is communication and cohesion, just like OL. And that takes time to gel. And you can’t do that if you’re recycling 30-60% of your defensive starters between seasons.

And I actually see flaws in Hurtt’s game. I think his play to play decisions, plus how he game plans, overestimates what his players can do, which gets this team into trouble. So, by all means, criticize Hurtt. But don’t warp the facts and spin the narrative that Pete hired Hurtt so he wouldn’t actually have to run Fangio scheme. As if he wanted to manipulate the scheme from the shadows. If that was true, we’d still be running wide 9, 4 down cover-3. And we haven’t since 2018. Pete has shown time and time again, that he will adapt the scheme to fit the league and the players. He’s not dogmatic in that way.

There are reasons to fire Pete and Hurtt. But much like the Russ vs. Pete narrative, I feel its absolutely wild how detached this conversation is from reality. Matty Brown literally had to delete a tweet last training camp because he had a screenshot of Hurtt’s call sheet that showed entirely new verbiage. All Fangio, no Pete.

 

[Vesuve]

I'm putting this here. I assume some or many of you know this YT channel. This is the tape and commentary on Stafford and his route runners.

Interesting stuff:

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Pete did relinquish X’s and O’s control last season and it was an utter disaster with the current DC of Philly having major influence on the scheme.

Schematically, Pete has fixed the run defense from 2 high. Listen to people that know scheme, and they will say that using Pete’s historic principles combined with Fangio 2-High coverage shells, his influence has made 2-4-5 work.

This has been, and will continue to be, a talent issue first and foremost. Dallas has an elite pass rush, SF has an elite pass rush, Philly has an elite pass rush, and on and on and on.

Seattle is trying to get an elite pass rush by drafting Mafe, Hall, and Taylor, and signing Nwosu and Jones. We can argue Carter all day, but I find it hard to believe that it would’ve worked when there is documented reporting that Jordan Davis keeps Carter in check and focused, and Seattle doesn’t have a Jordan Davis.

I find the “Pete wasted Russ” argument to be exhausted. Sean Payton is running the same run heavy offense that Pete did.

At its core, the team is still coming out of the cap hell of trying to sustain that window opened by having a “HoF” QB. Seasons upon seasons of 1 year deals. Seasons upon seasons of spending draft capital on vets to be competitive in that season.

We finally have multiple defensive players on rookie deals/long term deals. So much of defense is communication and cohesion, just like OL. And that takes time to gel. And you can’t do that if you’re recycling 30-60% of your defensive starters between seasons.

And I actually see flaws in Hurtt’s game. I think his play to play decisions, plus how he game plans, overestimates what his players can do, which gets this team into trouble. So, by all means, criticize Hurtt. But don’t warp the facts and spin the narrative that Pete hired Hurtt so he wouldn’t actually have to run Fangio scheme. As if he wanted to manipulate the scheme from the shadows. If that was true, we’d still be running wide 9, 4 down cover-3. And we haven’t since 2018. Pete has shown time and time again, that he will adapt the scheme to fit the league and the players. He’s not dogmatic in that way.

There are reasons to fire Pete and Hurtt. But much like the Russ vs. Pete narrative, I feel its absolutely wild how detached this conversation is from reality. Matty Brown literally had to delete a tweet last training camp because he had a screenshot of Hurtt’s call sheet that showed entirely new verbiage. All Fangio, no Pete.

Man, absolutely, well said!

 

[cheese22]

I think this has been an issue early in the season for most of Pete's tenure. I even get the feeling it's a bit scripted. I don't know schemes specifically, but I could see just how poorly the coaching of the defense was. Talent wise alone, there is no way that Rams offense should have done what they did. And the offense is one of the most talented in the league.
It's all a matter of coaching and preparation. I can't shake this gut feeling that Pete is okay with early season struggles (losses) and internally just wants to build toward the end of the season so the team is peaking for the playoffs. The Hawks look bad early on and I'm not sure it isn't by design.

 

[hoxrox]

Matty Brown literally had to delete a tweet last training camp because he had a screenshot of Hurtt’s call sheet that showed entirely new verbiage. All Fangio, no Pete.

This is interesting. I haven't heard about this. But why ask a rookie DC to implement a new scheme? That's dead on arrival from inception. If you're going to implement a new scheme, why not bring in someone more experienced? The plan was bound to fail. And we're running it back this year? Had high hopes but if game one is any indication, it's not looking too promising.

 

[Yxes1122]

This is interesting. I haven't heard about this. But why ask a rookie DC to implement a new scheme? That's dead on arrival from inception. If you're going to implement a new scheme, why not bring in someone more experienced? The plan was bound to fail. And we're running it back this year? Had high hopes but if game one is any indication, it's not looking too promising.

I mean, Sean Desai was Assistant HC last year and was a highly sought after DC.

But I think you’re poking at the exact point of discussion. Was Clint Hurtt too inexperienced? I think that is absolutely a conversation that’s fair and should be had.

My point in the above is that let’s frame this conversation appropriately. This isn’t Pete playing puppet master and holding power. If anything, this is Pete being too hands off with Desai/Hurtt/Scott who are all young (albeit up-and-coming with Scott/Desai) coaches.

 

[TwistedHusky]

It blows my mind we didn't seek Quinn as soon as he was fired as a HC.
But that ship has sailed.

This likely has little to do with young coordinators. We keep changing people but the problem remains. Changing players doesn't fix it either (see the other thread on this).
It is probably more the plan than the people. Pete has certain priorities on defense. Those priorities seem to have little to do with being an effective defense, in some cases may run counter to it.
Delivering on those priorities makes it tougher to actually succeed at what a defense is expected to deliver. And not shockingly, we struggle.

The surprise is really that our pass defense was as effective as it was last year, considering the above.

But regardless, it should be clear by now that replacing the DC probably won't fix much, because while our DCs are not adequate or sometimes even capable, that isn't the root of the problem.
Even a decent or good DC likely couldn't produce here unless Pete allowed that DC autonomy and the ability to set his own priorities in building his defensive plans.

 

[hawker84]

Pete's the best HC that we've ever had, and I'll be eternally grateful to him for the best period of Seahawk football in franchise history.

It's a figure of speech, for crying out loud. It's as if you were to say that you busted your balls to do something and me asking you to provide proof of you smashing your testicles.

Disagree, holmgren was the best "coach" we've ever had.

Pete's not a coach he's a personnel guy and motivator. He can't scheme, he can't adjust in the game, he can't manage the clock, he can't manage timeouts or challenges properly, he can't keep his players in check. Every skill a successful coach needs to have. He can put on fun upbeat practices with djs and give a positive press conference after a loss though. So there's that... . Pete should've been gone 2 years after the 1 yard debacle.....

 

[RiverDog]

Disagree, holmgren was the best "coach" we've ever had.

Pete's not a coach he's a personnel guy and motivator. He can't scheme, he can't adjust in the game, he can't manage the clock, he can't manage timeouts or challenges properly, he can't keep his players in check. Every skill a successful coach needs to have. He can put on fun upbeat practices with djs and give a positive press conference after a loss though. So there's that... . Pete should've been gone 2 years after the 1 yard debacle.....

Holmgren couldn't manage the clock, either. He had his nose buried so deep into that Denny's menu that he didn't have a clue as to what else was going on around him. He was also a control freak and wasn't successful until after he was stripped of his GM duties. Don't get me wrong, I liked the Walrus, but there's no way he gets ranked ahead of Pete.

Being a "personnel guy and motivator" is every bit a part of the job description of an NFL head coach, and one could argue that it's the most important attribute. It's like any other managerial position. It's not required that you know every fine detail of the business (although it does help) so long as you know how to select and coach good people that do and know just how much autonomy to give them.

Having said that, I agree with you in that I do think that one of Pete's weaknesses is that he's not a very strong disciplinarian. That's one area where Holmgren's style was better than Pete's, and it showed up in things like penalties. Holmgren's teams were some of the least penalized, Pete's one of the most flagged. You didn't want to come to the sidelines after you got called for a holding penalty on the Walrus's team.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It blows my mind we didn't seek Quinn as soon as he was fired as a HC.
But that ship has sailed.

How do you know we didn't reach out to Quinn?

Maybe he thought the better place to go was Dallas, and not return to Seattle and play under Pete where he wouldn't have as much autonomy as he does in Dallas.

Fans sometimes think it's just as easy as hiring or in this case, rehiring coordinators and coaches. But it takes two, and my guess is Quinn saw a better opportunity in Dallas......and he was right, he's been a part of creating and developing one of the best young defenses in the league.