Converting DL to OL in 2016, a shift in philoshophy?

[kearly]

Sokoli, Pericak, and Schwenke are still on the roster. I don't think the conversion system is finished yet.

I don't think it's totally over either, but I think it is pretty telling that there are ZERO new DT to OL experiments this year after doing so many of them in recent years.

I think they will keep Sokoli for a year or two given that his athleticism is off the charts. As geekhawk says, it makes decent sense to develop just one guy, and Sokoli is as good a physical specimen as can be had. Pericak and Schwenke are probably just camp bodies. I just hope Tom Cable doesn't make one of them his next Mike Person / Drew Nowak mancrush.

Also of note, Hunt, it turns out, is a former Defensive Line player.......

It's very common for that kind of switch coming out of HS, and many high school OL play both. Hunt was at OL for four years at TCU. Hunt has got his "10,000 hours" put in by now (btw, great post cdallan).

 

[kearly]

IIfedi is going to be a Tackle, but they've come out and said they need to put a guy inside for a year, then push him outside.

When did they say that? Carroll said Ifedi is going to start out at right guard with Webb at right tackle and see how that goes, but he was talking about prior to the season, not the entire year. They'll do their regular shuffle to see who's best where, and Ifedi could very well end up at right guard for the season, but they aren't making that decision now.

To your point, a lot can change very quickly when dealing with a new OL. This time last year, Lewis was the starting center, Britt was the starting RT, and Bailey was the starting LG. After just one preseason game, all of that changed.

I agree Cable is an elite coach, he's just been given too many sow's ears to convert to the proverbial
silk purse.

I feel the same as Atradees on Cable. He is a great teacher but flawed in evaluation. I think this is why he does better with veterans, as the longer a player lasts in the NFL, the more their abilities and limitations are plain to see.

 

[Hawks46]

IIfedi is going to be a Tackle, but they've come out and said they need to put a guy inside for a year, then push him outside.

When did they say that? Carroll said Ifedi is going to start out at right guard with Webb at right tackle and see how that goes, but he was talking about prior to the season, not the entire year. They'll do their regular shuffle to see who's best where, and Ifedi could very well end up at right guard for the season, but they aren't making that decision now.

I'm goiing to paraphrase, but I read an article either on .com or on fieldgulls (I can't remember, lots of content lately), but both Schneider and Cable were quoted as saying they're going back to the "right way" of breaking a rookie Tackle in, which is sliding him to the inside for his first year. I say "right way" in quotes because that was a direct quote of part of that statement.

It makes sense. They over drafted Britt a bit because he was athletic, then put him on the outside when they knew he was a bit raw. Then they slid him inside to Guard, which he hadn't played before. I think they can sense the mistake there.

 

[kearly]

I'm goiing to paraphrase, but I read an article either on .com or on fieldgulls (I can't remember, lots of content lately), but both Schneider and Cable were quoted as saying they're going back to the "right way" of breaking a rookie Tackle in, which is sliding him to the inside for his first year. I say "right way" in quotes because that was a direct quote of part of that statement.

It makes sense. They over drafted Britt a bit because he was athletic, then put him on the outside when they knew he was a bit raw. Then they slid him inside to Guard, which he hadn't played before. I think they can sense the mistake there.

The Dolphins are even doing it for Laremy Tunsil.

It's an approach that makes a lot of sense for Ifedi, especially since Ifedi already has RG experience in college.

You sometimes see the same idea for centers too. Max Unger started at guard for a year before moving to center.

 

[BlueTalon]

IIfedi is going to be a Tackle, but they've come out and said they need to put a guy inside for a year, then push him outside.

When did they say that? Carroll said Ifedi is going to start out at right guard with Webb at right tackle and see how that goes, but he was talking about prior to the season, not the entire year. They'll do their regular shuffle to see who's best where, and Ifedi could very well end up at right guard for the season, but they aren't making that decision now.

I'm goiing to paraphrase, but I read an article either on .com or on fieldgulls (I can't remember, lots of content lately), but both Schneider and Cable were quoted as saying they're going back to the "right way" of breaking a rookie Tackle in, which is sliding him to the inside for his first year. I say "right way" in quotes because that was a direct quote of part of that statement.

It makes sense. They over drafted Britt a bit because he was athletic, then put him on the outside when they knew he was a bit raw. Then they slid him inside to Guard, which he hadn't played before. I think they can sense the mistake there.

Oh, I'm not opposed to the idea at all. I just got the sense from everything I heard that the intent was to use Ifedi at guard and Webb at tackle as a starting point for evaluation, not necessarily as a plan for the season. In inteviews, Pete seemed to deliberately avoid making any kind of declarative statement about who will play where, at least on the right side.

 

[Seafan]

Hawks are still in the conversion program. Converting college spread OLs to Pro OLs is a project.

 

[Tical21]

I got to thinking today. Say you've got ten random defensive tackles. How would you decide which ones are optimal for a conversion to offense?

 

[kearly]

The interesting thing about this last draft is that the number of DL prospects who matched Seattle's 9 foot broad jump requirement was three times greater than the number of OL prospects who did. This year was an especially barren draft for athletic OL. So if there was ever a year to load up on athletic DL to convert them to OL, it was 2016.

 

[ivotuk]

Remember in 2015 when Tom Cable said "This is the best line yet!"



By the way, the German version of "Tom Cable" is Tom De Bacle.

 

[Tical21]

The interesting thing about this last draft is that the number of DL prospects who matched Seattle's 9 foot broad jump requirement was three times greater than the number of OL prospects who did. This year was an especially barren draft for athletic OL. So if there was ever a year to load up on athletic DL to convert them to OL, it was 2016.

I'm a bit lazy to look this up. Would Sweezy and Nowak fit that athletic profile? The only article I could find on Nowak had him at a broad jump at 7'11".

I'm wondering...Pete has a ridiculous memory in terms of guys that he watched play and/or recruited in high school. I wonder if he remembered that some of these guys were good high school offensive linemen. I know that these guys didn't play O-line in college, and I'm not understating the technique one would learn in college, but these guys probably played O-Line since they were little kids.

What started me down this path was wondering if maybe there just weren't any DL prospects this year that they thought would make good O-lineman, so they didn't draft any. That's what got me to thinking "geez, I wonder how they would decide which D-lineman would be good offensive projects." I mean, how do you look at a guy like Drew Nowak and say "you know what, I bet he would make a heckuva center." Same with Sweezy in general, although he does fit the athletic profile. But wouldn't dozens of guys fit that profile?

Also, I wonder what metrics they look at in, for instance, a DT, compared to what they look for in an offensive one.

 

[kearly]

I'm a bit lazy to look this up. Would Sweezy and Nowak fit that athletic profile? The only article I could find on Nowak had him at a broad jump at 7'11".

Yeah Sweezy did. He was one of the top athletes that year. Every OL pick from 2011-2015 had a 9' broad jump with the exception of Moffitt, who I suspect is the reason for the standard in the first place.

NFL teams are weird. They place very specific, semi-arbitrary requirements on draftable players, but often toss those requirements out the window when signing free agents. Most of the free agent OL the Seahawks have signed, including Nowak, did not have 9' broad jumps.

What started me down this path was wondering if maybe there just weren't any DL prospects this year that they thought would make good O-lineman, so they didn't draft any. That's what got me to thinking "geez, I wonder how they would decide which D-lineman would be good offensive projects." I mean, how do you look at a guy like Drew Nowak and say "you know what, I bet he would make a heckuva center." Same with Sweezy in general, although he does fit the athletic profile. But wouldn't dozens of guys fit that profile?

Also, I wonder what metrics they look at in, for instance, a DT, compared to what they look for in an offensive one.

Cable's mentor, Alex Gibbs, bragged that he could make a garbage man into an NFL O-lineman. A lot of the guys Cable brought in to develop on the OL had about as much OL experience as a garbage man would have. I'm guessing Tom Cable believes he can turn anyone with the necessary tools and motivation into a player.

Cable always works these players out before Seattle signs them. It's theoretically possible that he just didn't like any DTs this year, but I think that's unlikely especially given the remarkable gap in athleticism between OL and DL in the this draft.

Also, I wonder what metrics they look at in, for instance, a DT, compared to what they look for in an offensive one.

Cable has said he looks at Bench, Broad Jump, and Vertical jump. He even gave his ideal numbers on all three during an interview once, 27 reps, 9', 30". Something like that.

Cable also talks a lot about his lineman needing to be tough. Given flameouts like Moffitt and Bailey, I'm guessing that being coachable ranks up there for Cable as well. I've also noticed that most of the OL Cable has had here have generally been smart and well spoken. Ifedi isn't just a monster athlete, he already has his degree in Construction Engineering.

 

[kearly]

I think i know what you are getting at Tical, and I think it helps explain why Seattle took the approach they did this year. While it's true that even college OL coming out of the spread have to be rebuilt from the ground up in the NFL, that doesn't mean that their college game tape is meaningless. Those years spent playing the position served as a vetting process and allowed natural talent to reveal itself.

I think the Hunt pick is a great example of this. He wasn't drafted because of his size or his traits, but because he was a natural born center. There is no way of knowing if a random athletic DT is a natural born center or not, but they know that Hunt is one because he's shown it.