Cracking the Seahawks Oline Code.

[McGruff]

His arms are 33, but his are 34. This is the new one that cracks me up. Have them stand arms wide and you can barely tell a difference.

eyeballs better than arm measurements.

Simple test. Put on a shirt that has arms that arm 1 inch too short. Makes a big difference, doesn't it? In football tha's the difference between getting a hand on a guy and getting a finger on him. It matters.

At this level your are dealing with a game where inches and tenths of a second matter.

 

[Smellyman]

His arms are 33, but his are 34. This is the new one that cracks me up. Have them stand arms wide and you can barely tell a difference.

eyeballs better than arm measurements.

Simple test. Put on a shirt that has arms that arm 1 inch too short. Makes a big difference, doesn't it? In football tha's the difference between getting a hand on a guy and getting a finger on him. It matters.

At this level your are dealing with a game where inches and tenths of a second matter.

or put 1 inch on tape measure

 

[McGruff]

His arms are 33, but his are 34. This is the new one that cracks me up. Have them stand arms wide and you can barely tell a difference.

eyeballs better than arm measurements.

Simple test. Put on a shirt that has arms that arm 1 inch too short. Makes a big difference, doesn't it? In football tha's the difference between getting a hand on a guy and getting a finger on him. It matters.

At this level your are dealing with a game where inches and tenths of a second matter.

or put 1 inch on tape measure

Tape measures are too abstract. An inch on anathletic human body in motion against another atheltic human body is the difference between a sack and a hurry, a tackle and a whiff.

Besides the two are not exclusive. Longer, bigger, faster athletes tend to look better on tape. Sure there are exceptions, but that's what they are . . . Exceptions.

Regardless, we as fans may or may not like the analytic part of the draft process, but it matters to teams, especially team like Seattle who have a proven and successful track record of paying attention to athletic measurables.

 

[AgentDib]

If OL is where we can get best value then it makes sense but we're not in a situation that would be improved by reaching for them.

Glowinski, Poole and Sokoli all basically red shirted last year, Gilliam and Britt are under contract for 2016 and Bailey/Lewis are RFAs. There's also a very good chance that we retain Sweezy as his perceived value to us is a lot higher than it will be to other teams.

I could see our first pick being a tackle if they like Decker/Conklin/Coleman as an immediate Okung replacement but would you feel good about any of those three starting for us on opening day as rookies?

 

[firebee]

If OL is where we can get best value then it makes sense but we're not in a situation that would be improved by reaching for them.

Glowinski, Poole and Sokoli all basically red shirted last year, Gilliam and Britt are under contract for 2016 and Bailey/Lewis are RFAs. There's also a very good chance that we retain Sweezy as his perceived value to us is a lot higher than it will be to other teams.

I could see our first pick being a tackle if they like Decker/Conklin/Coleman as an immediate Okung replacement but would you feel good about any of those three starting for us on opening day as rookies?

If we sign Sowell and draft Conklin or Coleman; I'd be comfortable with whoever won the job between Sowell and Conklin or Coleman. I also like the odds on one of them staying healthy all season more than the odds on Okung being healthy all season.

 

[titan3131]

I think McGoverns athleticism will outweigh the "reach" aspect.

I would feel comfortable with what ever they decide is the best combo of oline as long as they have a real competition.

 

[AgentDib]

If we sign Sowell and draft Conklin or Coleman; I'd be comfortable with whoever won the job between Sowell and Conklin or Coleman. I also like the odds on one of them staying healthy all season more than the odds on Okung being healthy all season.

I agree that Okung is a risk and I'd also be comfortable with Sowell getting a shot. It's just hard not to focus on our abysmal track record with OL rookies who see playing time. Given that we spent three draft picks on the OL last season that haven't had a chance to contribute yet I'm not sold on all the hubbub about multiple early OL picks this year.

I think McGoverns athleticism will outweigh the "reach" aspect.

I do like the Missouri angle you're bringing in and he looks like an exciting pick up. I'm just doubtful he is going to be the best value on the board and if it's close I don't think OG is our play early given the options we already have there.

 

[McGruff]

If we sign Sowell and draft Conklin or Coleman; I'd be comfortable with whoever won the job between Sowell and Conklin or Coleman. I also like the odds on one of them staying healthy all season more than the odds on Okung being healthy all season.

I agree that Okung is a risk and I'd also be comfortable with Sowell getting a shot. It's just hard not to focus on our abysmal track record with OL rookies who see playing time. Given that we spent three draft picks on the OL last season that haven't had a chance to contribute yet I'm not sold on all the hubbub about multiple early OL picks this year.

I think McGoverns athleticism will outweigh the "reach" aspect.

I do like the Missouri angle you're bringing in and he looks like an exciting pick up. I'm just doubtful he is going to be the best value on the board and if it's close I don't think OG is our play early given the options we already have there.

I'm not convinced McGovern is a Guard. He's got experience at RG, RT and played this season at LT. His profile and play look like a tackle to me.

 

[titan3131]

I think McGoverns athleticism will outweigh the "reach" aspect.

I do like the Missouri angle you're bringing in and he looks like an exciting pick up. I'm just doubtful he is going to be the best value on the board and if it's close I don't think OG is our play early given the options we already have there.[/quote]

The entire though is based around improving our communication on the line. if we had 3 players that had played together for 3+ years already that would be a huge leap.

Lets say we lose Okung.

New line of

Gilliam - Britt - Boehm - Glow - McGovern

I really think that there might be more to britt then we have seen and with the right surrounding and more coaching we could get the player that Cable says he is.

im on board with Guard or tackle for Connor, but I dont think we should lose okung but we might regardless.

 

[xgeoff]

Preliminary post-combine Seahawks-centric OL list. This is based on results in 4 categories that are historically of critical importance to Seattle at the position: Arm length, Bench Press, Vertical and 10 yard split. A 1.0 indicates perfect adherence to Seahawk ideals in all categories. A score of .5 indicates the player meets Seahawks minimums in all categories. Some data is incomplete because players chose not to test, so they were graded on known test results.

Conklin, Jack Michigan St. OT 1
Tunsil, Laremy Mississippi OT 1
Kelly, Ryan Alabama C 0.9
McGovern, Connor Missouri OG 0.9
Spriggs, Jason Indiana OT 0.9
Benenoch, Caleb UCLA OT 0.875
Brendel, Jake UCLA C 0.875
Shell, Brandon South Carolina OT 0.875
Theus, John Georgia OT 0.875
Ifedi, Germain Texas A&M OG 0.8
Johnstone, Tyler Oregon OT 0.8
Thuney, Joe N.C. State OG 0.8
Coleman, Shon Auburn OT 0.75
Ehinger, Parker Cincinnati OG 0.75
Haeg, Joe North Dakota St. OT 0.75
Seumalo, Isaac Oregon St. OG 0.75
Stanley, Ronnie Notre Dame OT 0.75
Vaitai, Halapoulivaati TCU OT 0.75
Dahl, Joe Washington St. OG 0.7
Decker, Taylor Ohio St. OT 0.7
Lewis, Alex Nebraska OT 0.7
Robertson, Dominique West Georgia OT 0.7
Westerman, Christian Arizona State OG 0.7
Garnett, Joshua Stanford OG 0.6
Glasgow, Graham Michigan C 0.6
Allen, Jack Michigan St. C 0.50
Beavers, Willie Western Michigan OT 0.5
Cheek, Joseph Texas A&M OG 0.5
Jackson, Domenick Alabama OG 0.5
Murphy, Kyle Stanford OT 0.5
Odhiambo, Rees Boise St. OG 0.5
Toner, Cole Harvard OT 0.5
Tuerk, Max USC C 0.5

I think this represents the players at the combine that Seattle would consider at some point throughout the draft. If they aren't on the list, I don't think they are on our board.

Look at tape of Germain Ifedi. He is garbage. Wasn't impressed with Taylor Decker's tape either. Cole Toner got absolutely worked over in the Senior Bowl. He is completely incapable of competing at the next level.

Graham Glasgow looked fantastic at the Senior Bowl. I thought he looked like the best OL in that game. He played both C and G in that game and, IMO, excelled at both.

 

[xgeoff]

I really hope the Seahawks don't look at Evan Boehm. He looked terrible in the Senior Bowl. There is a Center we could get much cheaper who has excellent game film. Have a look at Kyle Friend at Temple, especially the game against Penn St. Ignore some of the meaningless measurables like arm length and focus on the game play and this guy could be a bargain.

 

[McGruff]

I really hope the Seahawks don't look at Evan Boehm. He looked terrible in the Senior Bowl. There is a Center we could get much cheaper who has excellent game film. Have a look at Kyle Friend at Temple, especially the game against Penn St. Ignore some of the meaningless measurables like arm length and focus on the game play and this guy could be a bargain.

There are two ways to approach evaluating draft prospects.

Scout them the way you would.

Scout them the way the team you follow would.

I prefer the second way personally. I want to try to zero in on who Seattle might be looking at. And generally speaking, Seattle looks at guys with certain athletic profiles based on position. You might not agree, and that is fine. But don't get your hopes up that Seattle will pick the guys you like if the guys you like don't fit their profile.

Evan Boehm will not be on Seattle's radar. Arms are too short, even for a center, and his 10 yard split was abysmal.

 

[McGruff]

Preliminary post-combine Seahawks-centric OL list. This is based on results in 4 categories that are historically of critical importance to Seattle at the position: Arm length, Bench Press, Vertical and 10 yard split. A 1.0 indicates perfect adherence to Seahawk ideals in all categories. A score of .5 indicates the player meets Seahawks minimums in all categories. Some data is incomplete because players chose not to test, so they were graded on known test results.

Conklin, Jack Michigan St. OT 1
Tunsil, Laremy Mississippi OT 1
Kelly, Ryan Alabama C 0.9
McGovern, Connor Missouri OG 0.9
Spriggs, Jason Indiana OT 0.9
Benenoch, Caleb UCLA OT 0.875
Brendel, Jake UCLA C 0.875
Shell, Brandon South Carolina OT 0.875
Theus, John Georgia OT 0.875
Ifedi, Germain Texas A&M OG 0.8
Johnstone, Tyler Oregon OT 0.8
Thuney, Joe N.C. State OG 0.8
Coleman, Shon Auburn OT 0.75
Ehinger, Parker Cincinnati OG 0.75
Haeg, Joe North Dakota St. OT 0.75
Seumalo, Isaac Oregon St. OG 0.75
Stanley, Ronnie Notre Dame OT 0.75
Vaitai, Halapoulivaati TCU OT 0.75
Dahl, Joe Washington St. OG 0.7
Decker, Taylor Ohio St. OT 0.7
Lewis, Alex Nebraska OT 0.7
Robertson, Dominique West Georgia OT 0.7
Westerman, Christian Arizona State OG 0.7
Garnett, Joshua Stanford OG 0.6
Glasgow, Graham Michigan C 0.6
Allen, Jack Michigan St. C 0.50
Beavers, Willie Western Michigan OT 0.5
Cheek, Joseph Texas A&M OG 0.5
Jackson, Domenick Alabama OG 0.5
Murphy, Kyle Stanford OT 0.5
Odhiambo, Rees Boise St. OG 0.5
Toner, Cole Harvard OT 0.5
Tuerk, Max USC C 0.5

I think this represents the players at the combine that Seattle would consider at some point throughout the draft. If they aren't on the list, I don't think they are on our board.

Look at tape of Germain Ifedi. He is garbage. Wasn't impressed with Taylor Decker's tape either. Cole Toner got absolutely worked over in the Senior Bowl. He is completely incapable of competing at the next level.

Graham Glasgow looked fantastic at the Senior Bowl. I thought he looked like the best OL in that game. He played both C and G in that game and, IMO, excelled at both.

I didn't think Ifedi was garbage at all. As a pass blocker he's good to great. Very quick out of his stance. Actually, ridiculously quick. Handles speed and power equally well. (edit) He also does a great job in tandem blocking, handing off and taking on stunts and executing combo blocks.

As a run blocker he is at best unproven. They just don't ask their tackles to fire off the ball, so its impossible to evaluate him there. (edit) Actually, I think he's better than advertised there too. He doesn't EVER play from a 3 point stance (few college tackles do these days) but he does exhibit good power in run blocking. he does seem to struggle at the 2nd level when blocking in space.

 

[xgeoff]

Preliminary post-combine Seahawks-centric OL list. This is based on results in 4 categories that are historically of critical importance to Seattle at the position: Arm length, Bench Press, Vertical and 10 yard split. A 1.0 indicates perfect adherence to Seahawk ideals in all categories. A score of .5 indicates the player meets Seahawks minimums in all categories. Some data is incomplete because players chose not to test, so they were graded on known test results.

Conklin, Jack Michigan St. OT 1
Tunsil, Laremy Mississippi OT 1
Kelly, Ryan Alabama C 0.9
McGovern, Connor Missouri OG 0.9
Spriggs, Jason Indiana OT 0.9
Benenoch, Caleb UCLA OT 0.875
Brendel, Jake UCLA C 0.875
Shell, Brandon South Carolina OT 0.875
Theus, John Georgia OT 0.875
Ifedi, Germain Texas A&M OG 0.8
Johnstone, Tyler Oregon OT 0.8
Thuney, Joe N.C. State OG 0.8
Coleman, Shon Auburn OT 0.75
Ehinger, Parker Cincinnati OG 0.75
Haeg, Joe North Dakota St. OT 0.75
Seumalo, Isaac Oregon St. OG 0.75
Stanley, Ronnie Notre Dame OT 0.75
Vaitai, Halapoulivaati TCU OT 0.75
Dahl, Joe Washington St. OG 0.7
Decker, Taylor Ohio St. OT 0.7
Lewis, Alex Nebraska OT 0.7
Robertson, Dominique West Georgia OT 0.7
Westerman, Christian Arizona State OG 0.7
Garnett, Joshua Stanford OG 0.6
Glasgow, Graham Michigan C 0.6
Allen, Jack Michigan St. C 0.50
Beavers, Willie Western Michigan OT 0.5
Cheek, Joseph Texas A&M OG 0.5
Jackson, Domenick Alabama OG 0.5
Murphy, Kyle Stanford OT 0.5
Odhiambo, Rees Boise St. OG 0.5
Toner, Cole Harvard OT 0.5
Tuerk, Max USC C 0.5

I think this represents the players at the combine that Seattle would consider at some point throughout the draft. If they aren't on the list, I don't think they are on our board.

Look at tape of Germain Ifedi. He is garbage. Wasn't impressed with Taylor Decker's tape either. Cole Toner got absolutely worked over in the Senior Bowl. He is completely incapable of competing at the next level.

Graham Glasgow looked fantastic at the Senior Bowl. I thought he looked like the best OL in that game. He played both C and G in that game and, IMO, excelled at both.

I didn't think Ifedi was garbage at all. As a pass blocker he's good to great. Very quick out of his stance. Actually, ridiculously quick. Handles speed and power equally well. (edit) He also does a great job in tandem blocking, handing off and taking on stunts and executing combo blocks.

As a run blocker he is at best unproven. They just don't ask their tackles to fire off the ball, so its impossible to evaluate him there. (edit) Actually, I think he's better than advertised there too. He doesn't EVER play from a 3 point stance (few college tackles do these days) but he does exhibit good power in run blocking. he does seem to struggle at the 2nd level when blocking in space.

After looking at Ifedi's physical size and reading the scout's report, I was thinking he might be a good pick. Then I watched this tape of him against Ole Miss:

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/germain ... miss-2015/

Nothing special, and many plays where he just isn't good. Compare this to the game tape of Arkansas against some of the SEC opponents like Ole Miss. The Arkansas OLinemen in this draft look far superior. After watching Ifedi's tape and tape of the Arkansas linemen like Denver Kirkland, I'm backing Kirkland and saying stay far, far away from Ifedi.

 

[McGruff]

Prepare to be disappointed. Seattle isn't coming anywhere near Kirkland.

Just got done watching Ifedi vs. Alabama and he was quite good. Not perfect. None are. But he was quite good against an elite defense.

On Ole Miss I disagree. There were a couple of bad stunt handoffs where the RG didn't pass his guy on to Ifedi like he needed to. There were a couple off bad run blocks, but they were largely away from the play. That's where he seems to struggle the most. Otherwise I thought he played well.

FTR, I love watching Ole Miss pplay defense. Nkemdiche is just a beast, but I keep coming back to Safety Trae Elston. he just jumps off the film to me.

 

[Ozzy]

McGruff you're an underrated poster on the forum. I enjoy your knowledge. Just wanted to throw that out there.

 

[AgentDib]

The Sokoli experiment should demonstrate we emphasize arm length at center. If we just liked his explosiveness we would have started him at guard with a much shallower learning curve. His arm length explains the attempt to teach him center responsibilities at the same time.

Lets say we lose Okung. New line of: Gilliam - Britt - Boehm - Glow - McGovern

My concern about LT would only be amplified like this and then we'd be starting three linemen with no NFL snaps. We're looking at the same sort of growing pains again and it feels to me like the rest of our team is too good to be looking at a rebuild project. I feel like the team should be looking at raising the floor here rather than the ceiling.

 

[xgeoff]

If we get Boehm, we will get our asses kicked. Watch the Senior Bowl tape of this kid. Did not hold up well against competition. And Britt... well... Britt... hmmmm... does anyone outside of the Seahawks Coaching Staff still think this kid is any good? From what I have observed, he simply can not pass block, and I often see him whiff on run blocks. I just think he is a bust.

 

[firebee]

Preliminary post-combine Seahawks-centric OL list. This is based on results in 4 categories that are historically of critical importance to Seattle at the position: Arm length, Bench Press, Vertical and 10 yard split. A 1.0 indicates perfect adherence to Seahawk ideals in all categories. A score of .5 indicates the player meets Seahawks minimums in all categories. Some data is incomplete because players chose not to test, so they were graded on known test results.

Conklin, Jack Michigan St. OT 1
Tunsil, Laremy Mississippi OT 1
Kelly, Ryan Alabama C 0.9
McGovern, Connor Missouri OG 0.9
Spriggs, Jason Indiana OT 0.9
Benenoch, Caleb UCLA OT 0.875
Brendel, Jake UCLA C 0.875
Shell, Brandon South Carolina OT 0.875
Theus, John Georgia OT 0.875
Ifedi, Germain Texas A&M OG 0.8
Johnstone, Tyler Oregon OT 0.8
Thuney, Joe N.C. State OG 0.8
Coleman, Shon Auburn OT 0.75
Ehinger, Parker Cincinnati OG 0.75
Haeg, Joe North Dakota St. OT 0.75
Seumalo, Isaac Oregon St. OG 0.75
Stanley, Ronnie Notre Dame OT 0.75
Vaitai, Halapoulivaati TCU OT 0.75
Dahl, Joe Washington St. OG 0.7
Decker, Taylor Ohio St. OT 0.7
Lewis, Alex Nebraska OT 0.7
Robertson, Dominique West Georgia OT 0.7
Westerman, Christian Arizona State OG 0.7
Garnett, Joshua Stanford OG 0.6
Glasgow, Graham Michigan C 0.6
Allen, Jack Michigan St. C 0.50
Beavers, Willie Western Michigan OT 0.5
Cheek, Joseph Texas A&M OG 0.5
Jackson, Domenick Alabama OG 0.5
Murphy, Kyle Stanford OT 0.5
Odhiambo, Rees Boise St. OG 0.5
Toner, Cole Harvard OT 0.5
Tuerk, Max USC C 0.5

I think this represents the players at the combine that Seattle would consider at some point throughout the draft. If they aren't on the list, I don't think they are on our board.

Look at tape of Germain Ifedi. He is garbage. Wasn't impressed with Taylor Decker's tape either. Cole Toner got absolutely worked over in the Senior Bowl. He is completely incapable of competing at the next level.

Graham Glasgow looked fantastic at the Senior Bowl. I thought he looked like the best OL in that game. He played both C and G in that game and, IMO, excelled at both.

I didn't think Ifedi was garbage at all. As a pass blocker he's good to great. Very quick out of his stance. Actually, ridiculously quick. Handles speed and power equally well. (edit) He also does a great job in tandem blocking, handing off and taking on stunts and executing combo blocks.

As a run blocker he is at best unproven. They just don't ask their tackles to fire off the ball, so its impossible to evaluate him there. (edit) Actually, I think he's better than advertised there too. He doesn't EVER play from a 3 point stance (few college tackles do these days) but he does exhibit good power in run blocking. he does seem to struggle at the 2nd level when blocking in space.

After looking at Ifedi's physical size and reading the scout's report, I was thinking he might be a good pick. Then I watched this tape of him against Ole Miss:

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/germain ... miss-2015/

Nothing special, and many plays where he just isn't good. Compare this to the game tape of Arkansas against some of the SEC opponents like Ole Miss. The Arkansas OLinemen in this draft look far superior. After watching Ifedi's tape and tape of the Arkansas linemen like Denver Kirkland, I'm backing Kirkland and saying stay far, far away from Ifedi.

I have to agree with you on Ifedi... Based on what I've seen, he's quick and has good footwork, but he doesn't use his hands or deliver a punch at all. He sits back and waits for the pass rusher to attack, instead of attacking the pass rusher and jolting them off the snap. He lets pass rushers get into him and get leverage. He doesn't effectively block at the 2nd level or in the open field due to his lazy handwork. He gets out where he can make a block, but he's slow with his hands and doesn't get them on the defenders. which often has him out in space looking lost while defenders run around him because he's slow to get his hands on the defenders. I haven't been a fan of Ifedi. The only thing he has going for him is a quick step, good footwork and size... That's about it.

 

[firebee]

Prepare to be disappointed. Seattle isn't coming anywhere near Kirkland.

Just got done watching Ifedi vs. Alabama and he was quite good. Not perfect. None are. But he was quite good against an elite defense.

On Ole Miss I disagree. There were a couple of bad stunt handoffs where the RG didn't pass his guy on to Ifedi like he needed to. There were a couple off bad run blocks, but they were largely away from the play. That's where he seems to struggle the most. Otherwise I thought he played well.

FTR, I love watching Ole Miss pplay defense. Nkemdiche is just a beast, but I keep coming back to Safety Trae Elston. he just jumps off the film to me.

Trae Elston reminds me a lot of of Richard Sherman in the way he plays. I'm kind of hoping we snag him on the 3rd day. He looks like he'd be a great DB project that could play CB or fill in as a coverage safety.